[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Mail]  [Sign-in]  [Setup]  [Help]  [Register] 

"Pete Hegseth Is Right for the DOD"

"Why Our Constitution Secures Liberty, Not Democracy"

Woodworking and Construction Hacks

"CNN: Reporters Were Crying and Hugging in the Hallways After Learning of Matt Gaetz's AG Nomination"

"NEW: Democrat Officials Move to Steal the Senate Race in Pennsylvania, Admit to Breaking the Law"

"Pete Hegseth Is a Disruptive Choice for Secretary of Defense. That’s a Good Thing"

Katie Britt will vote with the McConnell machine

Battle for Senate leader heats up — Hit pieces coming from Thune and Cornyn.

After Trump’s Victory, There Can Be No Unity Without A Reckoning

Vivek Ramaswamy, Dark-horse Secretary of State Candidate

Megyn Kelly has a message for Democrats. Wait for the ending.

Trump to choose Tom Homan as his “Border Czar”

"Trump Shows Demography Isn’t Destiny"

"Democrats Get a Wake-Up Call about How Unpopular Their Agenda Really Is"

Live Election Map with ticker shows every winner.

Megyn Kelly Joins Trump at His Final PA Rally of 2024 and Explains Why She's Supporting Him

South Carolina Lawmaker at Trump Rally Highlights Story of 3-Year-Old Maddie Hines, Killed by Illegal Alien

GOP Demands Biden, Harris Launch Probe into Twice-Deported Illegal Alien Accused of Killing Grayson Davis

Previously-Deported Illegal Charged With Killing Arkansas Children’s Hospital Nurse in Horror DUI Crash

New Data on Migrant Crime Rates Raises Eyebrows, Alarms

Thousands of 'potentially fraudulent voter registration applications' Uncovered, Stopped in Pennsylvania

Michigan Will Count Ballot of Chinese National Charged with Voting Illegally

"It Did Occur" - Kentucky County Clerk Confirms Voting Booth 'Glitch'' Shifted Trump Votes To Kamala

Legendary Astronaut Buzz Aldrin 'wholeheartedly' Endorses Donald Trump

Liberal Icon Naomi Wolf Endorses Trump: 'He's Being More Inclusive'

(Washed Up Has Been) Singer Joni Mitchell Screams 'F*** Trump' at Hollywood Bowl

"Analysis: The Final State of the Presidential Race"

He’ll, You Pieces of Garbage

The Future of Warfare -- No more martyrdom!

"Kamala’s Inane Talking Points"

"The Harris Campaign Is Testament to the Toxicity of Woke Politics"

Easy Drywall Patch

Israel Preparing NEW Iran Strike? Iran Vows “Unimaginable” Response | Watchman Newscast

In Logansport, Indiana, Kids are Being Pushed Out of Schools After Migrants Swelled County’s Population by 30%: "Everybody else is falling behind"

Exclusive — Bernie Moreno: We Spend $110,000 Per Illegal Migrant Per Year, More than Twice What ‘the Average American Makes’

Florida County: 41 of 45 People Arrested for Looting after Hurricanes Helene and Milton are Noncitizens

Presidential race: Is a Split Ticket the only Answer?

hurricanes and heat waves are Worse

'Backbone of Iran's missile industry' destroyed by IAF strikes on Islamic Republic

Joe Rogan Experience #2219 - Donald Trump

IDF raids Hezbollah Radwan Forces underground bases, discovers massive cache of weapons

Gallant: ‘After we strike in Iran,’ the world will understand all of our training

The Atlantic Hit Piece On Trump Is A Psy-Op To Justify Post-Election Violence If Harris Loses

Six Al Jazeera journalists are Hamas, PIJ terrorists

Judge Aileen Cannon, who tossed Trump's classified docs case, on list of proposed candidates for attorney general

Iran's Assassination Program in Europe: Europe Goes Back to Sleep

Susan Olsen says Brady Bunch revival was cancelled because she’s MAGA.

Foreign Invaders crisis cost $150B in 2023, forcing some areas to cut police and fire services: report

Israel kills head of Hezbollah Intelligence.

