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Religion
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Title: Pope Francis Implementing Change Of Lord’s Prayer: ‘Lead Us Not Into Temptation’
Source: Daily Wire
URL Source: https://www.dailywire.com/news/3922 ... ge-lords-prayer-lead-paul-bois
Published: Dec 11, 2018
Author: Paul Bois
Post Date: 2018-12-11 10:19:45 by IbJensen
Keywords: None
Views: 311
Comments: 19

(Phony pope, Bergoglio.)

The Vatican under Pope Francis will soon be implementing a change to the Lord's Prayer, also known as the Pater Noster, switching out the line "lead us not into temptation" for the Francis-approved "abandon us not into temptation."

According to the U.K.'s Express, the change to the Lord's Prayer comes after 16 years of research by experts who found a mistake in the current translation "from a theological, pastoral and stylistic viewpoint." It has been translated into literally hundreds of languages from the original texts in ancient Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic.

Last year around Christmas, Pope Francis spoke of his desire to update the "lead us not into temptation" part of the Lord's Prayer, arguing that it portrays God in a false light. "A father does not lead into temptation, a father helps you to get up immediately," the Pope said at the time.

"It is not a good translation because it speaks of a God who induces temptation," he added.

Pope Francis also asserted that other translations had already been changed to correct mistakes and to modernize the language. "The French have modified the prayer to ‘do not let me fall into temptation’, because it is me who falls, not the Lord who tempts me to then see how I fall," he said.

The Daily Wire's Michael Knowles explored why the original translation may actually be the correct one by adhering to the ancient Greek word peirasmos:

While peirasmos, the word for “temptation” in Ancient Greek, may be open to alternate interpretations, who precisely does the leading is not. Peirasmos connotes not only “temptation” but also “trial” and “testing,” as in "to test one’s mettle.” It is in all of these senses, two paragraphs before St. Matthew relates the prayer, that Jesus is “led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be [tempted/tested] by the Devil.” In both cases, while the Devil does the tempting, God leads the way to the trial.

Just why God might lead his faithful into temptation or testing poses a difficult theology question if not an outright mystery.

Defenders of the apparent change say that the new language simply switches out the literal translations so that modern ears may not get the wrong impression. Jimmy Akin argued at National Catholic Register that the current translation already has a change from the original Greek text, so Pope Francis is actually doing nothing radical, as others have asserted:

The previous petition in the standard Catholic version reads “and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us.”

That’s not what the Greek literally says.

It says, 'And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors' (Matt. 6:12).

Debts are a Semitic metaphor for sins, and the English translators have rendered this non-literally as 'trespasses' to make the concept clearer to English-speakers.

Luke did the same thing for Greek-speakers in his version of the Lord’s Prayer, where this petition reads, 'and forgive us our sins, for we ourselves forgive every one who is indebted to us' (Luke 11:4).

Spanish-speaking Catholics have already seen a change to the Lord's Prayer; the line 'forgive us our trespasses' to 'forgive us our mistakes.'

A representative from the Episcopal Conference said that new publication of the Pater Noster will "renew the ecclesiastic community."

"The Bishops intend for the publication of the new edition to be an opportunity to help renew the ecclesiastic community," said the rep, reports Express. "Liturgical reforms are just a starting point. The renewal shall include ordained ministers, as well as the believers."

"Developments like these are becoming increasingly crucial in the process of Christian initiation, in workshops and in proposals for the permanent training of the clergy," the rep added.


Poster Comment:

A change here, a change there. What does it all matter to the now meaningless Roman Catholic New Age Religion?

THIS is what is important to Francis....NOT CLEANING OUT THE CORRUPTION THAT IS IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH THAT BEGAN WITH THE EVIL VATICAN II THAT EVENTUALLY CREATED AN ENTIRELY NEW RELIGION THAT HAS LITTLE TO DO WITH GOD. (1 image)

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#1. To: IbJensen (#0)

Question of the day.

Who said this?

"Would you like to see the pope on the end of a rope do you think he's a fool?"

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-12-11   10:27:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: A K A Stone (#1)

Who said this?

Who said what?

The pope is just another agnostic fool following those popes subsequent to Vatican II who completely ruined God's Church on earth by converting it to secular humanism.

Liberals are like Slinkys. They're good for nothing, but somehow they bring a smile to your face as you shove them down the stairs.

IbJensen  posted on  2018-12-11   11:33:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: IbJensen (#2)

The Catholic church was never God's Church on Earth. There is no Pope in the Bible

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-12-11   11:40:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: A K A Stone (#3)

The line from Peter, at least up until Vatican II, was unbroken ever since Jesus Christ said "upon this rock (Peter) I will build my Church........"

