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Bible Study
See other Bible Study Articles

Title: The Reliability of the Bible (Proof-Positive Provided?)
Source: YT
URL Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAH_-Du2428
Published: Jun 5, 2019
Author: GENESIS APOLOGETICS
Post Date: 2019-06-10 11:25:47 by Liberator
Keywords: BIBLE, GOD
Views: 307
Comments: 25

Is the Bible reliable?

Does it include prophecies about Jesus Christ that have come true? Has it been reliably copied over the centuries?

Is the Bible inerrant?

The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls help answer these questions!


Poster Comment:

Sequential, repeated evidence is provided for over two millennia of the very same prophecies and information.

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#1. To: Liberator (#0)

Seems the premise is that the prophecies were fulfilled via the tenants of Christian theology. That would, to an extent, make them self-fulfilling prophecies.

I.e. if Isaiah had not written about a man being whipped four our iniquities, would the belief that the whipping Jesus received was because of our iniquities be part of Christian theology today?

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-06-10   12:14:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Pinguinite (#1)

Seems the premise is that the prophecies were fulfilled via the tenants of Christian theology. That would, to an extent, make them self-fulfilling prophecies.

A "premise" is a theory; This video demonstrated a lineage and repeatable documentation and proof of fulfilled prophecy. Proof simply does not get any more valid and credible than 2700 years of documentation.

Btw, "Christianity" did not exist in the days of Isaiah. Jesus Christ would not appear for hundreds of years. Isaiah 53 speak to it.

(did you watch the video?)

Liberator  posted on  2019-06-10   12:26:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Pinguinite (#1)

I.e. if Isaiah had not written about a man being whipped four our iniquities, would the belief that the whipping Jesus received was because of our iniquities be part of Christian theology today?

But...Isaiah DID write and prophecy of it.

Liberator  posted on  2019-06-10   12:28:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Liberator (#2)

Yes, I did, and I don't find it very compelling for the reason I gave.

It seems you missed my point about Isaiah being a "self-fulfilling" prophecy. To put the question another way: Is there any source in the Bible that claims that Jesus was whipped for our iniquities that cannot be traced back to Isaiah? I imagine Paul wrote of it in one of his letters that is now in the Bible but if so and he was referring back to Isaiah, then that would not count as Paul could be said to be retrofitting the prophecy to create a new piece of Christian doctrine. In which case, it is not fulfilled prophecy at all.

Prophecies about historic events are one thing. But prophecies that find their fulfillment in the form of developed Christian doctrine are quite another and can easily be the *direct* result of the prophecy itself rather than something that came to pass independently.

The speaker at the end argues that a skeptic is choosing to rely on his own judgment about the Bible instead of the Bible's judgment about the Bible. But anyone who chooses to believe the Bible is still relying on his own judgment that the Bible is the WoG, is he not?

It is not possible for any man to disable his own sense of judgment in what he believes, whether Christian or not, or whether he believes the Bible is the WoG or not.

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-06-10   12:58:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Pinguinite (#4)

It seems you missed my point about Isaiah being a "self-fulfilling" prophecy.

No I didn't.

You seem to want to either to dismiss Isaiah's prophecies outright, or claim that Jesus' life and death and circumstances were somehow scripted in the most grand conspiracy of all in order to magically create "self-fulfilling" prophecy. This is the Stretch-of-Stretches.

Besides that, the extent of specificity of Isaiah's can't be denied.

Prophecies about historic events are one thing. But prophecies that find their fulfillment in the form of developed Christian doctrine are quite another and can easily be the *direct* result of the prophecy itself rather than something that came to pass independently.

That's such a stretch, bro.

Other prophets didn't know one another, living in different times -- yet they wrote independently.

Given the prophecies began as you describe, "developing Christian Doctrine," why shouldn't this phenomena from the various Prophets from Isaiah to Micah to Psalm to Genesis to Jeremiah also be considered divinely-directed, a tapestry of truth that wound up as White Robe of Jesus The Savior? If anything Isaiah and others not only help prove the Bible's prophecies are true, but who the Messiah was to be.

