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Title: Libertarian Songs
Source: SoDakLiberty
URL Source: http://sodakliberty.com/archived-pages/libertarian-songs/
Published: Nov 26, 2013
Author: Ken Santema
Post Date: 2018-06-29 06:56:06 by Deckard
Ping List: *Music*     Subscribe to *Music*
Keywords: None
Views: 5049
Comments: 52

On social media (such as Twitter, Facebook, Google+) I often post a libertarian song of the day. I didn’t really think anyone really cared or paid attention. That is until I didn’t do so for a few days, then I had all kinds of people asking if I was OK!

Below is a list of songs I believe have at least some libertarian (small l) spirit to them. Yes, some of these do have swear words and adult concepts. This list is far from complete. I just add to it as I do my ‘libertarian song of the day’ thing (and I’m not gonna bother putting older ones I posted until I get to them again).

I have also included the link to each artists website. This is my way to give credit where credit is due. Some of these artists such as Rush are well known and obvious, but I also try to find some that are possibly outside of the mainstream.

Alice Cooper – Freedom – YouTube – “Cuz I never walk away from what I know is right”

Barry McGuire – Eve of Destruction – YouTube – “And, tell me over and over and over and over again, my friend, You don’t believe We’re on the eve Of destruction”. One of the best anti-war songs ever.

The Beatles – Taxman – YouTube – “If you take a walk, I’ll tax your feet”. Do I really need to explain this one??

The Charlie Daniels Band – Long Haired Country Boy – YouTube w/lyrics – “But I ain’t askin’ nobody for nothin’, If I can’t get it on my own. You don’t like the way I’m livin’, You just leave this long-haired country boy alone.” Sums up self-reliance pretty damn well!

Cheap Trick – Taxman, Mr. Thief – YouTube – “You work hard, you went hungry, Now the taxman is out to get you” – Sums up the income tax pretty damn well.

Cream – Politician – YouTube – “I support the left, tho’ I’m leanin’ to the right. But I’m just not there when it’s coming to a fight.” I think those lyrics sum up the morals of politicians quite well. Plus you gotta love the bass playing in this song!

Creedence Clearwater Revival – Fortunate Son – YouTube – Big government forced class warfare (literal and figurative) are tackled in rock classic!

Creedence Clearwater Revival – Who’ll Stop the Rain – YouTube w/lyrics – “Caught up in the fable I watched the tower grow, Five year plans and new deals wrapped in golden chains.” This song just gets more relevant every year.

George Jones – White Lightning – YouTube – “Well the “G” men, “T” men, revenuers, too; Searchin’ for the place where he made his brew”. Great song about a moonshiner from a true music legend (RIP).

Hank Williams Jr. – Country Boy Can Survive – YouTube – Don’t get much more of an independent libertarian feel than this classic song from Bocephus.

John Cougar Mellencamp – Authority Song – YouTube w/lyrics – I’ve always seen this song being about the plight of  libertarians, set to a nice beat!

The Kinks – 20th Century Man – YouTube – “I was born in a welfare state, ruled by bureaucracy”. Its tough growing up in a country destroyed by 20th century politics.

Living Colour – Cult of Personality – YouTube – “I exploit you, still you love me. I tell you one and one makes three. I’m the cult of personality.” I can think of many political leaders this applies to.

Merle Haggard – America First – YouTube – “Freedom is stuck in reverse”. Merle puts forth a good case for changing our current overseas interventionism ways.

PokerFace – Calling For a Revolution – YouTube – “Its time to stop the tyranny you keep pushing thru your bills”. This song rocks from a freedom perspective!

PokerFace – I’d Rather Die Than Be Your Slave –  YouTube (live) – “He’s come to take away my liberties” A great song for the freedom movement.

Rush – Anthem – YouTube – “Well I know they’ve always to you selfishness was wrong, yes it was for me, not you, I came to write this song!”. Don’t much closer to a Randian derived song.

Rush – Freewill – YouTube w/lyrics – “I will choose a path that’s clear, I will choose Free Will!” and “If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice!”.  A song to live by!

Rush – Red Barchetta – YouTube w/lyrics – Pure freedom best sums up this classic song.

Rush – The Trees – YouTube – “by hatchet, axe and saw”, don’t get much obvious reference to abuse of government power.

Rush – Tom Sawyer – YouTube w/lyrics – “Though his mind is not for rent”. One of the greatest lines in any song ever!