Tenn. AG reveals ICE released thousands of ‘murderers and rapists’ from detention centers into US streets


Status: Not Logged In; Sign In

Bang / Guns
See other Bang / Guns Articles

Title: Trump Announces He’s a Few Weeks From Banning Bump Stocks
Source: From The Trenches/10th Amendment Center
URL Source: http://fromthetrenchesworldreport.c ... rom-banning-bump-stocks/235057
Published: Oct 19, 2018
Author: Joe Wolverton, II
Post Date: 2018-10-20 14:17:05 by Deckard
Keywords: None
Views: 23532
Comments: 148

Tenth Amendment Center – by Joe Wolverton, II

President Donald Trump promises that he is “just a few weeks” from issuing regulations that would outlaw bump fire stocks.

“We’re knocking out bump stocks,” Trump said at a White House news conference on October 1. “We’re in the final two or three weeks, and I’ll be able to write out bump stocks.”  

This Republican president’s promise to “write out” bump fire stocks sounds suspiciously like his Democratic predecessor’s claim to possess the power to use his phone and pen to make law.

“I’ve got a pen and I’ve got a phone,” Barack Obama proclaimed in 2014. “And I can use that pen to sign executive orders and take executive actions and administrative actions,” he added.

This two-party, one policy situation is decades old. Regarding the presidential penchant for disarming the American people, I am reminded of a story I wrote in January 2014:

“In an executive ‘Fact Sheet’ issued January 3 by the White House, the president purports to establish new guidelines for “keep[ing] Guns out of Potentially Dangerous Hands.”

NOTE: Originally published at The New American Magazine and reposted here with permission from the author.

The next paragraph of that story can now be applied to both President Obama and President Trump:

“What President Obama — a former part-time law professor — seems not to understand is that every time he issues some executive order, presidential finding, or ‘fact sheet,’ he is exceeding the constitutional limits on his power and thereby violating his oath of office.”

All you need to do is change the last name of the president and change the words “fact sheet” to “memorandum” and the story is no different.

President Trump is exercising that same unconstitutional “authority” to infringe significantly on the rights protected by the Second Amendment, specifically, the right to “keep and bear arms.”

Trump’s attack on the Second Amendment in the form of banning bump fire stocks should come as no surprise.

In fact, back in February the president issued an official memorandum ordering the Department of Justice “to dedicate all available resources to complete the review of the comments received, and, as expeditiously as possible, to propose for notice and comment a rule banning all devices that turn legal weapons into machineguns.” Lest there be any misunderstanding, the memo identifies the device in question as “bump fire stocks and similar devices.”

For those of you counting on the National Rifle Association (NRA) to come to the defense of the Second Amendment, you probably don’t want to read any further.

The NRA released the following statement regarding federal regulation of bump fire stocks:

The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations.

So, no help from the NRA for Americans who believed the group to be defenders of the Second Amendment.

Of course, such a statement isn’t surprising considering that the very same press release reveals that the NRA doesn’t understand the purpose of the Second Amendment.

“In an increasingly dangerous world, the NRA remains focused on our mission: strengthening Americans’ Second Amendment freedom to defend themselves, their families and their communities,” the statement reads.

Wrong.

Our Founding Fathers were not concerned about protecting a man’s right to keep his home and family safe from “danger.” Our Founding Fathers protected the individual’s right to keep and bear arms because they knew that such was the only way to avoid being enslaved by tyrants.

They knew from their study of history that a tyrant’s first move was always to disarm the people, and generally to claim it was for their safety, and to establish a standing army so as to convince the people that they didn’t need arms to protect themselves, for the tyrant and his professional soldiers would do it for them. Sound familiar?

Consider this gem from William Blackstone, a man of immense and undeniable influence on the Founders and their understanding of rights, civil and natural.

In Volume I of his Commentaries on the Laws of England, Blackstone declares “the natural right of resistance and self-preservation, when the sanctions of society and laws are found insufficient to restrain the violence of oppression.”

Would anyone in America — or the world, for that matter — argue that the “sanctions of society and laws” are sufficient to “restrain violence” or oppression?

Thus, the people must be armed.

Commenting on Blackstone’s Commentaries, eminent Founding Era jurist and constitutional scholar St. George Tucker put a finer point on the purpose of protecting the natural right of all people to keep and bear arms. He wrote:

This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty…. The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction.

Enough said.

