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Title: WHY I LEFT SCOFIELDISM (I am a 'Recovering "Christian Zionist" Rothschild-Israel Worshiper')
Source: Las Tablas Global S.A. – A Christian Social Media Blog
URL Source: https://panamakent.com/2018/07/04/w ... t-rothschild-israel-worshiper/
Published: Jul 4, 2018
Author: William E.Cox/Title enhancement by Panam
Post Date: 2018-07-08 19:59:48 by hondo68
Keywords: rediscovered truths, satans li, John Nelson Darby, weak, Christology, Scofield Jesuits
Views: 599
Comments: 40

WHY I LEFT SCOFIELDISM

Breaking away from the fascinating teachings of The Scofield Reference Bible was one of the most difficult decisions of my entire life. Even after doubts arose in my mind, it took some seven or eight years to relinquish the ready-made theological clothing I had worn since the day of my conversion. For I was saved, at the age of sixteen, in a Baptist church where almost everyone carried a Scofield Bible. My spiritual tutors knew the footnotes and headings placed in the Bible by C. I. Scofield as well as they knew the Bible itself. Indeed, the two had become almost synonymous in their minds even as they were destined to become in my own mind. Even today it is difficult at times to clear my mind of some of Scofield’s presuppositions when I study God’s Word.

It was while I was serving in Europe as a member of a medium tank crew that God called me into the ministry of his dear Son. Even before the beginning of World War II – in fact, from the time of my conversion, I had been active as a Sunday School teacher and had taken other active interests in the local church. However, acting on the advice of Scofield himself, I had distrusted the outstanding Bible commentaries and had felt that all I needed for a thorough understanding of the Bible was supplied by the notes of my favorite “Bible.”

With my call to the ministry came the jolting realization that I would be called upon to say to members of my congregation, “This is why we believe thus and so about the Bible; here is the verse and chapter for our belief on a given subject.” With this thought in mind I deliberately took my theology apart to see whether or not I could put it together again, based on the Bible. My thinking was that if I could not convince myself, then certainly I could not convince others. In other words, I asked myself, concerning each and every major doctrine in which I believed, “What saith the scripture?” (Romans 4:3).

This was a helpful experience in my life and ministry. I heartily recommend it to every preacher and teacher. Let me caution you, however, that there are risks involved in such a procedure. You might have to burn some favorite sermons or lessons! I did. Still, it was a rewarding experience, too. To me it was like walking out of a dimly lighted room into one flooded with light. My God and his Book appeared larger than ever before.

Getting back to the dissecting of my beliefs, it was disconcerting, to say the least, to find that some of my most cherished beliefs simply would not stand up under a close scriptural scrutiny. I got most of Humpty-Dumpty back together with relative ease. I could show, from the Bible, why I believed in such great doctrines as the Virgin Birth, deity of Christ, his literal Second Coming, the inspiration and infallibility of the Scriptures, believers’ immersion, eternal security, perseverance of the saints, the bodily resurrection of all, the judgment, eternal heaven, an equally eternal hell, and many other cardinal doctrines.

But, try as I would, certain beliefs kept embarrassing me. For I could not find the verse and chapter to support my beliefs concerning national Israel. I had been taught that the Jews would go back to Palestine, rebuild the Temple, reinstitute the blood sacrifices, serve as Christ’s missionaries during an earthly millennium, and be involved in many other related events. I was so determined to find scriptural support for these teachings that oftentimes I became angry with myself for being so lacking in Bible knowledge.

Finally, after some seven or eight years of searching in vain, God jolted me into reality. It finally dawned upon me that what I sincerely thought were verses of the Bible actually were footnotes put inside the covers of the Bible by a man. I acknowledged, too, that C. I. Scofield was a man like ourselves and that he did not belong in the same authoritative category as Peter, James, and John.

I broke with Scofieldism grudgingly. He had been such a help in preparing a Sunday School lesson and, later, in “getting up a sermon.” All one needed to do was to turn to the passage in mind. In most cases the headings and footnotes presented a ready outline, requiring very little study. Also, just about every Christian in my peer group seemed to agree that here was profound teaching.

Perhaps one of my greatest surprises came with the realization that followers of Scofield actually represented a comparatively small minority among Christians. It was only their dogmatism, plus the fact that they were so vocal, which made them appear to be in the majority. It was a comfort to learn that Scofield’s “rediscovered truths,” which he had learned at the feet of John Nelson Darby, a Plymouth Brethren, differed not only from most known commentaries, but from the great majority of the church fathers, and the reformers as well. I learned, too, that most of the critics of Scofieldism had, as I had, been devoted followers at one time.

Having come out of Scofieldism, I passed through at least three stages to arrive at my present position. My first feeling was that, although many things my former hero taught were not so, the good points (and he has many of these) in his system outweighed the bad. From this stage continued study led me to believe that I must leave The Scofield Reference Bible alone completely, but that I should not make an issue of it with equally sincere Christians. Further study led me to the position which I now hold. That position is that Scofieldism is heresy, and that, since God has given me this light, I must seek in love to warn others of the household of faith against this subtle, intriguing heresy.

It has been some 14 years since my final break with Scofieldism. Let me share with you some of the objections to this teaching as they are now formulated in my mind.

1. SCOFIELD DOWNGRADES THE CHURCH AND HER ROLE IN GOD’S PLAN.

Historic Christian teaching always has been that the church was the antitype of national Israel. This teaching goes on to say that the church succeeded Israel at the first advent, and that all unfulfilled promises to Abraham will be fulfilled in and through the church.