Liberals are like Slinkys. They're good for nothing, but somehow they bring a smile to your face as you shove them down the stairs.

IbJensen  posted on  2018-12-11   11:44:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: IbJensen (#0)

WTF do you care? You're not a fuckin' Christian anyway.....

Willie Green  posted on  2018-12-11   12:35:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: IbJensen (#0)

But Pope Dope the First, turdworld commie thief, still covers up for kid-diddlers, right?

Hank Rearden  posted on  2018-12-11   13:07:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: IbJensen (#4)

You didn't say he would build his church upon Peter

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-12-11   13:48:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: IbJensen (#4) (Edited)

The rock was Peter's assertion that Jesus is the Messiah, not Peter himself otherwise he could not have called Peter a stumbling block

3 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?” 14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” 15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” 17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.

21 From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life. 22 Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. “Never, Lord!” he said. “This shall never happen to you!” 23 Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

paraclete  posted on  2018-12-11   17:02:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: A K A Stone (#7)

He selected Peter as the head of His Church on earth. Peter, of course, was to be succeeded in order that the Church remain until the Second Coming.

Liberals are like Slinkys. They're good for nothing, but somehow they bring a smile to your face as you shove them down the stairs.

IbJensen  posted on  2018-12-12   8:26:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Willie Green (#5)

WTF do you care? You're not a fuckin' Christian anyway.....

I Am A Christian, but you are an asshole, but then you are well aware of that as your sophomoric postings prove.

Liberals are like Slinkys. They're good for nothing, but somehow they bring a smile to your face as you shove them down the stairs.

IbJensen  posted on  2018-12-12   8:28:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Hank Rearden (#6)

But Pope Dope the First, turdworld commie thief, still covers up for kid-diddlers, right?

My opinion is that every pope since Vatican II is illegitimate.

Liberals are like Slinkys. They're good for nothing, but somehow they bring a smile to your face as you shove them down the stairs.

IbJensen  posted on  2018-12-12   8:30:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: IbJensen (#10)

I Am A Christian

Oh baloney... You're nothing but a hate-filled Catholic basher... WWJD?

Willie Green  posted on  2018-12-12   8:47:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: IbJensen (#9)

He selected Peter as the head of His Church on earth. Peter, of course, was to be succeeded in order that the Church remain until the Second Coming.

That is made up bullshit that doesn't jive with scripture.

Round 1 1. Christ does not say that He is making Peter the head of His church.

2. The key to understanding this scripture lies in the correct translation of the Greek words here rendered "Peter" and "rock." The Greek word translated "Peter" is petros, meaning "pebble" or "small stone," while the word rendered "rock" is petra, meaning "big rock" or "huge boulder."

3. Christ says He would build His church on the boulder, not on Peter the pebble. Christ is the rock (I Corinthians 10:4). He is also the "chief cornerstone," upon which the church is built (Ephesians 2:20).

4. Although Peter is shown in a leadership position among the apostles throughout the gospels and Acts, the early church leaders did not function in a strict hierarchical manner. Read and study Acts 15:1-29. Here is a ministerial conference called to discuss a matter of doctrine causing division in the church (verse 6). Peter makes his point (verses 7-11), which is later adopted by the other apostles and elders (verse 22). But it is James, the physical brother of Jesus Christ and pastor of the Jerusalem church, who sums up the conference's decision (verses 13-19). This helps us to understand how the apostles (plural) form the foundation of the church with the prophets (Ephesians 2:20).

5. Peter was not infallible. Read Matthew 16:21-23, where Jesus has to rebuke Peter severely for a wrong attitude immediately after His statement about the "rock." In addition, the apostle Paul later corrects him publicly for returning to the Jewish practice of refusing to eat with Gentiles (Galatians 2:11-14).

From these proofs, it is easy to see that Jesus did not say He would build His church on Peter, a mere man, but on Himself, and because of that, the church would endure and prevail.

https://www.cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/BQA/k/218/Did-Christ- Build-Church-on-Peter-Matthew-1618.htm

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-12-12   8:48:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: All (#13)

The book of Hebrews says that we don’t need a middle man. Writing to Jewish believers in Jesus, the author makes it clear that a human high priest is no longer needed as a liaison between ourselves and God—that God was not encountered only in the temple.

Jesus gives us each direct access to Divinity.

