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Title: A Pennsylvania Town Wants to Force an Amish Widow to Give Up Her Outhouse
Source:
Reason
URL Source: https://reason.com/blog
Published: Jul 23, 2018
Author: Zuri Davis
Post Date: 2018-07-23 18:14:46 by Deckard
Keywords: None
Views: 2707
Comments: 16
An Amish widow in Pennsylvania is at the center of a case pitting religious freedom against modern waste management. Sugar Grove Township is attempting to force Iva H. Byler to pay monthly fines of $100 for refusing to hook up her home to the city's public sewer, as required by the state's Sewage Facilities Act. Byler currently uses an outhouse as her religious beliefs prevent her from using electricity, which would be required to connect to the public sewer. The town has argued that Byler has failed to satisfactorily show how a sewage connection would harm her religious liberties, and therefore must pay the fines. In April 2017, a Warren County judge sided with Sugar Grove and ordered Byler to pay up. This decision was reversed on Friday by state Judge Patricia A. McCullough, who ruled that the state's religious freedom law protected Byler's right to maintain her unconnected outhouse. In addition to Byler's religious freedom, McCullough also argued that Byler could not possibly pay the fines as she had no source of income and relied on support from her sons, who are carpenters. The case is part of a larger fight between Sugar Grove Township and the Old Order Amish community. Earlier in the year, the Yoder family of Warren County was ordered to connect to the public sewer. The family, which is also Old Order, was forced to do so despite the need to use electricity and foot the cost in the process. Senior Staff Attorney Sara Rose of the American Civil Liberties Union said the decision "didn't consider the other ways that the government could have achieved its ends." "What we have here is a situation, perhaps one of frustration, where the township has been unable to force the Old Order Amish to connect their homes to the sewer systems which requires an electric grinder pump," wrote Bernard Hessley, Byler's lawyer. Hessley said the Amish community was willing to move to another town or even to New York so that they could practice their religious beliefs. A Pennsylvania town is trying to force an Amish widow to ignore her religious beliefs in the name of public utilities.
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#1. To: Deckard (#0)
Huh?
Huh? " " the township has been unable to force the Old Order Amish to connect their homes to the sewer systems which requires an electric grinder pump,". IDK, but sounds like an aerator system. We use to own a home that had one. It was not a public sewer. It had been installed there because there was no public sewer, and the ground would not " perk " enough for a typical septic system, so the previous owner that built the house chose that option. And if she has to use that system, she will need to use electricity.
Si vis pacem, para bellum Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God. Never Pick A Fight With An Old Man He Will Just Shoot You He Can't Afford To Get Hurt "If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." (Will Rogers) AMERICA! Designed by geniuses. Now run by idiots.
Perhaps I should have read the entire article. I can understand a grinder pump for a septic system under the conditions you describe. But I don't understand one for a public sewer system.
I agree. I don't understand it either. Whoever wrote the article either wrote it badly, or got bad information. I was told that with the Aerator System, a leach bed was not required. Our overflow just went over the hill, and soaked into the ground ( no solids ). No smell. The system is like a mini waste treatment system. Of course, each state is probably different. I suspect that what is really going on, is the local village is just wanting to force them onto their city system, so they are forcing them to be a "customer", and add to the number of checks they get each month. IDK, but that is my guess. All government agencies are hungry for revenue, Feds, States, counties, even little villages. Forcing someone to hook up to their system is another way to generate revenue. And forcing her to use a Aerator System will only add water to their system, no cost to the village. Sounds pretty unnecessary to me. Sounds like there is more than just the old lady. It says " Old Order Amish to connect their homes "( homes plural ). Article only mentions her. Don't know how many other Amish are being forced onto it. Most Amish congregate together, and live on farms. I have not heard of them congregating on city lots. Maybe they do someplaces, but I have not heard of it. Or, maybe the city has annexed their area into the city. I can see the city doing that, and the Amish did not object. They tend to avoid using lawyers, and having a ruckus. They would be easy pickings. Sewers today, regulations / ordinances about livestock etc tomorrow. It will not end with the sewage issue. Anyway, sounds like the local govt is forcing this on them, and I would assume she is not the only one. For the city, could generate a lot of money for them, at very little expense to the city. Will be interesting to see how this turns out.
Si vis pacem, para bellum Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God. Never Pick A Fight With An Old Man He Will Just Shoot You He Can't Afford To Get Hurt "If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." (Will Rogers) AMERICA! Designed by geniuses. Now run by idiots.
I misspoke in my last post. The system we had, the "overflow" went through perforated pipe which zig zagged through the back yard which had a fairly steep decline, then went over the hill. Very different from a typical leach bed, but still the end went over the hill.
Si vis pacem, para bellum Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God. Never Pick A Fight With An Old Man He Will Just Shoot You He Can't Afford To Get Hurt "If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." (Will Rogers) AMERICA! Designed by geniuses. Now run by idiots.