Scofield admits that this is the historic Christian teaching, then proceeds to teach that it is erroneous. He says: “Especially is it necessary to exclude the notion – a legacy in Protestant thought from post-apostolic and Roman Catholic theology – that the Church is the true Israel, and that the Old Testament foreview of the kingdom is fulfilled in the Church” (p. 989, S.R.B.).

He begins early in his footnotes to lay the groundwork for his teaching that the church will end in failure and be replaced by national Israel, who will succeed where the church failed. On page 8, in footnote I, he states that Eve is a type of the church! Like most of Scofield’s “types,” this one is arbitrary, artificial, and forced. Any interested reader may turn to the passages given as “proof” that Eve is a type of the church, and he will see that there is no mention whatsoever of this fact. He lists John 3:28,29; 2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:25-32; and Revelation 19:7,8. This is typical of Scofield’s scriptural references; they rarely say what he says they do. He apparently counted on the fact that his readers would not turn to the passages given. Either that, or he slighted the intelligence of his readers.

On page 9, footnote I, Scofield says: “The Adamic Covenant conditions the life of fallen man – conditions which must remain till, in the kingdom age, ‘the creation also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the sons of God’ (Rom. 8:21).” Here again the reader will find that the passage given does not even refer to people, but to the creation.

One might ask just what harm could come from fixing in people’s minds that Eve and Adamic conditions represent the church. The subtle danger is that when Scofield’s disciples think of the church they just automatically think of sinful, fallen, unfaithful children of Satan, and Adam and Eve! Then it is a simple step to teach, without scriptural proof, that the church is destined to end in failure (apostasy).

Coming to the Tower of Babel (p. 18) Scofield continues his slander-by-association. He says that the history of Babel strikingly parallels that of the professing church. He then refers his readers to his footnote on Isaiah 13:1. There he says that Babylon means confusion and is used symbolically to refer ahead to the church. Babylon, he says on page 725, refers to apostate Christianity, destroyed by the nations headed up under the Beast and false prophet (Rev. 17:16).

One could go on piling footnotes on top of each other, showing that Scofield teaches that the church will end in failure, and also showing the type of “reasoning” he uses in arriving at such a conclusion. Let us give one last statement to this effect. “Each of the Dispensations may be regarded as a new test of the natural man, and each ends in judgment – marking his utter failure” (C. 1. Scofield, Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth, p. 13).

In this teaching, as in many others, Scofield unveils his weak Christology. For he admits elsewhere that this church, which he says will end in failure, is the Body and the Bride of Christ! Paul says that the church is destined to glorious victory: “And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all” (Eph. 1:22,23). Should one believe Scofield or the apostle Paul? And what should one do with the statement of our Lord (Matt. 16:18) that not even the gates of hell should prevail against his church?

II. SCOFIELD TEACHES THAT GOD HAS TWO BODIES – ISRAEL AND THE CHURCH.

Let us first get before us the age-old Christian teaching on this subject: God always has had but one people. In the Old Testament this people (the type) was called Israel. In the New Testament the antitype was known as the church, or “the Israel of God.” The elect number from Israel plus the elect number of Gentiles constitute one and the same olive tree (Rom. 11: 17,24).

Here, again, Scofield begs to differ from the New Testament writers, the church fathers, the reformers, and the outstanding commentators. He chooses rather to accept another of John Nelson Darby’s “rediscovered truths” instead of the historic Christian teaching. He teaches that Israel is an earthly people while the church is a heavenly people; that God has two separate plans for these two distinct peoples; and that Israel and the church have separate destinies. Israel, he says, will spend eternity on earth while the church, made up of Jews and Gentiles, will spend eternity in heaven.

Facing one of the many quandaries to which this teaching naturally leads, Scofield says (p. 922, S.R.B.) that one must make a distinction between the wife of God and the bride of Christ (the church). He says that a wife and a bride are two different things! Here again, Scofield betrays his weak Christology. Does God the Father have attributes which God the Son does not have? Or, to pose the question another way, does God the Son have possessions to which God the Father may not lay claim? Jesus said, “I and the Father are one.”

Scofield flies in the face of many scriptures when he teaches that God has two separate bodies. Let a few such passages suffice.

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd (John 10:16, italics mine).

For if thou were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree (Rom. 11:24)?

In this verse Paul teaches two things pointing to one body, which is made up of Jews and Gentiles:

(1) Gentiles were grafted into the faithful remnant of national Israel (not into a separate olive tree), and (2) the believing part of Israel will be grafted into the same olive tree. In other words, Paul explicitly teaches (by way of analogy) that God is grafting Jew and Gentile into one and the same olive tree. If God had two bodies, Paul’s logic would break down and he would need two separate olive trees.

Let us continue with other scriptures which show conclusively that God has, not two bodies, but one.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ’s then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise (Gal. 3:28,29, italics mine.)

But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; and that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby (Eph. 2:13-16, italics mine).

Whereby when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ, Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel (Eph. 3:4-6, italics mine).

It would be difficult to find language any plainer than that used by Paul in the above-quoted scriptures. Paul states emphatically that God took two peoples and made them into one people. He says that God, in effect, took two men (Jew and Gentile) and made the two of them become one man.

Truly Scofield contradicts the apostle Paul by teaching that God has two bodies.

