[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Mail]  [Sign-in]  [Setup]  [Help]  [Register] 

"International court’s attack on Israel a sign of the free world’s moral collapse"

"Pete Hegseth Is Right for the DOD"

"Why Our Constitution Secures Liberty, Not Democracy"

Woodworking and Construction Hacks

"CNN: Reporters Were Crying and Hugging in the Hallways After Learning of Matt Gaetz's AG Nomination"

"NEW: Democrat Officials Move to Steal the Senate Race in Pennsylvania, Admit to Breaking the Law"

"Pete Hegseth Is a Disruptive Choice for Secretary of Defense. That’s a Good Thing"

Katie Britt will vote with the McConnell machine

Battle for Senate leader heats up — Hit pieces coming from Thune and Cornyn.

After Trump’s Victory, There Can Be No Unity Without A Reckoning

Vivek Ramaswamy, Dark-horse Secretary of State Candidate

Megyn Kelly has a message for Democrats. Wait for the ending.

Trump to choose Tom Homan as his “Border Czar”

"Trump Shows Demography Isn’t Destiny"

"Democrats Get a Wake-Up Call about How Unpopular Their Agenda Really Is"

Live Election Map with ticker shows every winner.

Megyn Kelly Joins Trump at His Final PA Rally of 2024 and Explains Why She's Supporting Him

South Carolina Lawmaker at Trump Rally Highlights Story of 3-Year-Old Maddie Hines, Killed by Illegal Alien

GOP Demands Biden, Harris Launch Probe into Twice-Deported Illegal Alien Accused of Killing Grayson Davis

Previously-Deported Illegal Charged With Killing Arkansas Children’s Hospital Nurse in Horror DUI Crash

New Data on Migrant Crime Rates Raises Eyebrows, Alarms

Thousands of 'potentially fraudulent voter registration applications' Uncovered, Stopped in Pennsylvania

Michigan Will Count Ballot of Chinese National Charged with Voting Illegally

"It Did Occur" - Kentucky County Clerk Confirms Voting Booth 'Glitch'' Shifted Trump Votes To Kamala

Legendary Astronaut Buzz Aldrin 'wholeheartedly' Endorses Donald Trump

Liberal Icon Naomi Wolf Endorses Trump: 'He's Being More Inclusive'

(Washed Up Has Been) Singer Joni Mitchell Screams 'F*** Trump' at Hollywood Bowl

"Analysis: The Final State of the Presidential Race"

He’ll, You Pieces of Garbage

The Future of Warfare -- No more martyrdom!

"Kamala’s Inane Talking Points"

"The Harris Campaign Is Testament to the Toxicity of Woke Politics"

Easy Drywall Patch

Israel Preparing NEW Iran Strike? Iran Vows “Unimaginable” Response | Watchman Newscast

In Logansport, Indiana, Kids are Being Pushed Out of Schools After Migrants Swelled County’s Population by 30%: "Everybody else is falling behind"

Exclusive — Bernie Moreno: We Spend $110,000 Per Illegal Migrant Per Year, More than Twice What ‘the Average American Makes’

Florida County: 41 of 45 People Arrested for Looting after Hurricanes Helene and Milton are Noncitizens

Presidential race: Is a Split Ticket the only Answer?

hurricanes and heat waves are Worse

'Backbone of Iran's missile industry' destroyed by IAF strikes on Islamic Republic

Joe Rogan Experience #2219 - Donald Trump

IDF raids Hezbollah Radwan Forces underground bases, discovers massive cache of weapons

Gallant: ‘After we strike in Iran,’ the world will understand all of our training

The Atlantic Hit Piece On Trump Is A Psy-Op To Justify Post-Election Violence If Harris Loses

Six Al Jazeera journalists are Hamas, PIJ terrorists

Judge Aileen Cannon, who tossed Trump's classified docs case, on list of proposed candidates for attorney general

Iran's Assassination Program in Europe: Europe Goes Back to Sleep

Susan Olsen says Brady Bunch revival was cancelled because she’s MAGA.

