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Title: Libertarianism and white nationalism actually aren’t that different
Source: The Diamondback
URL Source: http://www.dbknews.com/2018/06/27/l ... sm-buckley-conservatism-robin/
Published: Jun 26, 2018
Author: Max Foley-Keene
Post Date: 2018-07-08 04:11:35 by Gatlin
Keywords: None
Views: 2281
Comments: 35

One of the occupational hazards of being a college opinion columnist is that, during your undergraduate years, many of your thoughts are liable to be stupid. And while tweets can be deleted and pseudo-intellectual dining hall conversations forgotten, opinion columns persist in the not-too-generous world of the internet.

Because I'm not immune from this malady, my name is attached to some very dumb takes. In The Diamondback's pages, I've suggested that Barack Obama should've escalated the American military presence in Syria and compared excessive road salt in Washington, D.C., to 9/11. But there's one column that stands out as particularly embarrassing. In this piece — which I wrote almost exactly one year ago — I argued the cure for white nationalism in the GOP was a libertarian leader like William F. Buckley.

My biggest mistake was to set up libertarianism and white nationalism as opposing and counteracting ideologies. Essentially, I argued that increased libertarian presence in the conservative movement would inhibit the power of white nationalism.

The argument misses the many ways in which libertarianism and white nationalism are complementary — not competing — strains of thought. On one level, they are merely two shades of a broader ideology: conservatism.

Corey Robin, a scholar of conservatism, has an elegant definition of the ideology that connects historical figures like Edmund Burke to contemporary politicians like Sarah Palin and Donald Trump. He believes that conservatism is, in its essence, a defense of hierarchy, an opposition to democratizing and liberating forces and a counter to revolution. Conservatism represents those who feel their power is under threat and want to reassert their influence.

Within this framework, libertarianism and white nationalism represent two sides of the same conservative coin. Libertarians feel threatened by democratizing or socializing forces within the economy. They defend the agency of the capitalist and land owner and demand the subordination of the tenant and wage worker. Similarly, white nationalists fear the assertion of nonwhite power and convince themselves that whites are experiencing great political and social loss.

Buckley was a skilled conservative thinker because he wove together both libertarian and white nationalist grievance. One of his most lasting intellectual creations was the "bootstraps" argument, which opposed anti-racist public policy by arguing that white immigrants were able to come to the United States and "pull themselves up by their bootstraps."

The bootstraps argument is also frequently wielded against proposals that create a more just economic system, using white folks' desire to maintain racial hierarchy to serve the interests of wealthy capitalists. In this way, libertarian conservatism and white nationalist conservatism work in tandem to prevent American life from becoming more equitable and democratic.

Libertarians have a history of deplorable racial politics. Former congressman and perennial presidential candidate Ron Paul frequently published newsletters with racist content. One article suggested that 95 percent of black males in Washington, D.C. were "semi-criminal or entirely criminal." His son, Rand, has often flip-flopped on whether he supports the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

In recent years, former self-described libertarians like Gavin McInnes, Chris Cantwell and Richard Spencer have become prominent members of the alt-right, suggesting the existence of a "libertarian to alt-right pipeline."

Perhaps this isn't surprising. Libertarianism, after all, is largely based on the premise that everyone rationally advances their self-interest. People who are attracted to this may also fall prey to ideologies — like white nationalism — in which groups or tribes ruthlessly serve their collective interests.

Libertarians will surely balk at this argument. Self-interest isn't the same as collective interest, and I'm not claiming that libertarians will inevitably become nationalists. I'm merely arguing that white nationalism is an easier destination for libertarians than other philosophical traditions.

As Robin has noted, libertarianism is infected with the Nietzschean valorization of the will, the domination of obstacles, the celebration of personal ambition. Those impulses — uninterrupted by notions of love or mutual care or social obligation — aren't unfriendly to nationalism.

So the best way to eradicate white nationalism isn't to endorse another conservative, hierarchical ideology. The best enemy of the atrocious is the good, not the slightly-less-atrocious. White nationalism should be met with a broad, multiracial, social democratic coalition that opposes unjust hierarchies and the ideologies that defend them.