The collective weight of the thread of prophecies by the various prophets over centuries give no doubt as to its credibility or validity. IF you were to look up and examine "Old Testament Prophecies of Jesus" you'd be inundated by scriptural documentation.

Liberator  posted on  2019-06-10   13:35:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Pinguinite (#4) (Edited)

The speaker at the end argues that a skeptic is choosing to rely on his own judgment about the Bible instead of the Bible's judgment about the Bible. But anyone who chooses to believe the Bible is still relying on his own judgment that the Bible is the WoG, is he not?

The Bible also tells us the truth is written in our heart. If He dwells in us we know the Truth.

The Bible also warns of those who shall remain blinded of their own volition.

I have cited scripture, and would in these cases, but I'm not sure it would do any good :-(

Liberator  posted on  2019-06-10   13:38:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Liberator (#5)

You seem to want to either to dismiss Isaiah's prophecies outright, or claim that Jesus' life and death and circumstances were somehow scripted in the most grand conspiracy of all in order to magically create "self-fulfilling" prophecy. This is the Stretch-of-Stretches.

It's not true that I think the the life and death of one man may have been scripted to fit prophecies. Rather, I suggest that prophecies may have been construed to fit the life and death of one man. I was taught that Jesus is indeed a historical person, as opposed as, say, Abraham who is not, I guess the difference being the existence of multiple historical records, beyond the Bible, of their existence. But I'm also very aware of the human propensity to creatively write stories to fit certain narratives, which is something you are certainly all too aware of to, so long as the stories come from NASA or CNN or any number of sources that have political bias.

But for whatever reason, for you, the Bible is immune to such bias. For me, it is not. If the Bible is the WoG, and not simply a collection of ancient writings, that has taken on a life of its own as each generation ascribes divine significance to it, then it just needs to pass other tests. And I guess one for me is the question of whether God gets angry and jealous. The Bible says yes, which I consider contradictory to the description of a supreme being who knows us completely and all things we will ever do. Anger and jealousy ARE, to me, a clear sign of weakness and insecurity and as such, are incompatible with the idea of a God being everything else the Bible says God is. The reason the Bible says God can feel these things: In my mind, the likelihood that the ancient authors needed this propensity of the Almighty for the purpose of controlling the masses. You simply cannot control the sheeple if they don't have this divine fear hanging over their heads their entire lives.

Prophecies about historic events are one thing. But prophecies that find their fulfillment in the form of developed Christian doctrine are quite another and can easily be the *direct* result of the prophecy itself rather than something that came to pass independently.

That's such a stretch, bro.

I do not see that at all. To you, the gospel is true. I do think you are starting with that premise, as it's firmly locked into your belief set, and working backwards from that point to find that the prophesies must be true. But what if Christianity today is the end result of ancient prophesy? Christian doctrine molded around a story that began with Genises and grew and, yes, evolved from there?

Other prophets didn't know one another, living in different times -- yet they wrote independently.

Agreed, they didn't know each other, but how many of the later authors were aware of the writings of the earlier authors enough to write their sequels in response to them? I don't know, but I don't think it can be ruled out. It's not like 3000 years ago there were libraries so full of books that any literate person would not have been able to read *all* of Judaic history in less than a few months time, it seems to me.

Given the prophecies began as you describe, "developing Christian Doctrine," why shouldn't this phenomena from the various Prophets from Isaiah to Micah to Psalm to Genesis to Jeremiah also be considered divinely-directed, a tapestry of truth that wound up as White Robe of Jesus The Savior? If anything Isaiah and others not only help prove the Bible's prophecies are true, but who the Messiah was to be.

None of the OT testament prophets ever used the name "Jesus". In fact, while Christian claim they were referring to Jesus, Jews themselves do not. They think it's someone else. What makes Christians right and Jews wrong? The OT books are their books, even. Why wouldn't they, therefore, be considered an authority on the matter?

The collective weight of the thread of prophecies by the various prophets over centuries give no doubt as to its credibility or validity. IF you were to look up and examine "Old Testament Prophecies of Jesus" you'd be inundated by scriptural documentation.

Much as I have already seen. But sources are quite biased.

