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Title: What's wrong with libertarianism
Source:
zompist.com
URL Source: https://www.zompist.com/libertos.html
Published: Jul 22, 2018
Author: Zompist
Post Date: 2018-07-22 07:16:35 by Gatlin
Keywords: None
Views: 4560
Comments: 44
Apparently someone's curse worked: we live in interesting times, and among other consequences, for no good reason we have a surplus of libertarians. With this article I hope to help keep the demand low, or at least to explain to libertarian correspondents why they don't impress me with comments like "You sure love letting people steal your money!" This article has been rewritten, for two reasons. First, the original article had sidebars to address common objections. From several people's reactions, it seems that they never read these. They're now incorporated into the text. Second, and more importantly, many people who call themselves libertarians didn't recognize themselves in the description. There are libertarians and libertarians, and sometimes different camps despise each other-- or don't seem to be aware of each other. If you-- ...then this page isn't really addressed to you. You're probably more of what I'd call a small-government conservative; and if you voted against Bush, we can probably get along just fine. On the other hand, you might want to stick around to see what your more fundamentalist colleagues are saying. Libertarianism strikes me as if someone (let's call her "Ayn Rand") sat down to create the Un-Communism. Thus: Does this sound exaggerated? Let's listen to Murray Rothbard: Or here's Lew Rockwell on Rothbard (emphasis mine): Thomas DiLorenzo on worker activism: "[L]abor unions [pursue] policies which impede the very institutions of capitalism that are the cause of their own prosperity." Or Ludwig von Mises: "What is today euphemistically called the right to strike is in fact the right of striking workers, by recourse to violence, to prevent people who want to work from working." (Employer violence is apparently acceptable.) The Libertarian Party platform explains that workers have no right to protest drug tests, and supports the return of child labor. On Nietzsche, as one of my correspondents puts it, some libertarians love Nietzsche; others have read him. (Though I would respond that some people idolize executives; others have worked for them.) Nonetheless, I think the Nietzschean atmosphere of burning rejection of conventional morality, exaltation of the will to power, and scorn for womanish Christian compassion for the masses, is part of the roots of libertarianism. It's unmistakable in Ayn Rand. The more important point, however, is that the capitalist is the über-villain for communists, and a glorious hero for libertarians; that property is "theft" for the communists, and a "natural right" for libertarians. These dovetail a little too closely for coincidence. It's natural enough, when a basic element of society is attacked as an evil, for its defenders to counter-attack by elevating it into a principle. As we should have learned from the history of communism and fascism, however, contradiction is no guarantee of truth; it can lead one into an opposite error instead. And many who rejected communism nonetheless remained zealots. People who leave one ideological extreme usually end up at the other, either quickly (David Horowitz) or slowly (Mario Vargas Llosa). If you're the sort of person who likes absolutes, you want them even if all your other convictions change. The methodology isn't much different either: oppose the obvious evils of the world with a fairy tale. The communist of 1910 couldn't point to a single real-world instance of his utopia; neither can the present-day libertarian. Yet they're unshakeable in their conviction that it can and must happen. Academic libertarians love abstract, fact-free arguments-- often, justifications for why property is an absolute right. As a random example, from one James Craig Green: The first paragraph is pure fantasy, and is simply untrue as a portrait of "primitive tribes", which are generally extremely collectivist by American standards. The second sounds good precisely because it leaves out all the actual facts of American history: the settlers' land was not "unowned" but stolen from the Indians by state conquest (and much of it stolen from the Mexicans as well); the lands were granted to the settlers by government; the communities were linked to the national economy by railroads founded by government grant; the crops were adapted to local conditions by land grant colleges. Thanks to my essay on taxes, I routinely get mail featuring impassioned harangues which never once mention a real-world fact-- or which simply make up the statistics they want. This sort of balls-out aggressivity probably wins points at parties, where no one is going to take down an almanac and check their figures; but to me it's a cardinal sin. If someone has an answer for everything, advocates changes which have never been tried, and presents dishonest evidence, he's a crackpot. If a man has no doubts, it's because his hypothesis is unfalsifiable. Distaste for facts isn't merely a habit of a few Internet cranks; it's actually libertarian doctrine, the foundation of the 'Austrian school'. Here's Ludwig von Mises in Epistemological Problems of Economics: The 'other sources' turn out to be armchair ruminations on how things must be. It's true enough that economics is not physics; but that's not warrant to turn our backs on the methods of science and return to scholastic speculation. Economics should always move in the direction of science, experiment, and falsifiability. If it were really true that it cannot, then no one, including the libertarians, would be entitled to strong belief in any economic program. Some people aren't much bothered by libertarianism's lack of real-world success. After all, they argue, if no one tried anything new, nothing would ever change. In fact, I'm all for experimentation; that's how we learn. Create a libertarian state. But run it as a proper experiment. Start small- scale. Establish exactly how your claims will be tested: per capita income? median income? life expectancy? property value? surveys on happiness? Set up a control: e.g. begin with two communities as close as we can get them in size, initial wealth, resources, and culture, one following liberalism, one following libertarianism. Abide by the results-- no changing the goalposts if the liberals happen to "win". I'm even willing to look at partial tests. If an ideology is really better than others at producing general prosperity, then following it partially should produce partially better results. Jonathan Kwitny suggested comparing a partly socialist system (e.g. Tanzania) to a partly capitalist one (e.g. Kenya). (Kenya looked a lot better.) If the tests are partial, of course, we'll want more of them; but human experience is pretty broad. It's the libertarians, not me, who stand in the way of such