I grew up Catholic, believing the priest was an intermediary for me and that a variety of saints gave me special connection to God. This isn’t what the New Testament teaches. The priest, rabbi, minister or pastor is not magic. They can be helpful, but they’re not essential and they’re not supernatural. And yes, because of this, you can have access to God wherever you are—no matter how modest or ordinary the surroundings might be.

The Church grows without a building campaign. The early believers were essentially in-house churches, where immediate family, extended family and friends were already living in deep, meaningful community together. They didn’t have to rent out space and a sound system and start service planning.

They were already living life together organically and so they didn’t need to create a destination to foster community. These groups absorbed the new converts, but there is no evidence of the healthy evolution of these communities into organized churches. The only mention we have is in the book of Revelation, where large, opulent churches are being chastised for their corruption and apathy.

GOD WITH US Jesus says where two or three are gathered He is present. Two or three—not 40 or 150 or 6,000. Not an auditorium with a speaker, a band and dozens of rows of chairs.

This is Emmanuel “God with us.” Jesus never promises that with size or organization that there would be more of His presence. He didn’t leave building instructions or establish an organizational structure or provide liturgical templates. He affirmed that his people and his presence were the only necessary ingredients. They would come to the table together, and He would take a seat there with them. Your kitchen table, a bar in a tap-room, a bench at the park, a coffee shop. He is present there.

He said so.

The Apostle Paul tells us we are the Temple. In his letter to the Corinthians, Paul writes to tell Christians in that city that God’s presence is not just above and around them but within them. They are the very “Body of Christ” on earth, they are the “temple of the Holy Spirit”—living, breathing sanctuaries.

The idea of them needing to visit a specific place to have proximity to God was now ludicrous. They were the place. They needed only to go inward. This is the heart of the Church then. It still is; not where they gather, but as they gather.

Jesus tells the disciples to remember Him. At their final meal before His death, Jesus offers bread and wine as a symbol of his coming sacrifice. He then asks them to remember him when they break bread together in the future.

He is not telling them to establish a weekly worship service or to create a rigid liturgy or to institute a sacrament. He is commanding them not to forget Him; to live together and to eat and to remember. No sanctuary is necessary for this. This is a fully portable experience.

The truth is Jesus was teaching something very different from what the word “church” means to us today. We’ve grown up in the building and the system and the tradition, so we believe that this is the Church. But the Church as a place you visit for an hour on Sunday where God shows up, or where community can solely be found—simply isn’t Biblical.

Jesus’ ministry was about de-centralizing religion, so that the people carried it, not the synagogue or temple or the sanctuary.

Again, you may find that building comforting or edifying, and you may find inspiration and wisdom there. That may be spiritual community for you. But don’t assume that this building has the market cornered on any of those things, and don’t cheapen the spiritual journey of those outside of the building, by acting as if everything found there cannot also be found beyond it. It can. Over and over the Bible makes this clear.

https://relevantmagazine.com/god/remember-bible-never-mentions-building- called-church

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-12-12   8:54:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: A K A Stone (#13)

Christ does not say that He is making Peter the head of His church.

'Peter' in Aramaic means rock. Jesus didn't mean to refer to Peter as a blockhead, rather as the anchor to which he entrusted his Church.

Liberals are like Slinkys. They're good for nothing, but somehow they bring a smile to your face as you shove them down the stairs.

IbJensen  posted on  2018-12-12   10:17:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: A K A Stone (#14)

The precise meaning of the Aramaic word is disputed, some saying that its usual meaning is "rock" or "crag", others saying that it means rather "stone" and, particularly in its application by Jesus to Simon, "precious stone" or "jewel", but most scholars agree that as a proper name it denotes a rough or tough character ...

Liberals are like Slinkys. They're good for nothing, but somehow they bring a smile to your face as you shove them down the stairs.

IbJensen  posted on  2018-12-12   10:19:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: IbJensen (#15)

You have to add to scripture to come up with what you said.

Christ didn't build his church on a sinner.

He also doesn't like people praying to the non virgin sinner Mary. Yes Mary was a virgin but she had other kids after Jesus.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-12-12   15:15:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: A K A Stone (#17)

Christ didn't build his church on a sinner.

We're all sinners and you and I had best not discuss religion as I am as firm in my beliefs as you apparently are.

Liberals are like Slinkys. They're good for nothing, but somehow they bring a smile to your face as you shove them down the stairs.

IbJensen  posted on  2018-12-13   8:03:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Willie Green (#12)

And you're nothing but an asshole who is probably a pansy.

Liberals are like Slinkys. They're good for nothing, but somehow they bring a smile to your face as you shove them down the stairs.

IbJensen  posted on  2018-12-14   10:40:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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