We're on well and septic. If and when the city runs water and sewer lines everyone will have to pay to hook up, even though most are happy with their current system. If you gave people the choice, probably 90% would choose not to hook up, making it very expensive for those who do.
If you gave people the choice, probably 90% would choose not to hook up, making it very expensive for those who do. " We are on well and septic also. But, we are out in the county, no worry with the city. A few years ago, the county water system ran lines out here. I really did not need it. But all the neighbors wanted us to sign up for it. Said if they did not get one more to sign, that they would not run it. I reluctantly signed up, to be a good neighbor. Got a tap and meter, but have not hooked up. I figure it is insurance in case our well ever pukes. Hopefully, will never need it !
Si vis pacem, para bellum Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God. Never Pick A Fight With An Old Man He Will Just Shoot You He Can't Afford To Get Hurt "If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." (Will Rogers) AMERICA! Designed by geniuses. Now run by idiots.
Ever seen a auto flushing outhouse, my Aunt has one. There is a spring up on the side of the mountain that runs under the road and into a ditch that runs thru her front yard all the way down to the creek. You use the water in that ditch to clean your boots when your done mucking the barn and they built a slightly elevated outhouse over the top of it a little further down the ditch. Since the cattle also have access to the creek nobody would ever notice a few extra floaters and a few bits of toilet paper. lol Needless to say it being elevated like that it can be mighty drafty at times so they also have facilities inside the house that have to be manually emptied once a day. The only running water they have in the house is the old well pumps like these, one in the downstairs kitchen and one in the summer kitchen upstairs. Vegetarians eat vegetables. Beware of humanitarians!
No, have not seen as you describe. But, I have seen, and used pumps like in your picture.
Si vis pacem, para bellum Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God. Never Pick A Fight With An Old Man He Will Just Shoot You He Can't Afford To Get Hurt "If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." (Will Rogers) AMERICA! Designed by geniuses. Now run by idiots.
If they ran water and sewer out here it would cost around $5,000 to hook up -- plus, of course, a monthly fee based on usage. Right now it's free.
Quite a few of the homes I built in San Mateo Co, up in the hills, needed a grinder pump to hook up to the sewer system.. --- Shit doesn't flow uphill.. Didn't add much to the cost..
The first 11 years of my life we lived in a house that only had a biffy.. Damn cold in those Minnesota winters...
" grinder pump " ?? So, what did you install, a aerator system ? Or, was it a Lift Station ?
Si vis pacem, para bellum Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God. Never Pick A Fight With An Old Man He Will Just Shoot You He Can't Afford To Get Hurt "If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." (Will Rogers) AMERICA! Designed by geniuses. Now run by idiots.
Yep, -- typically, the sewage from the house would go into a holding tank, then the pump would force it up into the sewer system..
OK, thanks. Why do they call it a "grinder" ? Does it break up the solids ? Thereby making it easier to pump up hill ? Around here, lift stations are only installed by city sewer departments, and are usually of a size to take care of at least one or more streets, not individual homes.
Si vis pacem, para bellum Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God. Never Pick A Fight With An Old Man He Will Just Shoot You He Can't Afford To Get Hurt "If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." (Will Rogers) AMERICA! Designed by geniuses. Now run by idiots.
Yep, makes it all a liquid, and pumps it up to the city sewer. I even put one in a house on the flats, where we wanted a full bathroom in the basement, about 3_feet below the sewer line running down the street...
her religious beliefs prevent her from using electricity, which would be required to connect to the public sewer.
#2. To: misterwhite (#1)
" her religious beliefs prevent her from using electricity, which would be required to connect to the public sewer.
#3. To: Stoner (#2)
" the township has been unable to force the Old Order Amish to connect their homes to the sewer systems which requires an electric grinder pump,".
#4. To: misterwhite (#3)
" I can understand a grinder pump for a septic system under the conditions you describe. But I don't understand one for a public sewer system. "
#5. To: misterwhite (#4)
#6. To: Stoner (#4)
I suspect that what is really going on, is the local village is just wanting to force them onto their city system,
#7. To: misterwhite (#6)
" We're on well and septic. If and when the city runs water and sewer lines everyone will have to pay to hook up, even though most are happy with their current system.
#8. To: Stoner (#5)
#9. To: CZ82 (#8)
#10. To: Stoner (#7)
#11. To: Stoner (#2)
the township has been unable to force the Old Order Amish to connect their homes to the sewer systems which requires an electric grinder pump,".
#12. To: Stoner (#9)
I have seen, and used pumps like in your picture.
#13. To: tpaine (#11)
" homes I built in San Mateo Co, up in the hills, needed a grinder pump to hook up to the sewer system.. --- Shit doesn't flow uphill.. "
#14. To: Stoner (#13)
was it a Lift Station ?
#15. To: tpaine (#14)
#16. To: Stoner (#15)
Does it break up the solids ? Thereby making it easier to pump up hill ? Around here, lift stations are only installed by city sewer departments,
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