accountability. If I point out examples of nations partially following libertarian views-- we'll get to this below-- I'm told that they don't count: only Pure Real Libertarianism Of My Own Camp can be tested. Again, all-or-nothing thinking generally goes with intellectual fraud. If a system is untestable, it's because its proponents fear testing. By contrast, I'm confident enough in liberal and scientific values that I'm happy to see even partial adoption. Even a little freedom is better than dictatorship. Even a little science is better than ideology. An untested political system unfortunately has great rhetorical appeal. Since we can't see it in action, we can't point out its obvious faults, while the ideologue can be caustic about everything that has actually been tried, and which has inevitably fallen short of perfection. Perhaps that's why Dave Barry and Trey Parker are libertarians. But I'd rather vote for a politician who's shown that his programs work in the real world than for a humorist, however amusing. At this point some libertarian readers are pumping their hands in the air like a piston, anxious to explain that their ideal isn't Rothbard or von Mises or Hayek, but the Founding Fathers. Nice try. Everybody wants the Founders on their side; but it was a different country back then-- 95% agricultural, low density, highly homogenous, primitive in technology-- and modern libertarianism simply doesn't apply. (The OED's citations of the word for the time are all theological.) All American political movements have their roots in the 1700s-- indeed, in the winning side, since Loyalist opinion essentially disappeared. We are all-- liberals, conservatives, libertarians-- against the Georgian monarchy and for the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. You can certainly find places where one Founder or another rants against government; you can find other places where one Founder or another rants against rebellion, anarchy, and the opponents of federalism. Sometimes the same Founder can be quoted on both sides. They were a mixed bunch, and lived long enough lives to encounter different situations. The Constitution is above all a definition of a strengthened government, and the Federalist Papers are an extended argument for it. The Founders negotiated a balance between a government that was arbitrary and coercive (their experience as British colonial subjects) and one that was powerless and divided (the failed Articles of Confederation). The Founders didn't anticipate the New Deal-- there was no need for them to-- but they were as quick to resort to the resources of the state as any modern liberal. Ben Franklin, for instance, played the Pennsylvania legislature like a violin-- using it to fund a hospital he wanted to establish, for instance. Obviously he had no qualms about using state power to do good social works. It's also worth pointing out that the Founders' words were nobler than their deeds. Most were quite comfortable with slave-owning, for instance. No one worried about women's consent to be governed. Washington's own administration made it a crime to criticize the government. And as Robert Allen Rutland reminds us, The process of giving life to our constitutional rights has largely been the work of liberals. On the greatest fight of all, to treat blacks as human beings, libertarians supported the other side. Crackpots are usually harmless; how about the Libertarian Party? In itself, I'm afraid, it's nothing but a footnote. It gets no more than 1% of the vote-- a showing that's been surpassed historically by the Anti-Masonic Party, the Greenbacks, the Prohibition Party, the Socialists, the Greens, and whatever John Anderson was. If that was all it was, I wouldn't bother to devote pages and rants to it. I'm all for the expression of pure eccentricity in politics; I like the Brits' Monster Raving Looney Party even better. Why are libertarian ideas important? Because of their influence on the Republican Party. They form the ideological basis for the Reagan/Gingrich/Bush revolution. The Republicans have taken the libertarian "Government is Bad" horse and ridden far with it: Maybe this use of their ideas is appalling to 'Real Libertarians'... well, it's an appalling world sometimes. Is it fair to communism that everyone thinks its Leninist manifestation is the only possible one? Do you think I'm happy to have national representatives like Dukakis, Gore, and Kerry? At least some libertarians have understood the connection. Rothbard again, writing in 1994: Can you smell the compromise here? Hold your nose and vote for the Repubs, boys. But then don't pretend to be uninvolved when the Republicans start making a mockery of limited government. There's a deeper lesson here, and it's part of why I don't buy libertarian portraits of the future utopia. Movements out of power are always anti-authoritarian; it's no guarantee that they'll stay that way. Communists before 1917 promised the withering away of the state. Fascists out of power sounded something like socialists. The Republicans were big on term limits when they could be used to unseat Democrats; they say nothing about them today. If you don't think it can happen to you, you're not being honest about human nature and human history. The Libertarian Party has a cute little test that purports to divide American politics into four quadrants. There's the economic dimension (where libertarians ally with conservatives) and the social dimension (where libertarians ally with liberals). I think the diagram is seriously misleading, because visually it gives equal importance to both dimensions. And when the rubber hits the road, libertarians almost always go with the economic dimension. The libertarian philosopher always starts with property rights. Libertarianism arose in opposition to the New Deal, not to Prohibition. The libertarian voter is chiefly exercised over taxes, regulation, and social programs; the libertarian wing of the Republican party has, for forty years, gone along with the war on drugs, corporate welfare, establishment of dictatorships abroad, and an alliance with theocrats. Christian libertarians like Ron Paul want God in the public schools and are happy to have the government forbid abortion and gay marriage. I never saw the libertarians objecting to Bush Sr. mocking the protection of civil rights, or to Ken Starr's government inquiry into politicians' sex lives. On the Cato Institute's list of recent books, I count 1 of 19 dealing with an issue on which libertarians and liberals tend to agree, and that was on foreign policy (specifically, the Iraq war). If this is changing, as Bush's never-ending "War on Terror" expands the powers of government, demonizes dissent, and enmeshes the country in military crusades and nation- building, as the Republicans push to remove the checks and balances that remain in our government system-- if libertarians come to realize that Republicans and not Democrats are the greater threat to liberty-- I'd be