III. SCOFIELD TEACHES THAT GOD’S PROMISES TO NATIONAL ISRAEL AWAIT FUTURE FULFILLMENT.

What is the historic Christian teaching on this subject? All such promises have been either fulfilled or invalidated through unbelief. Those on which Scofield rests most of his case have been literally fulfilled, and these fulfillments are clearly recorded in the Bible.

Scofield, on the other hand, teaches that God has future plans to regather national Israel to Palestine, rebuild the Temple, and reinstitute the Old Testament economy (including the blood sacrifices). The reader might find it interesting to look at some of the typical scriptures on which Scofield builds this argument. On page 157, note 2, one reads: “The feast of Trumpets, vs. 23-25. This feast is a prophetical type and refers to the future regathering of long-dispersed Israel.” This footnote goes on to state that trumpets are always symbols of testimony and that they are connected with the regathering and repentance of Israel after the church, or pentecostal, period is ended.

Remember now, that this conclusion is based on Leviticus 23:23-25. Let us quote these verses word for word in order that one might see more clearly Scofield’s handling of the Scriptures.

And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying. Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation. Ye shall do no servile work therein: but ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto God.

You expected more? Honestly now, that is all the passage says! Check it in your own Bible. And on this passage, and others equally unrelated, Scofield bases a doctrine of the regathering of Israel to Palestine.

Realizing that the Bible records two regatherings of Israel to Palestine in fulfillment of prophecies (see note on p. 25, S.R.B.), Scofield says that three such regatherings are predicted in Scripture. His only proofs for this alleged return are scriptures such as Leviticus 23:23-25, which we have quoted above. Actually, no third regathering to the land is mentioned anywhere in the Bible. Scofield lists a number of scriptures on page 25, purporting to show by these that a third such regathering is promised. However, each of these passages clearly refers either to the first or second regathering to the land (already fulfilled, as attested to in the Old Testament), or to the first advent of Christ.

It is not necessary here to refute all of Scofield’s claims for national Israel. His argument actually rests on whether or not they have ever occupied all the land promised them through Abraham. Scofield argues thus: (1) Israel has never received all the land promised in the Abrahamic Covenant (p. 250, S.R.B.); (2) therefore, she must some day return to the land; (3) associated with the land are the Temple, blood sacrifices, etc.; therefore, since they will return to the land, it stands to reason that they will rebuild the Temple and all that goes with the land.

So, if Scofield is wrong concerning the land, his entire plan for national Israel goes begging. Let us examine the Bible itself to see whether or not God has kept his promise that Israel would inherit all the land of Palestine.

Behold, I have set the land before you: go in and possess the land which the Lord sware fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to them and to their seed after them (Deut. 1:8, italics mine).

Please note which land it is into which God says Joshua will lead the Israelites. It is the same land promised to Abraham.

And he brought us out from thence, that he might bring us in, to give us the land which he sware unto our fathers (Deut. 6:23).

Moses stated explicitly that God’s purpose in the Exodus from Egypt was to fulfill his promise to Abraham to give the land to Abraham’s seed.

Be strong and of a good courage; for unto this people shalt thou divide the land, which I sware unto their fathers to give them (Joshua 1:6).

Here God but reaffirms to Joshua the promise given through Moses, i.e., that God was now about to fulfill his promise to Abraham with reference to the land. Did God keep this promise through Joshua? What saith the scripture?

So Joshua took the whole land, according to all that the Lord said unto Moses; and Joshua gave it for an inheritance unto Israel according to their divisions by their tribes. And the land rested from war (Joshua 11:23).

And the Lord gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein. And the Lord gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the Lord delivered all their enemies into their hand. There failed not ought of any good thing which the Lord had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass (Joshua 21:43-45, italics mine).

Their children also multipliedst thou as the stars of heaven, and broughtest them into the land, concerning which thou hadst promised to their fathers, that they should go in to possess it (Nehemiah (9:23).

The above scriptures record the first regathering of Israel to the land. Scofield devotes not a single footnote to either of these verses! The prophets later predicted a second such return. This second return literally came to pass under the leadership of Zerubbabel, and its fulfillment is recorded in such books of the Bible as Ezra and Nehemiah (whose books, incidentally, were written after those of all the prophets with the possible exception of Malachi). Following this second return and the literal rebuilding of Solomon’s temple, in 516 B.C., there is not a single scripture reference, either in the Old Testament or the New, regarding a return to the land. What saith the scripture?

IV. SCOFIELD MISHANDLES MANY CLEAR VERSES OF SCRIPTURE.

In 2 Corinthians 4:2 Paul prided himself on walking without craftiness and on not handling the Word of God deceitfully. Unfortunately, this claim could not be made for Dr. Scofield. For he posits his teachings on craftily manufactured premises, then handles the Word deceitfully in order, to support these premises. Lest this statement seem too harsh, let us look at only a few of the plain scriptures on which he places interpretations altogether contrary to their obvious meaning.

Let us begin with Acts 15:16, since this verse is said by leading dispensationalists to be the most important verse of scripture in their entire school of thought (p. 1169, S.R.B.). Scofield interprets James as saying that, after the time that James was speaking, God would return and rebuild the tabernacle of David. Actually, Acts 15:16 is a quotation from Amos 9:11, and the words are those of Amos, not those of James. So that the “after this” refers to a time following Amos’s time, not to a time subsequent to James. In fact, James says (read the entire context) that Amos’s prophecy was fulfilled when Cornelius’ household (Gentiles) were added to the church.

If this be spiritualizing then the blame must be placed on James, who spoke under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. And James definitely disagrees with Scofield on this interpretation.

