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New World Order
See other New World Order Articles

Title: Birthright citizenship in the United States
Source: [None]
URL Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth ... tizenship_in_the_United_States
Published: Nov 1, 2018
Author: Food for thought
Post Date: 2018-11-01 11:52:43 by Justified
Keywords: None
Views: 12584
Comments: 80

Current U.S. law

Citizenship in the United States is a matter of federal law, governed by the United States Constitution.

Since the adoption of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution on July 9, 1868, the citizenship of persons born in the United States has been controlled by its Citizenship Clause, which states: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."[10] Statute, by birth within U.S.

United States Federal law (8 U.S.C. § 1401) defines who is a United States citizen from birth. The following are among those listed there as persons who shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:

"
a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" or "
a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe" (see Indian Citizenship Act of 1924). "
a person of unknown parentage found in the United States while under the age of five years, until shown, prior to his attaining the age of twenty-one years, not to have been born in the United States" "
a person born in an outlying possession of the United States of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at any time prior to the birth of such person"

Elk v. Wilkins, 112 U.S. 94 (1884),[1] was a United States Supreme Court case respecting the citizenship status of Indians.

John Elk, a Winnebago Indian, was born on an Indian reservation and later resided with whites on the non-reservation US territory in Omaha, Nebraska, where he renounced his former tribal allegiance and claimed citizenship by virtue of the Citizenship Clause.[2] The case came about after Elk tried to register to vote on April 5, 1880 and was denied by Charles Wilkins, the named defendant, who was registrar of voters of the Fifth ward of the City of Omaha.

The court decided that even though Elk was born in the United States, he was not a citizen because he owed allegiance to his tribe when he was born rather than to the U.S. and therefore was not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States when he was born.

The United States Congress later enacted The Indian Citizenship Act of 1924 which established citizenship for Indians previously excluded by the US Constitution; however no subsequent Supreme Court case has reversed the majority opinion offered on Elk v. Wilkins including the detailed definitions of the terms of the 14th Amendment as written by Justice Gray. The Elk v. Wilkins opinion remains valid for interpretation of future citizenship issues regarding the 14th Amendment, but has been rendered undebatable for its application to native Indians due to the Act of Congress.

Indian Citizenship Act

The Indian Citizenship Act of 1924, also known as the Snyder Act, was proposed by Representative Homer P. Snyder (R) of New York and granted full U.S. citizenship to the indigenous peoples of the United States, called "Indians" in this Act. While the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution defines as citizens any person born in the U.S. and subject to its jurisdiction, the amendment has been interpreted that the Tribes are separate Nations to which an Indian owes allegiance and therefore are not under the jurisdiction of the United States. The act was signed into law by President Calvin Coolidge on June 2, 1924. It was enacted partially in recognition of the thousands of Indians who served in the armed forces during World War I.

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#1. To: Justified, vicomte13 (#0)

This should be a slam dunk case for the Supreme court.

It would be if only Vic wasn't going around raising rats like Ginsburg from the dead.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-11-01   11:54:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: A K A Stone (#1)

It would be if only Vic wasn't going around raising rats like Ginsburg from the dead.

God raised a mouse from the dead. I was merely present.

Not sure what that has to do with Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

The text of the 14th Amendment is clear, and it applies here.

If it goes to the Supreme Court, I expect an 8-1 ruling that Birthright Citizenship is what the 14th Amendment says. Thomas will say no. Roberts, Alito, Kavanaugh will all agree with me. Not sure about Gorsuch, maybe 7-2.

This fight is not going to be won like this. We have to patrol the border and wall it, and enforce existing law to stop illegal immigration. Messing around with the Constitution's plain words is not going to fly - the court, 7-2 at worst, and maybe 9-0, will say that the 14th Amendment's plain English bestows birthright citizenship on illegal aliens, because it does.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-11-01   12:02:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Vicomte13 (#2)

No it doesn't. They are not subjects to our jurisdiction. That is a fact proven by the easy to understand words and the words of the people who wrote the fourteenth amendment. Which has the force of law but truthfully was never lawfully ratified.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-11-01   12:06:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: A K A Stone, Vicomte13 (#3)

No it doesn't. They are not subjects to our jurisdiction.

What jurisdiction was claimed to prosecute the killer of Kate Steinle; said killer being a bona fide illegal alien?

The 14th Amendment speaks to the status of the newborn child, without respect to the parents of the child. The status of the newborn child is not affected by the parents being legal or illegal aliens.

The child, at the time of birth, is in the United States and has never been anywhere else. The child is within the jurisdiction of the United States unless he or she is the child of persons such as officially recognized foreign diplomats or visiting royalty who enjoy immunity from U.S. jurisdiction.

The ratified words of the 14th Amendment are controlling.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.

This was just a pre-election Trump troll.

Trump: I can eliminate birthright citizenship by Executive Order.

Congress: You are a usurper. That's the job of Congress.

Trump: OK, do your job.

As long as the Democrats are talking about Trump, they are not getting out any message of their own.

A SCOTUS vote would likely be 9-0 against.

The plain language meaning of the words of the 14th Amendment cannot be avoided.

nolu chan  posted on  2018-11-01   12:44:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: nolu chan, vicomte13 (#9)

Diplomats are subject to our jurisdiction. Laws can take away their immunity and they are subject to being expelled.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-11-01   12:56:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: A K A Stone, Vicomte13 (#12)

Diplomats are subject to our jurisdiction. Laws can take away their immunity and they are subject to being expelled.

