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Title: Are libertarian Republicans misreading the political climate?
Source: theweek.com
URL Source: https://theweek.com/articles/828943 ... s-misreading-political-climate
Published: Mar 17, 2019
Author: W. James Antle III
Post Date: 2019-03-17 20:36:54 by Gatlin
Keywords: None
Views: 516
Comments: 60

All it took was a noncommittal response to generate a little 2020 buzz. "I would never rule anything out," Rep. Justin Amash (R-Mich.) told CNN's Jake Tapper earlier this month when asked if he would run for president as a libertarian. "That's not on my radar right now, but I think that it is important that we have someone in there who is presenting a vision for America that is different from what these two parties are presenting." Far from a declaration of candidacy, this was not a Shermanesque statement, either. "Sounds like a platform," Tapper replied when Amash talked about the principles that unite Americans.

Despite President Trump's tax cuts, deregulation, and even criminal justice reform, it's generally been a frustrating time for libertarian Republicans like Amash. But if Democrats take the White House in 2020, Democratic overreach — and the backlash it triggers — will once again present libertarians with an opportunity to lead the GOP. Can they convince the party to follow?

Trump isn't a limited-government true believer, and organizations from the Tea Party (which helped elect Amash) to the House Freedom Caucus (to which Amash belongs) seem to be filled with people who are more interested in rallying behind the president than cutting the federal government down to its constitutional size. Entitlement reform is out; tariffs and trade wars are in. The discretionary spending cuts in Trump's budget are dead on arrival; the deficit — once again nearing $1 trillion, this time under the GOP and a growing economy — is very alive.

The Trump era has been especially frustrating for Amash. He's not drawn to nationalism or populism, much less partisan tribalism. He didn't like the appointment of Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court or either of Trump's attorneys general. He doesn't see Trump as having made much progress ending the country's wars.

"When some libertarians talk about the great accomplishments we're seeing on foreign policy, I don't know what they're talking about," Amash told The Washington Post last year. "Reaching out to these guys is one thing, but you have to move down the court. [Trump] actually made it harder for us to have a good relationship with Russia."

The Post story was about how Amash was "marooned" in Congress. A more recent piece on CNN's website called him "the loneliest Republican" in the legislative branch. Thus the speculation he'll leave to take a flier on the Libertarian Party nomination in 2020.

As gloomy as things now seem, another "libertarian moment" — the last one was just four or five years ago — could be on the horizon. Democrats no longer believe that the era of big government is over, as Bill Clinton professed. They increasingly want to expand Medicare to Americans under the age of 65, return to tax rates unseen since Ronald Reagan came to Washington, disrupt private health insurance more than ObamaCare did, and grow government in ways that imposes costs on middle-class voters as well as offer them benefits. And the Green New Deal will legitimately require trillions of dollars in new federal expenditures at a time when it is not clear how to responsibly keep the promises made by our existing welfare state.

If — when — the Democrats retake the White House, Republicans are sure to once again get tough on fiscal conservatism (even if their overall motivation is more complicated), as they did in 1994 and 2010. Deficits will matter. But the GOP's government-cutting zeal usually fizzles out by the presidential election. Sometimes the revival of Republican political fortunes has faded by that time, too. That's a problem for strong fiscal conservatives like Amash. Trying to avoid the same fate as the Tea Party, or Newt Gingrich's Congresses, is probably a more productive use of one's time than vying with John McAfee for Libertarian Party presidential bragging rights.

As a libertarian, Gary Johnson was a useful safety valve for voters who found their 2016 and 2020 presidential options unpalatable. But as a Republican, he was the two-term governor of New Mexico. As a libertarian, Ron Paul finished a very distant third in the 1988 race for the White House. As a Republican, he served 12 terms in Congress and even his losing presidential campaigns had much more influence.

Still, there are undeniable challenges. Republicans now depend on the votes of people collecting Social Security and Medicare, receiving farm subsidies, and benefiting from Pentagon spending. Even some veterans of the Ron Paul campaign are questioning whether limited government is adequate to address the country's problems. So rather than exhorting Republicans to be more principled and less partisan, libertarians and constitutional conservatives would perhaps do well to grapple with the shallowness of their political appeal.