delighted. But for that, you know, you have to vote against Bush. A belief in social liberties means little if you vote for a party that clearly intends to restrict them. For the purposes of my critique, however, the social side of libertarianism is irrelevant. A libertarian and I might actually agree to legalize drugs, let people marry whoever they like, and repeal the Patriot Act. But this has nothing to do with whether robber baron capitalism is a good thing. The libertarianism that has any effect in the world, then, has nothing to do with social liberty, and everything to do with removing all restrictions on business. So what's wrong with that? Let's look at some cases that came within spitting distance of the libertarian ideal. Some libertarians won't like these, because they are not Spotless Instances of the Free Utopia; but as I've said, nothing is proved by science fiction. If complete economic freedom and absence of government is a cure-all, partial economic freedom and limited government should be a cure-some. At the turn of the 20th century, business could do what it wanted-- and it did. The result was robber barons, monopolistic gouging, management thugs attacking union organizers, filth in our food, a punishing business cycle, slavery and racial oppression, starvation among the elderly, gunboat diplomacy in support of business interests. The New Deal itself was a response to crisis (though by no means an unprecedented one; it wasn't much worse than the Gilded Age depressions). A quarter of the population was out of work. Five thousand banks failed, destroying the savings of 9 million families. Steel plants were operating at 12% capacity. Banks foreclosed on a quarter of Mississippi's land. Wall Street was discredited by insider trading and collusion with banks at the expense of investors. Farmers were breaking out into open revolt; miners and jobless city workers were rioting. Don't think, by the way, that if governments don't provide gunboats, no one else will. Corporations will build their own military if necessary: the East Indies Company did; Leopold did in the Congo; management did when fighting with labor. Or take Russia in the decade after the fall of Communism, as advised by free- market absolutists like Jeffrey Sachs. Russian GDP declined 50% in five years. The elite grabbed the assets they could and shuffled them out of Russia so fast that IMF loans couldn't compensate. In 1994 alone, 600 businessmen, journalists, and politicians were murdered by gangsters. Russia lacked a working road system, a banking system, anti-monopoly regulation, effective law enforcement, or any sort of safety net for the elderly and the jobless. Inflation reached 2250% in 1992. Central government authority effectively disappeared in many regions. By the way, Russia is the answer to those testosterone-poisoned folks who think that guns will prevent oppression. The mafia will always outgun you. Today's Russia is moving back toward authoritarianism under Putin. Again, this should dismay libertarians: apparently, given a little freedom, many people will demand less. You'd better be careful about setting up that utopia; ten years further on it may be taken over by authoritarians. Or consider the darling of many an '80s conservative: Pinochet's Chile, installed by Nixon, praised by Jeanne Kirkpatrick, George Bush, and Paul Johnson. In twenty years, foreign debt quadrupled, natural resources were wasted, universal health care was abandoned (leading to epidemics of typhoid fever and hepatitis), unions were outlawed, military spending rose (for what? who the hell is going to attack Chile?), social security was "privatized" (with predictable results: ever-increasing government bailouts) and the poverty rate doubled, from 20% to 41%. Chile's growth rate from 1974 to 1982 was 1.5%; the Latin American average was 4.3%. Pinochet was a dicator, of course, which makes some libertarians feel that they have nothing to learn here. Somehow Chile's experience (say) privatizing social security can tell us nothing about privatizing social security here, because Pinochet was a dictator. Presumably if you set up a business in Chile, the laws of supply and demand and perhaps those of gravity wouldn't apply, because Pinochet was a dictator. When it's convenient, libertarians even trumpet their association with Chile's "free market" policies; self-gov.org (originators of that cute quiz) includes a page celebrating Milton Friedman, self-proclaimed libertarian, who helped form and advise the group of University of Chicago professors and graduates who implemented Pinochet's policies. The Cato Institute even named a prize for "Advancing Liberty" after this benefactor of the Chilean dictatorship. The newest testing ground for laissez-faire is present-day America, from Ronald Reagan on. Remove the New Deal, and the pre-New Deal evils clamor to return. Reagan removed the right to strike; companies now fire strikers, outsource high-wage jobs and replace them with dead-end near-minimum-wage service jobs. Middle-class wages are stagnating-- or plummeting, if you consider that working hours are rising. Companies are rushing to reestablish child labor in the Third World. Under liberalism, productivity increases benefited all classes-- poverty rates declined from over 30% to under 10% in the thirty years after World War II, while the economy more than quadrupled in size. In the current libertarian climate, productivity gains only go to the already well-off. Here's the percentage of US national income received by certain percentiles of the population, as reported by the IRS: This should put some perspective on libertarian whining about high taxes and how we're destroying incentives for the oppressed businessman. The wealthiest 1% of the population doubled their share of the pie in just 15 years. In 1973, CEOs earned 45 times the pay of an average employee (about twice the multipler in Japan); today it's 500 times. Thirty years ago, managers accepted that they operated as much for their workers, consumers, and neighbors as for themselves. Some economists (notably Michael Jensen and William Meckling) decided that the only stakeholders that mattered were the stock owners-- and that management would be more accountable if they were given massive amounts of stock. Not surprisingly, CEOs managed to get the stock without the accountability-- they're obscenely well paid whether the company does well or it tanks-- and the obsession with stock price led to mass layoffs, short-term thinking, and the financial dishonesty at WorldCom, Enron, Adelphia, HealthSouth, and elsewhere. The nature of our economic system has changed in the last quarter-century, and people haven't understood it yet. People over 30 or so grew up in an environment where the rich got more, but everyone prospered. When productivity went up, the rich got richer-- we're not goddamn communists, after all-- but everybody's income increased. If you were part of the World War II generation, the reality