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Title: The Cops Were the Aggressors in This Week's Deadly Houston Drug Raid
Source: Reason
URL Source: https://reason.com/blog/2019/01/30/ ... ere-the-aggressors-in-this-wee
Published: Jan 30, 2019
Author: Jacob Sullum
Post Date: 2019-02-01 06:21:06 by Deckard
Keywords: None
Views: 375
Comments: 34

Even if Dennis Tuttle and Rhogena Nicholas were selling heroin out of their house, the government's violent response cannot be morally justified.

Houston Police Department

On Monday evening in Houston, a dozen armed men broke into the home of Dennis Tuttle and Rhogena Nicholas, a middle-aged couple who had lived in the house at 7815 Harding Street for at least two decades. The first man through the door, who was armed with a shotgun, used it to kill one of the couple's dogs. Tuttle responded to the home invasion by grabbing a revolver and shooting the man with the shotgun, who collapsed on a sofa in the living room. As Nicholas tried to disarm the intruder, his accomplices shot her. Tuttle returned fire, and by the end of the shootout he and his wife were both dead. Four of the assailants were hit by gunfire, while a fifth injured his knee.

Many people will be reassured to learn that the men who stormed into the house on Harding Street were police officers serving a drug warrant. I am not one of those people. Let me explain why, starting with some fishy aspects of the official police account and ending with the immorality of responding to peaceful, voluntary transactions with violence.

At a press conference on Monday night, Houston Police Chief Art Acevedo initially said the address of the raid, which began around 5 p.m., was in the 7800 block of Hardy Street, about 12 miles from the actual location. Acevedo said "Hardy Street" three times, and he seemed to be reading the address from a stack of papers. By the end of the press conference, he was saying "Harding Street." Which address was on the search warrant? I am waiting to hear back from the Houston Police Department on that point.*

Acevedo said the the plainclothes narcotics cops serving the warrant "announced themselves as Houston police officers while simultaneously breaching the front door." Meanwhile, uniformed officers waiting in or near a "marked police unit" outside the house "hit the siren and hit the lights so they knew that police officers were there." Maybe that's true, but it is possible that Tuttle did not hear the siren or did not connect it to the men bursting into his house. It is also plausible that the officers' announcement, which by Acevedo's account happened at the same moment that they were knocking down the door, did not register amid the noise, confusion, and shotgun blasts.

"Immediately upon breaching the door," Acevedo said on Monday, "the officers came under fire from one or two suspects inside the house." But as he revealed during a press conference the next day, it was actually the police who fired first, killing what he described as "a very large pit bull that charged at that officer."

When a reporter asked whether Tuttle and Nicholas knew they were being raided by police, Acevedo said "a lot of drug houses have surveillance systems that are better than what businesses use," because "they want to know when the cops are coming." Contrary to the implication, KHOU, the CBS affiliate in Houston, reports that the house had no security cameras, although "a house next door to the Tuttles' home does have surveillance video," and "police took that footage for evidence." Acevedo said the officers involved in the raid were not wearing body cameras.

According to Acevedo, the investigation that led to the raid "began because a neighbor had the courage to say, 'We're not going to put up [with this]. We think that they're dealing dope out of this house.'" That tip was passed on to the narcotics division, which "was able to actually determine" that "street-level narcotics dealing" of "black-tar heroin" was happening at the house. Acevedo said police "actually bought black-tar heroin at that location," although "we didn't find any" on Monday. Instead the search discovered an unspecified amount of marijuana, along with a white powder that police thought might be cocaine, or maybe fentanyl.

"The neighborhood thanked our officers because it was a drug house," Acevedo said. "They described it as a problem location." But according to the Houston Chronicle, Tuttle and Nicholas, who had been married 21 years, "kept to themselves" and "didn't seem like troublemakers." Tuttle's sister, Elizabeth Ferrari, told the paper she talked to her brother, a disabled 59-year-old Navy veteran, last week, and he seemed fine. She had never seen any indication that he and his wife were involved with drugs. "I don't buy it all," Ferrari said. "Not one hot minute." Other relatives and friends "offered similar disbelief."