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-06-10   15:52:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Liberator (#6)

The Bible also tells us the truth is written in our heart. If He dwells in us we know the Truth.

That much I agree with. We all know the truth, deep down.

The Bible also warns of those who shall remain blinded of their own volition.

I believe it is a virtue to be honest enough to question our own beliefs and seek truthful answers, and that what we believe not be swayed by fear of retribution either in this life or the next, whatever that may be, but instead be the result of reasoned and rational thought.

I have cited scripture, and would in these cases, but I'm not sure it would do any good :-(

It's likely it would not, just as the evidence I have provided you re: the Newton model would do no good and showing evidence the earth may be round would do no good. Would we say that being wrong about the shape of the earth would not be detrimental to one's eternal soul, but being wrong about theology is? Does it makes any sense at all that God would care about academic correctness on one subject and not another?

I would say that those who think He does grossly underestimate Him.

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-06-10   16:05:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Pinguinite (#7)

Anger and jealousy ARE, to me, a clear sign of weakness and insecurity and as such, are incompatible with the idea of a God being everything else the Bible says God is.

There's more to address regarding your comments, but for now your perception of the "anger and jealousy" of an Almighty seem to be a pretty sizable sticking point for you.

The context will be addressed....

Liberator  posted on  2019-06-10   16:11:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Pinguinite (#7)

Anger and jealousy ARE, to me, a clear sign of weakness and insecurity and as such, are incompatible with the idea of a God being everything else the Bible says God is.

There are such things as righteous anger and jealousy.

God "insecure"? "Weak"? If that's your conclusion, you're not understanding the context of who God is, and the reasons for His righteous anger and "jealousy." God doesn't need us at all. If we are insolent, disobedience and give him a middle finger, that only ultimately boomerangs back on us.

"Righteous anger," case, point:

You've painstakingly set up a beautiful, loving home and happy, purposeful future...

But your kid, your wife, somebody you love dearly instead of understanding how good things are back home and heeding your teachings and warnings on life, they go out and becomes very stupid, especially as they should know better. They begin hanging out with gangstas, whores, murderers, doing hard drugs, hurting others and themselves repeatedly. Then then they wind up stealing and lying to you about it and other things. Then, wind up in jail. It even appears they actually enjoy being stupid and wallowing in their own filth...

You mean to tell me you are saying you wouldn't become angry at them?

Sometimes the mediums of the messaging of the Bible make it difficult to understand. Or maybe it's a matter of impatience or a psychological or spiritual blockage that interfere with the resonance of truth. As I'd suggested, Scripture does address this phenomena.

I've found 'The Bible Project' medium and technique of its respective presentation of 'The Wisdom Books' unique in helping understanding and simplifying some Biblical tenets that have caused confusion. They are short and sweet. ('The Bible Project' starts at Genesis in case you or others like their work. It's excellent.)

As to your challenge of Biblical veracity and credibility, if the voluminous documentation and prophecies that defy the odds of its truth by a factor of a gazillion -- -- as well as of Jesus as the coming "King" and Redeemer its detailed explanation of all other places, events, and people are not sufficient "evidence" for you, then no other scripture I can cite nor nothing I can say will convince you otherwise.

Conversely, It seems to me you've bent over backwards to channel and accommodate Michael Newton's twist on Reincarnation. In doing so you've applied tons of thumb-pressure on the scales of proof for Newtonian Model "evidence" with flimsy, gamed, or phantom evidence, reinforced by mountains of speculation and wishful thinking; Yet you find it easy to dismiss and demand additional "validation" even as an actual mountain range of relative proof of Biblical truths and facts, multiple sources and multiple eyewitness real-person testimony and events exist -- as well as the thousands of years of historical back-up that has been translated and documented and re-documented. And... just maybe I am a bad communicator.