was that you had access to subsidized education and housing, you lived better every year, and you were almost unimaginably better off than your parents. We were a middle-class nation, perhaps the first nation in history where the majority of the people were comfortable. This infuriated the communists (this wasn't supposed to happen). The primeval libertarians who cranky about it as well, but the rich had little reason to complain-- they were better off than ever before, too. Conservatives-- nurtured by libertarian ideas-- have managed to change all that. When productivity rises, the rich now keep the gains; the middle class barely stays where it is; the poor get poorer. We have a ways to go before we become a Third World country, but the model is clear. The goal is an impoverished majority, and a super-rich minority with no effective limitations on its power or earnings. We'll exchange the prosperity of 1950s America for that of 1980s Brazil. Despite the intelligence of many of its supporters, libertarianism is an instance of the simplest (and therefore silliest) type of politics: the single-villain ideology. Everything is blamed on the government. (One libertarian, for instance, reading my list of the evils of laissez-faire above, ignored everything but "gunboats". It's like Gary Larson's cartoon of "What dogs understand", with the dog's name replaced with "government".) The advantage of single-villain ideologies is obvious: in any given situation you never have to think hard to find out the culprit. The disadvantages, however, are worse: you can't see your primary target clearly-- hatred is a pair of dark glasses-- and you can't see the problems with anything else. It's a habit of mind that renders libertarianism unfalsifiable, and thus irrelevant to the world. Everything gets blamed on one institution; and because we have no real-world example where that agency is absent, the claims can't be tested. Not being a libertarian doesn't mean loving the state; it means accepting complexity. The real world is a monstrously complicated place; there's not just one thing wrong with it, nor just one thing that can be changed to fix it. Things like prosperity and freedom don't have one cause; they're a balancing act. Here's an alternative theory for you: original sin. People will mess things up, whether by stupidity or by active malice. There is no magical class of people (e.g. "government") who can be removed to produce utopia. Any institution is liable to failure, or active criminality. Put anyone in power-- whether it's communists or engineers or businessmen-- and they will abuse it. Does this mean things are hopeless? Of course not; it just means that we have to let all institutions balance each other. Government, opposition parties, business, the media, unions, churches, universities, non-government organizations, all watch over each other. Power is distributed as widely as possible to prevent any one institution from monopolizing and abusing it. It's not always a pretty solution, and it can be frustratingly slow and inefficient, but it works better than any alternative I know of. Markets are very good at some things, like deciding what to produce and distributing it. But unrestricted markets don't produce general prosperity, and lawless business can and will abuse its power. Examples can be multiplied ad nauseam: read some history-- or the newspaper. Libertarian responses to such lists are beyond amazing. And those are the better responses. Often enough the only response is explain how nothing bad can happen in the libertarian utopia. But libertarian dogma can't be buttressed by libertarian doctrine-- that's begging the question. Or it's simply denied that these things are problems. One correspondent suggested that the poor shouldn't "complain" about not getting loans-- "I wouldn't make a loan if I didn't think I'd get paid back." This is not only hard-hearted but ignorant. Who says the poor are bad credit risks? It often takes prodding from community organizations, but banks can serve low- income areas well-- both making money and fostering home ownership. Institutions like the Grameen Bank have found that micro-loans work very well, and are profitable, in the poorest countries on Earth, such as Bangladesh. A proven solution to most of these ills is liberalism. For fifty years liberals governed this country, generating unprecedented prosperity, and making this the first solidly middle-class nation. If you want prosperity for the many-- and why should the many support any other goal?-- you need a balance between government and business. For this you need several things: Perhaps the most communicable libertarian meme-- and one of the most mischievous-- is the attempt to paint taxation as theft. First, it's dishonest. Most libertarians theoretically accept government for defense and law enforcement. (There are some absolutists who don't even believe in national defense; I guess they want to have a libertarian utopia for awhile, then hand it over to foreign invaders.) Now, national defense and law enforcement cost money: about 22% of the 2002 budget-- 33% of the non-social-security budget. You can't swallow that and maintain that all taxes are bad. At least the cost of those functions is not "your money"; it's a legitimate charge for necessary services. Americans enjoy the fruits of public scientific research, a well-educated job force, highways and airports, clean food, honest labelling, Social Security, unemployment insurance, trustworthy banks, national parks. Libertarianism has encouraged the peculiarly American delusion that these things come for free. It makes a philosophy out of biting the hand that feeds you. Second, it leads directly to George Bush's financial irresponsibility. Would a libertarian urge his family or his software company or his gun club to spend twice what it takes in? When libertarians maintain that irresponsibility among the poor is such a bad thing, why is it OK in the government? It's no excuse to claim that libertarians didn't want the government to increase spending, as Bush has done. As you judge others, so shall you be judged. Libertarians want to judge liberalism not by its goals (e.g. helping poor children) but by its alleged effects (e.g. teen pregnancy). The easiest things in the world for a politician to do are to lower taxes and raise spending. By attacking the very concept of taxation, libertarians help politicians-- and the public-- to indulge their worst impulses. Finally, it hides dependence on the government. The economic powerhouse of the US is still the Midwest, the Northeast, and California-- largely liberal Democratic areas. As Dean Lacy has pointed out, over the last decade, the blue states of 2004 paid $1.4 trillion more in federal taxes than they received, while red states received $800 billion more than they paid. Red state morality isn't just to be irresponsible with the money they pay as taxes; it's to be irresponsible with other people's money. It's protesting