On page 1015, note 2, Scofield says: “The parable of the wheat and tares is not a description of the world, . . .” Verse 38 of this passage which the footnote is interpreting says, “The field is the world.” Here we have the words of Jesus versus the words of C. I. Scofield!

On page 1036, note 1, one reads that the judgment of Matthew is to be distinguished from the judgment of the great white throne. One of the “proofs” of this is that “three classes are present, sheep, goats, brethren. . .. These ‘brethren’ are the Jewish Remnant who will have preached the Gospel of the kingdom to all nations during the tribulation.” What saith the scripture? In Matthew 12:48-50 our Lord asked a question and also gave the answer to it. “… and who are my brethren? . . . whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.” Jesus’ own words would make the brethren of Matthew synonymous with the sheep of that same passage. This would give, not three, but two groups of people at the judgment of Matthew 25 – the same two groups present in Revelation 20:11-15. Acts 1:15 and Hebrews 2:11,12 also refer to Christians as the brethren of Christ.

On page 1023, note 1, Scofield says: “Christ confirms the specific and still unfulfilled prophecy of Mal. 4:5,6: ‘Elias shall truly first come and restore all things.’ ” He goes on to speak of “that yet to be fulfilled in Elijah.” Here again, Scofield is daring to contradict the words of Christ himself. Jesus said: “But I say unto you. That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him” (Mark 9:13, italics mine). Is any further comment necessary here?

Scofield assigns Zechariah 12:10 (“they shall look on him whom they have pierced”) to a time following the tribulation and says it teaches that national Israelites will accept Christ at a future date. John says explicitly that this prophecy was fulfilled when the spear pierced Jesus’ side on the cross at Calvary (John 19:34-37).

On page 1115, note 2, these words appear: “As a dispensation, grace begins with the death and resurrection of Christ (Rom. 3:24-26; 4:24,25). The point of testing is no longer legal obedience as the condition of salvation, but acceptance or rejection of Christ, with good works as a fruit of salvation. . . .” And on page 1011, note 2, he speaks on this same subject. “The new message of Jesus. The rejected King now turns from the rejecting nation and offers, not the kingdom, but rest and service to such in the nation as are conscious of need. It is a pivotal point in the ministry of Jesus.” Here Scofield lays himself open to the charge leveled against him, i.e., that he has more than one plan of salvation in his system. Note his words, “no longer legal obedience as the condition of salvation.” He plainly implies that:

(1) before Christ came, people were saved by good works (legal obedience); (2) now that Jesus has come, they are saved through Christ; and (3) good works now are a fruit of salvation, whereas before they were the means of salvation. And if Jesus offered people one thing in his “old” message while offering something else in his “new” message, what other conclusion can be drawn except that he offered two plans of righteousness?

That thinking people have taken dispensationalism to present various means of salvation is evident in the report adopted by the Southern Presbyterian Church in the United States. That report, adopted by this assembly in May, 1944, was in part as follows:

It is the unanimous opinion of your Committee that Dispensationalism is out of accord with the system of doctrines set forth in the Confession of Faith, not primarily or simply in the field of eschatology, but because it attacks the very heart of the theology of our Church. Dispensationalism rejects the doctrine that God has, since the Fall, but one plan of salvation for all mankind and affirms that God has been through the ages administering various and diverse plans of salvation for various groups. . . .

CONCLUSION.

Many other discrepancies could be pointed to in Scofieldism. However, to discredit any of the points dealt with above is to bring his entire system into serious question, since these are pivotal dogmas.

It has not been the intention of this writer to discredit a person, but to challenge unscriptural teachings put forth by a person. This pamphlet is sent forth in Christian love for all the household of faith, and with the prayer that it might lead many to a “more excellent way” of handling the Word of God.

http://www.gracegospel.org.uk/scofieldism.htm

Published Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing.Co. Box 817. Phillipsburg. New Jersey 08865 ISBN:0-87552-154-1 as a small booklet. No Date. No Copyright claim.


Poster Comment:

When Jesuit Pope Francis pulls the strings, the Scofield Christian Zionist puppets dance.

(1 image)

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#1. To: hondo68 (#0)

Coming to the Tower of Babel (p. 18) Scofield continues his slander-by-association. He says that the history of Babel strikingly parallels that of the professing church. He then refers his readers to his footnote on Isaiah 13:1. There he says that Babylon means confusion and is used symbolically to refer ahead to the church. Babylon, he says on page 725, refers to apostate Christianity, destroyed by the nations headed up under the Beast and false prophet (Rev. 17:16).

I see a few things wrong with this, and I know nothing of Scofield.

There is to be an apostate Church, represented by the Whore of Babylon. This apostate Church will not be destroyed by the Beast, it will worship the Beast, then be destroyed by Christ at his coming.

What scripture predicts a future Temple where the Adversary stands where he ought not? The Abomination of Desolation? I would be interested on your take please.

I have heard endlessly of a rebuilding of the Temple and it being necessary before the Second Coming.

THIS IS A TAG LINE...Exercising rights is only radical to two people, Tyrants and Slaves. Which are YOU? Our ignorance has driven us into slavery and we do not recognize it.

jeremiad  posted on  2018-07-08   23:01:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: jeremiad (#1)

I have heard endlessly of a rebuilding of the Temple and it being necessary before the Second Coming.