Sammy Hagar – I Can’t Drive 55 – YouTube – A song from the failed attempt to curb gas consumption by the federal government.

Steppenwolf – Monster – YouTube – I completely forgot about this song until The Circle Bastiat blog posted about it. It is a song that seems more relevant each year.

Steve Earle – Copperhead Road – YouTube – ” Well the DEAs got a chopper in the air, I wake up screaming like I’m back over there”. The comparison of alcohol and drug prohibition in this song is dead on.

Ten Years After – I’d Love to Change the World – YouTube w/lyrics – “I’d love to change the world, But I don’t know what to do, So I’ll leave it up to you.” The verses in this song seem to look at the confusing contradictions between the left and the right. The whole left/right situation has made them not care about politics or the outcome.

Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers – Refugee – YouTube – “Everybody’s had to fight to be free” – This song is a perfect analogy for citizens being victim of government.

Waylon Jennings – Outlaw Shit – YouTube – “What started out to be a joke, the law don’t understand.” The law has no common sense in the failed drug war. It is still hard to believe country legends like Waylon were hassled by the feds.

The Who – Won’t Get Fooled Again – YouTube (Live in Texas ’75) – “Then I’ll get on my knees and pray, we don’t get fooled again”. The lyrics in this speak of political revolution.


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#1. To: Deckard (#0)

Kind of an oldies list really. Aren't all these songs 25-50 years old?

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-06-29   7:00:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Tooconservative (#1)

Kind of an oldies list really. Aren't all these songs 25-50 years old?

All except for Poker Face by Lady Gaga -- though I don't see how that song applies to (small l) Libertarians.

misterwhite  posted on  2018-06-29   9:11:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: misterwhite (#2) (Edited)

There were two old Pokerface songs listed. That was the group Pokerface, not the song of the same name by Gaga. Pokerface was kind of a Ron Paul soft rock group, played at his rallies mostly, I think.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-06-29   9:23:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Tooconservative (#3)

not the song of the same name by Gaga

You do realize I was being facetious.

misterwhite  posted on  2018-06-29   10:34:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: misterwhite (#4)

You do realize I was being facetious.

No, you were wrong and are desperately trying to save your reputation with backpedaling and distracting readers with multimedia.

Even among LF's readership of millions, no one is buying it.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-06-29   10:59:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Tooconservative (#5)

You saw right through me.

misterwhite  posted on  2018-06-29   11:25:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: misterwhite (#6) (Edited)

You saw right through me.

You need to work on your poker face.

Now you'll have to delete your Facebook and Twitter account and disappear from Teh Interwebs completely.

That's how these scandals usually end.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-06-29   11:42:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: misterwhite (#4)

Gaga. That's more my style than the political music, really.

Bad Romance is even more fun: "I want your love, and all your lover's revenge You and me could write a bad romance".

The Madonna "Material Girl" video from way back has a great ending too. After she strips the watches and wallets off all of the boys in the dance, she drives off in the old pickup with the guy who gave her the flower.

What does this have to do with libertarian music? The only really interesting part of the libertarian movement, from my perspective, is the liberation brought by the sexual revolution. Life is better on account of that - and that wasn't so much against law and government, even, but against the tyranny of private moral opinion.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-06-29   12:25:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Tooconservative (#3)

Pokerface was kind of a Ron Paul soft rock group, played at his rallies

"Soft rock"?

Yeah, OK - whatever.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul

Trump: My People Should ‘Sit Up in Attention’ Like Kim Jong-un’s Staff.

Deckard  posted on  2018-06-29   12:59:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Deckard (#0)

Hondo68  posted on  2018-06-29   13:09:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Vicomte13 (#8) (Edited)

"I want your love, and all your lover's revenge You and me could write a bad romance".

I think that is "...all your love is revenge...". Don't rely on those lyrics sites, some of them are wrong. Some also render "I'm a freak bitch, baby" as "I'm a free bitch, baby".

Also, the dancer to Gaga's forward-left is the star dancer. She almost upstages Gaga. I watch her more than Gaga; she's totally into it. More perfect even than Robert Palmer's gang of film-noir miniskirt dancers in white pancake makeup with heavy mascara and crimson lipstick.