the concept of getting an allowance by stealing the other kids' money. Ultimately, my objection to libertarianism is moral. Arguing across moral gulfs is usually ineffective; but we should at least be clear about what our moral differences are. First, the worship of the already successful and the disdain for the powerless is essentially the morality of a thug. Money and property should not be privileged above everything else-- love, humanity, justice. (And let's not forget that lurid fascination with firepower-- seen in ESR, Ron Paul, Heinlein and Van Vogt, Advocates for Self- Government's president Sharon Harris, the Cato Institute, Lew Rockwell's site, and the Mises Institute.) I wish I could convince libertarians that the extremely wealthy don't need them as their unpaid advocates. Power and wealth don't need a cheering section; they are-- by definition-- not an oppressed class which needs our help. Power and wealth can take care of themselves. It's the poor and the defenseless who need aid and advocates. The libertarians reminds me of G.K. Chesterton's description of people who are so eager to attack a hated ideology that they will destroy their own furniture to make sticks to beat it with. James Craig Green again: Here's a very different moral point of view: Jimmy Carter describing why he builds houses with Habitat for Humanity: Is this "confused hysteria"? No, it's common human decency. It's sad when people have to twist themselves into knots to malign the human desire (and the Biblical command) to help one's neighbor. Second, it's the philosophy of a snotty teen, someone who's read too much Heinlein, absorbed the sordid notion that an intellectual elite should rule the subhuman masses, and convinced himself that reading a few bad novels qualifies him as a member of the elite. Third, and perhaps most common, it's the worldview of a provincial narcissist. As I've observed in my overview of the 20th century, liberalism won its battles so thoroughly that people have forgotten why those battles were fought. It's hard to read libertarians without concluding that they've never been out of the country-- perhaps never out of the suburbs. They don't know what Latin American rule by the elite looks like; they don't know any way of running an industrial economy but that of the US; they don't know what an actually oppressive government looks like; they've never experienced a depression; they've never lived in a slum or experienced racial discrimination. At the same time, they have a very American sense of entitlement: a gut feeling that they've earned the prosperity they were born into, that they owe the community nothing, that they deserve to have whatever they want, that no one should stand in their way. In short, they're spoiled, and they've evolved a philosophy that they should be spoiled. I don't want to leave out the possibility of honest confusion. Some people may be attracted by parts of the libertarian program without buying into its underlying morality. "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." --Franklin D. Roosevelt I have my own articles of faith. I think a political philosophy should On all these counts, libertarianism simply doesn't stack up. Once people are able to be rational about politics, I expect them to toss it out as a practical failure and a moral mess. > Good libertarians and the other kind
The Un-Communism
Communism Libertarianism Property is theft Property is sacred Totalitarianism Any government is bad Capitalists are baby-eating villains Capitalists are noble Nietzchean heroes Workers should rule Worker activism is evil The poor are oppressed The poor are pampered good-for-nothings We contend here, however, that the model of government is akin, not to the business firm, but to the criminal organization, and indeed that the State is the organization of robbery systematized and writ large.
He was also the architect of the body of thought known around the world as libertarianism. This radically anti-state political philosophy unites free-market economics, a no-exceptions attachment to private property rights, a profound concern for human liberty, and a love of peace, with the conclusion that society should be completely free to develop absent any interference from the state, which can and should be eliminated.
Who needs facts?
This concept of property originated in some of those primitive tribes when individuals claimed possessions for themselves as against the collective ownership of their groups. Based on individual initiative, labor, and innovation, some were successful at establishing a separate, private ownership role for themselves. [...]
Examples of natural property in land and water resources have already been given, but deserve more detail. An illustration of how this would be accomplished is a farm with irrigation ditches to grow crops in dry western states. To appropriate unowned natural resources, a settler used his labor to clear the land and dug ditches to carry water from a river for irrigation. Crops were planted, buildings were constructed, and the property thus created was protected by the owner from aggression or the later claims of others. This process was a legitimate creation of property. As there is no discernible regularity in the emergence and concatenation of ideas and judgments of value, and therefore also not in the succession and concatenation of human acts, the role that experience plays in the study of human action is radically different from that which it plays in the natural sciences. Experience of human action is history. Historical experience does not provide facts that could render in the construction of a theoretical science services that could be compared to those which laboratory experiments and observation render to physics. Historical events are always the joint effect of the cooperation of various factors and chains of causation. In matters of human action no experiments can be performed. History needs to be interpreted by theoretical insight gained previously from other sources.
How to try new things
My friend Franklin
It cannot have escaped those who have attended with candor to the arguments employed against the extensive powers of the government, that the authors of them have very little considered how far these powers were necessary means of attaining a necessary end. --James Madison
Stable ownership is the gift of social law, and is given late in the progress of society. --Thomas Jefferson
All the Property that is necessary to a man is his natural Right, which none may justly deprive him of, but all Property superfluous to such Purposes is the property of the Public who, by their Laws have created it and who may, by other Laws dispose of it. --Benjamin Franklin
For almost 150 years, in fact, the Bill of Rights was paid lip service in patriotic orations and ignored in the marketplace. It wasn't until after World War I that the Supreme Court began the process of giving real meaning to the Bill of Rights.
Why are they trouble?
