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Title: Ocasio-Cortez Is Asked How America Will Pay For Her Socialist Dreams. Guess How Much Information She Has In Her Head.
Source:
The Wire
URL Source: https://www.dailywire.com/news/3419 ... rica-will-pay-her-hank-berrien
Published: Aug 8, 2018
Author: HANK BERRIEN
Post Date: 2018-08-08 08:59:25 by IbJensen
Keywords: None
Views: 10393
Comments: 93
Speaking with host Jon Lovett on Pod Save America, New York Democratic socialist darling Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was asked for details as to how America would pay for her socialist dreams, such as universal healthcare and free college tuition. Although she spouted for roughly two minutes, the answer Ocasio-Cortez offered was this: she has no idea. Lovett prompted the descent into puffery and sound and fury signifying nothing by stating: We don’t talk about what defense costs; we’re about to hit a trillion dollars in debt because of the corporate tax cuts; yet when we talk about pre-K, healthcare, college, suddenly it’s unrealistic because of the cost. And it’s not just bad faith Republicans that make that argument; you hear it from Democrats as well. What’s your response to that? Ocasio-Cortez started like a house afire: “Well, I think it’s that exact same thing.” That makes it abundantly clear. She continued, “It’s that we… you know they say, ‘How are you going to pay for it?’ as though they haven’t used those same ways to pay for unlimited wars, to pay for trillion dollar tax cuts and tax cut extensions. They use these mechanisms to pay for these things all the time.” What “same ways"? What “mechanisms"? But we digress. Ocasio-Cortez waxed eloquent with more brilliantisms: “They only want to know — it just seems like their pockets are empty when we’re talking about education and investing in human capital in the United States: education, healthcare, housing, and investing in the middle class.” It would seem the students who want to game the system by getting college education for free are the ones with empty pockets while in her dreams the adults in the room have to ante up, and what she means by “investing in the middle class” is anyone’s guess, but she had more: All of a sudden, there’s nothing left. All of a sudden the wealthiest nation in the world, we’re just totally scarce. We have complete scarcity when it comes to the things that are the most important. She might want to visit socialist Venezuela for a look at “complete scarcity” of things that are most important, such as food. Ocasio-Cortez continued, "And so for me, I think it belies a lack of moral priority and it’s unfortunate." As opposed to making others pay for your dreams, which used to be called stealing. Ocasio-Cortez then rambled on: I think that — but I also think a lot of these folks, especially those perhaps on the Democratic side, perhaps they don’t even see it, you know? I don’t know. I don’t know if that’s a generous interpretation or not, but I legitimately think that they start kind of buying into conservative talking points. They get dragged into their court all the time. And I think it is because there’s this really myopic, and also, just misunderstanding of politics as this flat 2-dimensional left/right thing. And so they always feel like, “Okay, the Right says this thing. We have to respond to it.” And that’s why they’re winning. That’s why they’ve won for the last ten years, because they’ve dragged us onto their court. And we refuse to have our own strong message to force them to play defense on. In all that verbiage, did you see an answer as to how the young socialist would pay for her dreams? Didn’t think so. https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/1026919316665450496
Poster Comment: Nutsy is a plethora of ideas. Get this gal in Congress! I have a five point plan to pay for these ideas: 1. um, yeah, Catch a leprechaun. 2. uhhhhh, harvest Unicorn Horns, and sell them. 3. um, we can like, you know, like, set up a task force, and stuff, searching for Genie's bottles 4. ♫ When you wish upon a star ♫ 5. um uh Scandivania! So clearly, these things can be paid for if we just, uh, prioritize, and stuff. uh,Ask Bernie!
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#41. To: Vicomte13 (#34)
Why is it people always over exaggerate to "try" to make a point? I never said I wanted to kick all people off of subsistence. The point is there are "some" people who don't deserve to be on it because they don't want to be responsible. I'm only saying they should be made to be responsible just like you said I should have my money stolen from me at gunpoint to subsidize those folks. So what does the Bible say about stealing? Lets see: A man’s negligence which results in a loss to his neighbor. Exodus chapter 22 (verses 1-15) describes several acts of negligence which deprive a neighbor of his property, and which thus require restitution. Oh and here’s another one: He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must labor, performing with his own hands what is good, so that he will have something to share with one who has need. (I just love Catholic hypocrites, maybe you need to brush up on what’s really in the Bible instead of interpreting it to say what you want it to say). You claim to like Trump and what he's doing so why not embrace his concept of creating jobs so that everybody who should be working, is capable of working or wants to work can provide for themselves and their families?? (He seems to want them to have the opportunity to be all they can be, don't you)? Why do you think he's also bringing back the work mandate for Welfare? (In your eyes just to be mean I suppose). Trump also wants to build a wall to keep even more lazy MFers out of this country, to keep them from sucking it dry monetarily. Is there something about those concepts that you don't like beings you're a Trump lover?? (Is it because it's about retirement time for you and you haven't prepared for it and want others to keep your lazy ass alive, or aren't they authoritarian enough for you)?? So how many people have died at the governments hands over the countless millennia thanks to your “perfect” system of government? (Which allows the crooked politicians to get richer and everybody else suffer because the politicians always morph it into full blown authoritarian/dictatorial/monarchial governments). How many billion is it now? 1, 2, 5?? You’re a historian you tell me… So who's the reasonable/responsible one here Vic, I’m not advocating for those deaths like you are?? BTW the only reason you think you've won is because people have found out that they can vote for and receive a free ride, and you’ve helped them achieve that. But sooner or later it will all cave in on itself (it always does/has) and there will be nothing to give those people you claim to want to help and they will die a slow, horrible, painful death. (You should be very proud of yourself)!! Now maybe you can see why I say your way is faux empathy but for some reason I doubt you will. P.S. I could tell you to go FO and die but then it would make me just as silly as you...