Well, this was a theme in Judaism before Christianity. They've had two temples. The first was desecrated and destroyed and had to be rebuilt (so the Messiah would come). So they built the Second Temple. Then Jesus lived and died and thirty years later the second Temple got destroyed and Jerusalem was leveled (again).

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-07-09   0:28:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Tooconservative, jeremiad (#2)

So they built the Second Temple. Then Jesus lived and died and thirty years later the second Temple got destroyed and Jerusalem was leveled (again).

That was the end of the biblical Judaism Israel. Insert Bible quote about tearing the the temple veil, or some such. The Jews who refuse the Messiah have earned the wrath of God. They're done, stick a fork in 'em.

As Christians we are the Israelites now, God's chosen people. The Jews are heathens who need to repent, no better than Muslims or Mormons. The State of Israel is a recently created political entity, and nothing more. They're not in the Bible. We definitely don't need Bibi to get to heaven, or to be good Christians.

If some privately funded Crusaders want to conquer the Holy Lands and turn them into a Bible tour for tourists, I'd be cool with that.


When Jesus died, the veil was torn, and God moved out of that place never again to dwell in a temple made with hands (Acts 17:24). God was through with that temple and its religious system, and the temple and Jerusalem were left “desolate” (destroyed by the Romans) in A.D. 70, just as Jesus prophesied in Luke 13:35. As long as the temple stood, it signified the continuation of the Old Covenant. Hebrews 9:8-9 refers to the age that was passing away as the new covenant was being established (Hebrews 8:13).

In a sense, the veil was symbolic of Christ Himself as the only way to the Father (John 14:6). This is indicated by the fact that the high priest had to enter the Holy of Holies through the veil. Now Christ is our superior High Priest, and as believers in His finished work, we partake of His better priesthood. We can now enter the Holy of Holies through Him. Hebrews 10:19-20 says, “we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body.” Here we see the image of Jesus’ flesh being torn for us just as He was tearing the veil for us.

The veil being torn from top to bottom is a fact of history. The profound significance of this event is explained in glorious detail in Hebrews. The things of the temple were shadows of things to come, and they all ultimately point us to Jesus Christ. He was the veil to the Holy of Holies, and through His death the faithful now have free access to God.

https://www.gotquestions.org/temple-veil-torn.html

hondo68  posted on  2018-07-09   1:37:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: hondo68 (#3)

As Christians we are the Israelites now, God's chosen people. The Jews are heathens who need to repent, no better than Muslims or Mormons.

The word 'heathen' doesn't mean "non-Christian", as you -- and many others -- seem to think.

The heathen are those who do not worship the God of Israel. IOW, anyone who isn't Jewish/Christian/Muslim.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-07-09   2:22:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Tooconservative (#4)

The heathen are those who do not worship the God of Israel.

Willie Green  posted on  2018-07-09   9:30:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Tooconservative (#4)

The word 'heathen' doesn't mean "non-Christian", as you -- and many others -- seem to think.

The heathen are those who do not worship the God of Israel. IOW, anyone who isn't Jewish/Christian/Muslim.

Thanks for helping straightening out this mess.

I've never seen so many confused people out there in my life. On any number of subjects.

Liberator  posted on  2018-07-09   11:49:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Liberator (#6)

A lot of people don't distinguish that heathen is a group of various beliefs, including pagans, animists, pantheists and others. Heathen was, during the great missionary expansion overseas, just a term to refer to those who had no connection to Jehovah as the one true god. The heathen are all non-Abrahamic religions, to put it a little more technically.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-07-09   12:28:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Tooconservative (#7)

A lot of people don't distinguish that heathen is a group of various beliefs, including pagans, animists, pantheists and others....

Defined even more clearly.

Liberator  posted on  2018-07-09   12:37:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: hondo68 (#3)

I understand that and agree with this. So any Temple, and the return of "the Jews" would be nothing but mans efforts, not a recalling of the Houses of Israel?

If they then build a Temple, and begin sacrifices, they will be offering them up to another god, or an angry God at their rejection of the ultimate sacrifice. That is my take on it.

THIS IS A TAG LINE...Exercising rights is only radical to two people, Tyrants and Slaves. Which are YOU? Our ignorance has driven us into slavery and we do not recognize it.

jeremiad  posted on  2018-07-09   16:45:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: jeremiad, Tooconservative, Liberator (#9) (Edited)

If they then build a Temple, and begin sacrifices, they will be offering them up to another god, or an angry God at their rejection of the ultimate sacrifice. That is my take on it.

Yes. The infidel Jews, Muslims, etc who rejected the Messiah are off the bus, no longer on the path of Abraham and the Old Testament (Old Covenant). They're ex-Israelis with no valid religion or god, and apparently they haven't got a clue.

Although TooConservative and Liberator seems to think they're hot stuff for some unknown reason? There will be no post tearing of the veil/temple destruction (~70 AD) Jews or Muslims in heaven, unless they converted to Christianity.

They're NOT Israeli in the biblical/religious sense, regardless of where they live. Jerimaid and I are Christian israelites (New Covenant), those others I'm not so sure about. If they make it to heaven, they're not going to see OBL, Bibi, the Blind Sheik, or Joe Lieberman there. Why bother even being a Christian, if just any old jihadi ahole can go to heaven?

hondo68  posted on  2018-07-09   17:21:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: hondo68, Liberator, redleghunter (#10)

They're NOT Israeli in the biblical/religious sense, regardless of where they live. Jerimaid and I are Christian israelites (New Covenant), those others I'm not so sure about. If they make it to heaven, they're not going to see OBL, Bibi, the Blind Sheik, or Joe Lieberman there. Why bother even being a Christian, if just any old jihadi ahole can go to heaven?