The truth is that since we have been stuck with a two-party system, any electoral revolution against big government had to be expressed through a Republican victory. So it is certainly true that Newt Gingrich and his faction, as well as Robert Dole, have ridden to power on the libertarian wave.
What about the social side?
We tried it, and it failed
Pre-New Deal America
Post-communist Russia
Pinochet's Chile
Destination: Banana Republic
Where the gains go
1986 1999 Top 1% 11.30 19.51 Top 5% 24.11 34.04 Top 10% 35.12 44.89 Top 25% 59.04 66.46 Top 50% 83.34 86.75 Bottom 99% 88.70 80.49 Bottom 95% 75.89 65.96 Bottom 90% 64.88 55.11 Bottom 75% 40.96 33.54 Bottom 50% 16.66 13.25 Welcoming your new overlords
Single-villain ideologies
The problem with markets
Slavery is another example: though some hoped that the market would eventually make it unprofitable, it sure was taking its time, and neither the slave nor the abolitionist had any non-governmental leverage over the slaveowners.
(Libertarians usually claim to oppose slavery... but that's awfully easy to say on this side of Civil War and the civil rights movement. The slaveowners thought they were defending their sacred rights to property and self-government.) A balanced society
Government costs money
Unacceptable morality
Typical excuses are "the common good", "public morality", "traditional family values", "human rights", "environmental protection", "national security", and "equality". Each appeals to the confused hysteria of a segment of the population. Each allows property to be denied its rightful owner. Each denies the concept of self-ownership.
From my rural boyhood, when I often spent the night with black neighbors who lived in unheated and dilapidated shacks, to my years in the White House when I saw the plight of the homeless and those trapped in poverty housing worldwide, I have known that shelter matters. And I know, as a Christian, that I have a responsibility to serve where I can, that as I treat "the least of these", I treat my Creator.
The bottom line
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#1. To: Gatlin (#0)
(Edited)
Source: zompist.com A better question would be: "What's wrong with Gatlin". Seriously man - a fantasy world gaming site most likely run by a teen-age kid living in his mom's basement? Quoting you: All you...do is read a click-bait headline that sounds like something you agree with....then you copy and paste. Frikkin' putz! Here's more from your "unbiased" source: You've posted articles saying libertarianism is communism. Now this article saying it is the opposite of communism. At least one of those articles must be wrong. Do you know which article is wrong?
A proven solution to most of these ills is liberalism. For fifty years liberals governed this country, generating unprecedented prosperity, and making this the first solidly middle-class nation. Do you agree with this article that liberalism is the answer?
You are asking that hypocrite a question as though it is some sort of an "expert." Why, when you know, all it is doing is: SPAMMING.
all it is doing is: SPAMMING
How old are you Hondo?
Older than you. Could you ask Gatlin to at least cut down on posting hit pieces on libertarianism, hasn't that dead horse been beaten enough already?
Do you agree with this article that liberalism is the answer?
No but I've been thinking about banning you permently. How old are you anyway?
Barry Goldwater was a faggot lover. He was flawed.
Why don’t you just DISPUTE the information in articles and prove it wrong instead of getting on your knees and BEGGING for them to stop. What I am performing is a much-needed educational process. Far too long have far many people known far too little about the evils of libertarianism. I fully intend to change that,,,,HERE and NOW.
I'm in my late 60s, and very stable genius, like The Donald.
Yes you are much older than I am. Thanks for answering.
I do like the way you post questions and don’t make assumptive statements like some folks always do….believing they can read my mind. Direct questions always require considered answers.
You are asking that hypocrite a question as though it is some sort of an "expert." Why, when you know, all it is doing is: SPAMMING.
What's wrong with libertarianism Source: zompist.com A better question would be: "What's wrong with Gatlin". Seriously man - a fantasy world gaming site most likely run by a teen-age kid living in his mom's basement? Quoting you: All you...do is read a click-bait headline that sounds like something you agree with....then you copy and paste. Frikkin' putz! A personal ad hangmen attack.
As a dream,it is great. It sucks all the air off the planet in reality,though. NO theory that defies human nature can hold up to reality. "Pie in the sky" is a great promise,but nobody knows anyone that ever found a pie floating around.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
SOMEBODY is on drugs. There is a difference between liberalism and Americanism. Liberalism promises what they can't even begin to deliver,and anybody that says they can is a fool. Americanism (democratic republicanism) provides everyone with the OPPORTUNITY to advance as far in life as their ambition and their ability allows them to advance. It also recognizes the indisputable FACT that "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch." If you don't believe me,ask a cow,a pig,or a chicken what your lunch cost them.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
You are full of shit. Not that this is new news to you. Goldwater believed that ALL Americans deserved equal treatment under the law. So does the US Constitution. Why do you have a problem with that?
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
"Pie in the sky" is a great promise,but nobody knows anyone that ever found a pie floating around. libertarians do not advocate, "dreams"; "dreams" are a result of avocation of their respective political parties so-called "plancks." We do not promise "pie in the sky"; we advocate sanity, civility and common sense.
All people are equal under the law. You like it when faggots get special privelages like pretending to be married to the same sex. Spout your left wing faggot agenda and you will be gone foeever or a long time.
Yeah WhaT law Law of the jungle Love If you ... don't use exclamation points --- you should't be typeing ! Commas - semicolons - question marks are for girlie boys !
ROFLMAO! "Sanity,civility,and common sense!" Good one! Where are you going to find it?
