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New World Order
See other New World Order Articles

Title: Birthright citizenship in the United States
Source: [None]
URL Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth ... tizenship_in_the_United_States
Published: Nov 1, 2018
Author: Food for thought
Post Date: 2018-11-01 11:52:43 by Justified
Keywords: None
Views: 9178
Comments: 80

Current U.S. law

Citizenship in the United States is a matter of federal law, governed by the United States Constitution.

Since the adoption of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution on July 9, 1868, the citizenship of persons born in the United States has been controlled by its Citizenship Clause, which states: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."[10] Statute, by birth within U.S.

United States Federal law (8 U.S.C. § 1401) defines who is a United States citizen from birth. The following are among those listed there as persons who shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:

"
a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" or "
a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe" (see Indian Citizenship Act of 1924). "
a person of unknown parentage found in the United States while under the age of five years, until shown, prior to his attaining the age of twenty-one years, not to have been born in the United States" "
a person born in an outlying possession of the United States of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at any time prior to the birth of such person"

Elk v. Wilkins, 112 U.S. 94 (1884),[1] was a United States Supreme Court case respecting the citizenship status of Indians.

John Elk, a Winnebago Indian, was born on an Indian reservation and later resided with whites on the non-reservation US territory in Omaha, Nebraska, where he renounced his former tribal allegiance and claimed citizenship by virtue of the Citizenship Clause.[2] The case came about after Elk tried to register to vote on April 5, 1880 and was denied by Charles Wilkins, the named defendant, who was registrar of voters of the Fifth ward of the City of Omaha.

The court decided that even though Elk was born in the United States, he was not a citizen because he owed allegiance to his tribe when he was born rather than to the U.S. and therefore was not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States when he was born.

The United States Congress later enacted The Indian Citizenship Act of 1924 which established citizenship for Indians previously excluded by the US Constitution; however no subsequent Supreme Court case has reversed the majority opinion offered on Elk v. Wilkins including the detailed definitions of the terms of the 14th Amendment as written by Justice Gray. The Elk v. Wilkins opinion remains valid for interpretation of future citizenship issues regarding the 14th Amendment, but has been rendered undebatable for its application to native Indians due to the Act of Congress.

Indian Citizenship Act

The Indian Citizenship Act of 1924, also known as the Snyder Act, was proposed by Representative Homer P. Snyder (R) of New York and granted full U.S. citizenship to the indigenous peoples of the United States, called "Indians" in this Act. While the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution defines as citizens any person born in the U.S. and subject to its jurisdiction, the amendment has been interpreted that the Tribes are separate Nations to which an Indian owes allegiance and therefore are not under the jurisdiction of the United States. The act was signed into law by President Calvin Coolidge on June 2, 1924. It was enacted partially in recognition of the thousands of Indians who served in the armed forces during World War I.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 77.

#1. To: Justified, vicomte13 (#0)

This should be a slam dunk case for the Supreme court.

It would be if only Vic wasn't going around raising rats like Ginsburg from the dead.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-11-01   11:54:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: A K A Stone (#1)

It would be if only Vic wasn't going around raising rats like Ginsburg from the dead.

God raised a mouse from the dead. I was merely present.

Not sure what that has to do with Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

The text of the 14th Amendment is clear, and it applies here.

If it goes to the Supreme Court, I expect an 8-1 ruling that Birthright Citizenship is what the 14th Amendment says. Thomas will say no. Roberts, Alito, Kavanaugh will all agree with me. Not sure about Gorsuch, maybe 7-2.

This fight is not going to be won like this. We have to patrol the border and wall it, and enforce existing law to stop illegal immigration. Messing around with the Constitution's plain words is not going to fly - the court, 7-2 at worst, and maybe 9-0, will say that the 14th Amendment's plain English bestows birthright citizenship on illegal aliens, because it does.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-11-01   12:02:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Vicomte13 (#2)

No it doesn't. They are not subjects to our jurisdiction. That is a fact proven by the easy to understand words and the words of the people who wrote the fourteenth amendment. Which has the force of law but truthfully was never lawfully ratified.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-11-01   12:06:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: A K A Stone, Vicomte13 (#3)

No it doesn't. They are not subjects to our jurisdiction.