Foreign Invaders crisis cost $150B in 2023, forcing some areas to cut police and fire services: report

Israel kills head of Hezbollah Intelligence.


Status: Not Logged In; Sign In

Creationism/Evolution
See other Creationism/Evolution Articles

Title: A Crucial Archaeological Dating Tool Is Wrong, And It Could Change History as We Know It
Source: [None]
URL Source: https://www.sciencealert.com/radioc ... egion-calibration-inaccuracies
Published: Jun 6, 2018
Author: MIKE MCRAE
Post Date: 2018-06-06 21:41:38 by A K A Stone
Keywords: None
Views: 48511
Comments: 248

One of the most important dating tools used in archaeology may sometimes give misleading data, new study shows - and it could change whole historical timelines as a result.

The discrepancy is due to significant fluctuations in the amount of carbon- 14 in the atmosphere, and it could force scientists to rethink how A comparison of radiocarbon ages across the Northern Hemisphere suggests we might have been a little too hasty in assuming how the isotope - also known as radiocarbon - diffuses, potentially shaking up controversial conversations on the timing of events in history.

By measuring the amount of carbon-14 in the annual growth rings of trees grown in southern Jordan, researchers have found some dating calculations on events in the Middle East – or, more accurately, the Levant – could be out by nearly 20 years.

That may not seem like a huge deal, but in situations where a decade or two of discrepancy counts, radiocarbon dating could be misrepresenting important details.

The science behind the dating method is fairly straightforward: nitrogen atoms in the atmosphere hit with cosmic radiation are converted into a type of carbon with eight neutrons. This carbon – which has an atomic mass of 14 – has a chance of losing that neutron to turn into a garden variety carbon isotope over a predictable amount of time.

By comparing the two categories of carbon in organic remains, archaeologists can judge how recently the organism that left them last absorbed carbon-14 out of its environment.

Over millennia the level of carbon-14 in the atmosphere changes, meaning measurements need to be calibrated against a chart that takes the atmospheric concentration into account, such as INTCAL13.

The current version of INTCAL13 is based on historical data from North America and Europe, and has a fairly broad resolution over thousands of years. Levels do happen to spike on a local and seasonal basis with changes in the carbon cycle, but carbon-14 is presumed to diffuse fast enough to ignore these tiny bumps.

At least, that was the assumption until now.

"We know from atmospheric measurements over the last 50 years that radiocarbon levels vary through the year, and we also know that plants typically grow at different times in different parts of the Northern Hemisphere," says archaeologist Sturt Manning from Cornell University.

"So we wondered whether the radiocarbon levels relevant to dating organic material might also vary for different areas and whether this might affect archaeological dating."

The tree rings were samples of Jordanian juniper that grew in the southern region of the Middle East between 1610 and 1940 CE. By counting the tree rings, the team were able to create a reasonably accurate timeline of annual changes in carbon-14 uptake for those centuries.

Alarmingly, going by INTCAL13 alone, those same radiocarbon measurements would have provided dates that were older by an average of 19 years.

The difference most likely comes down to changes in regional climates, such as warming conditions. Extrapolating the findings back to earlier periods, archaeologists attempting to pinpoint Iron Age or Biblical events down to a few years would no doubt have a serious need to question their calibrations.

One controversial example is the dating of a single layer of archaeology at the Bronze and Iron Age city buried at Tel Rehov.

Just a few decades of difference could help resolve an ongoing debate over the extent of Solomon's biblical kingdom, making findings like these more than a minor quibble in a politically contested part of the world.

"Our work indicates that it's arguable their fundamental basis is faulty – they are using a calibration curve that is not accurate for this region," says Manning.

Collecting additional data from different geographical areas and taking a closer look at historical climate trends could help sharpen calibration techniques, especially in hotly debated regions.

For the time being, archaeologists covering history in the Levant are being advised to take their dates with a pinch of salt.

This research was published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.they use ancient organic remains to measure the passing of time.

www.pnas.org/content/early/2018/05/23/1719420115

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

Comments (1-64) not displayed.
      .
      .
      .