As for President Trump, he has done many things consistent with his solemn oath to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution. His issuing of a regulation to shrink the scope of the Second Amendment is not one of them, however.

It’s this easy: Article I, Section 1 of the Constitution grants federal lawmaking power exclusively to the Congress.

Regardless of the word he uses to describe it, any time the president orders the executive branch to create law by executive decree, he is usurping the authority of the legislature.

Finally, in his memo, President Trump writes that he was motivated to begin the process of banning bump fire stocks “after the deadly mass murder in Las Vegas, Nevada, on October 1, 2017.”

No matter how many people are clamoring for protection, no matter how many madmen go on murderous sprees, the president is not constitutionally authorized to take “executive actions” that encroach upon rights protected by the Constitution — in this case, the right of the people to keep and bear arms.

Apart from his work as a journalist, Joe Wolverton, II is a professor of American Government at Chattanooga State and was a practicing attorney until 2009. He lives in Chattanooga, Tennessee. Since 2000, Joe has been a featured contributor to The New American magazine. Most recently, he has written a cover story article on the Tea Party movement, as well as a five-part series on the unconstitutionality of Obamacare.

Tenth Amendment Center

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 145.

#36. To: Deckard (#0)

Bump stocks effectively turn a semi-automatic weapon into an automatic weapon. Machine guns have been illegal since the 1920s. A clever person found a clever way to make a machine gun. Of course that can be regulated to nothing.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-10-21   20:26:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: Vicomte13 (#36)

Machine guns have been illegal since the 1920s.

No,they haven't. It would be un-Constitutional to ban them,so the goobermint came up with a permit system called a "Class 3 Licence" to buy,own,or possess full-auto weapons and "weapons of mass destruction".

You have to fill out feral papers and have them approved by your local Chief of Police or Sheriff,and he has to send them off to the feral government. I forget now how much the "tax stamp" costs for each weapon these days,but IIRC,it was 300 bucks back in the 30's when this un-Constitutional insanity started,and that was a massive amount of money at that time.

The fee remained at that level until Bubba and a DIM Congress managed to achieve a run-around the Constitution by the simple method of destroying every surplus Class 3 weapon in their inventory. This in effect is a ban because there are no longer any more surplus full-auto weapons to be released,and this means the price for something simple like a M3 Greasegun that used to be available for 400-500 bucks is now several thousand bucks,and getting more expensive every day.

Bubba even had surplus weapons we gave to other nations confiscated and destroyed or put out of reach by dumping them in the deep ocean. I personally knew people who told me that what looked like brand new BAR's,Thompsons,M-2 Carbines,M3s,and M-14's were taken out to sea and dumped with BATF agents supervising and writing down the serial numbers.

No problem for Bubba and his bodyguards because the government provides full auto weapons to guard him and his family,and no real problem for his golf partners,because it is chump change to them.

There is no longer any practical way for a blue-collar worker to legally own one because he just can't afford it.

sneakypete  posted on  2018-10-23   19:36:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: sneakypete, Vicomte13 (#45)

[Vicomte13 #36] Machine guns have been illegal since the 1920s.

[sneakypete #45] No,they haven't. It would be un-Constitutional to ban them,so the goobermint came up with a permit system called a "Class 3 Licence" to buy,own,or possess full-auto weapons and "weapons of mass destruction".

[sneakypete #46] That's because you don't know WTF you are talking about. These are THE very weapons the Second Amendment was written to protect.

The Second Amendment protects those weapons typically possessed by law-abiding citizens for lawful purposes. Your position that a ban of machineguns would be unconstitutional is explicitly overruled by the U.S. Supreme Court in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570, 624-25 (2008).