KHOU reports that "Tuttle apparently had no criminal record," while the only mark against Nicholas was a misdemeanor "theft by check" charge involving $145. After she paid restitution, the charge was dismissed. One neighbor told KHOU "they never had company," while another said, "There was never traffic at that house. Never." Neighbors interviewed by the station said "they never noticed suspicious activity."

Maybe other neighbors had different impressions. Maybe Tuttle and Nicholas really were selling heroin out of their house. But if so, they were not doing anything that justified the government's violence. Since exchanging intoxicants for money violates no one's rights, the police were clearly the aggressors in this situation.

Acevedo tried to disguise that reality by arguing that the illegal drug trade drives violence in Houston. "While people think drugs is a harmless crime," he said on Monday, "the industry is not harmless, and a lot of the shootings we see in our city are drug rips or people fighting over gang territory." But crimes like those are not inherent to the drug business; they are a consequence of prohibition, which creates a black market in which participants cannot rely on legal protection and tend to resolve disputes with violence.

Acevedo used the deadly drug raid as a pretext to push gun control, saying politicians should enact policies to curtail "the proliferation of firearms in the hands of people that have no business having guns." The only specific example he mentioned was requiring background checks for anyone who buys a firearm at a gun show, whether or not the seller is a federally licensed dealer. But if the local press reports are correct, neither Tuttle nor Nicholas had a criminal record that would have disqualified them from owning guns.

In addition to the .357 Magnum revolver that Tuttle reportedly fired, police found two 12-gauge shotguns, a 20-gauge shotgun, a .22 rifle, and a Remington 700 bolt-action rifle. That's not a lot of guns for Texas, and there is nothing about this collection that suggests criminally violent intent. The fact that Tuttle used his revolver in self-defense during a home invasion hardly proves he was a public menace.

Joe Gamaldi, president of the Houston Police Officers Union, seized on the occasion to condemn people who criticize cops. "We are sick and tired of having targets on our back," he said on Monday night. "We are sick and tired of having dirtbags trying to take our lives when all we're trying to do is protect this community and protect our families. Enough is enough. And if you're the ones that are out there spreading the rhetoric that police officers are the enemy, well, just know we've all got your number now, and we're going to be keeping track of all y'all, and we're going to be making sure we're going to be holding you accountable every time you stir the pot on our police officers."

Tuttle did not go looking for cops to shoot. He was responding to a violent attack by men he may not even have recognized as police officers, men who knocked his door in, repeatedly fired a shotgun, killed his dog, and fatally shot his wife. If police officers don't want to be portrayed as the enemy, they should stop acting like the enemy.

*Update: According to a police spokeswoman, the address of the raid, 7815 Harding Street, is the same as the address on the search warrant, which she says will be publicly released soon.


Poster Comment:

Tuttle did not go looking for cops to shoot. He was responding to a violent attack by men he may not even have recognized as police officers, men who knocked his door in, repeatedly fired a shotgun, killed his dog, and fatally shot his wife.

If police officers don't want to be portrayed as the enemy, they should stop acting like the enemy. (1 image)

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TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

#1. To: All (#0)

‘They Did Not Deal Drugs’: Neighbors of Slain Couple Who Shot 4 Cops Refute Official Story

Computer Hope

Government is in the last resort the employment of armed men, of policemen, gendarmes, soldiers, prison guards, and hangmen.
The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning.
Those who are asking for more government interference are asking ultimately for more compulsion and less freedom.

Deckard  posted on  2019-02-01   7:35:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Deckard (#0)

" He was responding to a violent attack by men he may not even have recognized as police officers, men who knocked his door in, repeatedly fired a shotgun, killed his dog, and fatally shot his wife. "

Interesting story ! If above statement is true, I am sure many of us would have defended ourselves & family members as well, with violence !!

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.

Never Pick A Fight With An Old Man He Will Just Shoot You He Can't Afford To Get Hurt

"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." (Will Rogers)

"No one ever rescues an old dog. They lay in a cage until they die. PLEASE save one. None of us wants to die cold and alone... --Dennis Olson "

AMERICA! Designed by geniuses. Now run by idiots.

