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New World Order
See other New World Order Articles

Title: Birthright citizenship in the United States
Source: [None]
URL Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth ... tizenship_in_the_United_States
Published: Nov 1, 2018
Author: Food for thought
Post Date: 2018-11-01 11:52:43 by Justified
Keywords: None
Views: 9225
Comments: 80

Current U.S. law

Citizenship in the United States is a matter of federal law, governed by the United States Constitution.

Since the adoption of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution on July 9, 1868, the citizenship of persons born in the United States has been controlled by its Citizenship Clause, which states: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."[10] Statute, by birth within U.S.

United States Federal law (8 U.S.C. § 1401) defines who is a United States citizen from birth. The following are among those listed there as persons who shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:

"
a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" or "
a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe" (see Indian Citizenship Act of 1924). "
a person of unknown parentage found in the United States while under the age of five years, until shown, prior to his attaining the age of twenty-one years, not to have been born in the United States" "
a person born in an outlying possession of the United States of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at any time prior to the birth of such person"

Elk v. Wilkins, 112 U.S. 94 (1884),[1] was a United States Supreme Court case respecting the citizenship status of Indians.

John Elk, a Winnebago Indian, was born on an Indian reservation and later resided with whites on the non-reservation US territory in Omaha, Nebraska, where he renounced his former tribal allegiance and claimed citizenship by virtue of the Citizenship Clause.[2] The case came about after Elk tried to register to vote on April 5, 1880 and was denied by Charles Wilkins, the named defendant, who was registrar of voters of the Fifth ward of the City of Omaha.

The court decided that even though Elk was born in the United States, he was not a citizen because he owed allegiance to his tribe when he was born rather than to the U.S. and therefore was not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States when he was born.

The United States Congress later enacted The Indian Citizenship Act of 1924 which established citizenship for Indians previously excluded by the US Constitution; however no subsequent Supreme Court case has reversed the majority opinion offered on Elk v. Wilkins including the detailed definitions of the terms of the 14th Amendment as written by Justice Gray. The Elk v. Wilkins opinion remains valid for interpretation of future citizenship issues regarding the 14th Amendment, but has been rendered undebatable for its application to native Indians due to the Act of Congress.

Indian Citizenship Act

The Indian Citizenship Act of 1924, also known as the Snyder Act, was proposed by Representative Homer P. Snyder (R) of New York and granted full U.S. citizenship to the indigenous peoples of the United States, called "Indians" in this Act. While the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution defines as citizens any person born in the U.S. and subject to its jurisdiction, the amendment has been interpreted that the Tribes are separate Nations to which an Indian owes allegiance and therefore are not under the jurisdiction of the United States. The act was signed into law by President Calvin Coolidge on June 2, 1924. It was enacted partially in recognition of the thousands of Indians who served in the armed forces during World War I.

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#1. To: Justified, vicomte13 (#0)

This should be a slam dunk case for the Supreme court.

It would be if only Vic wasn't going around raising rats like Ginsburg from the dead.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-11-01   11:54:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: A K A Stone (#1)

It would be if only Vic wasn't going around raising rats like Ginsburg from the dead.

God raised a mouse from the dead. I was merely present.

Not sure what that has to do with Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

The text of the 14th Amendment is clear, and it applies here.

If it goes to the Supreme Court, I expect an 8-1 ruling that Birthright Citizenship is what the 14th Amendment says. Thomas will say no. Roberts, Alito, Kavanaugh will all agree with me. Not sure about Gorsuch, maybe 7-2.

This fight is not going to be won like this. We have to patrol the border and wall it, and enforce existing law to stop illegal immigration. Messing around with the Constitution's plain words is not going to fly - the court, 7-2 at worst, and maybe 9-0, will say that the 14th Amendment's plain English bestows birthright citizenship on illegal aliens, because it does.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-11-01   12:02:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Vicomte13 (#2)

No it doesn't. They are not subjects to our jurisdiction. That is a fact proven by the easy to understand words and the words of the people who wrote the fourteenth amendment. Which has the force of law but truthfully was never lawfully ratified.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-11-01   12:06:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: A K A Stone (#3)

No it doesn't. They are not subjects to our jurisdiction. That is a fact proven by the easy to understand words and the words of the people who wrote the fourteenth amendment. Which has the force of law but truthfully was never lawfully ratified.