We may as well consider at this point (for we will have to consider eventually) what types of weapons Miller permits. Read in isolation, Miller’s phrase “part of ordinary military equipment” could mean that only those weapons useful in warfare are protected. That would be a startling reading of the opinion, since it would mean that the National Firearms Act’s restrictions on machineguns (not challenged in Miller) might be unconstitutional, machineguns being useful in warfare in 1939. We think that Miller’s “ordinary military equipment” language must be read in tandem with what comes after: “[O]rdinarily when called for [militia] service [able-bodied] men were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of the kind in common use at the time.” 307 U. S., at 179. The traditional militia was formed from a pool of men bringing arms “in common use at the time” for lawful purposes like self-defense. “In the colonial and revolutionary war era, [small-arms] weapons used by militiamen and weapons used in defense of person and home were one and the same.” State v. Kessler, 289 Ore. 359, 368, 614 P. 2d 94, 98 (1980) (citing G. Neumann, Swords and Blades of the American Revolution 6–15, 252–254 (1973)). Indeed, that is precisely the way in which the Second Amendment’s operative clause furthers the purpose announced in its preface. We therefore read Miller to say only that the Second Amendment does not protect those weapons not typically possessed by law-abiding citizens for lawful purposes, such as short-barreled shotguns. That accords with the historical understanding of the scope of the right, see Part III, infra.

nolu chan  posted on  2018-10-23   22:25:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: nolu chan (#55)

The Second Amendment protects those weapons typically possessed by law-abiding citizens for lawful purposes. Your position that a ban of machineguns would be unconstitutional is explicitly overruled by the U.S. Supreme Court in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570, 624-25 (2008).

Heller is not only wrong,it is un-Constitutional. It was a anti-gun brain fart ran though a cherry-picked anti-gun district court in Washington,DC.

That would be a startling reading of the opinion, since it would mean that the National Firearms Act’s restrictions on machineguns (not challenged in Miller) might be unconstitutional, machineguns being useful in warfare in 1939.

Machine guns were first issued to US troops in the 1800's,and this just goes to show you how freaking ignorant of reality the DC court was and is.

. We therefore read Miller to say only that the Second Amendment does not protect those weapons not typically possessed by law-abiding citizens for lawful purposes, such as short-barreled shotguns.

Legalize mumbo-jumbo bullshit with NO historical fact behind it. There were NO legal restrictions on weapons before the 1930's,and in FACT you could order a machine gun from a Sears catalog if you wanted. That communist bastard Roosevelt and his commie wife-cousin were behind this.

This is a PERFECT example of our courts using their power to break the laws themselves. The only reason these laws still stand is because no court that has the authority to overrule them is ever allowed to take the case.

sneakypete  posted on  2018-10-23   23:57:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: sneakypete (#62)

Machine guns were first issued to US troops in the 1800's,and this just goes to show you how freaking ignorant of reality the DC court was and is.

Reading the laws would show you just how ignorant of the law you are. When machineguns were first issued to U.S. troops is irrelevant. "The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home."

nolu chan  posted on  2018-10-24   1:09:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: nolu chan (#67)

Reading the laws would show you just how ignorant of the law you are. When machineguns were first issued to U.S. troops is irrelevant. "The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home."

Once again,you are quoting left-wing commie judges,NOT the 2nd Amendment.

You just LOVE following orders,don't you?

sneakypete  posted on  2018-10-24   15:37:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: sneakypete (#81)

Once again,you are quoting left-wing commie judges,NOT the 2nd Amendment.

Once again you are putting your ignorance of the law on display.

nolu chan  posted on  2018-10-24   16:20:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: nolu chan (#88)

Once again you are putting your ignorance of the law on display.

That would be you doing that,Bubba. "The Law" is a flexible thing,able to be changed by any fool or group of fools in power at any given time.

Changing the US Constitution is a little more involved. It takes decades of robots like you working diligently in the background to change it,and even then it's not a sure thing you would get away with it.

"The People" are the ultimate rulers of this land,not as bunch of punk ass whore lawyers.

sneakypete  posted on  2018-10-24   16:23:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: sneakypete (#90)

"The Law" is a flexible thing,able to be changed by any fool or group of fools in power at any given time.

As you are demonstrably an old fool, show me how you, on your own, change the law.

You can blog any damfool thing you want and it changes nothing.

"The People" are the ultimate rulers of this land,not as bunch of punk ass whore lawyers.

The truly ignorant people, such as yourself, who proclaim that their cranky stupid demented ideas displace the constitutional interpretations of the U.S. Supreme Court, barely rule the wild imaginations of their own delusional mind.

When the Court ruled that abortion was a right, that became the law in all 50 states.

When the Court ruled that same sex marriage was lawful, that became the law in all 50 states.

When and if the Court decides to rule differently, whatever they rule will be the law.