Don't be too sure. Jesus and Moses conquered the Romans by force of arms.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-07-09   17:46:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: hondo68 (#0) (Edited)

Wow! An excellent thread.

Until Scofield came along, all interpretations of the Revelation were based on the historicist view (as is my book on the Revelation). An excellent example of the historicist view is the running commentary on the Revelation found in the margins of the Geneva Bible that was carried by most of the pilgrims on the Mayflower. They believed, as I do, that the Revelation began to unfold in 312 AD when Constantine, upon seeing the sign of Christ in the clouds, conquered all the known world for Jesus, riding a white horse, and carrying a bow. For Scofield, or any of his blind followers today, to believe otherwise is ludicrous because no one fights wars and conquers anything (much less the whole world) with a bow and arrow anymore.

The Pilrims were also right about the second horseman being Roman Catholic Kings (and knights) who took peace from the Earth during the Crusades, carrying a great sword and riding stout red horses. Neither does anyone conquer with a great (huge) lance anymore.

To make a long story short, the Pilgrims had all the events in the Revelation figured out correctly up until the year 1600 (or whenever the Geneva Bible they carried was written). Basically, the only thing my commentary does is add the things that have been fulfilled since that time.

I don't know if the Pilgrims realized it or not, but they and their followers/ successors would soon give birth to the fourth horseman, that is George Washington who rode a very pale-looking horse called "Blueskin." Blue is the color of a very sick person right before they die. I watched it happen to my wife so I know. As far as I know, there has never been a horse like it in the history of horses, and I seriously doubt there will ever be another one despite what Mr. Scofield may say. Anyhow, the US now rules the Earth for Jesus.

And we have been doing an excellent job overall (as in the Great Tribulation of World war II), and up until recently when the 43rd rider of the pale horse came into power (the false prophet of chapter 19), who was followed by his side-kick, the 44th rider. Trump is trying his best to turn it around and make us a great nation again, but when we become too decadent to do it anymore, we will be replaced by the fifth horseman. And no, the 5th horseman is NOT the return of Jesus because He returned in 312 AD (as all the world history books attest to).

Barry Midyet

interpreter  posted on  2018-07-09   18:01:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: interpreter (#12) (Edited)

And no, the 5th horseman is NOT the return of Jesus because He returned in 312 AD (as all the world history books attest to).

Still trying to peddle that heresy Nostra-dumbass?

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul

Trump: My People Should ‘Sit Up in Attention’ Like Kim Jong-un’s Staff.

Deckard  posted on  2018-07-09   18:32:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: hondo68 (#0)

WHY I LEFT SCOFIELDISM

Why did you join?

misterwhite  posted on  2018-07-09   18:40:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: interpreter, Geneva Bible, NeverScofield, Fred Mertz (#12)

the Geneva Bible that was carried by most of the pilgrims on the Mayflower.

This great nation was founded by real Christians who'd never seen a Scofield Reference Bible, or a King James Bible either.

That new wave Bolshevik shuck 'n jive was invented later. Good Catholics avoid that malarkey like the plague.

hondo68  posted on  2018-07-09   19:33:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: misterwhite (#14) (Edited)

Author: William E.Cox

I was saved, at the age of sixteen, in a Baptist church where almost everyone carried a Scofield Bible. My spiritual tutors knew the footnotes and headings placed in the Bible by C. I. Scofield as well as they knew the Bible itself. Indeed, the two had become almost synonymous in their minds

Why did you join?

Bad parenting, they sent him to Jesuit indoctrination with the Scofield Baptists.

hondo68  posted on  2018-07-09   19:49:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Deckard (#13)

And no, the 5th horseman is NOT the return of Jesus because He returned in 312 AD (as all the world history books attest to). Still trying to peddle that heresy Nostra-dumbass?

Guess you're also calling Mr. Cox a dumb-ass. He stated the Gospel truth when he said, Historic Christian teaching always has been that the church was the antitype of national Israel. This teaching goes on to say that the church succeeded Israel at the first advent, and that all unfulfilled promises to Abraham will be fulfilled in and through the church.

In other words, Jesus rules the Earth through the Church dumb-ass. It began in 312 AD, on October 27th AD, when the sign of Christ appeared in the clouds, and Jesus returned to earth and told Constantine "By this, conquer."

Guess you've never cracked open a history book either because that event is called the turning point in history. That's because Ever since that day, the Church has ruled the earth as Jesus prophesied -- Although Islam (the 7th head of Satan) and atheists (the Great Whore), and Hitler (the antiChrist), have given us some competition along the way, as also prophesied.

And in 325 AD, Constantine sent his messengers with a trumpet, and gathered the elect of all the Church together from the far ends of the world as prophesied, and as recorded in all world history books. Or maybe you think all the world history books are a heresy also?

Wake up man and smell the rosy future.

interpreter  posted on  2018-07-09   20:21:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: hondo68 (#15)

This great nation was founded by real Christians who'd never seen a Scofield Reference Bible, or a King James Bible either.

That new wave Bolshevik shuck 'n jive was invented later. Good Catholics avoid that malarkey like the plague.