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#1. To: Gatlin (#0) (Edited)

That is why Identity "party"/hive/herd politics is a FAIL.

"infidel of every denomination"
--Thomas Jefferson

What does this mean?

VxH  posted on  2018-07-08   8:24:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: VxH (#1)

Gatlin is having a lot of fun with his little distraction threads.

He can keep some people busy all day long with these articles that no one has ever read before he posted them here. And that is his whole purpose.

The only way to win is not to play.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-07-08   8:53:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Gatlin (#0)

"He believes that conservatism is, in its essence, a defense of hierarchy, an opposition to democratizing and liberating forces and a counter to revolution. Conservatism represents those who feel their power is under threat and want to reassert their influence."

Duh, really? I hereby dub Maz Foley-Keene "Captain Obvious".

And revolution is all about sweeping away the old order to replace it with a new one centered on a new in-group, composed of the revolutionaries.

The answer to it all is a really good, robust, universal education system that is revolutionary in the sense that it - the educational system - does not respect class or hierarchy or the status of the parents, but provides a high quality education to every single child. Then a basic anti- discrimination law is needed so that businesses and financial institutions large and small cannot easily discriminate based on race, creed, color or sex.

The high level of education actuates each individual to seek his fortune, and the anti- discrimination law bulldozes the obnoxious legal and social barriers to entry. People will then sort out much more on the basis of talent and ability, and race, creed, color and sex will be much diminished as sticking points.

That's as well as you can do, and it's pretty damned good.

Go beyond that in a revolutionary direction and you're trying to replace the hierarchy based on race, creed, color and sex - and that's not cricket. Do LESS than that, and you're trying to conservatively retain the existing hierarchy, which is based on race, creed, color and sex, and that's not cricket either.

You do still need a social safety net to catch the people who cannot make it in a meritocracy, so they don't fall to the street and starve - you have to provide for their needs, but that's really not all that expensive. Meritocracy means that those without merit fail. Christianity or Social Welfare (the religious and secular sides of the empathy coin) mean that the fails cannot be left to rot, and have to at least have basic human needs met and maintain basic human dignity.

Conservatives who forget they're also supposed to be Christians tend to also forget they're obligated to meet the basic human needs and sustain the basic human dignity of the failures. Socialists, of course, want to harness up the organized voting and muscle power of the failures to tear down the existing hierarchy and replace it with themselves.

Hierarchy is hierarchy. It always imparts an advantage. Overturning it doesn't improve things overall, it simply destroys what exists and replaces it with new faces. Much better and less destructive to just maintain the hierarchy, but have lots of doors and entry points into it offered by education, and the just provide the education to everybody.

THAT is where the socialism is required: everybody gets well educated at public expense. After that, you don't need the rest of the socialist structure or the control, other than the safety nets of welfare and old age pensions and medical care.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-07-08   9:05:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Gatlin (#0)

I'm merely arguing that white nationalism is an easier destination for libertarians than other philosophical traditions.

Where to black Libertarians go?

misterwhite  posted on  2018-07-08   9:34:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Vicomte13 (#3)

THAT is where the socialism is required: everybody gets well educated at public expense.

Up to what level? High school? Commnity college? Bachelor's? Master's? PhD? Law school? Medical school?

Do you assume everyone is equally capable and will stay in school and not drop out ... like in 9th grade? What about them?

What about trade schools? Is it fair to educate an aspiring welder for $10,000 versus a doctor for $200,000? Should we give the welder $190,000 in cash to make up the difference?

And why would some get to go to Yale and Harvard and MIT and Stanford and others have to settle for state schools?

Your Marxist scheme has a lot of holes. Good theory though. Almost as good as, "From each according to their abilities. To each according to their needs."

misterwhite  posted on  2018-07-08   9:52:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Tooconservative, Everyone (#2) (Edited)

Gatlin is having a lot of fun with his little distraction threads.