Vegetarians eat vegetables. Beware of humanitarians!
More like plunging toilets for them, they're so full of shit at those places they need a full time bathroom attendant. Heh-heh... But more he was like *clogging* those toilets and working Over-time to do it.
His little ploy is he's smart and you're a stupid nincompoop. Yup. Exactamundo. Except the joke was on him. We'd seen it here...and at other forums (as at FR) -- these kinds of people will contact each other and call in Hyena-reinforcement in working to "gaslight" the opposition, people who indeed know exactly what's going on and onto the Group-Yoda act. Except here there was no one left to actually support Gilligan's One-Man ACLU Clown Show. And when his bullschitt ploy comes back to bite/haunt him it's time to runaway for awhile and hope people forget what happened. Sooner or later he'll be back as himself or with another pseudo name, they just can't resist. That's usually the trend, isn't it? He/they return...and...Sometimes people do learn and admit their errors. But it can't be faked or BS'd for long to those of us who've posted at these forums for a decade or two. Cred can't be redeemed if one can't admit they've been wrong. WE remember. Especially things like ACLU worship. Forum blackmail. Ridicule of the Bible WHILE also quoting it. And general hypocrisy and lies.
Maybe you're right; Maybe he's been hiding it. OR...maybe has recently just realized (or self-admitted) that the degree of "Socialist" acceptance/advocacy is much greater than he even thought. From my perspective, Vic's always been an enigma (he might even admit it); Solidly identifies conservative in certain ways, but solidly and decidedly LEFT in others. So where's that leave him of the political scale? Overall, probably Center. But that winds up allowing the Left to gain ground while undermining the Conservatism. Conservatism MUST increase, otherwise we know the USA WILL become full-blown Socialist (already the Dems are at the brink), and then comes the inevitable: Totalitarianism. And a hot CW2. The math is painfully easy for us to do, isn't it? For Vic -- who admits his degree of affection for our country and system vs "European" *is* divided -- maybe that's why he's more Socialist than Constitutionalist. All it takes is a love for anti government, and all the Paultards here or on LP will embrace you... as long as you hide your love for welfare, abortion, open borders and drugs. There are some extremely confused posters here who want it both ways...AND ALL WAYS. Without common-sense Law Enforcement we have a Portland OR/Berkeley CA type of nation. I am SICK of the daily dredged up isolated cases that broad-brush ALL of LE as petty, evil, over-officious bullies. It's intellectually and morally dishonest. AND worst of all, follows the BLM/0bama script of spreading HATE of cops and respect for The Law. Semi-Anarchists and Socialists only serve the OTHER SIDE. This is no time as you know to straddle the fence on Party politics. Especially with Trump (the "Independent" Libertarians and Conservatives were wishing for) at the helm fighting the fake Two-Parties (GOPe NWO puppets + Dem-Commies). Honestly, Ron Paul wasn't all that wrong on many things. He was surprisingly ahead of the curve on many; He KNEW long ago that our gummit's PTB (and those behind the scene) were a festering corrupt hell-hole pit of Globalists and Liars selling us out. But was dangerously naive in a number of crucial issues. Hardcore libertarians jumped on the band-wagon then took things too far into Anarchist territory.
There's actually a good chance that the entrenched Deep State and parent PTB (like ValJar, Brennan, the 0bama-Klinton NWO-Alliance like Soros) are subsidizing and fronting for nutjob Ortiz nutjob as well as ALL these emerging Democrat Party endorsed Socialists and Muzzies who HATE the USA (Have you noticed the HIGH number of radical La Raza-type and Muzzies (D) actually running for office??) She's nothing more than a female Obama (another community organizer) who preys on stupid people so they can reap the rewards and get rich. Obozo played it all the way to the White Hut and now lives off of rich Democrap donors who are still stupid enough to give him money even though he was/is a failure. EXACTLY. The Dems and their propaganda wing are desperate to find as many female 0bamas as possible: Ortiz-Crazed Eyeball Kook, Kamala Harris, etal "Communitah Organizing" at its most obvious. As with 0'Bammy (an elites' Manchurian Candidate if ever we saw one), they are hoping to heavily recruit that low-hanging fruit -- the sub-70 IQ demo along with the usual fake "disenfranchised"/"victim" demo, aka witches, BLM, Jihadists, HOMOs, self-loathing whites -- along with the flower of the Democrat Party: Mental deficient freaks, masochists and demon-possessed. Particularly annoying: 0bammy's life of celebrity and FREEBIES after having taking a wrecking ball to the USA. THIS guy has dome more to create this current atmosphere of daily derangement, hate and paranoia than anyone in history. (NOT including this treasonous fake MSM.)
Stop. You're killin' me.
I meant "rant" is the most complimentary way. YOU have been addressing and saying what needs to be said...on everything. It's almost as though our brains are tapped into the same sane, reality, truth-based source. It's...almost word for word. And like you, I have ZERO patience for the daily layers of lies being spewed from the Media (so-called "news" and sports) schools, talking heads, Hollywood, Commies, Socialists, BLM, ACLU, SPLC, feminazis, projecting hypocritical haters at every turn. They are ALL on the very SAME TEAM, with the VERY SAME GOAL: Take down the USA, our national Judeo-Christian heritage and traditions, capitalist system, and.... our Constitution. And at the root of ALL of this alliance: HATRED for God and HIS laws. The Secular Humanist World is one destined for Hell on Earth. Then Hell IN Hell.