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
Yup,and it burns your ass,doesn't it? To be truthful,there are a few people I would love to see being treated as "less than equal",but we just can't have a government that does that and still call ourselves free. You like it when faggots get special privelages like pretending to be married to the same sex. You might not like it Bubba,but according to the LAW if they get a marries license and someone with the legal authority to perform the service certifies they are married,they ARE married. The only reason I can see for anyone to be upset by this on the level of you and a few others is they got married to someone of the opposite gender because they are so far in the closet they can't even admit to themselves they are homosexuals,and now "out" homosexuals are taking their cover away. Spout your left wing faggot agenda and you will be gone foeever or a long time. I don't have a left-wing agenda for anyone or anything. If there is anyone here proposing leftist values like establishing a class system and making some citizens less free to live their lives than other citizens,it is you.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
We will lead by example as you point out, it is nearly non-existent.
Yeah,good luck with that one.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
We sure as HELL won't wait for it by our government leadership.
Not at all. It's just special privelages to pretend they are married. If you don't understand that get the f*** out of here you dumb mother f*****
Quit posting faget propaganda you dick- sucking sneak a Peter. Or get the f*** out of here. Comprende fag lover
That's what all the fagets say dumbass
One thing I don't understand is who gave YOU the authority to decide who is allowed to be married and who isn't. Or did you get a seat on the Supreme Court and not tell anyone about it? This whole homo marriage thing is really personal with you,ain't it? Who was it that said to be a good Christian you need to "turn the other cheek"? I'm pretty sure it was somebody famous. Maybe Bill Cosby?
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
Quit posting faget propaganda you dick- sucking sneak a Peter. Or get the f*** out of here. Comprende fag lover Which one of us is always talking about them?
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
So what's it going to be Peter you going to keep posting faggot propaganda or am I going to say adios to you? That means shut up.
Don't respond to this ok. It's just the rules. No pro faggots posts allowed here. If I have to take my time to delete them it pisses me off and I will remove you.
Unless I miss my guess I'd have to say he thinks they don't deserve the same benefits a traditional married couple (man/woman) enjoy because they aren't the same or equal. What I mean by equal is they can't have children by traditional methods, having sex with each other and one giving birth. I would also hazard a guess that he reads the Bible and see's where it's condemned and others don't. He probably also knows the only reason it's nationwide is for political reasons.
Vegetarians eat vegetables. Beware of humanitarians!
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build
walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist
governments.
Looks like you either deleted what you posted or you were censored. I read what you posted before I went to bed so will try to do this from memory. Before I get started I need to add to something I said above when I said politics was the only reason behind homo money. That statement isn't totally true money is the other driving issue, for the homos and the politicians. (How many were against same sex marriage before they found out they could get campaign contributions for being for it)?? Now just because a few normal couples are having fertility issues or are too old to have children is not justification for allowing 2 rear admirals to become married. Man is a degenerate little son of a bitch if he's left without boundaries like rules, laws and morals. Without them he'll never grow up and will always have mental issues/deviant and childlike behavior. Allowing homos to marry and reap the benefits is rewarding that behavior and encouraging them to never grow and become responsible, fully functional adults. Besides "being married" allows them to be viewed as "being normal", which is also what they desire. How many of them run around with "beards" in public but let their true selves show behind closed doors?? Acquiescing to the homos and granting them marriage rights just opened a can of worms you won't be able to close. To see what I mean all you have to do is look at all of the latest silliness, like people wanting to marry their house pets/farm animals. Or pedophiles wanting to marry their child victims before they become old enough to know better and say no. Do we really want to have a world full of mental midgets or maybe should we give them the help they so desperately need? The funny part about all of this is not that many are actually getting married. To a good portion of them it's all about having as much sex with as many people as possible (which in itself is another mental issue). Actually being married puts a crimp in their style if their partner doesn't agree to an open relationship. They could be taken to the cleaners in a divorce settlement if their partner doesn't agree, poetic justice eh? Violating the sanctity of marriage wasn't necessary some kind of civil union which gave them the monetary advantages/gains/rights of marriage would have been good enough, contrary to what they claim.
Vegetarians eat vegetables. Beware of humanitarians!
We don't "allow" homosexuals to marry. We LITERALLY have no legal standing to prevent them marrying because according to the US Constitution all citizens have the same rights. You,I,Stone,nor anyone else HAS to like or approve of homosexual marriage because we are either all free and have the same rights as everyone else,or we are not a free country. Man is a degenerate little son of a bitch if he's left without boundaries like rules, laws and morals. Without them he'll never grow up and will always have mental issues/deviant and childlike behavior. Allowing homos to marry and reap the benefits is rewarding that behavior and encouraging them to never grow and become responsible, fully functional adults. Besides "being married" allows them to be viewed as "being normal", which is also what they desire. How many of them run around with "beards" in public but let their true selves show behind closed doors?? Acquiescing to the homos and granting them marriage rights just opened a can of worms you won't be able to close. Once again,do NOT address this to me. I had nothing to do with it. Take it up with guys like Washington and Jefferson and the rest of the Founding Fathers that ratified our Constitution and Bill of RIGHTS. To see what I mean all you have to do is look at all of the latest silliness, like people wanting to marry their house pets/farm animals. People WANT to do all sorts of foolish crap,but that doesn't mean it is legal for them to do it. Or pedophiles wanting to marry their child victims before they become old enough to know better and say no. WRONG! The LAST thing,by definition,that a pedophile wants is to be married to an adult. What they WANT are the laws to be changed so they can legally have sex with children. Do we really want to have a world full of mental midgets ... Seems to me to be a little late to do anything about that. Besides,why SHOULDN'T homosexuals have the right to enjoy the thrills of divorce,losing half their stuff and most of their income in order to provide a life of comfort for their exes? Heterosexuals experience all those thrills on a daily basis,so why not spread a little of THAT "joy" and then see just how damn "gay" they are then?
