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LEFT WING LOONS
See other LEFT WING LOONS Articles

Title: Ocasio-Cortez Is Asked How America Will Pay For Her Socialist Dreams. Guess How Much Information She Has In Her Head.
Source: The Wire
URL Source: https://www.dailywire.com/news/3419 ... rica-will-pay-her-hank-berrien
Published: Aug 8, 2018
Author: HANK BERRIEN
Post Date: 2018-08-08 08:59:25 by IbJensen
Keywords: None
Views: 512
Comments: 93

Speaking with host Jon Lovett on Pod Save America, New York Democratic socialist darling Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was asked for details as to how America would pay for her socialist dreams, such as universal healthcare and free college tuition. Although she spouted for roughly two minutes, the answer Ocasio-Cortez offered was this: she has no idea.

Lovett prompted the descent into puffery and sound and fury signifying nothing by stating:

We don’t talk about what defense costs; we’re about to hit a trillion dollars in debt because of the corporate tax cuts; yet when we talk about pre-K, healthcare, college, suddenly it’s unrealistic because of the cost. And it’s not just bad faith Republicans that make that argument; you hear it from Democrats as well. What’s your response to that?

Ocasio-Cortez started like a house afire: “Well, I think it’s that exact same thing.”

That makes it abundantly clear.

She continued, “It’s that we… you know they say, ‘How are you going to pay for it?’ as though they haven’t used those same ways to pay for unlimited wars, to pay for trillion dollar tax cuts and tax cut extensions. They use these mechanisms to pay for these things all the time.”

What “same ways"? What “mechanisms"?

But we digress.

Ocasio-Cortez waxed eloquent with more brilliantisms: “They only want to know — it just seems like their pockets are empty when we’re talking about education and investing in human capital in the United States: education, healthcare, housing, and investing in the middle class.”

It would seem the students who want to game the system by getting college education for free are the ones with empty pockets while in her dreams the adults in the room have to ante up, and what she means by “investing in the middle class” is anyone’s guess, but she had more:

All of a sudden, there’s nothing left. All of a sudden the wealthiest nation in the world, we’re just totally scarce. We have complete scarcity when it comes to the things that are the most important.

She might want to visit socialist Venezuela for a look at “complete scarcity” of things that are most important, such as food.

Ocasio-Cortez continued, "And so for me, I think it belies a lack of moral priority and it’s unfortunate."

As opposed to making others pay for your dreams, which used to be called stealing.

Ocasio-Cortez then rambled on:

I think that — but I also think a lot of these folks, especially those perhaps on the Democratic side, perhaps they don’t even see it, you know? I don’t know. I don’t know if that’s a generous interpretation or not, but I legitimately think that they start kind of buying into conservative talking points. They get dragged into their court all the time. And I think it is because there’s this really myopic, and also, just misunderstanding of politics as this flat 2-dimensional left/right thing. And so they always feel like, “Okay, the Right says this thing. We have to respond to it.” And that’s why they’re winning. That’s why they’ve won for the last ten years, because they’ve dragged us onto their court. And we refuse to have our own strong message to force them to play defense on.

In all that verbiage, did you see an answer as to how the young socialist would pay for her dreams?

Didn’t think so.

https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/1026919316665450496


Poster Comment:

Nutsy is a plethora of ideas. Get this gal in Congress!

I have a five point plan to pay for these ideas:

1. um, yeah, Catch a leprechaun.

2. uhhhhh, harvest Unicorn Horns, and sell them.

3. um, we can like, you know, like, set up a task force, and stuff, searching for Genie's bottles

4. ♫ When you wish upon a star ♫

5. um uh Scandivania! So clearly, these things can be paid for if we just, uh, prioritize, and stuff.

uh,Ask Bernie! (1 image)

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

#1. To: IbJensen (#0)

I don't know how she would pay for it, but I can tell you how I will.

Of course, she and I don't completely share dreams, but I agree with some of hers.

The short answer to the question is that it will be paid for the same way we pay for everything the government does not: wealth redistribution< primarily in the form of taxes, secondarily in the form of regulation.