I know what you meant we're cool.
Vegetarians eat vegetables. Beware of humanitarians!
True. They want to be free to be a lazy POS and not be held responsible/accountable for their actions.
Vegetarians eat vegetables. Beware of humanitarians!
I don't want it "Both" ways, and I'm not confused. I want it MY way. But I recognize that's not going to happen in any pure sense. Failing that, I want a set of compromises I can tolerate. Occasionally I'll say "If I were King..." and give MY way, but usually I skip all of that. I'm not going to get what I want, I know it, so why waste the time on it. Instead, I look at what is reasonably possible and practical in the real world, and try to stick within that bandwidth. Take any issue - you can pick it - and you will find this tension, between the perfect and the possible. I tend to write from the perspective of the possible, but most posters here write from the perspective of the perfect, as if they were King. Then they get really mad at folks who don't agree. I try for awhile, I play for awhile. Eventually I lose my temper and check out for awhile. The notion that I move around a lot is just not true though. I got banned from FR, long ago, because I criticized H.W. Bush for his handling of war and taxes. I haven't changed my mind about that at all. FR eventually moved over to where I was too. I haven't changed my view of abortion since 1977, when I had to write my first paper on the subject for 9th Grade English debate class. My view of the death penalty has been the same since I was a teenager. My view of taxation became more sophisticated once I studied the US and Euroepan tax laws, and realized how taxes are the central core of the very structure of the economy, and thought about the most equitable and least distortive methods of taxation (the answer is a gross wealth tax and the elimination of income and payroll taxes). I just don't change much, but I get accused of it. It puzzles me. I think what it is is that there are certain set-piece political beliefs that come as a package with party in the US. I'm an Independent. I see strength and weaknesses of both major parties. I have almost always voted Republican because the weaknesses of the Democrats have often been most glaring and worried me more, but I have none of the Republican partisan RAGE against Democrats, and I don't think that the Republicans are the bulwark against Communism or any such over the top rhetoric. That's just silly to me. So when I get targeted with rhetoric of that sort I just skim over it and ignore it. It's poppycock.
I'm not hiding anything. Americans are mostly four things: Protestant, Anglo-Saxon, Democrat or Republican, and Middle Class. I'm Catholic, French, Independent, and European nobility. These are my inner identifications, and each cuts across the grain of some feature of American culture, and puts me outside of the mainstream and the norm. It does not mean I am conflicted, or confused, or hiding anything. I'm not particularly shy, and I generally think that my way of seeing things is better on all counts. Economically, precisely BECAUSE I come from the nobility (which America does not have), and the nobility is tied to religion, I have an economic view that simply does not exist among Americans - I think that it is a divine obligation for the uppermost classes to specifically shepherd, care for, be concerned with and move among, the lowest classes, the poor. It is not a choice - noblesse oblige. To be rich, American style, is not nobility. They are two different animals. Nobility simply doesn't exist in America, and that's fine - I wouldn't want to try to bring it here. There's no NEW nobility in Europe either - it is an artifact of a bygone era, but it is real, and it fuses economic concerns, political concerns and religion together in a way that simply does not exist among the democratic masses. What it means concretely is that I cannot simply dismiss the poor as lazy or drug-addled wastrels, or trash, or scum, or any of the harsh words used by the economically hard-minded. They are, rather, the weaker members of the clan, the lower orders of the tribe - they are part of the extended FAMILY - and it's the duty of those chosen by God to be the leaders of the tribe, through the superior natural abilities and fortunes that God has bestowed upon us, to make sure that nobody is left behind. We're not just civilians making money and living discrete lives, we're all soldiers in a vast cultural army, and we cannot leave any soldier behind, because that's wrong. My thinking in this parallels Prince Harry or Queen Margarethe much more than it does any American politician or thinker of ANY stripe, from far Left to far Right. Where you get it backwards is in thinking that I am "moving" somewhere or "diverging". My outlook on this is a hereditary one that goes back 800 years. It's 700 years older than either modern Socialism OR Modern Conservatism. I am not a modern man in this sense at all, and I look at the current sets of socio-political beliefs and see them as being deeply flawed and unrealistic, and forgetting the wisdom of the ages. But I do not forget, and I do not forget who I am either. So if you think you're seeing movement, what you are really seeing is your own relative motion relative to a fixed object: me. I am as constant as the Sun. I DO have a temper, and when inflamed by it I can start paring off the gentler and nobler aspects of what I believe - when at peace - and become this terrible warrior that will burn down the village and kill everybody to restore obedient order, but I have to be pressed to that - I don't start there. (And it is a constant of ALL forms of established order that survive, that in the end they defend themselves with very violent force and extreme prejudice against whatever is attacking, and they kill it regardless of its ideas, because the ideas cease to matter and preserving control prevails. This was true of God himself, in the Great Flood, so it is not too terribly surprising that creatures made in his image will ultimately kill everybody and everything in order to prevent order from being overthrown by chaos.) Politically, therefore, I do not accept the limitations of thinking of either the Democrats or the Republicans. A nobleman is a traditionalist who favors good order, military forces in particular - competent and obedient paramilitary forces (but with a very strong antipathy for corrupt and self-governing police forces or other banditti) - and who sees the virtue in devotion to duty, to the flag, to a code of conduct. Traditional sins, which is to say alcohol and sex, are winked at, and tobacco is an old enough sin that one can shrug one's shoulders at it, but harder drugs that destroy the mind are much more offensive - they destroy the tribe, the cousinage, the strength of the clan, the nation, from below. But the American Right winger looks at drug addicts as dirt bags and scum, while the American Left winger sees them as victims of racial and social injustice. I see them as damaged soldiers, whose addictions and demons weaken the potential armed forces of the nation - and rather than wanting to cut them off as trash, I want to dedicate the resources to patching them up and getting them back on the field, in the