Stoner  posted on  2019-02-01   8:34:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Deckard (#0)

and ending with the immorality of responding to peaceful, voluntary transactions with violence.

and ending with the immorality of responding to peaceful, voluntary, illegal transactions with violence. The author accidentally left that out.

misterwhite  posted on  2019-02-01   9:01:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: misterwhite (#3)

It appears confirmed from local reports that they raid was conducted by cops NOT IN UNIFORM.

Can you explain who the freak decided that it was a good idea to conduct an armed police raid on a home WITHOUT FREAKING UNIFORMS?

And it also appears true that the cops fired first, killing the dog.

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-02-01   10:41:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Pinguinite (#4)

It appears confirmed from local reports that they raid was conducted by cops NOT IN UNIFORM.

Then what were they wearing -- hoodies?

They announced themselves as police officers and there were uniformed officers outside in marked cars who turned on their sirens and lights.

"And it also appears true that the cops fired first, killing the dog."

They fired at the charging pit bull, not the occupants.

misterwhite  posted on  2019-02-01   12:41:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Deckard (#0)

Time to bring in the Texas Rangers.

This sounds like the police screwed the pooch on this one.

Neighbors say this is a good couple, They have been their for along time and no hard drugs were found. Its fair for the citizen to defend itself when someone breaks in and then shoots the dog instantly. I too would have gone for my weapon and shot the first person I saw if I had done nothing really wrong in life.

You have to do some investigating before you raid peoples properties. Taking CI's word is 40/60 proposition of truth.

Justified  posted on  2019-02-01   13:15:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Justified (#6)

This could easily be a case of a couple innocent of any wrongdoing acting out of legitimate fear for their lives, standing their ground and honestly defending their lives and home from an attack by unknown assailants.

Any drugs found after the raid could have been planted, as the police would have a very understandable motive to do so for liability purposes. It appears this no-knock raid was based only on the word of a single witness and nothing more.

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-02-01   14:39:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Pinguinite (#7)

I agree. I think the only drugs they found were a little personal pot.

Justified  posted on  2019-02-01   16:00:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: misterwhite (#5)

Then what were they wearing -- hoodies?

I suppose you're right. If you are going to bust into someone's home while armed and shoot someone's dog, there's nothing wrong with cutting a few corners. Who needs stinkin' uniforms anyway? It's just a formality.

They announced themselves as police officers and there were uniformed officers outside in marked cars who turned on their sirens and lights.

Did they? Sirens are only used when moving, not when parked. If you are doing a no knock raid, you typically don't give that kind of warning. Did they knock or just bust in?

They fired at the charging pit bull, not the occupants.

I believe the pit bull was one of the occupants, and if someone busted into my house and shot my dog, I wouldn't exactly respond by a greeting about the weather.

Did they even have body vests on? For the cops to go busting into the home and fire weapons when the homeowner is armed all while in plain clothes is Darwin Award material.

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-02-01   16:46:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Justified (#8)

I think the only drugs they found were a little personal pot.

Event that may have been planted but even if not, still doesn't justify the cop stupidity and overreaction.

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-02-01   16:47:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Pinguinite (#4)

You can act fucking retarded all you want, but don’t expect those you post to, to believe those drug dealing fuck stains didn’t know from start, that it was cops kicking their door.

I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح

GrandIsland  posted on  2019-02-01   18:39:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Deckard (#1)

and by the end of the shootout he and his wife were both dead.

No more heroin sold by those criminal shitbirds.

I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح

GrandIsland  posted on  2019-02-01   18:41:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Pinguinite (#9)

Did they even have body vests on? For the cops to go busting into the home and fire weapons when the homeowner is armed all while in plain clothes is Darwin Award material.

Previously, the informant said he saw a gun on the table. It was a no-knock drug drug drug raid. I would hope they were wearing body armor. Meaning they were "in uniform".

"If you are doing a no knock raid, you typically don't give that kind of warning."

I've seen no-knock videos where they did just that.

misterwhite  posted on  2019-02-02   10:08:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Deckard (#0)

Maybe other neighbors had different impressions. Maybe Tuttle and Nicholas really were selling heroin out of their house. But if so, they were not doing anything that justified the government's violence.