Definitely her best song. I even keep a copy of the Vevo YouBoob video. The video was pretty excellent too (not that the bar is very high). I like at the end how, when she switches to Marilyn-in-a-bustier mode, what she sings is completely out of sync with the video. A deliberately slapdash edit that somehow draws you in even more. Very stylish stuff.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-06-29   13:28:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Tooconservative (#11) (Edited)

I always heard "I want your lovin' and your lover's revenge".

Maybe it's a mondegreen.

My favorite song lately is "Shut up and dance with me". It's the classic vignette of the babbling boy and the decisive girl.

There is a saying that translates to something like "A boy chases a girl until she catches him" - and that's what that song is about, par excellence.

Him: "I don't know how it happened!" "You're holding back." "We were bound to be together!" "This woman is my destiny!!!"

Her: "Shut up and dance with me."

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-06-29   15:38:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Deckard (#0)

Willie Green  posted on  2018-06-29   16:53:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Vicomte13 (#8)

The only really interesting part of the libertarian movement, from my perspective, is the liberation brought by the sexual revolution.

By "interesting" I assume you mean "destructive", and by "liberation" I assume you mean "misery".

What has the sexual revolution given us? Increased number of abortions, the break-up of families, the spread of diseases, more single mothers, more crime, more welfare, and an increase in the tolerance of all immoral behavior.

Thanks, Libertarians. This is what happens when you implement only half of their philosophy -- allowing more freedoms but removing personal responsibity, thereby forcing the consequences of their behavior on society.

misterwhite  posted on  2018-06-30   8:55:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Tooconservative (#11)

I think that is "...all your love is revenge...".

I want your love and I want your revenge
You and me could write a bad romance
I want your love and all your lover's revenge
You and me could write a bad romance

I don't mean to be a contrarian, but "I want your love, and all your lover's revenge" makes more sense.

This is a bad romance, not a healthy one. She gets off not only on his love but the jealousy/revenge of his current and former lovers.

In the lyrics right before that, she even wants his revenge for making him love her.

My two cents.

misterwhite  posted on  2018-06-30   9:12:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: misterwhite (#15)

I don't mean to be a contrarian, but "I want your love, and all your lover's revenge" makes more sense.

No, it doesn't. Not consistent with the rest of the song's lyrics.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-06-30   10:04:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Deckard (#0)

Much of Rock is "Libertarian". Even "Anarchist".

The #1 Anthem for Libertarianism is 'Born To Be Wild':

Liberator  posted on  2018-06-30   10:56:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Tooconservative (#5)

Even among LF's readership of millions, no one is buying it.

HA!

If LF had a monthly newzpaper, I'd nominate you as its publisher.

Liberator  posted on  2018-06-30   10:57:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Vicomte13 (#8) (Edited)

Liberation brought by the sexual revolution. Life is better on account of that - and that wasn't so much against law and government, even, but against the tyranny of private moral opinion.

Is life *really* better since Pop Culture music advanced this so-called "tyranny of morality" in general? (As well as the "sexual revolution"?)

Used to be that suggestive lyrics were somewhat ambiguous. Hasn't really turned out well to obliterate public morality by weaponizing private opinion PUBLICLY like Gaga and Madonna, etal, has it?

Liberator  posted on  2018-06-30   11:03:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Tooconservative (#11)

Definitely her best song. I even keep a copy of the Vevo YouBoob video.

Say it ain't so, Joe.

Liberator  posted on  2018-06-30   11:06:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Tooconservative, Vicomte13 (#11) (Edited)

More perfect even than Robert Palmer's gang of film-noir miniskirt dancers in white pancake makeup with heavy mascara and crimson lipstick.

Gaga: About as subtle and innocent as a runaway freight train.

I MUCH prefer the cheesy, tongue-in-cheek 80s video fare (and music) of say Robert Palmer and ZZTOP's 'Sharp Dressed Man' and 'Legs'.

Liberator  posted on  2018-06-30   11:10:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: misterwhite, Vicomte13 (#14)

By "interesting" I assume you mean "destructive", and by "liberation" I assume you mean "misery".

What has the sexual revolution given us? Increased number of abortions, the break-up of families, the spread of diseases, more single mothers, more crime, more welfare, and an increase in the tolerance of all immoral behavior.

Thanks, Libertarians.

Yup. Exactly.

It IS what Libertarianism has given us (at its extreme it is Anarchy).

Liberator  posted on  2018-06-30   11:14:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: misterwhite (#14)

What has the sexual revolution given us?