ranks as members of the fighting team (even if merely as toiling peasants whose usufruit pays for the more general effort). This is not socialism, or communism, or libertarianism or traditional conservatism. It's not on the spectrum of American thinking at all. I suppose it's feudalism, if a word needs to be given to it. To ascribe this to some sort of fickle aspect of my character is just missing the mark. I am really very steady and consistent in my core beliefs about everything, and I believe that what I believe in has been proved beyond the need of proof and tested in every climate for 1000 years. If you want to know my honest-to-God opinion on anything, ask me directly, and I will tell you directly. If you want to know why I think that, ask my why, and I will tell you why. If you think try to go jamming what I think or say into one of the petty, ill- thought-out contemporary distempers, like American Republicanism, or American Democrat party "liberalism", or "socialism" or "Communism", then you're always going to go wide of the mark, and you're going to be falsely accusing me of being fickle, of hiding, of being divided. I'm not divided. I am completely loyal to what I believe in. It's just that the major causes and organizations of our day in this country don't represent me, so I come across at odds with them. That's not because of me wavering around, it's because of the ill-fit of the Republicans or the Democrats, or American Christianity, or American economic and social beliefs, with the 13th Viscount of an obscure place in France. I'm not the moving object here. The times are. I am as fixed as that old stone fort in France that is named after me and mine. (I'm not named after it, it was originally built by us, and is named after us. This is a good analogy to what we are talking about, actually.)
Maybe in a fairy tale where you kiss mice and lizards and bring them back from the dead. Delusional. You're still an interesting guy and fun to read. Even good sometimes. Still delusional.
Not true. They are human beings with problems. You get a lot wrong about us right wingers as you call us. You look at right wingers as dirt bags. On more than one occasion you posted about the need to murder us all. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
I kissed nothing. The lizard and the mouse, one each, were in my right hand. I am who I am.
Perhaps I do. I agree, they are human beings with problems. And the officers, those of us appointed over them, have the duty to help them.
Most of them aren't bleeding hearts and that seems to be the problem. Self reliance/responsibility seems to be a 4 letter word with him.
Vegetarians eat vegetables. Beware of humanitarians!
Nope. Those things are great. But they cannot be carried to the extreme that you want to carry them. The right rule is: self-reliance and responsibility, and you will go far, have quite a bit, live a very comfortable life, have authority and respect, see the world, dine well, and look back on a life well lived. Eschew self-reliance and responsibility, and you will not go far, have little, live an uncomfortable life in drab, working class surroundings, have neither authority nor respect, see little of the world (and what you will see will be the grotty side of some run-down city, eat poorly and look back on a life of much suffering and loss. That is entirely reasonable, and that is what happens WITH social support. Remove social support, and the lack of self-reliance and responsibility will lead to homelessness, starvation, disease, and dying in the streets, as in all of the countries of the world where there is no social welfare support. Grinding poverty does NOT, in fact, act as a spur for people to climb out. It simply acts as a life-shortening, riot-provoking decay - the sprawling slums of India and the Third World. I do not speak of a social welfare state that is gold plated, such that those who do not exercise self-disciple and take on responsibility live like the middle class or upper class. I speak of basic working class conditions only, which are basic necessities, medical care, and an education permitting the determined to climb out. That is all. But you, when you say "self-reliance and responsibility" in the context of social welfare, you mean "have no social welfare", and let the poor starve to death if they won't work. Your solution would be the Third World. That is the difference between us - your lip is curled with hatred and disgust for the poor and the unambitious. You see them as worthy of experiencing extreme suffering and early death, and do not want to provide them ANY support, as that will make them lazy. I see them as unambitious peasants - capable of some manual labor but little else, but available as manpower for, say, a draft (if needed), and with the potential, among some of them, or their offspring, to rise. So, you would simply let them starve, but I say that does not respect God and that they need to have a basic working class life as a minimum. My way is more expensive in the short run (but produces a bigger economy and better-educated people in the long run) and much more humane. You scoff at the humanity. And on this website, from all appearances, most people agree with you and want what you want for the poor, but disagree with me and despise it - and despise me. Nowhere have I ever said anything that would allow you to assert that self- reliance and responsibility are a "four letter word" for me. I simply reject your assertion - and that of so many others here - that a basic subsistence level of material support, health care, and education, for everybody, is opposed to the principle of self-reliance or personal responsibility. I think it is an anti-Christian argument to say that it is. One guy said he was my friend here on this site. This would be a very good moment for ANYBODY reading this who agrees with what I have said to step up and say "Actually, I agree with him." Because here we are, in the middle of a thread created by the site master specifically to attack me, both as a person (delusional, liar, etc.) and my ideas. Plenty have chimed in in agreement, and nobody has stood on my side, which is the side of reason, compassion and, frankly, Christ. Now would be a good time to do it. If I were calling for "nationalizing the means of production" or some radical nonsense, it would be fair game to be calling me a socialist, or Communist, or whatever. I have done no such thing. All I have said is that it is necessary to provide a basic standard of living - working class dignity at least - to everybody, even the marginals at the bottom, rather than letting them starve in the streets. When even THAT causes me to be called some sort of Lefty pinko, well, it shows just what the Right is. Yes, Stone - this is what the Right is. If you don't agree, then tell me about the social welfare, medicine and education you think we DO need. Don't tell me all of the problems - I am well aware of them. Admit that, DESPITE the problems, we DO have to do it anyway, because right now all that anybody ever gives is problems, and that leads any reasonable person to conclude that, because of the problems, your solution is to do nothing at all, just "Let them eat cake" as Marie Antoinette famously never said.