If one can't be their own eyewitness to beliefs and faith, they must rely on others. That mean your current "Faith" relies solely on the testimony of Michael Newton and his spiritual guidance and that of his fellow hypnotists for a clinical system and "Model" that bears far more likeness to a cold Classroom and "bulletin board grade" than the warm embrace and eternal grace of The Lord. Newton's assurance of his Model: The data and account of select Past Live Regression experiences as recounted and/or cobbled under an Altered State of Consciousness -- even though ALL of the experiences were aided and guided to the same end. Doesn't this merely prove what we already know? That the human mind CAN be manipulated and deceived by the Power of Suggestion (either by the Spirit World OR by Man?) Shouldn't relying on this system as the basis for one's Eternal Home be cause for alarm or at the least, utmost caution?

If the time-factor of Bible events remains the one sticking point for you, along with embracing the notion of a 1700 year-long Grand Prophecy Conspiracy, AND no available video of Isaiah's prophecies or Jesus' sermons of his Crucifixion and Return, maybe this exchange had a purpose afterall: To prompt you into re-examining respective "evidences."

Ping, I hope and pray you open your heart and embrace the real truth, my friend. I realize you've sought the truth and peace as a life goal. It is the most noble and important sojourn one can make. I've sincerely appreciated our exchange and tone, but now it's time to consider this subject closed. Thank you...

Liberator  posted on  2019-06-11   16:31:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Pinguinite (#8)

How Shall We Sing the Lord’s Song?

137 By the waters of Babylon,

there we sat down and wept,

when we remembered Zion.

2 On the willows1 there

we hung up our lyres.

3 For there our captors

required of us songs,

and our tormentors, mirth, saying,

“Sing us one of the songs of Zion!”

4 sHow shall we sing the Lord’s song

in a foreign land?

5 If I forget you, O Jerusalem,

tlet my right hand forget its skill!

6 Let my utongue stick to the roof of my mouth,

if I do not remember you,

if I do not set Jerusalem

above my highest joy!

7 Remember, O Lord, against the Edomites

wthe day of Jerusalem,

how they said, x“Lay it bare, lay it bare,

down to its foundations!”

8 O daughter of Babylon, ydoomed to be destroyed,

blessed shall he be who zrepays you

with what you have done to us!

9 Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones

and dashes them against the rock!

Get with the program, Pinguinite. Grab you an infant.

randge  posted on  2019-06-11   17:45:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Liberator (#10)

God "insecure"? "Weak"? If that's your conclusion, you're not understanding the context of who God is,

I didn't say he was weak and insecure. I said I don't think he can get angry or jealous because he is NOT either of those things.

"Righteous anger," case, point:

You gave an example of how I might get angry or jealous. How is my potential reaction, if with anger and/or jealousy, in any way a measure by how God would/could or should react? And you've not factored in the complete lack of surprise that would be the case with God. No, these are attributes that are ascribed to God in an effort to make him like us. That in addition to what I consider a likely motive of making people afraid for the purpose of control.

As to your challenge of Biblical veracity and credibility, if the voluminous documentation and prophecies that defy the odds of its truth by a factor of a gazillion -- -- as well as of Jesus as the coming "King" and Redeemer its detailed explanation of all other places, events, and people are not sufficient "evidence" for you, then no other scripture I can cite nor nothing I can say will convince you otherwise.

The last part of that is most certainly true.

Conversely, It seems to me you've bent over backwards to channel and accommodate Michael Newton's twist on Reincarnation.

In my view, I have hardly bent over backwards for Newton. I've not had to, as the information Newton presents makes, as far as I am concerned, sense in every way.

In doing so you've applied tons of thumb-pressure on the scales of proof for Newtonian Model "evidence" with flimsy, gamed, or phantom evidence, reinforced by mountains of speculation and wishful thinking; Yet you find it easy to dismiss and demand additional "validation" even as an actual mountain range of relative proof of Biblical truths and facts, multiple sources and multiple eyewitness real-person testimony and events exist -- as well as the thousands of years of historical back-up that has been translated and documented and re-documented. And... just maybe I am a bad communicator.

You choose to ignore accounts of reincarnation as I have repeatedly posted. That is evidence I can scrutinize. All you have as a book of ancient writings that pretty much cannot be cross examined. You've claimed in the past you have "witnesses". I'm sorry, you do not have any witnesses, unless they have been reincarnated, as a dead person cannot be a witness to anything.