Do you agree with this statement. People selling heroin don't deserve to be killed.

Because I think anyone and everyone who deals heroin should be shot in the head. All of them. No exceptions. By the police, by a neighbor or a firing squad.

If your neighbor is dealing heroin you should have a right of self defense to take them out.

A K A Stone  posted on  2019-02-02   10:51:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: misterwhite (#13)

Previously, the informant said he saw a gun on the table.

And that was obviously good intel. I mean, plenty of good honest INNOCENT folk leave shotguns on the table as decoration... or maybe it’s a shotgun protecting a drug factory. Something every poster here wants in their neighborhood.

Can you imagine how much more the cops would have been shot up IF they knocked nicely, announced they have a warrant and they ARE coming in. lol

I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح

GrandIsland  posted on  2019-02-02   11:47:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: A K A Stone (#14)

If your neighbor is dealing heroin you should have a right of self defense to take them out.

Other than constitutional issues of due process, I agree with you.

These lazy, non working criminal shitbags don’t care how they victimize those living around them. Just as long as they can live a lifestyle free from working... and roll in the dough. That’s a drug dealer. They all, mostly, collect welfare, too.

I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح

GrandIsland  posted on  2019-02-02   11:50:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: A K A Stone (#14)

misterwhite  posted on  2019-02-02   12:39:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: misterwhite (#13)

I would hope they were wearing body armor. Meaning they were "in uniform".

You are pathetic.

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-02-02   14:45:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Pinguinite (#18)

I'm saying the vests were probably labeled "Police", meaning they were identifiable. Couple that with the other factors I mentioned, and your argument that the occupants didn't know they were law enforcement falls apart.

misterwhite  posted on  2019-02-02   18:07:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Deckard (#0)

Six Weeks in Jail for Possessing Laundry Detergent

A disturbing story out of Florida recounts that Matt Crull spent six weeks in jail on a drug trafficking charge after police claimed, based on drug field test results, that a substance in Crull’s van was heroin. Crull was released this month after further testing indicated the substance was actually laundry detergent.

Book 'em Danno!


hondo68  posted on  2019-02-02   18:08:43 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Deckard (#0)

Houston Search Warrant, unnumbered paragraphs 4-5

The State of Texas: To any Peace Officer of the State of Texas:

Whereas, the affiant whose name appears on the affidavit attached hereto is a peace office officer under the laws of Texas and did heretofore this day subscribe and swear to said affidavit before me, and whereas I find that the verified facts stated by affiant in said affidavit show that affiant has probable cause for the belief he/she expresses erein and established existence of proper gronds for issuance of this Warrant;

Now therefore, you are commanded to enter the suspected place, vehicles, and premises described in said affidavit, to-wit: a one story residence located at “7815 Harding street”. Said suspected place is described as: a one story residence located in the 7800 block of Harding street. The location is located in Houston, Harris County, Texas. Said location is better described as a one story residence constructed of wood. The residence is tan in color with white trim. The residence in question is located on the north side of Harding street between the intersections of Berkley and Fennell. The front door is white in color and faces south. The numbers “7815” are plainly displayed on the residence in question. The location in question is located in the 7800 block of Harding street, Houston, Harris County, Texas.

At said places you shall search for and, if same be found, seize and bring before me the property described in the affidavit that the suspected party, or others in control of the suspected place, are alleged to be concealing and to have in his/her possession in violation of the laws of the State of Texas, to-wit: heroin.

I further find that affiant has established sufficient reason to believe that to knock and announce their purpose by the officers executing this warrant would be futile, dangerous, and otherwise inhibit the effective investigation of the offense or offenses related to the purpose of this warrant. Therefore, unless circumstances to the contrary are discovered prior to entry, you are hereby authorized to dispense with the usual requirement that you knock and announce, your purpose before entering the suspected place to execute this warrant.