Actually, we're not. That was a different, parallel thread, that I thought I was responding to.
This kind of applies to you. What I am saying is you are full of shit until you give up most of your wealth. Comprende hypocrite?
Are you a liar or do you have a reading comprehension problem? It is one or the other because he already told your pathetic ass that he isn't for no social welfare. Of course it is the governments job to take care of extreme things like famines and stuff like that. Joshua did it in Egypt. You're basically a socialist hypocrite. Do as I say not as I do.
Again you have a reading comprehension problem. Or are you semi retarded? I didn't start this thread.
Actually you said you don't believe in Christ or his Bible. You worship a man who calls himself holy father pope. An asshole fake and a liar who perverts Gods word. God said in the Bible if you don't work you don't eat. Don't bother responding I already heard your lies before.
If you don't want to watch the whole video start at about 10 min.
She has the look of a woman I wouldn't want to go sleep in the same house with her.
WHAT wealth, ignoramus? The wealth I might have accumulated since the theft has mostly been put into preparing an American Olympian and generally supporting the American team effort. I live plainly, in an old tract house, driving an 11-year old car. I eat simply. I have put my wealth into my offspring's head and heart, and into the US Olympic athletic effort. And some into poverty relief at the church. My net worth is pretty close to zero. You assume that I don't practice what I preach. Actually, I live almost completely in conformity to my moral beliefs. When it comes to matters of wealth and power, I am not a hypocrite at all. If you want to know my weakness, it is very specific and clear, and I will admit it is a fault. I still love the women I truly loved in the past. I don't still sleep with them, but I do truly love them, and I always will. This is adultery, as Jesus defines it. I can help what I DO, but I cannot help what I feel and think. So there, that is my true weakness. I very deeply love three women. I am married to one. I do not cheat in the flesh, but that's not Jesus' standard, is it? No, it isn't. I am incapable of ceasing to love without cutting my heart out and dying. So, there's my hypocrisy, my weakness, my sin, laid bare. If you want to criticize me for something of which I am actually guilty, call me an adulterer under Christ's standards, and you would be correct (under the standards of the law, you would not be). Trying to call me out on financial matters is funny, because you are so far off the mark it reveals more of your own guilty conscience than mine. God ensured that I do not have to worry about that by twice stripping a lot of money away from me and forcing me to live hand-to-mouth. I adjusted my desires downwards to the point where I basically eat the same thing as a bear, sleep without air conditioning, wear old clothes, live in an old house, drive a squeaky old car, and put my purse into my daughter's head, the US Team, and poverty relief. In short: Not Guilty, of that. Guilty of something else. If you're going to accuse me, get the charge right. I'm not greedy. I don't care about power or money. I don't pile up wealth. I use what I have to educate, motivate and help. My weakness is that I love too much. Attack me for that. It's legitimate. The other blows don't even land. They're whiffs at the air.
The Bible was compiled by the Church, not Christ. I do not worship the Pope. God never said that. Paul said that in one of his letters, and he was referring to a specific situation, not making a general law of God - which he did not have the power to make anyway. Because your religion equates the Bible to God, and therefore elevates Paul to the status of God, and because you misread Paul to say that the jobless must not eat (by divine commandment), therefore, you take the position that to feed the jobless is sin. And you really believe that what you believe is the will of God. Truly there is nothing for us to talk about. We have different gods. You believe fervently in yours; I know mine directly.
John 1 King James Version (KJV) 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Sure you do. You say he can over rule the Bible. You call him holy father.
God said he would preserve his word. I guess you think he is a liar.
God ensured that I do not have to worry about that by twice stripping a lot of money away from me and forcing me to live hand-to-mouth. You are the one who bragged you were in the top 1 percent and we could learn from you. We can learn from your example. I didn't say give where you have to live hand to mouth. I"m saying give as much as Jesus told the rich guy to give which was everything. You ware the one who judges people saying they need to give to the poor. Give to the government is what you believe in. Not giving to the Church. You equate the government with God and use old testament commandments which you say you don't believe in to say to give to the government. So you shouldn't be a hypocrite anymore. Sell all you have you have more then the rich man in the Bible had. Hypocrite. You want others to give and you say you do some olympic crap. Olympic crap is no excuse and isn't holy in the least. I call you out on this and only you because i am judging you by the standards you judge. Hypocrite.
You equate God's word with the Bible. That's where you err. In the beginning was the Bible, and the Bible was with God, and the Bible was God? Nope.
God's word is his will. All of it. Paul and even Peter the betrayer.