Specifics would include substantially reducing the US military footprint and American imperialism, to save money, reducing the police state presence, for the same reasons, and setting taxes at the level necessary to fund what is required.

Marijuana would be legalized and taxed, like tobacco, to raise substantial revenue.

Securities transactions would be subject to the sales tax, like other transactions, and also to property taxes, like other substantial forms of property (houses, cars and boats).

The combination of savings from defense and over-regulation reductions and new revenue from capturing ALL forms of wealth by the property tax (as opposed to the current system of taxing just houses and cars, which skews the burden heavily to the middle class) and taxes on drug and securities transactions, would provide the revenue needed to balance the budget and start retiring the national debt.

The more debt that is retired, the less money is spent on interest on the debt. That is the third major source of revenue: the money that is currently spent on debt service would be available first for accelerated debt retirement, and then for investment in education and medical care.

That is how I would do it: make the tax code fair. Reduce military and paramility forces and over-regulation. Tax securities and securities transactions and pot. Balance the budget. Use the surplus to retire debt, freeing up interest payments. Use the excess revenue after debt retirement to substantially improve education and medical care.

Done.

Without socialism.

That's how I would do it.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-08-08   18:23:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Vicomte13 (#1)

....but I agree with some of hers.

I agree with NONE of hers while I agree with you as regards 'trimming' the central socialist government, I would take a meat ax to it and roll the calendar aback to 1912 and abolish the income tax and the IRS completely.

This is the only way to kill the monster that is eating us.

Liberals are like Slinkys. They're good for nothing, but somehow they bring a smile to your face as you shove them down the stairs.

IbJensen  posted on  2018-08-09   7:48:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: IbJensen (#2)

This is the only way to kill the monster that is eating us.

I don't think of the government as a monster eating us, but as an insurance policy.

I want that insurance policy to be robust enough to provide a working class standard of living to a family out of work, and a middle class education to a child without any means of support.

I want universal education sufficient to provide reasonable opportunity to every American child who will work, regardless of parental status.

I do not want the disabled, the unemployed or the aged to go homeless or without food or medical care.

I want violent crime controlled, and morals crimes left unpoliced and mostly stricken from the books. If we're going to have libertarianism, that's where we should be having it: leave people alone to their bodily pleasures.

Libertarianism is unacceptable when it reduces organ donation to capitalist transactions: the rich should not have greater access to organs than anybody else, and the poor should not be able to sell theirs out of desperation.

Etc.

If we faced the USSR, I would want to continue to fund the huge imperial footprint. But we don't, so I want to save the money and reduce the footprint. I do not believe that American hegemony provides enough economic benefit to middle and working class Americans to justify the expense.

We're never going to abolish the income tax or go back to pre-1912, because most of us are never going to give up the insurance policy.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-08-09   13:14:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Vicomte13 (#3)

I want that insurance policy to be robust enough to provide a working class standard of living to a family out of work, and a middle class education to a child without any means of support.

I want a very lean central government that tends to the NATIONAL defense. Necessary work should be the province of the state governments where representatives are elected by the people for four two year terms and the senators to be selected by the state legislatures for two four year terms.

All their expenses and stipends should be paid from the state treasuries.

The president, however, would be limited to two six year terms in order that his administration has enough time to get his agenda passed and that he doesn't have to campaign for his second term while only halfway through his first.

This astronomically bankrupted central government provides nothing but heartaches, but can be counted on to fight utterly useless wars.

Liberals are like Slinkys. They're good for nothing, but somehow they bring a smile to your face as you shove them down the stairs.

IbJensen  posted on  2018-08-10   7:41:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Vicomte13 (#3)

I want five grand. Give it to me Vic.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-08-10   7:54:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: A K A Stone (#5)

I want every American citizen who has liberal ideas, or is soft and WEAK... to eat a buckshot sandwich. Can ya sell this concept to Vic?

I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح

GrandIsland  posted on  2018-08-10   8:18:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: GrandIsland (#6) (Edited)

I want every American citizen who has liberal ideas, or is soft and WEAK... to eat a buckshot sandwich.