This is true, your absurd bleatings to the contrary notwithstanding.

When your absurdities meet reality, reality prevails.

nolu chan  posted on  2018-10-24   16:39:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: nolu chan (#92)

Blah,blah,blah.More anal rantings from a human machine.

sneakypete  posted on  2018-10-24   19:40:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#101. To: sneakypete (#98)

Blah,blah,blah.More anal rantings from a human machine.

That's what happens when your jackass absurdities meet reality and you have no answer.

Pathetic. Try again.

As you are demonstrably an old fool, show me how you, on your own, change the law.

You can blog any damfool thing you want and it changes nothing.

"The People" are the ultimate rulers of this land,not as bunch of punk ass whore lawyers.

The truly ignorant people, such as yourself, who proclaim that their cranky stupid demented ideas displace the constitutional interpretations of the U.S. Supreme Court, barely rule the wild imaginations of their own delusional mind.

When the Court ruled that abortion was a right, that became the law in all 50 states.

When the Court ruled that same sex marriage was lawful, that became the law in all 50 states.

When and if the Court decides to rule differently, whatever they rule will be the law.

This is true, your absurd bleatings to the contrary notwithstanding.

When your absurdities meet reality, reality prevails.

nolu chan  posted on  2018-10-24   19:49:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#106. To: nolu chan (#101)

Your love of being pimped out by judges just becomes more obvious with every post you make.

sneakypete  posted on  2018-10-24   20:36:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#112. To: sneakypete (#106)

Your love of being pimped out by judges just becomes more obvious with every post you make.

Your fear of a judge sentencing you to sharing a cell with Bubba precludes your practicing the bullshit you make believe blog about.

You know what the law is. You just don't like it and act out on the internet. Your acting out does not change the law. You are not going to obtain or assemble a nice shiny new M-16 and flaunt it.

What a pathetic joke.

nolu chan  posted on  2018-10-24   22:54:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#126. To: nolu chan (#112) (Edited)

You are not going to obtain or assemble a nice shiny new M-16 and flaunt it.

No,I am not,but only because I don't want one.

I could if I wanted,though.

Legally.

sneakypete  posted on  2018-10-25   11:10:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#131. To: sneakypete (#126)

You are not going to obtain or assemble a nice shiny new M-16 and flaunt it.

No,I am not,but only because I don't want one.

I could if I wanted,though.

Legally.

Suuuuure, you could.

https://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=57557

Decorated Silver Star Veteran, POW Sentenced to 7 Years for a Gun He Bought 40 Years Ago

You can't register a shiny new M-16, and you go to prison if caught with your unregistered shiny new M-16.

There is no civilian lawful ownership of a machine gun made after 1986.

Except for you, of course. The law does not apply to you.

nolu chan  posted on  2018-10-25   13:15:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#134. To: nolu chan (#131)

You can't register a shiny new M-16, and you go to prison if caught with your unregistered shiny new M-16.

There is no civilian lawful ownership of a machine gun made after 1986.

Except for you, of course. The law does not apply to you.

So intelligent,but like your namesake on teebee,you don't have enough common sense to pour piss out of a boot.

If you have the money,somebody will have a brand-new,never first,bright and shiny M-16 that is registered,but never sold.

sneakypete  posted on  2018-10-25   18:28:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#135. To: sneakypete (#134)

If you have the money,somebody will have a brand-new,never first,bright and shiny M-16 that is registered,but never sold.

Yep, a brand new, 32-year old (minimum) rifle.

Definitely never first.

nolu chan  posted on  2018-10-25   19:08:07 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#136. To: nolu chan (#135)

Yep, a brand new, 32-year old (minimum) rifle.

Definitely never first.

That just shows how little you know about firearms and the people who collect them.

sneakypete  posted on  2018-10-25   19:29:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#137. To: sneakypete (#136)

[nolu chan #131] You can't register a shiny new M-16, and you go to prison if caught with your unregistered shiny new M-16.

There is no civilian lawful ownership of a machine gun made after 1986.

Except for you, of course. The law does not apply to you.

- - - - - - - - - -

[sneakypete #134] So intelligent,but like your namesake on teebee,you don't have enough common sense to pour piss out of a boot.