If you play the game of legislative history, you will sink into the quicksand of the Left.

The states ratified language, not legislative history. The Congress ratified language, not the opinions of individual legislators.

Our law is, and ought to be, based on the language ratified, not based on the opinion of some individual in Congress as to what he wanted the language to mean. Congress didn't ratify him, and neither did they states. Only the language.

The disaster in what you're doing here you don't realize, because you're not a lawyer and have not studied it. The LEFT, not the Right, has used the appeal to legislative history as the basis to make so many of the decisions that you hate. The Right has clamored for years to apply the text as written.

It has been the Left wing judges who have pulled down the Congressional record and found the various things that this liberal Congressman or that liberal Senator said in a speech or wrote and had entered into the record, and clamored just as you are: "SEE, Congress INTENDED thus and so."

Democratic Congressman lard up the Congressional record with statetments and speeches and notes that state their OPINION about the law, and those MERE OPINIONS are then cited by Left wing justices to override the clear language of statutes and allow the Left wing justices to make whatever law they please, because "legislative history" shows the "intent" of Congress.

But it DOESN'T. It shows the OPINION of ONE MAN whose opinion was recorded. Congress didn't vote on that man's opinion, it voted only on the language that it passed. And we all know that Representatives and Senators vote on each bill for their own reasons.

It's a tactic of the LEFT to record opinions of individual legislators, and then have judges pull out those opinions and claim that those individual opinions were the intent of Congress.

The Right has always resisted that, insisting that what the statute says is the law.

Now, to try to get an easy win on immigration (that you will not get, because the Supreme Court will never agree with that horse-shit argument), you're ready to throw away 80 years of principles conservative resistance to allowing the opinions of individual politicians to be used by liberal judges to steamroller the language of statutes.

It's a terrible tactical choice, because it will not prevail before the justices of the Supreme Court.

Strategically, it's a disaster, because it concedes that the Left was always right in taking the opinions of some politicians, rammed into the record, and making that what the Constitution "means".

"Subject to jurisdiction" means: can the courts try you. Diplomats? No immune. So their kids aren't citizens. Indians on reservation? No. Illegals? Yes. Their kids are citizens.

If you've got to do Pickett's Charge into the guns, the Charge of the Light Brigade, just remember how that ended up for Pickett's Divison and the Light Brigade.

With the Light Brigade, the only reason any of them survived was because a French battery of guns on an adjacent hill saw what was happening and disobeyed orders to engage the Russians in direct counterbattery fire, giving the surviving Brits the chance to escape with their lives.

That's me: the French battery on the hill watching this disaster unfold, and trying to give you the cover to get out before you charge into the guns to your doom.

You cannot win this fight on this grounds. It won't work. And if it DOES work, you will have given away the farm to get an apple.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-11-01   12:23:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Vicomte13, A K A Stone (#6)

The states ratified language, not legislative history. The Congress ratified language, not the opinions of individual legislators.

Exactly.

Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649, 699 (1898), Gray J.

Doubtless, the intention of the Congress which framed and of the States which adopted this Amendment of the Constitution must be sought in the words of the Amendment; and the debates in Congress are not admissible as evidence to control the meaning of those words. But the statements above quoted are valuable as contemporaneous opinions of jurists and statesmen upon the legal meaning of the words themselves, and are, at the least, interesting as showing that the application of the Amendment to the Chinese race was considered, and not overlooked.
Downes v. Bidwell, 182 US 244, 254 (1901), Brown J.

The arguments of individual legislators are no proper subject for judicial comment. They are so often influenced by personal or political considerations, or by the assumed necessities of the situation, that they can hardly be considered even as the deliberate views of the persons who make them, much less as dictating the construction to be put upon the Constitution by the courts.