Heh...

Some of your stuff really cracks me up. Like this. And then I think of those who think you're MORE than half-serious. And laugh even more.

;-)

Liberator  posted on  2018-08-10   10:58:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Vicomte13 (#1)

I agree with some of hers [shared dreams].

But...but...Ocasio-Ditz is proposing and advancing COMMUNISM. "Socialism" is obviously just merely HALF camel's body.

HER ilk are not saying it but if you recall, 0bama DID say it to Joe the Plumber: "We kinda wanna spread the wealth around".

MEMO: The way HE and Ditzy want to do it is by CONFISCATION. And by taxing so-called "WHITE PRIVILEGE".

Reduce military and paramility forces and over-regulation.

Tax securities and securities transactions and pot.

Balance the budget.

Use the surplus to retire debt, freeing up interest payments.

Use the excess revenue after debt retirement to substantially improve education and medical care.

Done.

Without socialism.

That's how I would do it.

Works for me mostly.

The only place we disagree is in "improving education". THAT depends on whether Dems-Commies are still calling the shots (they've owned Public Schools and the Academe for the last 50 years) OR Conservatives.

"Education" and "For the Children" are code for, "THEFT FOR UNIONS, TEACHERS, and OTHER COMMIE GANGSTAS." The entire Public School System, "Common Core" and University system of Indoctrination-over-Education needs to be nuked right down to their festering dungeons.

Liberator  posted on  2018-08-10   11:11:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: A K A Stone (#5)

" I want five grand. "

That's all ??

I want 20 million $.

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.

Never Pick A Fight With An Old Man He Will Just Shoot You He Can't Afford To Get Hurt

"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." (Will Rogers)

"No one ever rescues an old dog. They lay in a cage until they die. PLEASE save one. None of us wants to die cold and alone... --Dennis Olson "

AMERICA! Designed by geniuses. Now run by idiots.

Stoner  posted on  2018-08-10   16:07:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Stoner (#9)

I want 20 million $.

I want a solid gold toilet.

lol

I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح

GrandIsland  posted on  2018-08-10   18:38:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Liberator (#7)

Ah, Vic can’t help his weaknesses. He’s been brainwashed by the libtard propaganda machine. He’s ok.

I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح

GrandIsland  posted on  2018-08-10   18:39:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: GrandIsland (#10)

" I want a solid gold toilet. "

Very expensive receptacle to deposit chunks of Obama, LOL !!

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.

Never Pick A Fight With An Old Man He Will Just Shoot You He Can't Afford To Get Hurt

"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." (Will Rogers)

"No one ever rescues an old dog. They lay in a cage until they die. PLEASE save one. None of us wants to die cold and alone... --Dennis Olson "

AMERICA! Designed by geniuses. Now run by idiots.

Stoner  posted on  2018-08-11   9:35:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Vicomte13 (#3)

Ah yes we have to keep the lazy portion of society alive so that they can vote, by stealing from productive people.

Get real...

Vegetarians eat vegetables. Beware of humanitarians!

CZ82  posted on  2018-08-11   9:52:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: IbJensen (#0)

Ocasio-Cortez Won’t Debate Shapiro Because He’s ‘Sexist’, So Conservative Ladies Step Up

https://www.westernjournal.com/ct/ocasio-cortez-conservative-ladies/? utm_source=Email&utm_medium=conservativevideos&utm_campaign=dailyam&utm_content= libertyalliance

Vegetarians eat vegetables. Beware of humanitarians!

CZ82  posted on  2018-08-11   10:52:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: CZ82 (#13)

Ah yes we have to keep the lazy portion of society alive so that they can vote, by stealing from productive people.

Get real...

Le chien aboie, la caravane passe.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-08-11   17:55:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Vicomte13, CZ82 (#15)

Le chien aboie, la caravane passe.

Vicomte13 -

Increasingly, I am convinced, you are a fuckin' idiot every time you create a post.

buckeroo  posted on  2018-08-11   18:18:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: buckeroo (#16)

Vicomte13 -

Increasingly, I am convinced, you are a fuckin' idiot every time you create a post.