Poster Comment:

Repeating for Empasis:
Even some veterans of the Ron Paul campaign are questioning whether limited government is adequate to address the country's problems. So rather than exhorting Republicans to be more principled and less partisan, libertarians and constitutional conservatives would perhaps do well to grapple with the shallowness of their political appeal.

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


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#1. To: Gatlin (#0)

Gatlin's statement of absurdity.

Even some veterans of the Ron Paul campaign are questioning whether limited government is adequate to address the country's problems.

Gatlin's absurd conclusion.

So rather than exhorting Republicans to be more principled and less partisan, libertarians and constitutional conservatives would perhaps do well to grapple with the shallowness of their political appeal.

Tater, you are an idiot.

buckeroo  posted on  2019-03-17   20:49:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: buckeroo (#1)

Gatlin's statement of absurdity.

Yep - it's pretty obvious Tater is on a drunken libertarian-bashing jihad again. This is the second long-winded screed he's posted.

Could be he caught one of his grand kids wearing a Ron Paul T-shirt.

libertarians and constitutional conservatives would perhaps do well to grapple with the shallowness of their political appeal.

Well lookie here - Tater's disdain is not just towards libertarians - he hates constitutional conservatives as well.

Tater, you are an idiot.

That's being generous.

Computer Hope

Government is in the last resort the employment of armed men, of policemen, gendarmes, soldiers, prison guards, and hangmen.
The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning.
Those who are asking for more government interference are asking ultimately for more compulsion and less freedom.

Deckard  posted on  2019-03-17   21:00:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: buckeroo (#1)

Gatlin's statement of absurdity.
Even some veterans of the Ron Paul campaign are questioning whether limited government is adequate to address the country's problems.
Ahem …

Those are not my words, I made no such statement. Those are the words of W. James Antle III – Editor of The American Conservative and author of Devouring Freedom: Can Big Government Ever Be Stopped?

Gatlin's absurd conclusion.
So rather than exhorting Republicans to be more principled and less partisan, libertarians and constitutional conservatives would perhaps do well to grapple with the shallowness of their political appeal.

That is not my conclusion, I made no such conclusion. That the conclusion of W. James Antle III – Editor of The American Conservative and author of Devouring Freedom: Can Big Government Ever Be Stopped?

Tater, you are an idiot.

To use of an offensive name directed towards me when you lack information of substance to rebut a thesis presented by the author as a attempt to induce rejection or condemnation without objective consideration and presentation of rebuttal facts is analytically and rhetorically disastrous while also showing a definite lack of knowledge.

Gatlin  posted on  2019-03-17   21:17:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Gatlin (#3)

Repeating for Empasis [sic]:

You are a fucking fool.

buckeroo  posted on  2019-03-17   21:20:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Gatlin, buckeroo (#3)

Nice attempt at obfuscation you disingenuous prick! When have you EVER posted an anti-libertarian article and NOT agreed with it?

Computer Hope

Government is in the last resort the employment of armed men, of policemen, gendarmes, soldiers, prison guards, and hangmen.
The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning.
Those who are asking for more government interference are asking ultimately for more compulsion and less freedom.

Deckard  posted on  2019-03-17   21:21:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Deckard (#5)

tater is slimy POS and offers nothing in value on LF. Why he is allowed to post is beyond me.

buckeroo  posted on  2019-03-17   21:35:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Deckard (#2)

Making an abusive remark on or relating to one's person instead of providing evidence when examining the author’s claims or comments shows you to be a person of “no substance.

If you had “substance” then you can identify your “libertarian foundation” in thought and feeling to defend it against any and all claims in the article. Furthermore, a person of “substance” not only knows what they think, believe and feel, they can also give reasons for why they think and feel as they do.

Since you are absent in discussing against an identifiable premise by the author– you are therefore a person to be thought of as someone simply floating upon the glimmering ocean of life with no anchor or definite purpose or any ability to tell others what is wrong in the article.

Deckard, you post is shallow and you have no substance. Ergo, your personal attack is noted as an admitted failure by you.

Now please respond to the article and stop your personal attack on me – Which again displays your lack of substance.