If one can't be their own eyewitness to beliefs and faith, they must rely on others. That mean your current "Faith" relies solely on the testimony of Michael Newton and his spiritual guidance and that of his fellow hypnotists.

I also have myself. My own observations and experiences about how life is. I am certainly not accepting Newton's model based on pure academics.

Doesn't this merely prove what we already know? That the human mind CAN be manipulated and deceived by the Power of Suggestion (either by the Spirit World OR by Man?) Shouldn't relying on this system as the basis for one's Eternal Home be cause for alarm or at the least, utmost caution?

I'm sorry to point this out, but coming from someone who believes the world is flat, which in my mind is so completely out of alignment with reality, the criticism about my believing Newton over the Bible is not something I can consider very credible. If we cannot even agree on the shape of the earth, there's no chance we'll iron out any differences on any theological topic.

Just because you've found explanations for observations of a flat earth model does NOT mean the earth is flat, and the same goes for explanations for things we read in the Bible. You've chosen the explanations for both that fit your world view, discounting contrary explanations. I've done the same.

Ping, I hope and pray you open your heart and embrace the real truth, my friend. I realize you've sought the truth and peace as a life goal. It is the most noble and important sojourn one can make. I've sincerely appreciated our exchange and tone, but now it's time to consider this subject closed. Thank you...

Everyone sees things different ways, which is one of the things that is okay under the Newton model. I can consider it closed as well. I'm kind of weary of discussing it, in fact.

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-06-11   19:11:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Liberator (#0)

Jesus vs. Mohammad in the street



Ron Paul - Lake Jackson Texas Values

Hondo68  posted on  2019-06-11   22:59:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: randge (#11)

137 By the waters of Babylon,

there we sat down and wept,

when we remembered Zion.

8 O daughter of Babylon, ydoomed to be destroyed,

blessed shall he be who zrepays you

with what you have done to us!

9 Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones

and dashes them against the rock!

Get with the program, Pinguinite. Grab you an infant.

Oh, look, randge opened a Bible! Hoping to find a passage to disprove God? You merely found the prayer of a traumatized people. The Jews were remembering that their own children had been dashed against the rocks by the Babylonians. Plot twist: it was God Who brought the Babylonians to inflict such punishment against Judah!

I think this passage is what you were looking for...the bloody, fierce wrath of Jesus Christ poured out on His enemies (humans being killed by Christ!)

Revelation 19:11-19
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Will you be one of those gathered together to make war against God? If you continue in disbelief, and if you survive long enough, you will in fact be gathered there...

watchman  posted on  2019-06-12   7:03:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Hondo68 (#13)

Good vid. Extraordinary. Really nice, ballsy job of witnessing by the Brutha and challenging the Koran.

If the Muzzie/Atheist/Talmudic supremacist crowd decided to lynch this street preacher then and there, the cops would have let it happen. (Especially a white guy.) The Muzzette would have. If eyes could kill she'd have lit him up Preacher Man then and there.

Liberator  posted on  2019-06-12   11:49:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: randge, Pinguinite (#11)

Get with the program, Pinguinite. Grab you an infant.

By citing Psalm 137, what point are you really trying to make?

Liberator  posted on  2019-06-12   12:01:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Pinguinite (#12)

You choose to ignore accounts of reincarnation as I have repeatedly posted. That is evidence I can scrutinize.

I didn't ignore or even discount Newton's and his peers' accounts of Reincarnation as they documented; I said I believed them. I merely attributed them to spiritual manipulation, deception, and rigging the results so that they dovetailed with Newton's beliefs and "Model." FWIW, there really wasn't much to scrutinize, given Newton's research is a Closed System and LBL theory "classroom" process is hazy and unspecific.

I'm sorry to point this out, but coming from someone who believes the world is flat, which in my mind is so completely out of alignment with reality, the criticism about my believing Newton over the Bible is not something I can consider very credible...

One issue has nothing necessarily to do with the other.

I have always seen nothing but a flat parallel horizon when looking at the open ocean -- I don't know what you see.

Again, there IS a difference between "critiquing" and "criticism." Critiques are usually based on logic, observation, and examination of evidence. To what extent one does so can be either shallow or deep.