You aren’t completely a kook.

I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح

GrandIsland  posted on  2018-08-11   20:17:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: buckeroo (#16)

Les chiens, donc.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-08-11   20:50:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: GrandIsland (#17)

You aren’t completely a kook.

But, you are. As a personal opinion, you are an insane asshole that adds no added value to anyone.

buckeroo  posted on  2018-08-11   21:03:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: buckeroo (#19)

“Assholes” are important, ba ba ba Fucky. That’s why everyone has one.

I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح

GrandIsland  posted on  2018-08-11   21:56:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Vicomte13 (#15) (Edited)

I know you don't care you're going to keep it up with the faux empathy schtick.

Making people be responsible for themselves will help them more that making someone else responsible for them. It's called turning a child into an adult something that not a lot of parents are capable of doing with their children nowadays. And I'm sure the reason for that is they're not adults either, they received participation trophy's too. The last few generations have been given more and more free stuff by their parents (their parents falsely claim they care about them). If they really cared they would make the children learn what the real world is like instead of trying to shield them from it, but that would be mean wouldn't it? (You were given free schitt so you think your kids deserve even more free schitt, don't you)?

So the parents of these last 2 generations label everybody who disagrees with them as racists, homophobes, bigots, white supremacists, etc, etc, etc. The biggest problem with the labelers is they're perfectly happy with a certain class of people being "slaves" to their feelings/policies, it's called financial slavery (which is actually worse than what they've labeled the nay sayers). This is all about the labelers feeling good about themselves because it makes them look like they "really care" about the poor and destitute of the country when they really don't. The policies they tout will make others poor and destitute too, but that doesn't really matter that they're destructive to man. It's all about them feeling good about themselves and being popular with their stupid friends/family.

The real world awaits you stick your head thru the window/door in the wall of hypocrisy you've built around yourself to keep the nay sayers out. Go visit some other countries (I'm not talking about EU socialist where you were raised, real schittholes like Africa and ME) and you'll find most of the people just want a way to provide for their families and be free to chose the way they do it. Not have some government panoche hand them a few scraps, a cardboard box to live in and a bunch of hollow promises (lies), which is all the socialistic types have to offer... And if it weren't for us mean Americans you'd still be part of Germany or the USSR being their financial slaves...

Vegetarians eat vegetables. Beware of humanitarians!

CZ82  posted on  2018-08-12   9:10:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: GrandIsland (#20)

“Assholes” are important, ba ba ba Fucky. That’s why everyone has one.

So where did yours (Gatlin) run off to??

Vegetarians eat vegetables. Beware of humanitarians!

CZ82  posted on  2018-08-12   9:11:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: CZ82, Vicomte13 (#21)

If they [liberal zombies] really cared they would make the children learn what the real world is like instead of trying to shield them from it, but that would be mean wouldn't it? (You were given free schitt so you think your kids deserve even more free schitt, don't you)?

So the parents of these last 2 generations label everybody who disagrees with them as racists, homophobes, bigots, white supremacists, etc, etc, etc. The biggest problem with the labelers is they're perfectly happy with a certain class of people being "slaves" to their feelings/policies, it's called financial slavery...

The policies they tout will make others poor and destitute too, but that doesn't really matter that they're destructive to man. It's all about them feeling good about themselves and being popular with their stupid friends/family.

The real world awaits you...And if it weren't for us mean Americans you'd still be part of Germany or the USSR being their financial slaves...

OUTSTANDING RANT!

Liberator  posted on  2018-08-12   10:44:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: GrandIsland, Vicomte13 (#11)

Vic can’t help his weaknesses. He’s been brainwashed by the libtard propaganda machine. He’s ok.

Yes, he is ok. I like Vic. But I'm worried about him. He's been careening Left-ward rapidly. But why??

IS it the Left's propaganda machine that's influencing him?

Vic: I can't help but note you're becoming more heavily Humanist-Secularist in personal philosophy. Hey, it's *your* life and opinion....but WHY the Big Change?