If you have the money,somebody will have a brand-new,never first,bright and shiny M-16 that is registered,but never sold.

[sneakypete #136] That just shows how little you know about firearms and the people who collect them.

You bleat on endlessly about how the law is unconstitutional and you do not have to comply with it, you only have to ask your local sheriff.

Now you check the boxes to comply with every last jot and tiddle of the law, to include buying a 32+ year old gun, and you say that is buying a brand new shiny M-16. It just goes to show how full of shit you really are.

Good luck with getting aa actual, real, brand new, shiny M-16.

https://floridaarmory.com/How-to-purchase-class-III.html

How to Purchase Class III NFA Weapons in the State of Florida

Did you know that owning a suppressor (silencer), machinegun, short barreled rifle or shotgun is legal in the state of Florida? You just need to go through the proper channels. At Florida Armory Gun Shop, we handle all the details for you. Here are some basic requirements necessary to purchase & own a Class III / NFA weapon:

*You must have a clean record, with no felonies

*You must be at least 21 years of age

*You must reside in the state of Florida

*You must have a valid identification issued by the state of Florida

* In the state of Florida, you must have a Trust, Corporation or CLEO (Chief Law Enforcement Officer) Approval Signature. Ask us for more information about those options.

Class III / NFA weapons such as suppressors, machineguns, short barreled rifles or shotguns & destructive devices carry a $200 tax. AOWs carry a $5 tax. This tax is payable when we send out your Form 4 to the NFA. The NFA Branch will take anywhere from 3-5 months to process and return your application with the $200 or $5 tax stamp. Once that arrives at our store, your weapon is ready to go home with you. Just come in to the store, pass a background check and your set to go!

And, just for the heck of it,

https://www.quora.com/In-America-is-it-legal-for-a-civilian-to-own-an-M16

Tim Gordon

Answered Nov 16 2017 · Author has 2.4k answers and 2.8m answer views

In America, is it legal for a civilian to own an M16?

It’s doubtful, depending on several things.

The major one is what state you live in. Some of them do not permit firearms required to be registered and taxed under the National Firearms Act to be owned by members of the general public.

Assuming that you do live in a state that allows NFA firearms, the next consideration is the M16 itself. As in US Rifle, caliber 5.56mm, M16. Note that ‘M16’ is an official US government designation for a rifle that it purchases and issues to members of its armed forces on an as-needed basis. That means that an actual M16 is US government property. If you have an real M16, that begs the question, “where did you get it from?” I personally know of no instances where M16 rifles were sold as surplus. They didn’t even do that with M14 rifles! A number of M16 rifles have been provided to other nations as military aid, but they cannot be lawfully imported into the US, and that is assuming that the rifles in question do not still belong to the US government. Quite often, that is the case and those rifles are expected to be eventually returned. In most instances, if a civilian possesses a real M16, it is stolen property. That is, in and of itself, illegal.

The rifles described in the preceding paragraph are military models that Colt Industries internally identified using a three digit model number, starting with the Model 601, which identifies Colt produced copies of the original ArmaLite AR-15. Very few of these would have ever been sold into civilian ownership. Any receiver that is stamped as an ‘M16’ likely has an interesting story behind it…

Colt civilian AR-15 models were autoloaders and appeared with the release of the Model R6000, more commonly known as the AR-15 SP1 ‘Sporter’ in 1964. Of the 20,000 or so ostensible ‘M16’s on the National Firearms Act Registry, a large number - probably a vast majority, in fact - are actually lawful conversions of Colt civilian AR-15 (identified by a four digit number) model lower receivers that were registered before May 19, 1986 and are thus transferable. Factory select-fire rifles were available from several manufacturers between 1977 when Colt’s patent on the AR-15 expired and 1986, but ran two to three times the cost of a regular autoloader, not counting the NFA tax and headaches, and few sold. Select fire Colt AR-15’s were available, even if not listed in the catalog, but similarly costly and unless you were buying for a governmental entity, you probably had to be a very special friend of someone important at Colt or one of its distributors.

The law refers to these as ‘M16’ rifles, but they are still just select-fire AR-15’s if they were never property of the US Department of Defense.

- - - - - - - - - -

Jeff Carlisle-Tierno, Type 1 FFL dealer with a gunsmithing business

Answered Mar 29

Yes and no.