A great deal of pleasure.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-06-30   11:41:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Liberator (#19)

Is life *really* better since Pop Culture music advanced this so-called "tyranny of morality" in general? (As well as the "sexual revolution"?)

Yeah, life is really better since the sexual revolution. And it's better since the defeat of the Christian Women's Temperance Union with the repeal of Prohibition also.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-06-30   11:43:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Vicomte13 (#24)

Yeah, life is really better since the sexual revolution.

Maybe your sex life was "better"; But overall quality of life? For whom? You specifically or America and world in general?

Liberator  posted on  2018-06-30   11:44:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Liberator (#21)

Gaga: About as subtle and innocent as a runaway freight train.

Straightforward sexuality with clever lyrics and a fun beat: good.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-06-30   11:45:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Vicomte13 (#24) (Edited)

It's [Life] better since the defeat of the Christian Women's Temperance Union with the repeal of Prohibition also.

Ok, but should there be a balance of libertarianism?

You surely would concede the need for limitations or at least disciplines of human behavior within the realm of "liberty", right?

Liberator  posted on  2018-06-30   11:46:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Liberator (#25)

Maybe your sex life was "better"; But overall quality of life? For whom? You specifically or America and world in general?

I vote my own pocketbook on economics. No different on other mattes.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-06-30   11:46:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Vicomte13 (#28)

But...what about the Culture? Society? Civilization?

At its limit, wouldn't you be advocating a Wild West of both sex and economics?

Liberator  posted on  2018-06-30   11:48:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Liberator (#27)

Ok, but should there be a balance of libertarianism?

You surely would concede the need for limitations or al least disciplines of human behavior within the realm of "liberty", right?

No, I don't concede any abstract principles. Everything must be taken case by case.

Alcohol needs to be legal. I'd set the drinking age at 16, but nobody asks me. 18 makes sense. 21 is too high. Alcohol Prohibition is religious fanaticism of an enemy religion - defeating the Prohibition means defeating that religion.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-06-30   11:49:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Vicomte13 (#28)

In 'The Republic of Vicomte13-World (OR who it even be a "Republic"?), would its model be a lot like Amsterdam and Vegas?

Liberator  posted on  2018-06-30   11:50:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Liberator (#29)

But...what about the Culture? Society? Civilization?

At its limit, wouldn't you be advocating a Wild West of both sex and economics?

Society and culture should be moderate and tolerant.

There needs to be a social safety net.

What is a "Wild West" of sex, exactly? Adults being able to do what they want with other adults? Seems like that ought to be the baseline normal, and that it's nobody else's business.

Not sure what economics has to do with sex. Regulated free markets, with a strong social welfare state and a strong rule of law are what I think is proper economic policy.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-06-30   11:52:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Liberator (#31)

Amsterdam... Vegas

No. Paris.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-06-30   11:52:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Vicomte13 (#30)

No, I don't concede any abstract principles. Everything must be taken case by case.

We deal in the abstract as well as definite principles that we ALL agree with every day -- including our faith in God, Bible, Law of the (local) Land and Constitutional Law.

Alcohol needs to be legal. I'd set the drinking age at 16, but nobody asks me. 18 makes sense. 21 is too high. Alcohol Prohibition is religious fanaticism of an enemy religion - defeating the Prohibition means defeating that religion.

I believe wine has always been an exception.

(I'm asking...thanks for answering ;-)

I agree -- a "war" HAS been waged. Whether via alcohol, drugs, sexuality, and degree and consensus of moral absolutes or ANY "absolute". Again, once a society moves the goal posts beyond "moderation", abuse always becomes the norm.

Though I wouldn't have supported alcohol prohibition, I understood the reason; Wives/women recognized its destructive qualities to relationships, children, wives AND society at ITS limit. Here's where a balance of God-given/Constitutional "Liberty" and Free Will" came into play.

Yes, religion, (aka Christian principles of "Moderation") were eventually opposed by most of the citizenry, who began giving more weight to the religion (and "freedom") of Secular Humanism's Two Hyper-Libertarian Commandments:

"Do it if it feels good" and "Do What Thou Will is the Law".

Given the ongoing 100+ year war on "religion", can one actually say the loss of Christianity as a behavioral moderating force, discipline, and influence has given way to a "better" way of living in the religion of secular humanism?