But I am in the top 1%, of earners (not of wealth accumulators). I do not accumulate the wealth. I spend it on education and on development and charity. The "Olympic crap" that you say is not holy in the least - you are such and ignorant, judgmental man. Few go to the Olympics, but the process of getting to that level of skill in any sport at all requires years, and years and years of training. In America, there is no state sponsorship of sport to speak of, so the sort of training required would normally limit Olympic hopefuls to the rich. But actually there is a feeder system whereby kids from the poorest areas - the veritable ghettos of New York City - can come, get physical conditioning, spend their time learning and preparing for a sport (and not be on the streets), and have academic guidance and counseling (so that even if they don't go to the Olympics, as 1 in 1000 has a shot of doing, they get their education, stay in school, and go on to college (as opposed to onto the streets). Because the sport is drug tested, the imperative of avoiding drugs is instilled, and the correlation between bad activity and harm to physical conditioning is made clear by the fact of the physical conditioning. The boys and girls who come up through the programs, which are charitable in nature, end up mostly getting their educations, avoiding crime, avoiding drugs, and many of them believe in it and come and give their time to the community. Sport is, in short, a way out, a path away, a way by which individuals growing up in terrible conditions DON'T simply get sucked into the ghetto, but come away and live productive lives DESPITE the fact that they grow up in it. Sport in this way is the most practical, effective social service and future poverty relief you have never imagined, and it lifts hundreds and hundreds of kids out of a future of gangs, crime and waste. YOU'RE not paying for it, because the government doesn't do this. Private institutions do it, with contributions of time and effort. A handful of these kids actually have the God-given talent to go to the Olympics and represent the USA in their sport. Most never really had any prospect of that from the beginning. I tire of you. You're self-righteous, ignorant and abusive.
I have nothing against anyone going to the Olympics or helping their children. Except for you because you could spend that money feeding the poor. To live up to your values you preach. You want the government to to take so you can feel good. A hypocrite. You won't go first. Also the penalty for not paying taxes is not to murder them like you want. You're a certified hypocrite.
AND...they'd like us to be wiling accomplices. The thing is...we know the vast majority of Americans DON'T support this now unbridled open hostility toward God. Nor do we support Socialism other than "Safety-Net" and SS (way too late to do anything about FDR's Communism.) The World Elites/PTB are and have been setting us up...with their goal to replace God as THE Authority that re-defines "good" and "evil". We *know* exactly what's going on (creating a World-Anarchy that's sets up their iron-fisted satanic One World Gummit that "restores order"). But it doesn't mean we have to make it easy for them. What STILL surprises me is the number of Baby-Boomers who've remained filthy hippie-Commies and whining narcissist rebels into their 60s and 70s (even AS they've lived blessed lives within Christendom's system of economic and political liberty). We even see them posting HERE.
Well frankly, in some senses you *are* wanting it both ways. Speaking of "reasonably" or reason and "practicality" as defined by Democrats and Republicans (as well as subsets on conservatives and independents), we are now to the point where definitions and reality lie in different universes. (THANKS TO THE DEMOCRATS/SECULAR HUMANISTS/COMMUNISTS WHO'VE TOTALLY HIJACKED THE LANGUAGE AND ACADEMIA). Individually there is little way of us affecting THE world. But we CAN influence and affect our respective circles and sphere of influence. As you know, at our foundation of success and liberty in America (as well as in Western Europe) are the morals and ethics taught and advanced in Christendom. Christendom is NOT compatible with many of Socialism's platforms. Some of which you strongly support. This undermines the principles of Christendom's personal and collective economic liberty as well as weakening the common sense demands and expectations of personal responsibility. I just don't change much, but I get accused of it. It puzzles me. I think what it is is that there are certain set-piece political beliefs that come as a package with party in the US. I'm an Independent. I see strength and weaknesses of both major parties. I have almost always voted Republican because the weaknesses of the Democrats have often been most glaring and worried me more, but I have none of the Republican partisan RAGE against Democrats, and I don't think that the Republicans are the bulwark against Communism or any such over the top rhetoric. That's just silly to me. So when I get targeted with rhetoric of that sort I just skim over it and ignore it. It's poppycock. Maybe in your mind you feel you haven't changed much; Is it a stretch to say that just maybe you've amplified your feelings and opinions over the years? And supported Socialism more than say 10-20 years ago? I realize and acknowledge that you are most "independent" than anything. Probably the same can be said of most of us here, though most of us identify with conservatism. That said, certain platforms must be supported/opposed. With respect to Republicanism v Democrat philosophy, it MUST be conceded that the core of the Democrat Party has now careened into Communist-Fascist territory. One can be "independent" but only to a degree while CW2 is raging. Political "gray-area" doesn't exist in times of war. Like a lot of people, you've mistakenly confused the Establishment GOP with the conservatives who by necessity join the Republican Party; They are TWO DIFFERENT entities with TWO DIFFERENT GOALS. ANY reasonable, logical patriot who also calls themselves an "American" OR "Christian" should indeed be "enraged" by Democrats, their lies, coercion, propaganda, inversion of morals & ethics, their subversive policies and agenda. That is IF one is paying even cursory attention. THAT is NOT silly or "rhetoric"; That's FACT. And yes, Republicanism HAS been a national bulwark or inoculation against a creeping socialism-Communism. AT the Democrat/Socialism-Communism core we'll find a militant atheism, a bullying Secular Humanism, and fascistic anti-personal & national sovereignty positions. Whereas some of your political and personal positions and "wish-list" may be compassionate and Utopian, ANY support of Democrats in ANY sense at this juncture of history only weakens and undermines America and Freedom.