#65. To: Vicomte13, sneakypete (#55) (Edited)

"What about instances where mosquitoes are trapped in tree sap/amber?

I don't even know enough to guess. I'm just asking.

Couldn't the amber itself be Carbon Dated?

Where there is no oxygen, things may not break down. So it could be that these dinosaur soft tissues inside bones are simply the result of things being buried, encased in a certain way that deprived the tissues of some element vital for decay.

No doubt -- the more hermetically sealed the tissue, the more preserved.

MANY samples of viable dinosaur tissue material has been discovered (or rather "re-discovered"). Mary Schweitzer's accidental discovery is being replicated all over the world by many scientists. Similarly, Mummies thousands of years old have been found to have retained minute tissue material as well.

It really could be that, year, these animals (a dinosaur is, after all, just an animal) died much more recently. That would mean that the orthodoxy about all of the dinosaurs going extinct at a certain time would not be true...

THAT is THE ramification. It rocks the long-accepted orthodoxy of the age of dinosaurs. But it also moves the timeline way up....to something unfathomable, laughable even ten years ago -- that dinosaurs *might* have co-existed with man.

It's not as though the death of the dinosaurs is a matter of religious importance to anybody on the scientific side of the house - at least it SHOULDN'T be.

I shouldn't be an important factor in the Scientific Communitah but we know it can't help but be. Unfortunately like most institutions, "Science" has been corrupted by a political agenda.

We should make a couple of distinctions here; Evolution is both a theory AND "religion". Like all religions, it relies on faith. So yes, the timing of AND reason for the death of dinosaurs IS important. Why? Exactly because the dinosaur tissue discovery reinforces the Genesis timeline and erases a large portion of timeline required for "Evolution".

All many of us want is...the unadulterated truth of respective matters. We are tired of PTB hiding and masking political or scientific or historical truths/facts for agenda-sake.

Liberator  posted on  2018-06-09   11:47:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: A K A Stone, Vicomte13 (#57)

How were dinosaurs running around before Adam and Eve?

Was there death before sin?

Correct me if I'm wrong here, Vic...

It seems Vic is on record here as considering Genesis as high-minded, perhaps even divinely-inspired "poetry" and not the Word of God.

Ergo that would mean God's Timeline as narrated in Genesis (as well as "sin" and "death" not being in-effect until after Adam and Eve's Fall) would not be taken literally.

For what it's worth, Jesus Himself pretty heavily quoted Genesis.

Liberator  posted on  2018-06-09   11:57:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: Liberator (#43)

It is impossible for blood cells to survive "millions" of years, never mind several thousands.

That's a speculative comment and cannot be proven. It's in fact a statement of a negative claim, that something is not possible, which they used to say about heavier-than-air machines flying.

There are plenty of instances throughout scientific history where something that was believed impossible was later found to be possible via mechanisms that were not known or understood.

Pinguinite  posted on  2018-06-09   12:07:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: Liberator (#44)

Q: When a secretary types/writes her boss's words, *who* is responsible for the transposed content/authorship, Pete?

Obviously the person dictating the message. But in the case of the Bible, what evidence is there that God did the dictating?

"Every Scripture is God-breathed and profitable for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness," ~ 2 Timothy 3:16

So the Bible is the "Word of God" because the Bible says it's the "Word of God"? That's circular evidence. If I wrote a story about God and included a passage where God claimed I was writing for him, would it make my story into a certified message from God?

Some claim the Bible's validation of historical evidence is proof of divinity. But would that make an old newspaper report about the Titanic sinking the "Word of God"? There's a difference between accuracy and divinity.

Pinguinite  posted on  2018-06-09   12:16:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: Pinguinite (#67)

"It is impossible for blood cells to survive 'millions' of years, never mind several thousands."

That's a speculative comment and cannot be proven. It's in fact a statement of a negative claim, that something is not possible, which they used to say about heavier-than-air machines flying.

I agree. My comment/assertion IS speculation because *I* cannot prove it. I can only project a very high likelihood. No, I can't "prove" certain things are "impossible" -- also true. But some things ARE impossible. The corollary that "NOTHING-IS-IMPOSSIBLE" can't be true. For instance, 0+0 /= 1+

That said, I think we can agree that there are such things as degrees of "probability/impossibility".