Year 2018. How that fruit ripening? Has Maximum-Libertarianism at the expense of Christian principles and ethics actually helped advance the American family, culture and Western Civ?

Liberator  posted on  2018-06-30   12:14:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Vicomte13 (#32)

Society and culture should be moderate and tolerant.

Agreed.

IF you had to choose a decade, a juncture at which you personally feel America (or Europe) was at it's free-est, most creative, disciplined and "balanced" -- aka "Best America", which decade span would Vicomte13 World best emulate it? (and what major EO would King Vic decree?)

Liberator  posted on  2018-06-30   12:18:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Vicomte13 (#32) (Edited)

There needs to be a social safety net.

Just Financially? Medically? Or in behavioral counseling as well?

Liberator  posted on  2018-06-30   12:21:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Vicomte13 (#33)

Paris. (aka, the Capital/Model of Vic-World).

Ever been there?

Pre-Muzzie Invasion? Or would it matter?

Your ideal Paris would be circa (??)

(Given that, I'd think you might have seriously considered a move to Quebec.)

Liberator  posted on  2018-06-30   12:24:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Vicomte13 (#32)

What is a "Wild West" of sex, exactly?

Amsterdam. Vegas. Hollywood. DC. The typical college dorm, 2018.

Liberator  posted on  2018-06-30   12:26:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Liberator (#37) (Edited)

Ever been there?

Lived there for several years. Went to university there for a while. Have my French law degree from the Sorbonne. Practiced law there. Have a lot of family there (some of them Muslim). Lots of friends there, going way back. I like couscous merguez and tagine.

Was most recently there two months ago.

Will retire there and probably die and be buried there.

So yes, I've been there, and will be there again.

Vegas is sleazy, monochrome and debased.

Amsterdam smells of pot and has women for sale in the windows. Skeevy.

Paris is the epicenter of Western civilization. There is no comparison.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-06-30   12:42:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Vicomte13 (#39)

Lived there [Paris] for several years.

Went to university there for a while. Have my French law degree from the Sorbonne. Practiced law there. Have a lot of family there (some of them Muslim). Lots of friends there, going way back. I like couscous merguez and tagine.

Thanks for sharing. Well...You do have quite a bit of real-life reference and experience on which to base your preference of residence/world.

A French law degree. Pretty amazing. (In what area of expertise?)

Have NO idea what "merguez and tagine" are. Big Escargot fan?

I assume you are fluent in French. DID you ever consider moving to Quebec?

(Ugggh, did you just say you have Muzzie relatives? By marriage or blood?)

Was most recently there two months ago. Will retire there and probably die and be buried there.

Do you retain duel-citizenship?

It sounds as if you consider France your #1 home -- whether roots, culture, or essence.

Liberator  posted on  2018-06-30   12:53:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: Vicomte13 (#23)

You regularly champion adultery. Does your wife know you cheat? Does she even care?

Maybe she wishes you bathed regularly

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-06-30   13:23:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: A K A Stone (#41)

His thread is retarded

Long live the Taliban Freedom Fighters!

continental op  posted on  2018-06-30   13:46:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Liberator (#40)

My wife and child have dual citizenship. I have the equivalent of a "green card". I am mostly French in background.

Quebec City is nice, and so is Montreal, but Canada is French-speaking North America, not France.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-06-30   15:29:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: A K A Stone (#41)

ou regularly champion adultery. Does your wife know you cheat? Does she even care?

Maybe she wishes you bathed regularly

I don't cheat. Adultery jokes are standard fare humor.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-06-30   15:30:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: A K A Stone (#44)

I don't cheat, but if I wanted to, or my wife wanted to, it would certainly not be the government's business. I don't cheat because I don't want to. Which is the proper reason not to. That the law is going to intervene and do something to me if I do is medieval. No reason to give nagging ninnies that sort of power.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-06-30   15:43:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: Vicomte13 (#43)

My wife and child have dual citizenship.

You cannot have two masters.

Dual citizenship is wrong.

They should pick a country. Or be stripped of citizenship.

It isn't right.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-07-01   9:39:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: Vicomte13 (#44)

I don't cheat. Adultery jokes are standard fare humor.

If you say so.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-07-01   9:40:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: A K A Stone (#46) (Edited)

You cannot have two masters.

Our master is God.

Countries are pieces of land with a government. The land is a land. The government is a tax collector and law enforcer. It is only a "master" in the sense that a slave overseer is "master". A slave owes no heart allegiance to an overseer.