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
WRONG! The LAST thing,by definition,that a pedophile wants is to be married to an adult. What they WANT are the laws to be changed so they can legally have sex with children. I have no idea why I typed that like that except for a story I remember hearing about a pedophile was trying to marry the mother of one of his victims. Anyway you are correct in that they want their activities to be legal, I.E. considered to be normal.
Vegetarians eat vegetables. Beware of humanitarians!
Comments (41 - 44) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestWhat's wrong with libertarianism
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Trump: My People Should ‘Sit Up in Attention’ Like Kim Jong-un’s Staff.
#2. To: Gatlin (#0)
#3. To: Gatlin (#0)
#4. To: A K A Stone (#2)
You've posted articles saying libertarianism is communism. Now this article saying it is the opposite of communism. At least one of those articles must be wrong. Do you know which article is wrong?
#5. To: buckeroo, spammeister Gatlin, attention ho (#4)
#6. To: hondo68 (#5)
#7. To: A K A Stone (#6)
(Edited)
How old are you
#8. To: A K A Stone (#3)
. A proven solution to most of these ills is liberalism. For fifty years liberals governed this country, generating unprecedented prosperity, and making this the first solidly middle-class nation.
I definitely do not agree. I am a hard-core Conservative who believes as Barry Goldwater did that: Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice.
FWIT – Barry Goldwater lived only a few miles from where I live. He was a big-time HAM and had some kind of large antenna farm around his house. He would at times serve as a rely on his HAM radio for messages from service personnel in SEA to the folks at home. I don’t know if he ever assisted me or not, but I gratefully appreciated his effprts….as well as those of other HAM operators.
#9. To: hondo68 (#7)
Could you ask Gatlin to at least cut down on posting hit pieces on libertarianism, hasn't that dead horse been beaten enough already?
#10. To: Gatlin (#8)
#11. To: hondo68, A K A STONE (#7)
Could you ask Gatlin to at least cut down on posting hit pieces on libertarianism, hasn't that dead horse been beaten enough already?
lol….oh, you poor baby.
#12. To: A K A Stone (#10)
Barry Goldwater was a faggot lover. He was flawed.
I did not know that. I will look into it.
#13. To: A K A Stone, VSGs (#9)
How old are you anyway?
#14. To: hondo68 (#13)
#15. To: A K A Stone (#3)
You've posted articles saying libertarianism is communism. Now this article saying it is the opposite of communism. At least one of those articles must be wrong.
I posted both articles in the interest of objectivism, not the objectivism philosophy of rational individualism founded by Ayn Rand, but objectivism as being able to see different aspects or sides. Both articles contain good debatable points. Do you know which article is wrong?
If you are asking me do I believe libertarianism is communism? Then the answer to that question is no, I do not.
#16. To: buckeroo, A K A Stone (#4)
You've posted articles saying libertarianism is communism. Now this article saying it is the opposite of communism. At least one of those articles must be wrong. Do you know which article is wrong?
lol …
#17. To: Deckard (#1)
IGNORE POST-
Poster dId not address the topic.
#18. To: Gatlin (#0)
What's wrong with libertarianism
#19. To: A K A Stone (#3)
A proven solution to most of these ills is liberalism. For fifty years liberals governed this country, generating unprecedented prosperity, and making this the first solidly middle-class nation.
#20. To: A K A Stone (#10)
Barry Goldwater was a faggot lover. He was flawed.
#21. To: sneakypete (#18)
As a dream,it is great. It sucks all the air off the planet in reality,though. NO theory that defies human nature can hold up to reality.
#22. To: sneakypete (#20)
#23. To: sneakypete (#20)
boris
#24. To: buckeroo (#21)
We do not promise "pie in the sky"; we advocate sanity, civility and common sense.
#25. To: A K A Stone (#22)
All people are equal under the law.
#26. To: sneakypete (#24)
Where are you going to find it?
#27. To: buckeroo (#26)
We will lead by example as you point out, it is nearly non-existent.
#28. To: sneakypete (#27)
#29. To: sneakypete (#25)
Yup,and it burns your ass,doesn't it?
#30. To: sneakypete (#25)
(Edited)
LAW if they get a marries license and someone with the legal authority to perform the service certifies they are married,they ARE married
#31. To: sneakypete (#25)
The only reason I can see for anyone to be upset by this on the level of you and a few others is they got married to someone of the opposite gender because they are so far in the closet they can't even admit to themselves they are homosexuals,and now "out" homosexuals are taking their cover away.
#32. To: A K A Stone (#29)
It's just special privelages to pretend they are married. If you don't understand that get the f*** out of here you dumb mother f*****
#33. To: A K A Stone (#30)
LAW if they get a marries license and someone with the legal authority to perform the service certifies they are married,they ARE married
#34. To: sneakypete (#33)
#35. To: sneakypete (#33)
#36. To: sneakypete (#32)
This whole homo marriage thing is really personal with you,ain't it?
#37. To: CZ82 (#36)
#38. To: sneakypete (#37)
#39. To: CZ82 (#38)
Now just because a few normal couples are having fertility issues or are too old to have children is not justification for allowing 2 rear admirals to become married.
#40. To: sneakypete (#39)
Or pedophiles wanting to marry their child victims before they become old enough to know better and say no.
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