What will be more interesting is to learn everything Reagan said about Libertarianism.
I guess that Reagan is now on Gatlins shit list !!
Nope, Stoner, Reagan is not on my shit list.
Stoner: Now we will be seeing an endless parade of articles like " Reagan Sucks "; " Why I Hate Reagan "; etc, all by Gatlin
Nope, definitely none of that. I will however present some most enlightening information for your objective consideration. I shall begin by stating that Ronald Reagan definitely wasn’t a libertarian and most certainly he was not a Libertarian. That said, he never claimed to be. Did he? Definitely not. With his suggesting that libertarianism is at the heart of conservatism is not necessarily saying they are one and the same but simply suggesting one is part of what drives the whole of the other. Which is an accurate assessment ideologically.
Libertarians pee themselves when they continually quote Ronald Reagan saying:
“If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. I think conservatism is really a misnomer just as liberalism is a misnomer for the liberals–if we were back in the days of the Revolution, so-called conservatives today would be the Liberals and the liberals would be the Tories. The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is.”
Libertarians love to take that Ronald Reagan quote out of context and point to it with pride. However, the shamefully devious libertarians neglect to call attention to what Ronald Reagan went on to say:
Now, I can’t say that I will agree with all the things that the present group who call themselves Libertarians in the sense of a party say, because I think that like in any political movement there are shades, and there are libertarians who are almost over at the point of wanting no government at all or anarchy. I believe there are legitimate government functions. There is a legitimate need in an orderly society for some government to maintain freedom or we will have tyranny by individuals. The strongest man on the block will run the neighborhood. We have government to insure that we don’t each one of us have to carry a club to defend ourselves. But again, I stand on my statement that I think that libertarianism and conservatism are travelling the same path.
Yes, Reagan said he believed that libertarianism and conservatism were traveling “the same path.” Yet, the path Reagan trod was most definitely anything but libertarian.
As a two-term governor of California, Reagan presided over a state budget increase from $5.7 to $10.8 billion. He was a tax cutter in some areas (property tax) but a tax raiser in others (sales tax). He introduced withholding to the state income-tax system. Under his administration, government funding for primary and secondary public education increased 105 percent, government support for junior colleges increased 323 percent, and government grants and loans to college students increased 900 percent. Reagan overhauled the state welfare system, reducing total welfare caseload, but also raised benefits by 30 percent and increased administrative costs. He vetoed legislation to reduce marijuana possession to a misdemeanor and signed legislation to sharply increase penalties for drug dealers.
As president, Reagan is famously remembered as a tax cutter. But, again, he was also a tax raiser. He supported the refundable Earned Income Tax Credit; eliminated “loopholes” that allowed taxpayers to hold on to more of their money; and increased corporate income taxes, Medicare taxes, Social Security taxes, and capital gains taxes. He also began the practice of taxing Social Security benefits.
The Reagan record is anything but fiscal conservatism. During his tenure, federal expenditures increased by more than 60 percent, spending on education increased by 68 percent, and health-care spending increased by 71 percent.
Reagan’s deregulatory policies have been grossly overstated. During the 1980s, the Code of Federal Regulations increased in size by roughly 20 percent. Reagan also increased import barriers and quotas and expanded the agricultural subsidies.
And even though he said in a 1981 speech that “government’s first duty is to protect people, not run their lives,” he didn’t practice what he preached when it came to drugs. Federal spending on law enforcement, prisons, and the war on drugs greatly increased, as did incarceration rates. Reagan signed legislation reinstating civil asset- forfeiture laws and mandatory minimum sentences for drug-related crimes.
His support for gun rights is mixed. And as Reagan’s budget director David Stockman tells us, “Reagan tripled the size of the U.S. defense budget based on a totally phony neocon claim that the Soviet Union was on the verge of military superiority and nuclear first-strike capacity.”
That definitely doesn’t sound like Reagan’s conservatism was too libertarian. Does it? Nope!
Reagan was absolutely no Libertarian. He was far too socially conservative to be reasonably called Libertarian. Reagan’s foreign policy ideas were far too interventionist and nationalist to be classified as truly Libertarian. In his time as POTUS, he was considered by many to be an ultra-conservative. His victory and two terms as POTUS shifted American political discourse well to the right of where it had been. No one can ever call Reagan anything other than a conservative Republican, and it’s a sign of modern times that people now consider him to have been a moderate or even a Libertarian. He espoused just a few Libertarian ideas, but a Libertarian he was not.
So, is libertarianism “the very heart and soul of conservatism”? Is the basis of conservatism “a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom”? Do conservatives have an “appreciation of the importance of private property and free markets”? Do “conservatives defend the ordered liberty established by the Constitution”?
Let’s take a close look and see if libertarianism and conservatism traveling “the same path”.
Perhaps the best way to see whether those things are true is by simply looking at what conservatism and libertarianism say about certain issues. Here are twenty-five of them, some general and some specific — enough to show beyond a shadow of a doubt that conservatism and libertarianism are not brothers, cousins, or related in any way.
Conservatism says that the government is entitled to a portion of every American’s income through taxation. Libertarianism says that taxation is simply government theft, and that all Americans should be allowed to keep the fruits of their labor and spend their money as they see fit.
Conservatism says that Social Security should be “saved” so that future generations of the elderly can be supported by the young. Libertarianism says that Social Security is an intergenerational, income-transfer, wealth-redistribution welfare program that should be abolished.
Conservatism says that the defense budget should be increased and tied to the nation’s GDP. Libertarianism says that the defense budget should be decreased and the military used for defensive purposes only.
Conservatism says that the government should prohibit people from selling their organs both while they are alive and after they are dead. Libertarianism says that your body is your own and, alive or dead, you should be able to do whatever you want with all or part of it.