If so, might there not be such things as "extremely high probability" upon scrutinizing indisputably proven facts? (unless we again run into the snag of defining "indisputable" because according to the Science-Communitah, "Evolution" is/was "indisputable", as is/was the age of the planet, the earth, and "Global Warming".)

One fact with respect to "flying machines" is that at least the mechanics could be observed as to how creatures and objects do fly. So that analogy and degree of asserted "impossibility" may have been a matter of figuring out how to fly -- NOT imagining so.

There are plenty of instances throughout scientific history where something that was believed impossible was later found to be possible via mechanisms that were not known or understood.

I hear ya. Many many things. Fact.

But when physics are involved, *some* things ARE "impossible". Hard mathematics doesn't lie; And sometimes Point "A" really *does* connect to Point "B".

Liberator  posted on  2018-06-09   12:29:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: Liberator (#52)

That "aspect of the subject" and "logic" lead straight to only one conclusion: The Great Flood was likely way it all went down in Genesis...and...occurred only several *thousands* of years ago.

There's speculation that the story of the "great flood" may have originated with the flooding of the Black Sea by a failed land bridge that separated it from the Mediterranean Sea, which seems occurred within time frame of ancient civilization.

www.novinite.com/articles...enced+Deluge+-+Scientists

Such a cataclismic event could well have been the story that was ancestral to the Biblical account. People do have a way of inventing explanations for things they do not understand, and the less they understand things, the more likely they are to chalk it up to the will of a divine entity. And the ancients understood very little about the world.

It's noted that dinosaurs, historically referred to in several ancient civilization texts as "great lizards" and "dragons" (also depicted in ancient paintings in both the Old and New World) indeed existed *at the same time as man*.

Whether they were in fact referring to what we now call dinosaurs is speculation. Could they not have been referring to present day alligators & Komoto dragons and such?

Pinguinite  posted on  2018-06-09   12:31:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: sneakypete (#59)

They didn't. As has been mentioned here,there is no shortage of crocodiles,alligators,or lizards.

All of which are, essentially, dinosaurs.

Pinguinite  posted on  2018-06-09   12:35:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: Liberator (#65)

It really could be that, year, these animals (a dinosaur is, after all, just an animal) died much more recently. That would mean that the orthodoxy about all of the dinosaurs going extinct at a certain time would not be true...

More accurately, if carbon-14 dating were to be recalibrated or revised in such a way as to show dinosaurs bones being much, much younger than it currently does, then that evidence would still need to be corroborated with other evidence showing they are the present age. The age of the dinosaur fossils is generally based on geological dating methods, and any carbon-14 revisions would not mean that a fossil encased in hardened stone dated by other methods to be millions of years to be automatically redated to a few thousand. In that example, if carbon-14 said such a bone was 5000 years old, but the geologic dating method said the stone was 70 million years old, the next task would be to find out which was right and which was wrong.

Science is always in flux, by it's very nature.

And just because new/revised carbon-14 understanding might make us change what we now believe about it would NOT mean that those revised understandings would then be firm science. Next year someone might come out and say, "Hey, when we said we were wrong about carbon-14 and decided dinosaur bones were just a few thousand years old, we were actually wrong about what we thought we were wrong about because of xyz, and so those bones are still likely to be much older than 50k years. Sorry for the confusion".

Pinguinite  posted on  2018-06-09   12:50:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: Pinguinite (#68) (Edited)

Q: When a secretary types/writes her boss's words, *who* is responsible for the transposed content/authorship, Pete?

Obviously the person dictating the message. But in the case of the Bible, what evidence is there that God did the dictating?

Those prophets and messengers who did the "dictating" themselves revealed it was God who was the author of their writings.

Scripture is a "self-revelation" of God. The evidence? The spoken and written words of the prophets (divinely inspired) which were God's own account, His creation, angels, signs/wonders/miracles.

There are also NO lies to be found in either the OT or NT.