Houston Search Warrant Affidavit, paragraph 5

5. Affiant has probable cause for said belief by reason of the following facts and circumstances: On January 27, 2019, a narcotic investigation was being conducted at the above residence, located at 7815 Harding street, Houston, Harris County Texas. Your Affiant had previously received information that the above male, whose name is unknown, was selling narcotics. This investigation had been going on for approximately two (2) weeks by the Houston Police Narcotic Division. On 01/27/2019, your Affiant contacted the below confidential informant regarding the above location mentioned above. Your Affiant met with the confidential informant to further this narcotic investigation. The confidential informant was met at a pre-determined location to assist officers of the narcotic division with this investigation. The Affiant searched the confidential informant and found the confidential informant to be clear of any narcotics / and or paraphernalia. The confidential informant was advised your by your Affiant that at the above location in question, narcotics were being sold and stored. The confidential informant was provided U.S. currency by the Affiant for the purpose of buying narcotics from any individuals located at the above location in question. The Affiant observed the confidential informant go directly to the above location in question, where the confidential informant was met by a male from inside the above residence in question. After several minutes, the Affiant observed the confidential informant leave the residence in question and return directly to the Affiant. The confidential informant surrendered a quantity of brown powder substance to the Affiant. The confidential informant advised that the substance was purchased as “boy”. The term “boy” is a street slang for heroin. The confidential informant advised that the substance was purchased from the male described above and whose name is unknown. The confidential informant advised that additional quantity of brown powder substance was observed in the unknown male’s hand which went back into the residence above of “7815 Harding street”. The confidential informant also advised that the additional substance was in the care / custody and control of the male described above and whose name is unknown. The additional substance was packaged in a large quantity of plastic baggies. The confidential informant was searched again after the completion of this investigation and found clear of any amount of narcotics. Surveillance was placed on the above location in question by the narcotic officers.

The confidential informant stated that a weapon was observed at the residence above in question during the narcotic transaction. The weapon was on the possession of the above male whose name is unknown but is more fully described above. The weapon appeared to be a semi-auto hand gun of a 9mm caliber. The confidential informant also advised that the confidential informant was advised by the male above whose name is unknown to return when more “boy” was needed.

The quantity of brown powder substance purchased at the above residence located at “7815 Harding street” on 01/27/2019 was recognized by sight and texture as “heroin” by your Affiant and narcotic officer [redacted] the brown powder substance was also referred to as heroin by its street name of “boy”.

The confidential informant has provided informant and assistance to officers in past on at least (10) prior occasions which has lead to narcotic arrests and seizures. The confidential informant has proven to be credible and reliable on many prior occasions. Officers have made arrests and seized narcotics based on information and assistance provided by the confidential informant in the past.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/29/us/houston-shooting.html

The first officer to enter the home was immediately charged by a pit bull and shot at by the man inside the home, identified as Dennis Tuttle, Chief Acevedo said. The officer, 33, who has been with the Police Department for 10 years, fatally shot the dog and was struck on his shoulder, falling onto the sofa.

Chief Acevedo said that the woman in the home, Rhogena Nicholas, then reached over that officer to grab his shotgun. Backup officers then opened fire at Ms. Nicholas, he said.

At one point, Mr. Tuttle stuck his gun through the doorway and opened fire at the officers, the police said.

https://www.whig.com/article/20190129/AP/301299841#

Houston's police chief says what began as an attempt to serve a search warrant at a suspected drug house turned into a gunbattle that killed two suspects and injured five officers, including four who were shot.

Chief Art Acevedo says the suspects were killed Monday after firing at officers who were trying to enter a southeast Houston home where authorities allege black tar heroin was being sold.

Four of the officers were shot and a fifth suffered a knee injury.

Acevedo says two of the officers who were shot were hit in the neck by gunfire and are in critical but stable condition.

Two other officers, including the one who injured a knee, are in good condition. One officer who was shot in the shoulder has been released.

Two shot in the neck, two shot in the shoulder. The consistent pattern suggests the shooter did not aim at center mass.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/houston/article/Powder-found-in-police-raid-identified-13578839.php

Police identify powder recovered in deadly drug raid

Keri Blakinger
Houston Chronicle
Jan. 31, 2019 Updated: Feb. 2, 2019 2:57 p.m.