It is an M16 IF it was built to the specifications proscribed by the Department of Defense AND built under a contract to produce M16s. M16 is a military nomenclature, not one which belongs to Colt Firearms.

In order to be able to legally own a US-made full auto in the United States, it has to have been manufactured and NFA registered prior to the implementation of the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986. To the best of my knowledge, no M16 rifle has been released for sale on the civilian market, and I don’t really see the same DoD which prevented the M14s from being released into the NFA market allowing it.

That being said, you CAN own the exact same rifle, except it will say “AR-15” on the receiver, rather than M16. The AR-15 is a family of firearms, which includes both select fire and semi auto only variants.

So the typical NFA tax stamp holder cannot, but they can own a rifle which for all practical purposes is identical.

Now that’s not to say that an M16 can’t be in civilian hands in the US - many of those rifles were sold or given to law enforcement agencies. While a number of the terms of use indicated that they must returned to the DoD upon completion of use, that isn’t always the case. In those instances, police departments can transfer them to NFA dealers, who are civilians. They can rent them out for use on firing ranges, transfer them to other NFA dealers, or sell them to other agencies which are authorized the use of such weapons (e.g., law enforcement agencies). They cannot be sold to civilians purchasing on the NFA retail market.

nolu chan  posted on  2018-10-25   21:32:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#140. To: nolu chan (#137)

I personally know of no instances where M16 rifles were sold as surplus.

Me either,but that doesn't mean it never happened.

I DO know of instances where they were just GIVEN to local police departments,though.

Who knows what is going to happen to them once the local PD's declare them as surplus?

I would be willing to bet some will get sold to local cops,and knowing cops,some will end up just getting "lost".

sneakypete  posted on  2018-10-29   12:19:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#141. To: sneakypete (#140)

[Jeff Carlisle-Tierno, Type 1 FFL dealer with a gunsmithing business] I personally know of no instances where M16 rifles were sold as surplus.

Me either,but that doesn't mean it never happened.

True dat. It just means that no one seems to know of an example of it happening.

I would be willing to bet some will get sold to local cops,and knowing cops,some will end up just getting "lost".

Such a weapon may get lost, but it will not find its way into your lawful possession.

There is the fact the that if you attempt to register the unlawful weapon, the serial number will have the BATF visiting you to confiscate the weapon and charge you with unlawful possession.

[Jeff Carlisle-Tierno, Type 1 FFL dealer with a gunsmithing business] Now that’s not to say that an M16 can’t be in civilian hands in the US - many of those rifles were sold or given to law enforcement agencies. While a number of the terms of use indicated that they must returned to the DoD upon completion of use, that isn’t always the case. In those instances, police departments can transfer them to NFA dealers, who are civilians. They can rent them out for use on firing ranges, transfer them to other NFA dealers, or sell them to other agencies which are authorized the use of such weapons (e.g., law enforcement agencies). They cannot be sold to civilians purchasing on the NFA retail market.

An FFL dealer cannot lawfully sell a real brand new M-16 to you, nor can you lawfully buy one. If you manage to acquire one unlawfully, you cannot register it. You can hope nobody finds out about it, or you may join Alfred Pick.

nolu chan  posted on  2018-10-29   14:29:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#142. To: nolu chan (#141)

An FFL dealer cannot lawfully sell a real brand new M-16 to you, nor can you lawfully buy one. If you manage to acquire one unlawfully, you cannot register it. You can hope nobody finds out about it, or you may join Alfred Pick.

BTW,you have a tendency to get too tied up in too many technicalities. Things like the term "M-16",for example.

When I was first assigned to the Special Warfare Center at Bragg in 1964,I was issued an Armalite AR-15. Those were the letters stramped right on the receiver. Me,you,anyone else with the money at the time could go to any gun shop in the country and buy a AR-15 right across the counter. No waiting time,no permits,nothing but cash required.

The difference was the AR-15 issued to me by the Army had a selective fire switch and full-auto was one of the selections. The AR-15 you could buy for cash in a gun shop did not have a selective fire switch. It was strictly semi-auto.

Yet both WERE Armalite AR-15's. IIRC,they had the triangular handguards,and no forward bolt assist. They also had a slower twist rate in the barrel,which caused the rounds to "tumble" and "keyhole".