Well, they had definitely never seen the Scofield Bible, but by 1776, the King James Bible had been out for a while, and was pretty widely accepted, but the Geneva Bible was still around. And the historicist view was definitely still around (in all Churches including the Roman Catholic Church) because the futurist view had not been invented yet.

interpreter  posted on  2018-07-09   20:39:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: hondo68 (#15)

This great nation was founded by real Christians who'd never seen a Scofield Reference Bible, or a King James Bible either.

George Washington was sworn in with a King James Bible ignorant hondopehead.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-07-09   20:46:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: hondo68 (#16)

I was saved, at the age of sixteen, in a Baptist church where almost everyone carried a Scofield Bible.

Oh yeah? I was saved by a Schofield .45.

misterwhite  posted on  2018-07-10   9:37:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: hondo68 (#0)

I actually have a Scofield Bible. I have never seen it as dogma at all. It just gives generic information about what is being presented in each chapter.

no gnu taxes  posted on  2018-07-10   10:32:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: no gnu taxes (#21)

gives generic satanic disinformation about what is being presented in each chapter.

Fixed it for you.

hondo68  posted on  2018-07-10   10:40:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: hondo68 (#3) (Edited)

As Christians we are the Israelites now, God's chosen people.

Yep. Evidently Balllfoooor, Rothescheeeld, and their miscreant tribe of state establishing Bolshe-vampires didn't get the memo after Korah and his cohorts "fell".

Num 26:10-11
10 The earth opened its mouth and swallowed them along with Korah (the Pharaoh's former treasurer), whose
followers died when the fire devoured the 250 men. And they served as a
warning sign. 11 The line of Korah, however, did not die out.
NIV

VxH  posted on  2018-07-10   11:06:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: misterwhite (#20)

I was saved by a Schofield .45.

Were ya lucky in the order, Killer?

VxH  posted on  2018-07-10   11:17:30 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: hondo68, jeremiad (#10)

Jerimaid and I are Christian israelites

So you're saying you BOTH support Hillary and the dissolution of the USA? The takeover by Hollywood's HOMO-FASCISTS? Anarchy? I assume Jere is NOT in your cult.

Btw -- Jesus was NO anarchist. UN-LIKE YOU.

Liberator  posted on  2018-07-10   13:32:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: interpreter, Liberator (#17) (Edited)

Jesus rules the Earth through the Church dumb-ass. It began in 312 AD, on October 27th AD, when the sign of Christ appeared in the clouds, and Jesus returned to earth and told Constantine "By this, conquer."

Oh for crying out loud!

Hitler (the antiChrist),

Hitler was AN anti-Christ, not THE anti-Christ.

Mark of the beast...no man can buy or sell without it - Hitler did not have the technology to accomplish that.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul

Trump: My People Should ‘Sit Up in Attention’ Like Kim Jong-un’s Staff.

Deckard  posted on  2018-07-10   13:42:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: hondo68 (#22)

ridiculous

no gnu taxes  posted on  2018-07-10   14:59:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Deckard (#26)

Jesus rules the Earth through the Church dumb-ass. It began in 312 AD, on October 27th AD, when the sign of Christ appeared in the clouds, and Jesus returned to earth and told Constantine "By this, conquer."

Oh for crying out loud!

"Hitler (the antiChrist),"

Hitler was AN anti-Christ, not THE anti-Christ.

Mark of the beast...no man can buy or sell without it - Hitler did not have the technology to accomplish that.

Why do you guys keep poo-pooing what is in every world history book in black and white. The second coming is the main event, called the turning point in history.

And there is only one anti-Christ in the Revelation. The number of the beast (666) represents "The Third Reich" which in English means The Third Reign of Rome (or the third reign of head # 6 of Satan).

The mark of the beast was of course the Swastika, And beginning with his book Mein Kampf, Hitler often said his goal was that no one on earth would be able to be able to buy or sell without a permit in their hand stamped with the Swastika (but his soldiers and the SS, etc. with a Swastika on their headgear would not need one of course).

It is true that Hitler died before he could fully implement his plan, but as the Bible says, "Those days were cut short for the sake of the Saints."

interpreter  posted on  2018-07-10   15:53:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Liberator (#25) (Edited)

Jerimaid and I are Christian israelites

So you're saying you BOTH support Hillary and the dissolution of the USA? The takeover by Hollywood's HOMO-FASCISTS? Anarchy? I assume Jere is NOT in your cult.

Btw -- Jesus was NO anarchist. UN-LIKE YOU.

What a weird and extremely anti-Semitic post.

I too am a Christian Jew, and I can assure you that I do support the Clintons. In fact like I said Bill and his followers (including Hilary) are the false prophet of chapter 19 -- who with US forces took away a Christian nation from the Christian government and handed it over to the Islamic terrorists (the 7th head of Satan) which is a great big No-No in eyes of God. They will experience living hell.

interpreter  posted on  2018-07-10   16:20:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: interpreter (#28)

The mark of the beast was of course the Swastika, And beginning with his book Mein Kampf, Hitler often said his goal was that no one on earth would be able to be able to buy or sell without a permit in their hand stamped with the Swastika

Geeze Louise!!

The Mark of The Beast is going to be a microchip.

Hitler's plan to enslave the entire world with the swastika - how did that turn out?

I don't see anyone lining up at Wal Mart buying their groceries using a swastika.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul

Trump: My People Should ‘Sit Up in Attention’ Like Kim Jong-un’s Staff.

Deckard  posted on  2018-07-10   16:58:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: interpreter (#29)

Bombing Serbia

(( Sending a message To Israel ))

For one hundred days

Was proof of ThaT

Love
boris

If you ... don't use exclamation points --- you should't be typeing ! Commas - semicolons - question marks are for girlie boys !