FALSE. They can be expelled. If Kate Steinle's killer had been a recognized diplomat, with diplomatic immunity, he could have been decertified, declared persona non grata and ordered to leave the country, but he could not have been prosecuted.

nolu chan  posted on  2018-11-01   13:27:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: nolu chan (#17)

If they can be expelled they are subject to our jurisdiction at the time they are here.

We can also change our laws anytime to strip their immunity. Correct.me if I'm wrong but I believe diplomatic immunity came after the 14th.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-11-01   13:31:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: A K A Stone (#19)

If they can be expelled they are subject to our jurisdiction at the time they are here.

We can also change our laws anytime to strip their immunity. Correct.me if I'm wrong but I believe diplomatic immunity came after the 14th.

Wrong on all counts. Persons with recognized diplomatic immunity are not subject to our jurisdiction. If the killer of Kate Steinle were a recognized diplomat at the time, he could not have been arrested, detained, and tried for the crime, regardless of the evidence against him. The United States government could advise his government that his recognition as a diplomat was being withdrawn and he had to leave by a specified date.

Diplomatic immunity preceded the Constitution by centuries. Internationally, persons allowed in as diplomats cannot be detained or tried for alleged crimes if they enjoy a grant of immunity.

nolu chan  posted on  2018-11-01   15:06:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: nolu chan (#33)

ersons with recognized diplomatic immunity are not subject to our jurisdiction.

Sure they are. We can expel them from this country. So it is within our right to do that.

We can withdraw from treaties that obligate us to diplomatic immunity if we so choose.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-11-01   15:09:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: A K A Stone (#34)

We can withdraw from treaties that obligate us to diplomatic immunity if we so choose.

And nobody would have diplomats here, and we would not have diplomats anywhere.

If we are to have their diplomats here, or our diplomats there, immunity is just part of the deal. You would essentially break off diplomatic relations with the rest of the world.

We do not expel foreign diplomats in the sense that we arrest them and put them on an outbound flight. We advise the foreign country that their diplomat is no longer welcome and they fly them out.

nolu chan  posted on  2018-11-01   15:37:44 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: nolu chan (#42)

And nobody would have diplomats here, and we would not have diplomats anywhere.

If we are to have their diplomats here, or our diplomats there, immunity is just part of the deal. You would essentially break off diplomatic relations with the rest of the world.

We do not expel foreign diplomats in the sense that we arrest them and put them on an outbound flight. We advise the foreign country that their diplomat is no longer welcome and they fly them out.

They are still subject to our jurisdiction. If they weren't we wouldn't be to tell them to leave. If they weren't subject... We would have to let them stay because we had no jurisdiction over them.

Diplomatic immunity should never include the right to kill our people. If they kill our people they should be punished. If a country doesn't like that deal. We can kill their country.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-11-01   15:47:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: A K A Stone, Nolu Chan (#43)

They are still subject to our jurisdiction.

Respectfully, Stone, you're misunderstanding this word.

"Jursidiction" doesn't mean "subject to power". It means subject to the rulings of a COURT. It's not about executive power, it's about judicial power, about the power of judges to judge you, as a person (in personam jurisdiction), or to issue judgment over a thing (say, a ship) (in rem jurisdiction), or to preside over a case on a specific subject matter (example: family court) (subject matter jurisdiction).

It does not refer to the police power, which is executive branch stuff. It does not refer to the power to make rules, which is legislative branch stuff. It is a very specific legal term that refers to the power of a specific court to judge a case and impose a penalty.

"JURIS" means law. "Diction" refers to speaking. Jurisdiction refers to the power of a judge to pronounce a binding decision at law. Murder is illegal in the USA and everywhere else, but US courts do not have the jurisdiction to try murder cases that happen between two regular Norwegians in Trondheim. It didn't happen on us soil (the location was not subject to US courts), it did not happen between people who could be haled before US Courts (US courts can't judge Norwegians in Norway for things that happen in Norway). The crime committed there is a crime here too, and US cops could certainly arrest the Norwegian culprit who got caught here, if there were an Interpol report or an international warrant. But the district attorney could not bring that murder case before the state court, because the crime didn't happen under US jurisdiction, and the persons involved were not subject to US law when they did it.

On the other hand, a Norwegian traveler killing another Norwegian while in a US airport CAN be tried in US court for the murder, because it occurred on US soil, and whatever happens on US soil is subject to US jurisdiction...unless it happened in the Norwegian embassy (then things get murky and there might be a fight IF Norway wasn't going to hold the killer accountable), or unless the killer was a Norwegian diplomat. Then he could be arrested, but whether or not he could be tried would depend on the terms of our agreement with Norway. Norway could waive diplomatic immunity, and then our courts could try the guy.

Jurisdiction is a legal term with a specific meaning: it refers to the authority of the courts to try a case. Illegal aliens can be tried for anything they do on US soil. Therefore, they are subject to US jurisdiction, full stop. That's what the word means. It doesn't mean subject to arrest, it means subject to trial.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-11-01   16:45:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: Vicomte13, A K A Stone (#47)

"Jursidiction" doesn't mean "subject to power". It means subject to the rulings of a COURT. It's not about executive power, it's about judicial power, about the power of judges to judge you, as a person (in personam jurisdiction), or to issue judgment over a thing (say, a ship) (in rem jurisdiction), or to preside over a case on a specific subject matter (example: family court) (subject matter jurisdiction).

What you said, Vic.

nolu chan  posted on  2018-11-02   2:05:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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