The necessity to show that libertarians certainly are pursing to develop a profound political rift dividing the culture is no fun. It is however rewarding to show they are failing in their task. The state of their modern day interpretation of politics is definitely so anti-intellectual and unprincipled that their essential philosophical premises giving rise to the huge differences are rarely discussed much less understood. I am not here to win anything. I am here to present those differences for consideration.

I am in my seemingly innocuous method merely presenting information truthfully characterizing these obsessed cult-minded libertarians as manifested by this body of admirers in their libertarian god, Ron Paul….the object of their intense and undying devotion. I am doing this by disparaging libertarianism with the opposing viewpoints of others. I do this not for fun, but as my civic duty based on the principle that citizens owe some allegiance to determining truth through an objective learning process for those who wish to truly fight for access to knowledge. What underlies my noble cause is my passionate determination for exposing to light the fallacies of libertarianism. To show the major underlying philosophical principle that the purpose and inspiration come from greater than self….which libertarians so devoutly believe. The libertarianism belief of “Self Uber Alles.”

He can keep some people busy all day long with these articles that no one has ever read before he posted them here. And that is his whole purpose.

There are those who describe the Constitution as timeless and perfect in the belief that it is still valid. These same people will then pooh-pooh an article that expresses disdain and contempt for libertarianism but has valid points exposing the fallacy of libertinism….ONLY because the article is a few years old. These narrow minded individuals fail to realize that information is timeless. It is only proper to study history in order to better understand the present. It is obvious that libertarians instantly condemn in any way they can whatever they disagree with simply because it exposes the fallacies of libertinism philosophy.

The only way to win is not to play.

The best way to lose is to cloak yourself blindly in fanatically ignorant libertarian devotion.

Gatlin  posted on  2018-07-08   11:37:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Vicomte13 (#3) (Edited)

THAT is where the socialism is required: everybody

You don't follow Christ you follow marx you dirty unbathed stink pod.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-07-08   11:50:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: misterwhite, Everyone (#4)

[The author is] merely arguing that white nationalism is an easier destination for libertarians than other philosophical traditions. Where to black Libertarians go?
Where are the few black libertarians and why aren’t there more black libertarians?

And why aren’t there prominent women libertarians, is it because women don’t like libertarianism?

Just askin’ …

Gatlin  posted on  2018-07-08   12:43:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Gatlin, Gary Johnson Libertarian (#6)

cloak yourself blindly in fanatically ignorant libertarian devotion

Hondo68  posted on  2018-07-08   12:57:42 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: misterwhite (#5)

Your Marxist scheme has a lot of holes. Good theory though. Almost as good as, "From each according to their abilities. To each according to their needs."

Nothing Marxist about it. We were allocating resources for public education in America long before Marx was born. Simple-minded reductionism simply gets thrust aside by the realities of what works and what does not.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-07-08   14:35:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: A K A Stone (#7)

You don't follow Christ you follow marx you dirty unbathed stink pod.

Read Christ many times. He's right. Never read Marx. I hear he paraphrased St. Luke on something. I bathe daily and smell of roses.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-07-08   14:37:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Vicomte13 (#10)

We were allocating resources for public education in America long before Marx was born.

Yeah. One teacher in a one-room schoolhouse teaching grades 1-8. No school lunch program ... or school breakfast ... or school dinner. Misbehavior could result in "detention, suspension, or expulsion, but it could also result in a lashing".

I say we return to the old days and fund grades 1-8 under those conditions.

misterwhite  posted on  2018-07-08   18:48:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: misterwhite (#12)

Yeah. One teacher in a one-room schoolhouse teaching grades 1-8. No school lunch program ... or school breakfast ... or school dinner. Misbehavior could result in "detention, suspension, or expulsion, but it could also result in a lashing".

I say we return to the old days and fund grades 1-8 under those conditions.

Of course you do.

One teacher, in one-room schoolhouses is ok, I suppose, but that will mean a LOT more teachers, and a LOT more schools. Probably too expensive.