Liberator  posted on  2018-08-12   10:50:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: CZ82, GrandIsland (#22)

So where did yours (Gatlin) run off to??

Back to washing dishes at his local ACLU clubhouse kitchen? HuffPo/DU forums?

Liberator  posted on  2018-08-12   10:54:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: CZ82 (#14)

Ocasio-Cortez Won’t Debate Shapiro Because He’s ‘Sexist’, So Conservative Ladies Step Up

Can you believe this Commie-broad darling??

ANY conservative women would chew her up and spit her out in ANY debate.

Her ONLY chance is a Debate FIX. And even at that she's mentally-intellectually ill-equipped. The GOP has to make her one-half of The Face of the Dem-Donkey Party; The OTHER half is Maxine-James Brown.

Liberator  posted on  2018-08-12   11:04:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Liberator (#25)

Back to washing dishes at his local ACLU clubhouse kitchen? HuffPo/DU forums?

More like plunging toilets for them, they're so full of shit at those places they need a full time bathroom attendant.

Some people have these little ploys they like to pull on other posters, I see it on every forum I've ever been on. His little ploy is he's smart and you're a stupid nincompoop. And when his bullschitt ploy comes back to bite/haunt him it's time to runaway for awhile and hope people forget what happened. Sooner or later he'll be back as himself or with another pseudo name, they just can't resist.

Vegetarians eat vegetables. Beware of humanitarians!

CZ82  posted on  2018-08-12   12:16:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Liberator (#24)

But I'm worried about him. He's been careening Left-ward rapidly

I’ll submit that he’s been that way since you’ve known him... and there are quite a few more that purposely hide the amount of LEFT in them, to have a place to post, after being de-nutted by the wheelchair RINO.

All it takes is a love for anti government, and all the Paultards here or on LP will embrace you... as long as you hide your love for welfare, abortion, open borders and drugs.

I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح

GrandIsland  posted on  2018-08-12   12:20:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Liberator (#26)

Her ONLY chance is a Debate FIX. And even at that she's mentally-intellectually ill-equipped.

She's just a good little drone for who knows who, someone is paying her way.

She's nothing more than a female Obama (another community organizer) who preys on stupid people so they can reap the rewards and get rich. Obozo played it all the way to the White Hut and now lives off of rich Democrap donors who are still stupid enough to give him money even though he was/is a failure.

Vegetarians eat vegetables. Beware of humanitarians!

CZ82  posted on  2018-08-12   12:22:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Liberator (#26)

Can you believe this Commie-broad darling??

If I were a single dude, I’d bend her over the hood of a patrol car... and cross those crazy eyeballs of hers... but I’d not give her the time of her life, twice. She’s a loony kook.

I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح

GrandIsland  posted on  2018-08-12   12:24:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Liberator (#23) (Edited)

OUTSTANDING RANT!

I normally don't do rants cause with a lot of folks that's just their way of attempting to baffle with bullschitt, short and sweet is better.

Where would all of these so called "successful" socialist countries be without America footing the bill for NATO and other defense programs? (I think we're about to find out).

Maybe we should send them some of our minorities to go along with the Muzzy's they're importing and see how that works out for them?

Oh wait, never mind that would mean we would have to up the timetable by 20 years for having to save them from themselves again. We're going to have to do that sooner or later and this would hasten the inevitable...

Vegetarians eat vegetables. Beware of humanitarians!

CZ82  posted on  2018-08-12   12:34:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: CZ82 (#29)

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-08-12   15:37:15 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: A K A Stone (#32)

Speaking of retards......

Is This the Next Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez?

Ayanna Pressley says the Democratic Party needs new blood. She’ll have to take down a popular incumbent to make her case.

By JOANNA WEISS | August 12, 2018

A few weeks before Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez won her New York congressional primary, Boston City Councilor Ayanna Pressley spoke to roomful of young Democrats at the Bell-in-Hand, a Boston tavern that dates back to 1795. She was explaining why she should unseat a congressman who, she suggested, might as well have been in office for that long.