I'm only saying they should be made to be responsible just like you said I should have my money stolen from me at gunpoint to subsidize those folks. CZ's simple point and context make great sense to me. Because this theft of the money WE earn should NOT be confiscated and "shared" just because the Socialist/Communist thinks THIS defines "fair". By any sense of logic and honesty it isn't. Oh and here’s another one: He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must labor, performing with his own hands what is good, so that he will have something to share with one who has need. Can't refute any of these Biblical lessons. Unless one is a Socialist/Communist. Is there such a thing as "Charity"? Of course. But what Socialism-Communism demands is EQUAL RESULTS from ALL. Despite UNEQUAL efforts, planning, sacrifices, and circumstances. Why do you think he's [Trump] also bringing back the work mandate for Welfare? (In your eyes just to be mean I suppose). Trump also wants to build a wall to keep even more lazy MFers out of this country, to keep them from sucking it dry monetarily. Is there something about those concepts that you don't like...? "Workfare" is a common sense solution/resolution that helps otherwise idle healthy men and women EARN a living, which does a man's body AND soul good. The Dem-Left has portrayed "Workfare" as some kind of derivative of "slavery". And THAT is a lie. The Dem-Left has instead made the WORKING MAN "slaves" to the healthy idle, the lazy, the parasitic. TANGENT: Let's face it -- many of these welfare programs and "Gimme-Dat" benefits and even created unnecessary gummint jobs are designed (By Democrats) to be de facto "REPARATIONS", subsidized by Whitey. The entire Tsunami of Third World Flotsam (Legal AND Illegal, Mexican, Asian, Muzzies, etal) are another way the West (and its majority of European White natives) are being guilted into a "Global Reparation". WITHOUT OUR CONSENT. How many billion is it now? 1, 2, 5?? You’re a historian you tell me… So who's the reasonable/responsible one here Vic...? Reasonable premise and questions that requires reasonable justification (and answer) in my opinion. AS an American. Constitutionalist. Patriot. AND Christian. (I'll look further into the thread to find your answer, Vic.) TO BOTH: Won WHAT?? I *hope* Vic hasn't implied that Socialism has "won". Yes...and as Margaret Thatcher put it, "The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money". Socialism ALWAYS has historically led to full-blown Communism, Fascism, and national/economic ruination, slavery and mass murder. To endorse a National Socialism in America TODAY (Gee -- what's THAT sound like??) as Venezuela has provided Exhibit "A" of the result of their mandated hijacking of private industry and individualism, aka "Socialism" must be fought against tooth & nail. As I've opined already, there is NO gray area. Vic, you're hardly alone in your position. There are a few posters here that I consider borderline morons. LITERALLY. This is not to pick on you specifically. But considering your intellect and grasp of history, your position is more disappointing than anything. We all have blind spots. Yours is a YUGE one. This should be an easy decision to discern and make. Either one supports Trump's core policies, OR jumps ship and dives into the Kool-Ade cauldron of suicidal Maxine Water/Ocasio-Sanders politics of the DEMOCRAT PARTY (who've are lying sociopaths now engaged in a coup against Donald Trump, the US Constitution, AND The American People.)
I do! Example: "Trump’s professed opposition to cutting Social Security and Medicare has been both a hallmark of his campaign and one of his greatest departures from traditional conservative ideology." - May 2016 Example: "Support up to six weeks of paid maternity leave and encourage employers to provide child care at work." January, 2017 Example: Trump: I Will Defend Medicaid. - June, 2017 Example: "We're going to be cutting tremendous amounts of money and waste and fraud and abuse. But, no, I'm not cutting services, but I am cutting spending. - Education has to be local." Example: "Our Country was built on Tarriffs, and Tarriffs are now leading us to great new Trade Deals..." Trump and I agree more than Trump and you do. You just don't realize it.
So I'm curious as to how different the sprawling Leftard Ghettos of this country with all of your social programs are compared to those in the Third World countries that don't have those programs?? HINT: Not much at all crime is rampant in both and so is poverty, I know I've been to the ones in this country and those in others. The biggest difference is the ghetto dwellers here want to shoot each other just as fast as they can, in other countries they don't. Doesn't look like your war on poverty is worth a schitt but you'll never admit that will you??
Vegetarians eat vegetables. Beware of humanitarians!
Life expectancy. Literacy. Starvation. Untreated disease. The difference between the two places is vast.
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#42. To: CZ82 (#27)
Back to washing dishes at his local ACLU clubhouse kitchen? HuffPo/DU forums?
#43. To: CZ82 (#27)
Some people have these little ploys they like to pull on other posters, I see it on every forum I've ever been on.
#44. To: GrandIsland, Vicomte13 (#28)
I’ll submit that he’s been that way since you’ve known him... and there are quite a few more that purposely hide the amount of LEFT in them...
#45. To: CZ82 (#29)
(Edited)
She's [Ortiz-Mao] just a good little drone for who knows who, someone is paying her way.
#46. To: GrandIsland (#30)
If I were a single dude, I’d... and cross those crazy eyeballs of hers...
#47. To: CZ82 (#31)
(Edited)
I normally don't do rants cause with a lot of folks that's just their way of attempting to baffle with bullschitt, short and sweet is better...
#48. To: Liberator (#47)
I meant "rant" is the most complimentary way.