School breakfast and school lunch are necessary. People have to eat to be able to think well, and the whole point of education is to give each individual the intellectual patrimony to make his own way in the world. Given poverty and the bad decisions of parents, the failure to feed kids properly at home is pandemic. And if that is not countered by the government through school meals, the effects of malnutrition will reduce the intellectual level of the next generation, and we'll end up having more crime, more dependent adults, etc. The whole POINT of robust universal quality education is to cut off the dysfunction at each generation, so that parents who wreck themselves do not bequeath wrecked children on society. The society has to step in and raise up the kids, because the kids can be productive and do great things as individuals in their own right - if their basic needs are provided for. Yes, parents SHOULD be the providers, but if they were so fucked up they don't, our choice is to have generations of imbeciles, or to cut it off by feeding and educating the generation we have with us now, so that fewer and fewer of them themselves because wards and problems, and more and more of them are able to support their kids.

As far as the lashing goes, nah. It doesn't produce the best results. It produces kids who grow up to hit people.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-07-09   9:12:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Vicomte13 (#13) (Edited)

The whole POINT of robust universal quality education is to cut off the dysfunction at each generation, so that parents who wreck themselves do not bequeath wrecked children on society.

If the parent won't nourish their children, what makes you think they will help them with homework, take them to afterschool activities, or even insist they go to school? Or stay in school?

misterwhite  posted on  2018-07-09   9:28:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Vicomte13 (#13)

School breakfast and school lunch are necessary.

Yep. As is a good dinner, doing homework, and living in a clean and safe environment.

Perhaps you'll next suggest that the taxpayers foot the bill for K-12 boarding schools?

misterwhite  posted on  2018-07-09   9:32:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: misterwhite (#14)

If the parent won't nourish their children, what makes to think they will help them with homework, take them to afterschool activities, or even insist they go to school? Or stay in school?

Many won't. But if the state provides the support, some will, and those that do climb out of poverty and become productive, tax-paying citizens who raise their own children right when the time comes.

If we want to winnow out the ghettos, it's going to take a heavy investment of money in education, and it's going to take time. We're not going to get all of the kids to launch out of there, maybe even not most. But a substantial number will, and in three or four generations the situation will be much better.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-07-09   9:47:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: misterwhite (#15)

Perhaps you'll next suggest that the taxpayers foot the bill for K-12 boarding schools?

That's what orphanages are. Whatever it takes to break the cycle. Yes.

If you break the cycle, the problem becomes less and less, crime rates collapse, the economy improves. Eventually you don't have the mass of students you have and you can pare back to what is needed.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-07-09   9:48:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Vicomte13 (#17)

Whatever it takes to break the cycle. Yes.

Skip the education, then. Just provide everyone with a monthly stipend.

misterwhite  posted on  2018-07-09   12:16:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: misterwhite (#18)

Skip the education, then. Just provide everyone with a monthly stipend.

No. Because many people will take the education and run with it, and rise out of the poverty, and have children who are not in poverty.

We pay them the monthly stipend anyway: it's called welfare. And we pay for their as adults in the high cost of prisons and policing and crime.

Far, far better to invest the extra money and effort into educating every single child, so that most of them are able to get out of ghetto or the trailer park, and not perpetuate the cycle of poverty.

The children are not guilty of the sins of their parents, and are precisely where we should be fully invested.

The stipend is for the broken parents. The children need to be given the ladder out.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-07-09   14:01:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Vicomte13 (#19)

Far, far better to invest the extra money and effort into educating every single child,

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Such a good theory. But when you have a dropout rate of 30-40%, your plan falls apart.

misterwhite  posted on  2018-07-09   14:15:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: misterwhite (#20)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Such a good theory. But when you have a dropout rate of 30-40%, your plan falls apart.

So, it doesn't. That means that 60-70% get through, and go on to be productive members of society.

the 30-40% who drop out, some of them, end up straightening themselves out. A lot don't.

Keep splitting the generations by 70/30 - remembering that the black population in particular is only at population stagnation - it has balanced fertility and is not growing - and you gradually winnow down the numbers of the truly wretched.

It takes a long time and a lot of money to undo a deeply-rooted social problem, but we have forever, and it's important that we do it. Therefore, we must steady on.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-07-09   15:54:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Vicomte13 (#21)

That means that 60-70% get through, and go on to be productive members of society.