Conservatism says that the government should take money out of the pockets of American taxpayers and put it in the hands of corrupt foreign governments and organizations in the form of foreign aid. Libertarianism says that because it is not the proper role of government to give out any foreign aid, the decision to give money to foreigners should be an individual one, and no country should receive foreign aid from the U.S. government in any amount, at any time, for any reason.
Conservatism says that the government should expend resources, arrest, fine, or imprison people for growing, manufacturing, buying, selling, using, or possessing drugs it has deemed to be illegal. Libertarianism says that the war on drugs is a war on freedom and that government has no business being concerned about the commercial, medical, or recreational use of drugs.
Conservatism says that most federal gun laws, including the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, should be retained. Libertarianism says that the federal government has no authority whatsoever to pass any laws that relate in any way to weapons, ammunition, waiting periods, or background checks.
Conservatism says that the government should take money from those who work and transfer it to those who don’t by means of unemployment benefits. Libertarianism says that unemployment insurance should be private and that government has no business paying people for not working.
Conservatism says that laws prohibiting discrimination against someone because of his race, color, religion, sex, or national origin should be enforced and that no one should legally be able to refuse someone service, entrance, or membership on account of those things. Libertarianism says that all discrimination laws should be repealed because they destroy the rights of private property, freedom of assembly, freedom of association, free enterprise, and freedom of contract.
Conservatism says that the government should establish overtime rules and a minimum wage if it is not too high or burdensome to small businesses. Libertarianism says that those things should be negotiated between employers and employees on an individual or group basis without any government involvement whatsoever.
Conservatism says that the government should have refundable tax credits so that “the poor” can get a refund of taxes that were never withheld from their paychecks. Libertarianism says that refundable tax credits are a form of welfare and that the government should never issue a tax refund in excess of what is withheld from paychecks.
Conservatism says that government should take money out of the pockets of American taxpayers and use it to give out grants for scientific and medical research. Libertarianism says that all scientific and medical research should be privately funded and conducted.
Conservatism says that the government should take money from some Americans to feed other Americans by means of food stamps or school breakfasts and lunches. Libertarianism says that all food aid should be private and voluntary and that the government should have nothing to do with feeding students, the poor, or anyone else.
Conservatism says that the government should regulate some, and prohibit other, forms of gambling. Libertarianism says that all gambling laws should be repealed because they are gross violations of individual liberty and property rights.
Conservatism says that the government should take money from some Americans to educate the children of other Americans in public schools or by means of educational vouchers. Libertarianism says that the government should have nothing whatsoever to do with schools, education, teachers, student loans, testing, or standards.
Conservatism says that the United States should continue its military alliances with many countries around the world and come to their defense if necessary. Libertarianism says that the United States should not make entangling alliances and should observe a foreign policy of strict neutrality.
Conservatism says that the government should take money out of the pockets of American taxpayers to explore space and conduct experiments on a space station. Libertarianism says that all space exploration and experimentation should be privately funded and conducted.
Conservatism says that the government should take money out of the pockets of American taxpayers and use it to provide disaster relief in foreign countries. Libertarianism says that because it is not the proper role of government to provide disaster relief — even to its own citizens — the decision to provide disaster relief to foreigners should be an individual one, and no country should receive disaster relief from the U.S. government in any amount, at any time, for any reason.
Conservatism says that the United States should have an interventionist foreign policy and police the world. Libertarianism says that the United States should have a noninterventionist foreign policy and mind its own business.
Conservatism says that the government should provide the poor and farmers a safety net. Libertarianism says that the government should not give or lend money to, or subsidize the poor or any particular group.
Conservatism says that the United States should maintain an empire of troops and bases around the world. Libertarianism says that all foreign bases should be closed and all U.S. troops brought home.
Conservatism says that “the rich” should pay their “fair share” of taxes by paying a higher percentage of their income to the government than “the poor” or by forgoing certain deductions, exemptions, and credits that the government grants to them. Libertarianism says that a progressive tax system is Marxist and that neither “the rich” nor “the poor” should be taxed on their income.
Conservatism says that the government should take money out of the pockets of Americans who “have” and redistribute it to other Americans who “have not” by means of WIC, TANF, Section 8 rent subsidies, SSI, and the Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program. Libertarianism says that the welfare state is immoral because taking resources from people to give to those in need is not a noble act of charity but engaging in theft, and that all charity should be entirely private and voluntary.
Conservatism says that the government should make and enforce laws against victimless crimes. Libertarianism says that there is no such thing as nebulous crimes against nature, society, or the state, and that every crime should have a tangible and identifiable victim.
Conservatism says that the government should take money from some Americans to pay for the health care and health insurance of other Americans by means of SCHIP, Medicaid, and Medicare. Libertarianism says that the government shouldn’t subsidize anyone’s health care or health insurance and that the government should have absolutely nothing to do with either one.
What are we to conclude from this comparison between conservatism and libertarianism but that conservatism is merely one of many varieties of statism? Indeed, the very heart and soul of conservatism is statism. Conservatism deems it completely appropriate for government to punish people for engaging in peaceful, voluntary, and consensual actions it doesn’t approve of and to take people’s resources against their will and transfer or redistribute them to others as it sees fit. Ronald Reagan was wrong. There is an incontrovertible divide that exists between conservatism and libertarianism. The two are following opposite paths. It is libertarianism alone that desires less government interference, less centralized authority, and more individual freedom.
So, Stoner, do you feel that libertarianism and conservatism are traveling “the same path” when all this information shows that they are definitely not?
I feel they definitely are not traveling the same path and I have shown why.
While libertarians, like buckeroo and others, post that Reagan quote ad nauseam, they never show where Reagan traveled the same path of libertarianism and conservatism....because they can’t.