What jurisdiction was claimed to prosecute the killer of Kate Steinle; said killer being a bona fide illegal alien?

The 14th Amendment speaks to the status of the newborn child, without respect to the parents of the child. The status of the newborn child is not affected by the parents being legal or illegal aliens.

The child, at the time of birth, is in the United States and has never been anywhere else. The child is within the jurisdiction of the United States unless he or she is the child of persons such as officially recognized foreign diplomats or visiting royalty who enjoy immunity from U.S. jurisdiction.

The ratified words of the 14th Amendment are controlling.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.

This was just a pre-election Trump troll.

Trump: I can eliminate birthright citizenship by Executive Order.

Congress: You are a usurper. That's the job of Congress.

Trump: OK, do your job.

As long as the Democrats are talking about Trump, they are not getting out any message of their own.

A SCOTUS vote would likely be 9-0 against.

The plain language meaning of the words of the 14th Amendment cannot be avoided.

nolu chan  posted on  2018-11-01   12:44:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: nolu chan, A K A Stone, All (#9)

The 14th was for and only slaves. It has been stated as such many times since. The Elk v Wilkins reaffirmed it. This is why we have the Indian Citizenship Act of 1924 because even if born on American soil you are not a citizen.

Im not sure how it could be any clearer. I believe even the writer of the 14th stated as much. The 14th has been bastardized to allow anyone born on US soil ie US Jurisdiction to be US citizen even though they really are under the jurisdiction of the parents country. I think people really have to tie themselves into a legal pretzel to say otherwise.

JMHO

Justified  posted on  2018-11-01   19:23:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: Justified (#55)

The 14th was for and only slaves. It has been stated as such many times since. The Elk v Wilkins reaffirmed it.

You are wrong. The 14th was not only for slaves. Elk did not affirm that. The author of the citizenship clause of the 14th amendment did not say that.

People should give up on Elk already. That argument has long been weighed and found wanting.

UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT

U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649, 682 (1898)

The decision in Elk v. Wilkins concerned only members of the Indian tribes within the United States, and had no tendency to deny citizenship to children born in the United States of foreign parents of Caucasian, African or Mongolian descent, not in the diplomatic service of a foreign country. The real object of the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution, in qualifying the words, "All persons born in the United States," by the addition, "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof," would appear to have been to exclude, by the fewest and fittest words, (besides children of members of the Indian tribes, standing in a peculiar relation to the National Government, unknown to the common law,) the two classes of cases — children born of alien enemies in hostile occupation and children of diplomatic representatives of a foreign State — both of which, as has already been shown, by the law of England, and by our own law, from the time of the first settlement of the English colonies in America, had been recognized exceptions to the fundamental rule of citizenship by birth within the country. Calvin's Case, 7 Rep. 1, 18b; Cockburn on Nationality, 7; Dicey Conflict of Laws, 171; Inglis v. Sailors' Snug Harbor, 3 Pet. 99, 155 ; 2 Kent Com. 39, 42.

nolu chan  posted on  2018-11-01   20:55:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: nolu chan (#57)

If you are right America is dead.

There is no other way to stop anchor babies because the will of the congress will never ever amend the constitution again. We are too divided.

Unless you have another way to stop anchor baby? When in America our extreme poverty is middle class for half the world. 3.5 billion people just need a way to get here.

Justified  posted on  2018-11-02   10:52:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: Justified, nolu chan (#62)

If you are right America is dead. There is no other way to stop anchor babies because the will of the congress will never ever amend the constitution again. We are too divided.

Sure there is a way. And it's pretty easy.

The President is doing it. You order the army and the national guard, the air force and the Coast Guard and the Navy to defend the border and prevent anybody from crossing it. That's just not that hard. It's expensive, but it isn't hard.

That stops the flow, dead, for as long as you keep the armed forces deployed there.

Then it's a matter of rounding up the illegals internally. To do that, you simply enforce the existing laws on the books.