#49. To: Liberator (#47)
And at the root of ALL of this alliance: HATRED for God and HIS laws.
#50. To: Liberator (#44)
There are some extremely confused posters here who want it both ways..
#51. To: Liberator (#44)
Maybe you're right; Maybe he's been hiding it. OR...maybe has recently just realized (or self-admitted) that the degree of "Socialist" acceptance/advocacy is much greater than he even thought. From my perspective, Vic's always been an enigma (he might even admit it); Solidly identifies conservative in certain ways, but solidly and decidedly LEFT in others. So where's that leave him of the political scale? Overall, probably Center. But that winds up allowing the Left to gain ground while undermining the Conservatism. Conservatism MUST increase, otherwise we know the USA WILL become full-blown Socialist (already the Dems are at the brink), and then comes the inevitable: Totalitarianism. And a hot CW2. The math is painfully easy for us to do, isn't it? For Vic -- who admits his degree of affection for our country and system vs "European" *is* divided -- maybe that's why he's more Socialist than Constitutionalist.
#52. To: Vicomte13 (#51)
(Edited)
and European nobility
#53. To: Vicomte13 (#51)
But the American Right winger looks at drug addicts as dirt bags and scum,
#54. To: A K A Stone (#52)
Maybe in a fairy tale where you kiss mice and lizards and bring them back from the dead.
#55. To: A K A Stone (#53)
Not true. They are human beings with problems. You get a lot wrong about us right wingers as you call us.
#56. To: A K A Stone (#53)
You look at right wingers as dirt bags.
#57. To: CZ82 (#56)
Self reliance/responsibility seems to be a 4 letter word with him.
#58. To: All (#57)
Because here we are, in the middle of a thread created by the site master specifically to attack me, both as a person (delusional, liar, etc.) and my ideas.
#59. To: Vicomte13 (#57)
The right rule is: self-reliance and responsibility, and you will go far, have quite a bit, live a very comfortable life, have authority and respect, see the world, dine well, and look back on a life well lived.
#60. To: Vicomte13 (#57)
But you, when you say "self-reliance and responsibility" in the context of social welfare, you mean "have no social welfare", and let the poor starve to death if they won't work. Your solution would be the Third World.
#61. To: Vicomte13 (#57)
Because here we are, in the middle of a thread created by the site master specifically to attack me, both as a person (delusional, liar, etc.) and my ideas.
#62. To: Vicomte13 (#57)
and nobody has stood on my side, which is the side of reason, compassion and, frankly, Christ.
#63. To: vicomte13 (#59)
#64. To: IbJensen (#0)
#65. To: A K A Stone (#59)
(Edited)
What I am saying is you are full of shit until you give up most of your wealth. Comprende hypocrite?
#66. To: A K A Stone (#62)
Actually you said you don't believe in Christ or his Bible. You worship a man who calls himself holy father pope. An asshole fake and a liar who perverts Gods word. God said in the Bible if you don't work you don't eat.
#67. To: Vicomte13 (#66)
equates the Bible to God
#68. To: Vicomte13 (#66)
I do not worship the Pope.
#69. To: Vicomte13 (#66)
God never said that. Paul said that
#70. To: Vicomte13 (#65)
Trying to call me out on financial matters is funny, because you are so far off the mark it reveals more of your own guilty conscience than mine.
#71. To: A K A Stone (#69)
#72. To: Vicomte13 (#71)
#73. To: A K A Stone (#70)
You are the one who bragged you were in the top 1 percent and we could learn from you.
#74. To: Vicomte13 (#73)
#75. To: CZ82 (#49)
They want to be free to be a lazy POS and not be held responsible/accountable for their actions.
#76. To: Vicomte13 (#50)
(Edited)
I don't want it "Both" ways, and I'm not confused. I want it MY way. But I recognize that's not going to happen in any pure sense....I look at what is reasonably possible and practical in the real world, and try to stick within that bandwidth.
#77. To: CZ82, Vicomte13 (#41)
The point is there are "some" people who don't deserve to be on it [the Realm of Freedom] because they don't want to be responsible.
(CZ) So what does the Bible say about stealing? Lets see: A man’s negligence which results in a loss to his neighbor. Exodus chapter 22 (verses 1-15) describes several acts of negligence which deprive a neighbor of his property, and which thus require restitution.
CZ:Why not embrace his [Trump's] concept of creating jobs so that everybody who should be working, is capable of working or wants to work can provide for themselves and their families?? (He seems to want them to have the opportunity to be all they can be, don't you)?
CZ: How many people have died at the governments hands over the countless millennia thanks to your “perfect” system of [Socialist] government? (Which allows the crooked politicians to get richer and everybody else suffer because the politicians always morph it into full blown authoritarian/dictatorial/monarchial governments).
CZ:
CZ: But sooner or later it will all cave in on itself (it always does/has) and there will be nothing to give those people you claim to want to help and they will die a slow, horrible, painful death. (You should be very proud of yourself)!! Now maybe you can see why I say your way is faux empathy but for some reason I doubt you will.
#78. To: Liberator (#77)
Either one supports Trump's core policies
#79. To: Vicomte13 (#57)
Grinding poverty does NOT, in fact, act as a spur for people to climb out. It simply acts as a life-shortening, riot-provoking decay - the sprawling slums of India and the Third World.
#80. To: CZ82 (#79)
So I'm curious as to how different the sprawling Leftard Ghettos of this country with all of your social programs are compared to those in the Third World countries that don't have those programs??
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