Gatlin  posted on  2019-03-17   21:39:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Gatlin, Deckard (#7)

Making an abusive remark on or relating to one's person instead of providing evidence when examining the author’s claims or comments shows you to be a person of “no substance.

Lets remind you about what you stated:

Repeating for Empasis [sic]: Even some veterans of the Ron Paul campaign are questioning whether limited government is adequate to address the country's problems. So rather than exhorting Republicans to be more principled and less partisan, libertarians and constitutional conservatives would perhaps do well to grapple with the shallowness of their political appeal.

Either you are an airhead or goddamed liar

buckeroo  posted on  2019-03-17   21:47:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Deckard (#5)

Nice attempt at obfuscation you disingenuous prick! When have you EVER posted an anti-libertarian article and NOT agreed with it?
I never said that I did or did not agree with it.

I simply stated the quotes that Bucky used were not mine.

The quotes were those words used by the author.

There was NO attempt at any obfuscation by me and neither was I being disingenuous in any way.

Had you had asked me DIRECLY if I agreed with the author instead of AGAIN making a presumptive conclusion I would have answered you.

Sonny boy, you need to stop using presumptive conclusions and start addressing things STRAIGHT on.

Now, Please address the article and cease attacking me because you have “no substance” …

Gatlin  posted on  2019-03-17   21:48:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: buckeroo (#8)

Lets remind you about what you stated …
… stated …

I did no “state” that – the author “stated” that.

I merely and clearly identified what the AUTHOR stated to make especially sure he was carefully understood.

Did you not understand him?

If you failed to understand any of this, then it is your problem …

Now, can you please address the article.

The article is about a stupid libertarian which you CANNOT defend and therefore you can only personally attack me.

Either you are an airhead or goddamed liar
I am neither – I am the person who recognizes that you have a problem with reading comprehension/

Now, please address and discuss the article …

Gatlin  posted on  2019-03-17   22:02:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Buckeroo, Deckard (#10)

"When some libertarians talk about the great accomplishments we're seeing on foreign policy, I don't know what they're talking about," Amash told The Washington Post last year.

Is Amash right – Do some libertarians not know what they’re talking about?

If yes, then why – If no, then why not?

Gatlin  posted on  2019-03-17   22:07:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Gatlin (#10)

You added your EMPHASIS about the author's article; your personal thoughts are contained in the article you posted.

You are a dumb fuck.

buckeroo  posted on  2019-03-17   22:10:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: buckero, Deckard (#12)

Despite President Trump's tax cuts, deregulation, and even criminal justice reform, it's generally been a frustrating time for libertarian Republicans like Amash.

Why would “President Trump's tax cuts, deregulation, and even criminal justice reform, [nr] generally […] a frustrating time for libertarian Republicans like Amash?

Come on, “you big libertarians” –Answer the one you call and “idiot” and dispute the statement that Libertarian Republicans are becoming frustrated, if they are.

And tell me, please, how does a frustrated “Libertarian Republican” feel?

Gatlin  posted on  2019-03-17   22:16:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: buckeroo, Deckard (#12)

The Trump era has been especially frustrating for Amash.
Do you feel the Trump era has been ESPECIALLY frustrating for a libertarian?

As a libertarian, have you been ESPECIALLY frustrated?

Come on, stop with the name calling and participate in discussing the article.

You too, Deckard – or have you “no substance” and given up?

Gatlin  posted on  2019-03-17   22:22:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Buckeroo, Deckard (#14)

Amash didn't like the appointment of Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court or either of Trump's attorneys general.
Did either of you “fine and outstanding libertarians” have a problem with those appointments like the libertarian in the House did?

Hey, where are you?

Let’s discuss the article….please.

Gatlin  posted on  2019-03-17   22:26:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Buckeroo, Deckard (#15)

As gloomy as things now seem, another "libertarian moment" — the last one was just four or five years ago — could be on the horizon.
… gasph …

Oh, no …

Do you two think another “libertarian moment” could be on the horizon.

By the way – how did the last “Ron Paul libertarian moment” work out for you?

Gatlin  posted on  2019-03-17   22:33:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Buckeroo, Deckard (#16)

What’s the matter?

You two don’t want to discuss the article.