Yeah, 60-70% graduate, but 50% of those can't read or do basic math. Even if someone does hire them, they have no work ethic. And if they're a minority, the employer can expect a discrimination lawsuit in the future.

So there's that.

misterwhite  posted on  2018-07-09   16:55:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: misterwhite (#22) (Edited)

Yeah, 60-70% graduate, but 50% of those can't read or do basic math.

That's because we do not place sufficient focus on the education. That's what we need to fix: more effort. More training. More personnel. More expense.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-07-09   17:15:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Vicomte13 (#23) (Edited)

That's because we do not place sufficient focus on the ed education.

Correct. Our highly paid and dedicated-to-the-children union teachers simply pass them on to the next grade whether they qualify or not. On and on it goes like the Hot Potato game until the child is so embarrassed to participate in a class for which they're not prepared that they drop out.

Girls know the system. If they get pregnant, they don't need to ever work. The government will provided them with assistance worth $60,000 (gross income) per year -- three times any minimum wage job they could get AND they don't have to work.

directorblue.blogspot.com/2012/07/dont-fear-fiscal-cliff-fear-welfare.html

misterwhite  posted on  2018-07-09   17:45:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: misterwhite (#24)

There are teachers and children who game the system, yes. That will always be so. Most don't.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-07-09   19:54:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Vicomte13 (#11)

I hear he paraphrased St. Luke on something

A dirty Catholic lie. One of thousands. Post your Marxist propaganda so we can laugh at your expense.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-07-10   7:45:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Vicomte13 (#3)

Conservatives who forget they're also supposed to be Christians tend to also forget they're obligated to meet the basic human needs and sustain the basic human dignity of the failures

Not true. We are all accountable for ourselves. We are to be charitable but that doesn't mean getting on the public dope. Oh well you have your own stupid ideas in your head and nobody can change them as you said.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-07-10   7:48:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Vicomte13 (#25)

There are teachers and children who game the system, yes. That will always be so. Most don't.

So if you want to improve education, fix the system such that it can't be gamed.

You simply want to pile on more benefits to a broken system.

misterwhite  posted on  2018-07-10   9:13:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Vicomte13 (#3)

Conservatives who forget they're also supposed to be Christians tend to also forget they're obligated to meet the basic human needs and sustain the basic human dignity of the failures.

I agree. Christians are morally obligated to do those things. And they do those things with their contributions of time and money through charities.

Your solution is to have the government steal more of their money and give it to a broken education and welfare system.

misterwhite  posted on  2018-07-10   9:21:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: misterwhite (#28)

So if you want to improve education, fix the system such that it can't be gamed.

That's impossible.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-07-10   10:29:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: misterwhite (#29)

I agree. Christians are morally obligated to do those things. And they do those things with their contributions of time and money through charities.

Your solution is to have the government steal more of their money and give it to a broken education and welfare system.

God did not make helping the poor optional.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-07-10   10:30:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Vicomte13 (#31)

God did not make helping the poor optional.

Is that the 11th commandment?

misterwhite  posted on  2018-07-10   11:03:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Vicomte13 (#30)

That's impossible.

Then you're simply throwing good money after bad.

misterwhite  posted on  2018-07-10   11:14:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Vicomte13 (#30)

So if you want to improve education, fix the system such that it can't be gamed.

That's impossible.

Take away all government benefits from the parent(s) if their child drops out of school.

Children must pass a standardized test before being allowed to graduate to the next higher grade.

All students must pass a standardized test before receiving a high school diploma.

All existing teachers must take a qualification test.

Teacher's unions are dissolved.

All parents are given school vouchers -- good for public, charter, private, or home schooling.

All communities must offer a vocational education program.

Federal student loans will only be offered to those seeking a degree in STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics). All other loans are obtained through private institutions.

misterwhite  posted on  2018-07-10   11:36:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: misterwhite (#32)

Is that the 11th commandment?

The Ten Commandments applied to Hebrews in Israel, not the world.

Jesus' commandments are what apply to us. He said to help the poor.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-07-10   12:27:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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