It wasn’t that her opponent in Massachusetts’ 7th District, 10-term Rep. Michael Capuano, had a voting record that was objectionable, or had neglected the district for a national profile—the standard complaints you hear in a primary challenge. Instead, it was a question of approach, of personal history translated to legislative priorities, of the value in filling Massachusetts’ only majority-minority district—currently served by a 66-year-old white man—with a 44-year-old black woman who has experienced the struggles of the inner city. Pressley talked, with a lyrical lilt, about growing up in Chicago with a single mother; her father’s incarceration; her survival of sexual assault. She said she’d draw renewed attention to the economic and social disparities within the district, the way income and life expectancy vary precinct by precinct.

Rest of the article is at the link:

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/08/12/ayanna-pressley- massachusetts-democrats-progressives-219352

Vegetarians eat vegetables. Beware of humanitarians!

CZ82  posted on  2018-08-12   16:27:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: CZ82 (#21)

The real world awaits you

The real world is one in which we have had Social Security, Unemployment Benefits and regulated working hours for 85 years, and government subsidized health care and food and housing support for the poor for 54 years.

I live in the real world, and I support the parameters of the real world as they exist. The majority of people do.

You are the kook out in the fever swamp pretending that I have to convince you of something in order to maintain the reasonable social safety net we already have in place. But I have already won this war. The status quo is what I want. I'd like it to be run BETTER, more efficiently, and more effectively, but the basic structure is pretty robust, if imperfect.

So, I don't have to do anything but stand pat, and I already have 80% of what I want. You have pretty much 0% of what you want, but you scream and bellow at me AS THOUGH you were in power and your ideas ruled the roost. Actually, your belief system was defeated on the political battlefield and plowed under nearly a century ago. You bellyache and scream, which is your right, but the REAL world is the world I describe, and like - that you scream about AS THOUGH I were trying to persuade you to let it be put into place.

It ALREADY IS in place. I've ALREADY WON this war. YOU are screaming and bellyaching like a defeated German or a defeated Confederate AS THOUGH I have to persuade you of anything. You insult me AS THOUGH I were appealing to you, trying to get something from you.

Actually, my position is that I'd prefer to discuss these things rationally, but if you won't then FUCK YOU, KEEP HANDING OVER A THIRD OF WHAT YOU EARN, OR THE ARMED OFFICERS OF MY STATE WILL COME SHOOT YOU IN THE FACE. My side won, your side lost, and you WILL pay tribute, or we will put you in a cage. THAT is the REAL world. You will OBEY my moral imperativea, and you WILL pay heavy taxes to support MY moral imperatives, and I will give your views precisely FUCK ALL, because we won and you lost.

THAT is the real world. I slum here with the likes of you to try to have a reasonable conversation, but you talk like somebody who is actually in charge, whose ideas are actually the laws. In the REAL world my ideas are the laws, and people who think like me are in charge.

I don't hate you out of the box. I have empathy for your plight (real, not faux), and I would like to help you see why your position is too extreme, and why we can't go back to the sort of world you want. But you respond with such contempt, vitriol and hatred that finally I come to the shoulder shrug. Ok, you're miserable. You hate the real world. You're never going to calm yourself down. Fine. Just pay your taxes to keep my programs going, and I won't have to send the goon squad to shoot you. Capisce?

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-08-12   17:09:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Liberator (#24)

He's been careening Left-ward rapidly.

I haven't moved at all. I was Catholic, and I remain Catholic.

I have always opposed abortion, for example: it is the killing of the innocent. And therefore I oppose the death penalty as we administer it, because we kill the innocent. I could support the death penalty if we had the protections in place that God put into place when he instituted it in Israel, but we won't, and therefore I oppose the death penalty. I was arguing those same positions in 1995 as a 1L in law school. I haven't moved at all.

When it comes to war, I can support a truly just war, that is fought with the goal of swift and decisive victory, but wars of empire are not that. The Cold War against the USSR was a just war. The War on Terror COULD have been, but we turned it into a forever war for empire, and that renders it unjust.

