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New World Order
See other New World Order Articles

Title: Birthright citizenship in the United States
Source: [None]
URL Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth ... tizenship_in_the_United_States
Published: Nov 1, 2018
Author: Food for thought
Post Date: 2018-11-01 11:52:43 by Justified
Keywords: None
Views: 9279
Comments: 80

Current U.S. law

Citizenship in the United States is a matter of federal law, governed by the United States Constitution.

Since the adoption of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution on July 9, 1868, the citizenship of persons born in the United States has been controlled by its Citizenship Clause, which states: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."[10] Statute, by birth within U.S.

United States Federal law (8 U.S.C. § 1401) defines who is a United States citizen from birth. The following are among those listed there as persons who shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:

"
a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" or "
a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe" (see Indian Citizenship Act of 1924). "
a person of unknown parentage found in the United States while under the age of five years, until shown, prior to his attaining the age of twenty-one years, not to have been born in the United States" "
a person born in an outlying possession of the United States of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at any time prior to the birth of such person"

Elk v. Wilkins, 112 U.S. 94 (1884),[1] was a United States Supreme Court case respecting the citizenship status of Indians.

John Elk, a Winnebago Indian, was born on an Indian reservation and later resided with whites on the non-reservation US territory in Omaha, Nebraska, where he renounced his former tribal allegiance and claimed citizenship by virtue of the Citizenship Clause.[2] The case came about after Elk tried to register to vote on April 5, 1880 and was denied by Charles Wilkins, the named defendant, who was registrar of voters of the Fifth ward of the City of Omaha.

The court decided that even though Elk was born in the United States, he was not a citizen because he owed allegiance to his tribe when he was born rather than to the U.S. and therefore was not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States when he was born.

The United States Congress later enacted The Indian Citizenship Act of 1924 which established citizenship for Indians previously excluded by the US Constitution; however no subsequent Supreme Court case has reversed the majority opinion offered on Elk v. Wilkins including the detailed definitions of the terms of the 14th Amendment as written by Justice Gray. The Elk v. Wilkins opinion remains valid for interpretation of future citizenship issues regarding the 14th Amendment, but has been rendered undebatable for its application to native Indians due to the Act of Congress.

Indian Citizenship Act

The Indian Citizenship Act of 1924, also known as the Snyder Act, was proposed by Representative Homer P. Snyder (R) of New York and granted full U.S. citizenship to the indigenous peoples of the United States, called "Indians" in this Act. While the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution defines as citizens any person born in the U.S. and subject to its jurisdiction, the amendment has been interpreted that the Tribes are separate Nations to which an Indian owes allegiance and therefore are not under the jurisdiction of the United States. The act was signed into law by President Calvin Coolidge on June 2, 1924. It was enacted partially in recognition of the thousands of Indians who served in the armed forces during World War I.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 64.

#1. To: Justified, vicomte13 (#0)

This should be a slam dunk case for the Supreme court.

It would be if only Vic wasn't going around raising rats like Ginsburg from the dead.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-11-01   11:54:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: A K A Stone (#1)

It would be if only Vic wasn't going around raising rats like Ginsburg from the dead.

God raised a mouse from the dead. I was merely present.

Not sure what that has to do with Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

The text of the 14th Amendment is clear, and it applies here.

If it goes to the Supreme Court, I expect an 8-1 ruling that Birthright Citizenship is what the 14th Amendment says. Thomas will say no. Roberts, Alito, Kavanaugh will all agree with me. Not sure about Gorsuch, maybe 7-2.

This fight is not going to be won like this. We have to patrol the border and wall it, and enforce existing law to stop illegal immigration. Messing around with the Constitution's plain words is not going to fly - the court, 7-2 at worst, and maybe 9-0, will say that the 14th Amendment's plain English bestows birthright citizenship on illegal aliens, because it does.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-11-01   12:02:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Vicomte13 (#2)

No it doesn't. They are not subjects to our jurisdiction. That is a fact proven by the easy to understand words and the words of the people who wrote the fourteenth amendment. Which has the force of law but truthfully was never lawfully ratified.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-11-01   12:06:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: A K A Stone, Vicomte13 (#3)

No it doesn't. They are not subjects to our jurisdiction.

What jurisdiction was claimed to prosecute the killer of Kate Steinle; said killer being a bona fide illegal alien?

The 14th Amendment speaks to the status of the newborn child, without respect to the parents of the child. The status of the newborn child is not affected by the parents being legal or illegal aliens.

The child, at the time of birth, is in the United States and has never been anywhere else. The child is within the jurisdiction of the United States unless he or she is the child of persons such as officially recognized foreign diplomats or visiting royalty who enjoy immunity from U.S. jurisdiction.

The ratified words of the 14th Amendment are controlling.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.

This was just a pre-election Trump troll.

Trump: I can eliminate birthright citizenship by Executive Order.

Congress: You are a usurper. That's the job of Congress.

Trump: OK, do your job.

As long as the Democrats are talking about Trump, they are not getting out any message of their own.

A SCOTUS vote would likely be 9-0 against.

The plain language meaning of the words of the 14th Amendment cannot be avoided.

nolu chan  posted on  2018-11-01   12:44:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: nolu chan, A K A Stone, All (#9)

The 14th was for and only slaves. It has been stated as such many times since. The Elk v Wilkins reaffirmed it. This is why we have the Indian Citizenship Act of 1924 because even if born on American soil you are not a citizen.