We have all of the tools necessary to completely stop illegal immigration - and the drug flows to boot - and to kick every illegal out of the country, if we want to do that. We have the massive military, the tech, and the massive law enforcement. The President has the power to deploy the military to do that, and to use federal forces to do that, and with a Republican Congress, the power to cut off federal funds to any Democrat area that won't enforce the law.

And that would be that.

It's not that hard. It's just expensive. Not national-bankruptcy expensive, but expensive.

We don't need to start pretending the Constitution doesn't say what it says in order to stop illegal immigration.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-11-02   17:49:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: Vicomte13, nolu chan (#65)

Vic that makes sense and I have with many others said the same thing about enforce the laws and do whatever it takes to keep illegals out.

Between the libertarians, Regressives and never trumpers there just isn't the will to do the job.

The way things are going we are head to a civil war and no one seems to be trying to stop it! We good Americans have bent over to a point we can't bend anymore.

As for me I see the 14th for the slaves who had children that the demoncrats refused to allow as citizens. If you are here legal then you are under the jurisdiction of US but if you are not here legally ie illegal alien you are not under the jurisdiction of US but of the country you come from and are here illegally. All anyone would have to do is go any US soil including embassy and have a baby and the baby is now an American citizen. That's absolutely insane!

Its just my opinion. Its just street everyday man common sense.

Justified  posted on  2018-11-02   18:27:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: Justified (#68)

Look, I agree with you: when the 14th Amendment was drafted, they were thinking about slaves. Specifically, they were thinking about the nasty racists who had just lost a civil war and who were hellbent on keeping the slaves down. They were also thinking of their future electoral majorities. The Republican North had just conquered the Democratic South. The Republicans controlled all branches of government and were in ascendancy. Those who had participated in rebellion had lost the vote. The Republicans wanted to make sure that every black in the South COULD vote, because they knew that they would all vote Republican, thereby significantly diluting the Democrat voting block.

Nobody in 1865 envisioned illegal aliens flowing in from Mexico. They didn't envision women voting either.

And none of that matters. The individual motivations, or collective motivations, of people who wrote statutes of the past does not matter. What matters is the words they wrote. They wrote broad words, and those are the words that are the law.

Words are malleable. Courts, cops and legislatures manipulate them all the time. That is what has happened too: the malleable words of the 14th Amendment have been used to protect the birth right citisenship (the 26th letter key doesn't work on my computer) of children born to illegals. That was not intended, but it is what the words say.

A court composed of liberal Democrats (4 of them) plus strict constructionists (4 of them) is not going to read that text and not find birth right citisenship. The one originalist can argue against it, based on the "intent" of the drafters, but people only care about intent if the intent is what the modern relying on it also intends.

The tactic of reading legislative intent into laws and statutes is something the Left does routinely to stretch laws past their words. Example: the intent of the Constitution is to create broad rights of privacy. Therefore abortion on demand is the law of the land. That's how that sort of thing goes.

In this case, you're too pessimistic about Trump and the Tea Partiers. Truth is, on Tuesday the Democrats and the Never Trumpers face their Waterloo. Huge numbers of Never Trumpers have already resigned. The Republicans are going to hold Congress, and that's going to be a Trumpish Tea Congress, not a Bushite Establishment Congress. Trump has won the argument, and the People will ratify that on Tuesday, and the new Congress will proceed with a will to enact Trump's agenda.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-11-04   7:36:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: Vicomte13 (#74)

The individual motivations, or collective motivations, of people who wrote statutes of the past does not matter. What matters is the words they wrote.

Their words say no birthright citizenship unless you are subject to this jurisdiction.

They said what they meant and they wrote what they manet.

You're wrong. Chan is wrong.

I'm rightt, Justified is right. cz82 is right.

Original intent dipshit.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-11-04   7:56:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 77.

#78. To: A K A Stone (#77)

If Trump issues the order, we’ll see Chan and I win the point. I think Trump knows that, so I doubt he’ll ever issue the order.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-11-04 11:11:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 77.

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