You want to do as you always do – Which is to call names and hurl insults?

Like libertarians are notoriously noted for doing.

Shameful …

Gatlin  posted on  2019-03-17   22:33:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: buckeroo (#12)

… your personal thoughts are contained in the article you posted.
Nope. I was never quoted in the article I posted. The author did request an interview with me.

You are a dumb fuck.
Why do you continue to call me names?

Is this really all you have to contribute …

Gatlin  posted on  2019-03-17   22:41:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: buckeroo (#8)

Making an abusive remark on or relating to one's person instead of providing evidence when examining the author’s claims or comments

Tater and GrandIsland are two of the biggest and most prodigious practitioners of this tactic.

Then when someone fights back - Tater whines.

The stench of his hypocrisy is nauseating.

...shows you to be a person of “no substance.

He's also a master of Psychological projection, a defence mechanism in which the human ego defends itself against unconscious impulses or qualities by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.

For example, a person who is habitually rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude. It incorporates blame shifting.

Computer Hope

Government is in the last resort the employment of armed men, of policemen, gendarmes, soldiers, prison guards, and hangmen.
The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning.
Those who are asking for more government interference are asking ultimately for more compulsion and less freedom.

Deckard  posted on  2019-03-17   22:53:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Gatlin, *2020 The Likely Suspects* (#16)

Justin Amash 2020 !!!!!!!!!

He's ready to crush Donnell & Beto O'Rourke too.


Hondo68  posted on  2019-03-17   23:02:00 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Deckard (#19) (Edited)

Is this really all you have to contribute?

Discuss the ARTICLE, please ...

Why can't you?

Gatlin  posted on  2019-03-17   23:06:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Gatlin, buckeroo (#9)

There was NO attempt at any obfuscation by me and neither was I being disingenuous in any way.

You unscrupulous ass!

When have you EVER posted an anti-libertarian article and NOT agreed with it?

You're not fooling anyone with your your tiny-fisted tantrums you fraudulent cow.

The consensus here is that you are a pathetic, bleating sheep who deserves contempt and ridicule. Your egotistical self-aggrandizement and your lack of common courtesy and manners are simply disgusting.

Computer Hope

Government is in the last resort the employment of armed men, of policemen, gendarmes, soldiers, prison guards, and hangmen.
The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning.
Those who are asking for more government interference are asking ultimately for more compulsion and less freedom.

Deckard  posted on  2019-03-17   23:07:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Deckard (#22)

Is this really all you have to contribute?

Discuss the ARTICLE, please ...

Why can't you?

Gatlin  posted on  2019-03-17   23:08:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Deckard (#22)

The consensus here ...

I am not interested in a “consensus here” …

I am however interested in you discussing the article.

Why can’t you?

Gatlin  posted on  2019-03-17   23:11:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Deckard (#22)

You're not fooling anyone …
I am not trying to fool anyone.

I am trying to discuss this article.

Can you please stop the personal attacks and discuss the article with me?

Gatlin  posted on  2019-03-17   23:13:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Gatlin (#25)

I am trying to discuss this article.

Bullshit!

Computer Hope

Government is in the last resort the employment of armed men, of policemen, gendarmes, soldiers, prison guards, and hangmen.
The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning.
Those who are asking for more government interference are asking ultimately for more compulsion and less freedom.

Deckard  posted on  2019-03-17   23:14:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Deckard (#22)

… bleating sheep who deserves contempt and ridicule.
You have shown contempt and tried to ridicule me already.

Now can we please discuss the article about Amash and libertarianism?

Gatlin  posted on  2019-03-17   23:16:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Deckard (#26)

am trying to discuss this article.

Bullshit!

Test me….please….PLEASE.

You can go first, or shall I?

Let’s discuss the article.

You have shown that you can make repeated personal attacks on me.

Now show me how you can discuss this article …

Gatlin  posted on  2019-03-17   23:19:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Gatlin (#27) (Edited)

You have shown contempt and tried to ridicule me already.

And deservedly so.

What a snowflake - you can dish it out, but when someone responds in kind, you whine like a little bitch.