“The Thursday news conference revealed that the powder was cocaine, perhaps answering one of the nagging questions raised after the Pecan Park raid targeting a pair of alleged heroin dealers.”

nolu chan  posted on  2019-02-02   18:52:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: nolu chan (#21)

The confidential informant was provided U.S. currency by the Affiant for the purpose of buying narcotics from any individuals located at the above location in question. The Affiant observed the confidential informant go directly to the above location in question, where the confidential informant was met by a male from inside the above residence in question. After several minutes, the Affiant observed the confidential informant leave the residence in question and return directly to the Affiant. The confidential informant surrendered a quantity of brown powder substance

That’s a buy-bust. No-knock warrant 101.

Moral of the story: If you don’t want your door kicked at zero dark thirty... by guys wearing tactical gear... DONT BREAK THE FUCKING LAW.

After the police killed both of these violent shitbags, part of the evidence collected will be THE MONEY THE CI BOUGHT THE DRUGS WITH. It was photographed and serial numbers documented.

To Wit; PLENTY of pc for a no-knock.

I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح

GrandIsland  posted on  2019-02-02   20:15:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: GrandIsland (#22)

Moral of the story: If you don’t want your door kicked at zero dark thirty... by guys wearing tactical gear... DONT BREAK THE FUCKING LAW.

I had a great day in Belize today with family and here I am on the computer with young kids asking, "hey grandpa whats that guy saying?"

Can you tone down your foul, nasty language on a family channel?

buckeroo  posted on  2019-02-02   21:00:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: buckeroo (#23) (Edited)

This ain’t no romper room, traitor. I suggest you act a little less like a libtard free spirit asshole hippie, and keep your little brat offspring from the World Wide Web. It’s the responsible thing to do, dumb shit.

Now carry on with your tribe,in that 3rd world jungle.

I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح

GrandIsland  posted on  2019-02-02   21:38:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: GrandIsland (#24)

... in that 3rd world jungle.

ROTFL

buckeroo  posted on  2019-02-02   21:57:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: buckeroo (#25)

ROTDF

Rolling on the dirt floor.

I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح

GrandIsland  posted on  2019-02-02   22:07:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: GrandIsland (#26)

As I have always cautioned others about you, you are a very weak poster (at best) ... I will never 'buy' that you somehow "a truthful cop lQQking for TRUTH.

In other words, you suck.

buckeroo  posted on  2019-02-02   22:45:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: misterwhite (#19)

Did they even have any body armor? If so, were they visible?

You'll stop at nothing to exonerate these guys.

Give it up.

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-02-02   22:59:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: nolu chan (#21)

Two shot in the neck, two shot in the shoulder. The consistent pattern suggests the shooter did not aim at center mass.

Two possibilities. Either he was aware they were cops wearing protective vests or he was a piss-poor shot.

I'm going with the latter since a .357 hitting a protective vest will likely incapacitate the wearer.

misterwhite  posted on  2019-02-03   12:03:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Pinguinite (#28)

Did they even have any body armor? If so, were they visible?

You tell me -- you brought it up. But I'm guessing they did, given that it was a no-knock drug raid where a weapon was seen previously.

misterwhite  posted on  2019-02-03   12:06:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: misterwhite (#30)

A weapon was seen....

Did you know weapons are legal in the USA?

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-02-03   12:43:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Pinguinite (#31)

Did you know weapons are legal in the USA?

Sure. But when those legal weapons are in a drug house where I'm conducting a no-knock raid, I'm gonna wear a vest.

Unless you're implying that legal weapons are never used against cops.

misterwhite  posted on  2019-02-03   12:51:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: All (#6)

Sounds like a mother called the police on the couple and said their daughter had been doing drugs there.

They found small amounts of Pot and Cocaine.

Just funny to me that the neighbors did not know they were selling drugs.

Justified  posted on  2019-02-06   19:15:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: misterwhite (#32)

Unless you're implying that legal weapons are never used against cops.

That’s the YELLA SPIN... Paultards and MSM have AGENDAS to sell.

I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح

GrandIsland  posted on  2019-02-07   0:54:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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