BorisY  posted on  2018-07-10   17:03:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: interpreter (#29) (Edited)

What a weird and extremely anti-Semitic post.

Huh?? On what planet?

Your lack of reading comprehension and understanding of the gist is of mild curiosity.

As to your extended beliefs, your mis-interpretation of scripture and the way the Final Days play out is ONLY a matter of Divine knowledge.

Perhaps you ought to focus on the Gospel and message, and not so much on obsessing on prophecy. The latter doesn't necessarily save a soul; the former MIGHT.

Liberator  posted on  2018-07-10   17:26:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: interpreter, Liberator, anti-Semitic Trumpkins, Christian bashers (#29)

What a weird and extremely anti-Semitic post.

I too am a Christian Jew, and I can assure you that I do [not] support the Clintons.

+1

hondo68  posted on  2018-07-10   17:39:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Liberator (#32) (Edited)

Huh?? On what planet?

Your lack of reading comprehension and understanding of the gist is of mild curiosity.

As to your extended beliefs, your mis-interpretation of scripture and the way the Final Days play out is ONLY a matter of Divine knowledge.

Perhaps you ought to focus on the Gospel and message, and not so much on obsessing on prophecy. The latter doesn't necessarily save a soul; the former MIGHT.

Nope. When I was born, a prophetess proclaimed that I would be the greatest preacher to ever come out of Matagorda County. That prophecy has already been fulfilled in Brazoria County (the co. next door) where I am known as the greatest jailhouse preacher ever to come out of anywhere because I converted virtually the whole jail (except for a couple hard-core gangsters). And I never quoted even one verse from the Gospels. I did it by proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that God is real, and I did that by proving that 90 % of the prophecies of Jesus (in the Revelation) have come to pass. They had never heard that before, and instead had very often heard both the lying atheists and the lying preachers say none of them have ever come to pass.

Because my message worked so well, I am now taking it to the rest of the world (in my book, the Revelation: A Historicist View).

But just so you know, I have also written a commentary on the Gospels, and a commentary on Genesis, mainly meant to complement my book on the Revelation. Even so, there is the very real possibility that by book on Genesis, based on the Intelligent Design view, could soon be used as a text book in Texas Schools. Putting God back in schools is the only thing that can prevent the very scary school shootings being committed by students who have been taught nothing but atheism for their entire time in public school. The name of the book is "Genesis: Why We Are Here" and everyone needs to read it.

Barry Midyet

interpreter  posted on  2018-07-10   18:44:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: BorisY (#31)

Bombing Serbia

(( Sending a message To Israel ))

For one hundred days

Was proof of ThaT

Dont know what Clinton's bombing of Serbia has to do with Israel, but Bill's bombing of a Christian nation for no reason (except to aid the Islamic terrorists trying to take it over) is definitely proof that he is the evil false prophet of chapter 19.

interpreter  posted on  2018-07-10   19:13:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: All (#29)

I too am a Christian Jew, and I can assure you that I do support the Clintons. In fact like I said Bill and his followers (including Hilary) are the false prophet of chapter 19 -- who with US forces took away a Christian nation from the Christian government and handed it over to the Islamic terrorists (the 7th head of Satan) which is a great big No-No in eyes of God. They will experience living hell.

I of course meant to say I do NOT support the Clintons. (Because my internet connection is always going down, I have to type very fast, so I tend to make a lot of typos).

interpreter  posted on  2018-07-10   19:32:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: hondo68 (#0)

Your post has 4 times the words in the Scofield Bible footnotes. :-)

Found six errors in the article and then stopped.

redleghunter  posted on  2018-07-13   1:30:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: interpreter (#34)

Nope. When I was born, a prophetess proclaimed that I would be the greatest preacher to ever come out of Matagorda County.

You sure like to brag, don't you?

That prophecy has already been fulfilled in Brazoria County (the co. next door) where I am known as the greatest jailhouse preacher ever to come out of anywhere because I converted virtually the whole jail (except for a couple hard-core gangsters).

More bragging? I don't recall any of the Apostles tooting their own horns.

No - YOU didn't convert anyone. If your story is true, they were converted through the work of the Holy Spirit.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul

Trump: My People Should ‘Sit Up in Attention’ Like Kim Jong-un’s Staff.

Deckard  posted on  2018-07-31   9:38:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Deckard (#38)

My post was about preaching from the Revelation, which Liberator said (or implied) does not save souls, and I was just offering proof that it does, and I was not "bragging," just making a point. And as for your comment that none of Apostles "bragged" about their accomplishments, that is also not true if you count Paul as an "Apostle." Paul throughout all his epistles, "bragged" about his accomplishments (and seeing a vision, etc) and therefore his "authority" to write to the Churches and tell them what to do. I dont "brag" near as much as Paul did, but I sometimes have to state my credentials, otherwise people wont pay any attention to me. And I give God (or the Holy Spirit as you put it) all the credit.

Barry M

interpreter  posted on  2018-08-01   10:47:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Nostradumbass (#39)

Paul throughout all his epistles, "bragged" about his accomplishments (and seeing a vision, etc)

He always gave credit to the Holy Spirit - not himself.

And I give God (or the Holy Spirit as you put it) all the credit.

No - you really don't.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul

Trump: My People Should ‘Sit Up in Attention’ Like Kim Jong-un’s Staff.

Deckard  posted on  2018-08-01   11:05:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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