Your critique of Flat Earth basically got bogged down on questions of solar and lunar positioning while discounting the other 95%+ proposed evidence.

ANY belief of an alleged "Reality" that has been a matter of mere repetition and mind-programming, the claim that our world is indeed a "ROUND" ball is not based on any personal observation or even proven "Science"; It is based on decades of presumptive consensus, indoctrination, voodoo science fake photos of "Outer Space" from one more lying, scheming govt agency -- NASA.

This claim from the same Voodoo "SCIENCE!" communitah/religious cult that has dogmatically taught "EVOLUTION", "GLOBAL WARMING", "EARTH = 4+ BILLION YEARS OLD", and 13.8 BILLION YEAR-OLD "BIG BANG!" created all things are all closed discussions, not subject to debate.

All that said, the disparity in detail of "Proof," validation, credibility, testimony, and documentation of the Newton Model as compared to that of God-Creator-Scripture Explanation Model is beyond vast. For one there's an "OWNERS MANUAL" included that explains a Beginning AND End. The Middle Chapters are meaty and specific, including multiple testimonies from actual historical figures in actual historical places and time periods. For the other, the "Owners' Manual" is missing most pages because its "Owner" is unknown. It lacks a Beginning and End -- as well as relying on many assumptions and the Believer to fill-in most missing pages.

Just because you've found explanations for observations of a flat earth model does NOT mean the earth is flat, and the same goes for explanations for things we read in the Bible. You've chosen the explanations for both that fit your world view, discounting contrary explanations. I've done the same.

I put forth evidence that our world is flat, not "proof." And once again, one subject need not be related to the other (although Genesis and other scripture *do* describe an Earth that is but a "circle" along with "corners" -- as well as describing a functional Sky of lighting.) I doubt very much that you've actually scrutinized the Biblical description and reinforcement of Earth/Space Creation and Purpose. It's ok -- not even Believers do so.

Everyone sees things different ways, which is one of the things that is okay under the Newton model.

Sure, obviously. Everyone's perception of reality is diverse, and yes, that is okay. It's fine from a Free Will, mortal standpoint. But that depends on the stakes. Once consequences become a consideration, MANY belief systems become an eternal, irreversible, fatal liability.

Liberator  posted on  2019-06-12   13:04:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: watchman (#14)

I think this passage is what you were looking for...the bloody, fierce wrath of Jesus Christ poured out on His enemies (humans being killed by Christ!)

Revelation 19:11-19

Amen!

Liberator  posted on  2019-06-12   13:05:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Liberator (#16)

Pardon the flippant post.

With respect and without putting too fine a point on it, after having recently read the OT all the way through (and having reread the NT) I find that it's not possible for me to generate much reverence for the Canaanite deity represented in those pages with regard to common morality or a general sense of righteousness. In many ways to my mind, the Old Testament suffers from a major defect similar to that found in the Quran (which BTW is an infinitely inferior text rhetorically, poetically and philosophically to the OT). I have read that book also in parts and I find much of it repellent in the extreme.

Nevertheless, the religious books of the Judaic religion have much to commend themselves, and its authors display a deep understanding of human nature in many places. It is also the predecessor to the New Testament faith which has a whole lot to recommend it and which has been tamed over time. The Romans employed it as a civil religion that produced a reliable citizenry and when necessary a reliable soldiery. So far, so good. Over the centuries, it has been bridled and habituated to accommodate a range of beliefs, interpretations and actions. We are no longer burned to a crisp on a stake for example for translating or criticizing Scripture.

Some of the finest people I know are confessed Christians, but the Old Books in great part, I cannot swallow them.

randge  posted on  2019-06-12   15:20:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Liberator (#17)

Your critique of Flat Earth basically got bogged down on questions of solar and lunar positioning while discounting the other 95%+ proposed evidence.

*Every* argument put forth that the earth is flat which I have considered I have found to be insubstantial for one reason or another.

The claim that our world is indeed a "ROUND" ball is not based on any personal observation or even proven "Science"; It is based on decades of presumptive consensus, indoctrination, voodoo science fake photos of "Outer Space" from one more lying, scheming govt agency -- NASA.