You might say the "evidence" and "proof" of The Almighty's authorship-through-man as well as authorship of His Creation is highly circumstantial. Does that mean it's "highly convincing"? Obviously not. Some will and faith is obviously involved.

So the Bible is the "Word of God" because the Bible says it's the "Word of God"? That's circular evidence. If I wrote a story about God and included a passage where God claimed I was writing for him, would it make my story into a certified message from God?

In other words, could YOU be chosen as an envoy, a "prophet" of God? Why not? Many Pastors minister the Word and truth every Sunday. Of course the words and messages of all Pastors and Ministers are examined and scrutinized in discernment as not the be led astray.

Some claim the Bible's validation of historical evidence is proof of divinity. But would that make an old newspaper report about the Titanic sinking the "Word of God"? There's a difference between accuracy and divinity.

I agree.

That's why discernment of truth and word is crucial and why many who supposedly "teach the word" have been called "false prophets" (i.e. certain televangelists and Popes.)

Liberator  posted on  2018-06-09   12:53:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: Liberator (#66)

It seems Vic is on record here as considering Genesis as high-minded, perhaps even divinely-inspired "poetry" and not the Word of God.

Poetry was my term, not Vic's, though he's free to agree with me, of course.

Ergo that would mean God's Timeline as narrated in Genesis (as well as "sin" and "death" not being in-effect until after Adam and Eve's Fall) would not be taken literally.

Though it's a claim that the Genesis timeline is "God's Timeline" as opposed to a timeline of man that is purported to be God's.

If I were to nitpick about death existing before sin, the human body experiences cell death as a normal function of healthy human living. Hair, for example is dead tissue. If no death existed before sin, would this mean that before the fall, Adam and Eve either had no hair, or if they did, it was living tissue?

Pinguinite  posted on  2018-06-09   12:56:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: Liberator, A K A Stone, Pinguinite (#66)

I have seen the messages and am thinking about my response. Religious passions are inflamed here, and I have a different viewpoint than all three of you so, given that this is not an area of passion for me, I have to think through the degree to which I'm willing to endure the inevitable hectoring when I say something contrary to somebody else's belief system.

Given how unimportant the whole topic is in the big scheme of things (from my perspective), what is much more important to me is the degree to which I want to wade into a street fight over it.

I think that I probably will, but I will have to very carefully craft my response.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-06-09   14:27:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: Pinguinite, A K A Stone, Liberator (#74)

To even have the discussion, we'd have to go through the definitions of God, life, spirit, sin, death and inspiration. That's just for starters.

And because what I think departs from various orthodoxies on each point, I get a lot of abuse when I write on religion. When I speak of my own direct experiences with God, I get ridicule and scorn, that continues on afterwards.

Essentially, I don't believe in the traditional Christian religion, or any other religion, and I don't believe in "Science", practiced as a modern religion either. The factual and logical errors of each are obvious to me, and they rule out belief. I have talked with God many times, and experienced major miracles, so I know that God is as a matter of empirical fact, such that I have to always include the reality of God in all scientific analysis or I cease to be a real scientist.

Unlike many, I do not denigrate the ancient texts, and I think they were inspired by God. But I don't think "inspired" means what traditionalists think it means.

Who really wants to know what I believe? Probably nobody, really. What you want is the opportunity to draw me into a discussion of religion, so you can hector me about the things you believe that I don't. What good is that?

Honestly, what is the point? There is nothing more useless in this world than another man's religion. Yours are useless to me, and my own is useless to you. So why argue about it? If you really want to know my religious beliefs, we can take it to another thread and discuss it there. I certainly don't care what you believe, in precisely the same way I don't care what sex turns you on. Your religion is of no interest or use to me. I'm pretty sure the same is true in the other direction. If I'm wrong and you really, truly want to know what I believe and why, then start a thread with that as the topic, and I will go there and tell you. I'm not holding my breath. Nobody cares. Why would they?