BUT......,once again,they were BOTH Armalite AR-15's.

sneakypete  posted on  2018-10-30   22:46:07 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#143. To: sneakypete (#142)

The AR-15 you could buy for cash in a gun shop did not have a selective fire switch. It was strictly semi-auto.

The one you could buy for cash in a gun shop did not, and legally could not, meet MILSPEC for an M-16.

As part of the M-16 MILSPEC, the fire control selector has three positions, safe, semi-automatic, and burst. What does not conform is not an M-16.

3.3.2.3 Fire control selector. The fire control shall have three positions; safe, semi-automatic and burst and shall rotate manually without binding from one position to another when the hammer is cocked.

- - - - - - - - - -

[sneakypete #134] So intelligent,but like your namesake on teebee,you don't have enough common sense to pour piss out of a boot. If you have the money,somebody will have a brand-new,never first,bright and shiny M-16 that is registered,but never sold.

The 2nd Amendment still gives you the right to own such weapons as are lawful to possess. The government continues to establish what weapons are lawful, or unlawful, to possess. The M-16, as well all other weapons unlawful to possess (such as a full-auto AR-15), continue to be outside the 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms. What the Government issues to you as a soldier on active duty has nothing to do with your 2nd Amendment civilian right to keep and bear arms.

Your unfounded claim that you have a constitutional right to own an M-16 remains unfounded. You can't lawfully buy one, you can't register one, and if caught in illegal possession of one, you can go to prison. As a technicality, you can have a cellmate named Bubba.

nolu chan  posted on  2018-10-31   12:30:26 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#144. To: nolu chan (#143) (Edited)

The AR-15 you could buy for cash in a gun shop did not have a selective fire switch. It was strictly semi-auto.

The one you could buy for cash in a gun shop did not, and legally could not, meet MILSPEC for an M-16.

Once again,getting tangled up in bullshit and overlooking actual FACTS.

THERE WAS NO SUCH THING AS A M-16 AT THAT TIME,and the AR-15's issued to SF units DID have a selector switch with a full auto position. Some of the AR-15's in gun shops DID have the selector switch and were legal to own if you had the permit,and some did not have it. Yet,they were both AR-15's.

The regular Army,USMC,and US Navy were still being issued M-14's.

And I am UNSURE when selective fire weapons with M-16 engraved on them became illegal for civilian to own or possess. I DO know that prior to Clinton it was both possible and legal to own a BAR,Thompson sub-machine gun,M3 greasegun,etc,etc,etc,and every single damn one of them were ex-military weapons that had been declared as surplus to the needs of the service,and put up for sale as surplus weapons.

Since the M-16 existed LONG before Bubba was King in DC,and it has gone through many,many modifications,including modification to 3 round burst and then back to full auto or semi-auto again,chances are there are some genuine surplus M-16's floating around out there somewhere that are LEGALLY in civilian hands.

As for the legality of a licensed owner selling one to another licensed owner today goes,chances are it is illegal and will remain illegal DESPITE it being un-Constutiontal for for the government to tell anyone they can't sell private property they legally bought because the shitheads that sit on the Supreme Court will never allow the case to be put before them.

I guess,if I really wanted,I could ask a couple of Class-3 dealers about this,but the truth is I don't really care on a personal basis about M-16's and have already wasted too much time on it.

I DO care about RIGHTS,but once again,this is a mute issue unless the SC agrees to hear a case,and they won't.

sneakypete  posted on  2018-10-31   14:00:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#145. To: sneakypete (#144)

Interesting discussion. Where are all the missing posts? I assume Stone is deleting them?

We The People  posted on  2018-12-18   9:25:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 145.

#146. To: We The People (#145)

Where are all the missing posts? I assume Stone is deleting them?

There are zero missing posts as I just scanned the article.

Maybe you have to click on full thread.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-12-18 09:28:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#148. To: We The People, Stone (#145)

Interesting discussion. Where are all the missing posts? I assume Stone is deleting them?

I have no idea.

Stone?

sneakypete  posted on  2018-12-18 18:08:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 145.

TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Mail]  [Sign-in]  [Setup]  [Help]  [Register] 

Please report web page problems, questions and comments to webmaster@libertysflame.com