Im not sure how it could be any clearer. I believe even the writer of the 14th stated as much. The 14th has been bastardized to allow anyone born on US soil ie US Jurisdiction to be US citizen even though they really are under the jurisdiction of the parents country. I think people really have to tie themselves into a legal pretzel to say otherwise.

JMHO

Justified  posted on  2018-11-01   19:23:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: Justified (#55)

The 14th was for and only slaves. It has been stated as such many times since. The Elk v Wilkins reaffirmed it.

You are wrong. The 14th was not only for slaves. Elk did not affirm that. The author of the citizenship clause of the 14th amendment did not say that.

People should give up on Elk already. That argument has long been weighed and found wanting.

UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT

U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649, 682 (1898)

The decision in Elk v. Wilkins concerned only members of the Indian tribes within the United States, and had no tendency to deny citizenship to children born in the United States of foreign parents of Caucasian, African or Mongolian descent, not in the diplomatic service of a foreign country. The real object of the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution, in qualifying the words, "All persons born in the United States," by the addition, "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof," would appear to have been to exclude, by the fewest and fittest words, (besides children of members of the Indian tribes, standing in a peculiar relation to the National Government, unknown to the common law,) the two classes of cases — children born of alien enemies in hostile occupation and children of diplomatic representatives of a foreign State — both of which, as has already been shown, by the law of England, and by our own law, from the time of the first settlement of the English colonies in America, had been recognized exceptions to the fundamental rule of citizenship by birth within the country. Calvin's Case, 7 Rep. 1, 18b; Cockburn on Nationality, 7; Dicey Conflict of Laws, 171; Inglis v. Sailors' Snug Harbor, 3 Pet. 99, 155 ; 2 Kent Com. 39, 42.

nolu chan  posted on  2018-11-01   20:55:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: nolu chan (#57)

If you are right America is dead.

There is no other way to stop anchor babies because the will of the congress will never ever amend the constitution again. We are too divided.

Unless you have another way to stop anchor baby? When in America our extreme poverty is middle class for half the world. 3.5 billion people just need a way to get here.

Justified  posted on  2018-11-02   10:52:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: Justified, Vicomte13 (#62)

Unless you have another way to stop anchor baby? When in America our extreme poverty is middle class for half the world. 3.5 billion people just need a way to get here.

An Executive Order is a non-starter. An Amendment is very difficult, and in the current Senate, impossible to get passed.

As a very far outside possibility, perhaps a piece of legislation could be fashioned to remove the jurisdiction of the Court to hear any case brought by an illegal alien or person not lawfully admitted to the United States. Article III, Section 2, Clause 2 states that "In all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, and those in which a state shall be party, the Supreme Court shall have original jurisdiction. In all the other cases before mentioned, the Supreme Court shall have appellate jurisdiction, both as to law and fact, with such exceptions, and under such regulations as the Congress shall make." Congress has the authority to limit the appellate the authority of the Court to hear cases, and it has been done.

See Ex parte McCardle, 74 U.S. 506 (1868) 8-0. Between having heard the case, and before a decision was issued, the Court was stopped dead in its tracks and jurisdiction to decide the case was taken away.

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/74/506/

But be aware that this once used Legislative power may function like Harry Reed using the nuclear option on Court appointments to lower the requirement to a simple majority. McCardle was a civil war era case, and that limiting power is dangerous when its use is acceptable.

A real attack could be fashioned to mandate a national identification card and to impose severe penalties on anyone employing anyone without a valid picture ID Card certifying citizen or alien status, and whether an alien has a right to be employed in the United States. Counterfeit cards could incur severe penalties as well.

Take away illegal employment and they will stop coming.

Where there is a will, there may be a way, but it will not be as easy as issuing an Executive Order.

nolu chan  posted on  2018-11-02   16:19:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: nolu chan (#63)

Constitutional experts agree the fourteenth doesn't grant citizenship to aliens illegally here. Only to former slaves.

That is how you win.

Take it to court.

Yeah I know some other experts disagree.

All the stuff you quoted is like quoting Roberts on Obamacare.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-11-02   16:53:22 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 64.

#66. To: A K A Stone (#64)

That is how you win. Take it to court.

You win if the Supreme Court votes your way.

I'll bet you a steak dinner they won't.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-11-02 17:50:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: A K A Stone (#64)

Constitutional experts agree the fourteenth doesn't grant citizenship to aliens illegally here. Only to former slaves.

That is how you win.

Take it to court.

Yeah I know some other experts disagree.

Right offhand, I can think of nine of them.

This is like advocating for birther arguments.

https://tesibria.typepad.com/whats_your_evidence/BIRTHER%2520CASE%2520LIST.pdf

BIRTHER SCORECARD

Birther arguments went 0-226 at the Trial Court, 0-120 at the Appeals Court, and 0-35 at the U.S. Supreme Court.

I believe all were rejected or dismissed at the pre-trial stage.

nolu chan  posted on  2018-11-02 18:22:22 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: A K A Stone (#64)

Constitutional experts agree the fourteenth doesn't grant citizenship to aliens illegally here. Only to former slaves.

I agree... and I believe Trump knows (inside info), that the 9 sitting USSC justices, would rule that way if the case comes in front of them.

When Ginsburg dies, it’s absolutely GRAVELY IMPERATIVE, that we have Trump or Rand Paul in office. It’s more important that the invention of fire.

GrandIsland  posted on  2018-11-02 18:50:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 64.

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