Computer Hope

Government is in the last resort the employment of armed men, of policemen, gendarmes, soldiers, prison guards, and hangmen.
The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning.
Those who are asking for more government interference are asking ultimately for more compulsion and less freedom.

Deckard  posted on  2019-03-17   23:20:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Deckard (#22)

When have you EVER posted an anti-libertarian article and NOT agreed with it?
Irrelevant and immaterial….Let’s discuss this article.

Gatlin  posted on  2019-03-17   23:23:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Deckard (#29)

Is this really all you have to contribute?

Discuss the ARTICLE, please ...

Why can't you?

Gatlin  posted on  2019-03-17   23:24:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Deckard (#29)

… when someone responds in kind …
Please KINDLY respond to the article.

I am challenging you to do so.

Why will you not?

Gatlin  posted on  2019-03-17   23:26:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Deckard (#29)

… you whine like a little bitch.
I am not whining now.

I am begging.

I am begging you to join me in discussing this artilc.

Please….Please….Please.

Gatlin  posted on  2019-03-17   23:28:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Gatlin (#31)

Boring article.

Boring discussion.

Buckeroo misrepresenting what you said vs quoted.

Buckeroo name calling

Deckard doing some name calling from at the beginning. Offering opinions on Gatlin throughout.

A K A Stone  posted on  2019-03-17   23:28:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: A K A Stone (#34)

Buckeroo misrepresenting what you said vs quoted.

Buckeroo name calling

Deckard doing some name calling from at the beginning. Offering opinions on Gatlin throughout.

Yes, I know.

Thank you for your post.

I am done here.

Gatlin  posted on  2019-03-17   23:31:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Gatlin (#35)

I have an interesting post coming up in 1 min

A K A Stone  posted on  2019-03-17   23:34:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: A K A Stone (#36)

I will wait ..

Gatlin  posted on  2019-03-17   23:36:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: A K A Stone (#34) (Edited)

Deckard doing some name calling from at the beginning.

He's posting another one of his tiresome anti-libertarian screeds and all I did was point that out to buckeroo. But what the heck - if you want to see him bash constitutional conservatives by agreeing with the author that they are "shallow' then that's your call.

Guess you neo-cons gotta stick together.

It's funny that you ignore Tater's perrsonal attacks on other threads - here he's pretending he wants a discussion when we all know his agenda.

Computer Hope

Government is in the last resort the employment of armed men, of policemen, gendarmes, soldiers, prison guards, and hangmen.
The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning.
Those who are asking for more government interference are asking ultimately for more compulsion and less freedom.

Deckard  posted on  2019-03-17   23:44:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Deckard (#38)

I had to come back after I see that you now attack Stone. Shame on you. There seems to be no end to your aggressive behavior. Angry forum posts are never a good idea.

You should know that more often than not “posting your mind” can be a terrible thing. A study has shown that messages containing different emotions and spread across forums reveal that “anger is most detrimental and emotions like joy are most influential. Which indicates often that angry begets anger and it can spread quickly and broadly in a forum. The consequences of such angry posts can be dire. People have publicly disgraced themselves with embarrassment. Beware.

You appear to have symptoms of the dreaded Libertarian Posting While Angry Syndrome [LPWAS] which is contagious to other libertarians and spreads quickly. Perhaps you should quarantine yourself for a lengthy period of time.

Gatlin  posted on  2019-03-18   1:06:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Gatlin (#39) (Edited)

I had to come back after I see that you now attack Stone.

I didn't attack Stone you pompous ass.

A study has shown...

Yeah sure - once again you attempt to baffle with bullshit.

Geesh - you really are full of yourself. People might like you more if you stopped your incessant, schoolmarm lecturing and talking down to others like you are king of the world.

You appear to have symptoms of the dreaded Libertarian Posting While Angry Syndrome [LPWAS] which is contagious to other libertarians and spreads quickly. Perhaps you should quarantine yourself for a lengthy period of time.

And once again your true agenda for posting this article comes shining through.

Computer Hope

Government is in the last resort the employment of armed men, of policemen, gendarmes, soldiers, prison guards, and hangmen.
The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning.
Those who are asking for more government interference are asking ultimately for more compulsion and less freedom.

Deckard  posted on  2019-03-18   5:54:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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