United States v. Trans-Missouri Freight Association, 166 U. S. 290; 318-319, Peckham J.

Looking simply at the history of the bill from the time it was introduced in the Senate until it was finally passed, it would be impossible to say what were the views of a majority of the members of each House in relation to the meaning of the Act. It cannot be said that a majority of both houses did not agree with Senator Hoar in his views as to the construction to be given to the Act as it passed the Senate. All that can be determined from the debates and reports is that various members had various views, and we are left to determine the meaning of this act, as we determine the meaning of other acts. from the language used therein.

There is, too, a general acquiescence in the doctrine that debates in Congress are not appropriate sources of information from which to discover the meaning of the language of a statute passed by that body. United States v. Union Pacific R. Co., 91 U. S. 72, 91 U. S. 79; Aldridge v. Williams, 3 How. 9, 44 U. S. 24, Taney, Chief Justice; Mitchell v. Manufacturing Co., 2 Story 648, 653; Queen v. Hertford College, 3 Q.B.D. 693, 707.

The reason is that it is impossible to determine with certainty what construction was put upon an act by the members of a legislative body that passed it by resorting to the speeches of individual members thereof. Those who did not speak may not have agreed with those who did, and those who spoke might differ from each other, the result being that the only proper way to construe a legislative act is from the language used in the act, and, upon occasion, by a resort to the history of the times when it was passed. (Cases cited supra.)

United States v. St. Paul, M. & MR Co., 247 US 310, 318 (1918), Pitney, J.

It is not our purpose to relax the rule that debates in Congress are not appropriate or even reliable guides to the meaning of the language of an enactment.

Duplex Printing Press Co. v. Deering, 254 U.S. 443, 474 (1921), Pitney J.

By repeated decisions of this court, it has come to be well established that the debates in Congress expressive of the views and motives of individual members are not a safe guide, and hence may not be resorted to, in ascertaining the meaning and purpose of the lawmaking body. Aldridge v. Williams, 3 How. 9, 44 U. S. 24; United States v. Union Pacific R. R. Co., 91 U. S. 72, 91 U. S. 79; United States v. Freight Association, 166 U. S. 290, 166 U. S. 318.

Chrysler Corp. v. Brown, 441 US 281, 311 (1979), Rehnquist, J.

The remarks of a single legislator, even the sponsor, are not controlling in analyzing legislative history. Congressman Moss' statement must be considered with the Reports of both Houses and the statements of other Congressmen…

Aldridge v. Williams, 44 U.S. 9, 24 (1845), Taney CJ

In expounding this law, the judgment of the Court cannot in any degree be influenced by the construction placed upon it by individual members of Congress in the debate which took place on its passage nor by the motives or reasons assigned by them for supporting or opposing amendments that were offered. The law as it passed is the will of the majority of both houses, and the only mode in which that will is spoken is in the act itself, and we must gather their intention from the language there used, comparing it, when any ambiguity exists, with the laws upon the same subject and looking, if necessary, to the public history of the times in which it was passed.
Conroy v. Aniskoff, 507 US 511, 519 (1993), Scalia, J., concurring

The greatest defect of legislative history is its illegitimacy.

We are governed by laws, not by the intentions of legislators. As the Court said in 1844: "The law as it passed is the will of the majority of both houses, and the only mode in which that will is spoken is in the act itself...." Aldridge v. Williams, 3 How. 9, 24 (emphasis added). But not the least of the defects of legislative history is its indeterminacy. If one were to search for an interpretive technique that, on the whole, was more likely to confuse than to clarify, one could hardly find a more promising candidate than legislative history. And the present case nicely proves that point.

Judge Harold Leventhal used to describe the use of legislative history as the equivalent of entering a crowded cocktail party and looking over the heads of the guests for one's friends.

nolu chan  posted on  2018-11-01   13:05:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: nolu chan (#13) (Edited)

Okay some courts offered some opinions but that's all they are is opinions. There's good points in those opinions ill admit that. The opinions expressed during those debates match the language in my opinion. It's absurd to think that they were talking about foreigners invading us

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-11-01   13:10:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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