The ability to fly from Chile to NZ subsonically in 13 hours, is, all by itself, enough to sink flat earth. The earth is a globe. Period.

This claim from the same Voodoo "SCIENCE!" communitah/religious cult that has dogmatically taught "EVOLUTION", "GLOBAL WARMING", "EARTH = 4+ BILLION YEARS OLD", and 13.8 BILLION YEAR-OLD "BIG BANG!" created all things are all closed discussions, not subject to debate.

If I had to choose between believing the earth was 6000 or 4.5 billion years old, I'd certainly go with the higher figure. I see no reason to trust the musings of ancient ancestors about how the universe came to be, quite possibly devised even before the invention of written language much less the discovery of all else. Yes, let's trust these professional hunter-gatherers about everything they declare about the origin of earth and universe, shall we?

There are conspiracies in the world, but this is not one of them. There is no reason it would be.

Liberator, your advocacy of flat earth does prove one big theory I have, and that is that the power of the human mind to believe things that are not true is perhaps its most underrated ability -- BY FAR. It illustrates well why the vast majority of children are life-long believers in whatever faith their parents taught which is why religious faiths are not homogeneously mixed throughout the world. If there is one thing that should be to my own credit, its that I've been willing to question what my parents taught me about religion and in that respect, it seems I've been one exception to the rule. All the same, knowing the human mind has this capability does of course give me pause about what I believe, but at the same time, convinces me that God deciding the eternal fate of one's soul based on what the human mind believes is a fallacious doctrine. But nonetheless a necessary component all organized religious faiths must posess if they are to survive from one generation to the next.

My best to you.

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-06-12   16:37:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Pinguinite (#12)

You choose to ignore accounts of reincarnation as I have repeatedly posted. That is evidence I can scrutinize. All you have as a book of ancient writings that pretty much cannot be cross examined. You've claimed in the past you have "witnesses". I'm sorry, you do not have any witnesses, unless they have been reincarnated, as a dead person cannot be a witness to anything.

THere is no evidence of reincarnation. Zero zip nada. Just some loon scientologist hytnotizing people and suggesting bullshit.

Your statement here is well dumb.

THere was no George Washington and he was never President. You can't prove it. That is what you just stated as your "logic".

You're going kind of silly.

I don't think you ever answered what caused you to stop being a christiaN. Or maybe you never were and just called yourself one out of tradition.

A K A Stone  posted on  2019-06-13   6:43:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Pinguinite (#12)

I said I don't think he can get angry or jealous because he is NOT either of those things.

You wouldn't know. You are just a human with no knowledge. Just your imagination of what God would be if you constructed him. Your own custom God and custom religion.

Your religion seems kind of like the transgenders. I'm a man even though I have a vagina and I want it to be.

God isn't jealous because I said so and I know and I would know because I am a smart man.

See the similarities?

A K A Stone  posted on  2019-06-13   6:46:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Pinguinite (#7)

None of the OT testament prophets ever used the name "Jesus". In fact, while Christian claim they were referring to Jesus, Jews themselves do not. They think it's someone else. What makes Christians right and Jews wrong?

THe old Testament said the Jews would reject their Messiah.

That doesn't answer your question but who cares. It's for you to know.

A K A Stone  posted on  2019-06-13   6:48:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Pinguinite (#7) (Edited)

You made a comment abourt hunters and gatherers yesterday. I saw it on my phone and didn't respond because it wasn't convenient and easy.

That is a silly comment. Hunters and gatherers is a myth. Sure people hunted and gathered, but not in the context evolutionists put it in.

Anyhow hunters and gatherers wouldn't write books and build Solomons Temple.

I sincerely hope you find the truth. You're a good honorable person as far as I can tell.

A K A Stone  posted on  2019-06-13   6:54:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: A K A Stone (#21)

THere is no evidence of reincarnation. Zero zip nada.

What evidince exists is certainly shy of proof, but there absolutely IS evidence in support of reincarnation.

That is what you just stated as your "logic".

Well, at some point, logic is required.

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-06-13   15:18:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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