I have the same view of Social Security as Ronald Reagan - he was a lifelong supporter of it.

If my tone has changed, it is because I've gotten more muscular in my reply to abuse of the things I believe.

Also, I've gotten a lot more frank about being the adult in the room. Our society has by and large come down on my side of most things, so I am largely simply supporting the status quo. It is fine when people oppose the status quo. It is delusional when they pretend that their cranky opinions are the status quo. Cranky, delusional people are not shy about treating the people who disagree with them like shit. And hey, guess what, I can treat them like shit in reply too! It isn't as though they don't deserve it.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-08-12   17:22:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: GrandIsland (#28)

I’ll submit that he’s been that way since you’ve known him... and there are quite a few more that purposely hide the amount of LEFT in them,

I have been this way all along, and I've never hidden the amount of God in me.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-08-12   17:27:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Vicomte13 (#35)

And therefore I oppose the death penalty as we administer it, because we kill the innocent. I could support the death penalty if we had the protections in place that God put into place when he instituted

Jesus didn't say that so you don't believe it. You said you don't believe the Bible. Another Vic hypocrisy.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-08-12   18:57:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: A K A Stone (#37)

Jesus didn't say that so you don't believe it. You said you don't believe the Bible. Another Vic hypocrisy.

I guess I have to put up with your obtuseness as long as I post here.

It is true: we are not bound to the judicial rules of the Old Testament, but they DO safeguard against killing the innocent - and Jesus DID say not to kill the innocent (or anybody else). So, we are not OBLIGATED to impose the Old Testament rules of evidence and trial, but we ARE obliged, by Jesus, to not kill the innocent.

Our existing processes kill the innocent. By pointing to the Old Testament rules, I pointed to a set of rules that will prevent killing the innocent by mistake. True, we don't have to use those particular rules. We could come up with some other set of rules. I am content with the Old Testament set, because they would obviously address the issue, and also because I would assume that God-squadding bible-thumpers like yourself would not put up opposition to using a biblical standard.

But it's true, we are not required to use those procedures. We DO, however, have to obey Jesus and not kill the innocent. Right now we kill the innocent, so I oppose the death penalty. You apparently don't like the Biblical standard, since you're attacking it (and attacking me for proposing it) - so you've knocked that out as a standard.

Knock that out, and I'm left with Jesus saying not to kill, and no standard on offer to avoid killing, therefore I must oppose the death penalty absolutely. We can't kill the innocent, and you won't allow the Biblical standard for determining guilt. So we're left with no reliable standard I can think of. I still have the commandment from Jesus to not kill the innocent, so I'm left simply opposing the death penalty outright.

If that's what you want too, then we're in agreement. I suspect that you very much want the death penalty to remain, because you're an un-Christian hard-ass who equates your right wing politics with what Jesus and the Bible said. So, you're going to want a death penalty that doesn't have the protections of the innocent that God's Old Testament procedures have, and you're going to support a judicial system that ends up killing the innocent. So, essentially, your politics trump Jesus and you think that's entirely reasonable and Christian because...you're an American Right Winger, and that's exactly the way you hypocrites reason.

But the reasoning is flawed, and therefore unpersuasive, and the country keeps drifting towards me and away from you. Deus vult.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-08-12   20:58:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Vicomte13 (#38)

and Jesus DID say not to kill the innocent

Yes he did.

You said to shoot cz82 in the face if he resists theft.

You worship yourself. You're not Catholic or you would believe differently. Not your acid trip raising lizards from the dead.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-08-12   22:01:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Vicomte13 (#38)

But it's true, we are not required to use those procedures. We DO, however, have to obey Jesus and not kill the innocent. Right now we kill the innocent, so I oppose the death penalty. You apparently don't like the Biblical standard, since you're attacking it (and attacking me for proposing it) - so you've knocked that out as a standard.

NO I am pointing out the blaring hypocricy of an arrogant hypocrite who speaks out of both sides of his ass cheeks.

You said the old testament is a fable. Now you are saying we should use it.

You are a goofball.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-08-12   22:05:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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