Dual citizenship is not wrong, any more than having licenses to practice in different jurisdictions. "Wrong" would imply that there is some sort of deep moral, religious significance to the government of a land. Actually, the government is a service provider. I pay it one third of my income, and it provides me a tableau of moderately shabby public services that I would only use if I had to. The US government was my employer for 19 years, paying me a small salary in exchange for oceans of my time and risks to my life. To the extent to which I "owe" the government anything at all, I paid it with my youth through "service". And it spent considerable sums to equip me to be a proper mercenary in its service. There were always plenty of men to replace me if I didn't want to do it.

Pick a country? It's pretty simple. My wife would choose to be just French, but American tax law is predatory and would strip a great deal of our marital assets away at my death if she is not a citizen. So she became a citizen to protect herself against being raped by the US government at the time of my death. Now she has the "privilege" of having to pay US taxes even when she is at home in France.

Citizenship for her is a pure cost-benefit analysis.

I'm American, and can work in Europe thanks to being married to a French woman, so I have no appreciable incentive to obtain dual citizenship. There have been times when things going on in the USA have made me so mad that I've filled out the paperwork to obtain French citizenship, but it's a hassle I didn't feel like going through.

My daughter was born a citizen of both places, through parentage. She is, as a matter of biological fact, both American and French, and there is no reason why she should have to swear undying allegiance to one government or another. She is privately schooled and her sport and travel are privately financed. She doesn't "owe" either place a damned thing.

God - that is where our allegiance is. If America turns on God I will throw America in the trash, just exactly as my ancestors threw France in the trash when France decided that France was more important than family.

Family is more important than country.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-07-01   10:00:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Vicomte13 (#48)

Citizenship for her is a pure cost-benefit analysis.

That isn't right.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-07-01   10:21:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: Vicomte13 (#48)

If America turns on God I will throw America in the trash,

That's a good one.

When are you abandoning the Catholic church?

Oh just hot air huh.

You're not Catholic. They believe the Bible is the word of God. They give it lip service anyway. You don't.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-07-01   10:23:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: Vicomte13 (#48)

Family is more important than country.

You sure got that right.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-07-01   10:23:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: A K A Stone (#50)

You're not Catholic. They believe the Bible is the word of God. They give it lip service anyway. You don't.

You say I'm not Catholic. The priests of my parish, who know me well, differ with you. And they're the ones who have the authority to decide that.

If they decide to turn me away from communion, then I will agree wth you that I am not Catholic.

Until then, I will know that the truth is that you understand Catholicism from the perspective of a hostile enemy sitting outside, taking certain doctrines you have heard and twisting them into a caricature.

So yeah, I'm Catholic, and being a cradle Catholic I'm in a far, far better position to know what being Catholic IS than you are. You've been an enemy of the Catholic Church from the first moment you were taught of its existence by people who, likewise, despised the Church.

What you think "Catholic" is is a confection of your own mind and your religion. It's not reality

You say that Catholics believe the Bible is the word of God. That is true. But what we mean by that is not what you mean when you say the same words. To be inspired by God has a different meaning to a Catholic than to a Protestant like you. A Catholic will look at the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, see the frescoes there, and say that the painter, Michaelangelo, was inspired by God to paint that. And the Catholic will mean EXACTLY THE SAME THING when he says that as what he means when he says the Bible is inspired by God. The Sistine Chapel frescoes are as equally inspired by God as the Bible. THAT is what "inspired by God" MEANS.

YOU think it means something completely different, something that is strange, excessive and frankly, malignant, because it is not true. You folks assign EXCESSIVE authority to the Bible and to the idea of "word of God".

We say the same words, but we do not at all mean the same things by them. I know that, but you don't, so you use these terms as weapons - because you think they are hard and fast definitions. But they're flimsy thing. There is no written thing that is an infallible, exact, direct oracle into God's mind. The Bible isn't. The Sistine Chapel isn't. The Canon Law isn't. The Pope's pronouncements are not. "Inspired by God" means just exactly that: God moved me to do this. It does not mean "I am a puppet that God is manipulated to produce this writing, and God will perfectly preserve it through the ages and through translations, so that it can act as a source of magical power to perfectly program new minds." THat's what YOU mean by "the Bible is the word of God". Nothing like that remotely exists on earth. It isn't real.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-07-01   10:47:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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