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-06-09   18:04:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: Vicomte13 (#76)

Essentially, I don't believe in the traditional Christian religion

Ok. That is all I need to know. You don't claim to be a follower of Christ or a Christian as it is called.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-06-09   18:39:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: A K A Stone (#77)

You simply cannot get the truth straight. I follow Christ. I do not follow him in the way that you do. I do not believe in the same hierarchy of authorities that you do. I do not have the same religion you do. I follow Christ.

You follow Christ in a different way. And the way you do it looks to my eyes a lot like not following Christ at all.

Your way is just A way. It is not THE way. Even in traditional Christianity, your way is a fringe element.

The way I follow Christ is adequately respectful of a certain set of norms for me to not be thrown out of the Catholic Church. My actual beliefs about many things differ somewhat from Catholicism, but that doesn't matter to the rest of Catholics.

To follow Christ, in my estimation, means to carefully read exactly what he said, to figure out what he meant by it, and then to do what he said. That is what it means: it means to keep his commandments. It does NOT mean to elevate a book to the status of God. It does NOT mean to insist on some faith alone versus works doctrine. It does NOT mean asserting all sorts of thing about a Trinity that Christ never taught. It doesn't even mean WORSHIPPING Christ. It means doing what Jesus said. Full stop. That's "following Christ". Whatever else you want to add to it is your religion. Catholics add a lot. I smile at it, perhaps genuflect to it, but don't confuse it with following Christ.

The thing that strikes me most about your particular religion is that you DON'T follow Christ. You assert a bunch of things that are the opposite of Christ, but you very much worship that book of yours.

And you just can't bear to speak directly to what I say. You always have to add a lie to it, to assert some additional thing I did not say and don't believe. You are not able to directly address the things I say. You always erect a straw man alongside it and hit that. Which means that you write vexatious things, but you're not really talking to ME at all, you're attacking a dummy that you've set up and CALLED me, but that isn't actually what I said or believe.

To me, it's really quite dishonest of you to do this, but you love to call ME the liar. It's striking, really, how far off the path that Christ laid out that you are. That's your religion, and your religion does not to my eyes appear to be about following Christ. It's about setting up a dummy of Christ who is not very much like Christ, and then worshipping the dummy instead of listening to and following the man.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-06-09   20:10:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: Vicomte13 (#78)

You're confusing. First you say your not a Christian. Then you say you are.

There is only one path and that is the path laid out on the Bible, which you don't believe you said so.

So you have your own custom religion. Let's call it viclizardo. You are a viclizardian.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-06-09   21:06:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: Vicomte13 (#78)

The thing that strikes me most about your particular religion is that you DON'T follow Christ

Says the man who prays to a dead sinner. And ignores scripture and follows the tradition of a man (men)that has stolen Gods title of "holy father". MY shortcomings doesn't excuse your ignoring the plain teachings of the scriptures. Or your blasphemous words saying the bible isn't the whole word of I'd without error.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-06-09   22:10:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: Vicomte13 (#78)

follow Christ, in my estimation, means to carefully read exactly what he said, to figure out what he meant by it, and then to do what he said. That is what it means: it means to keep his commandments. It does NOT mean to elevate a book to the status of God.

The first part of what you said is correct. However you are an idiot because the Bible says that the word of God was revealed to us in the Bible and that it is all from God and profitable for study and implementation. You're also delusional with the lizard bulshit talk everybody on the form thinks you're an idiot for it. Not one person buys that b******* probably not even your kids., Maybe you're mentally ill and actually believe that.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-06-09   22:15:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: A K A Stone (#79)

There is only one path and that is the path laid out on the Bible,

That is your religion and your belief. We do not have the same religion, and do not believe the same things.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-06-10   8:00:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: A K A Stone (#80)

MY shortcomings doesn't excuse your ignoring the plain teachings of the scriptures.

I don't. I simply do not believe that the Scriptures are the final authority or revelation to mankind. The part of the Scriptures that matters is what Jesus said.

The bible is not the complete word of God and is not without error. It never says that it is complete or without error. Your religion has made that up, and you believe it. That is called idolatry. Your view of the Bible turns it into an idol.

My primary problem with you is that you profess Christ but you totally ignore him with regards to the poor. My secondary problem is the whole self-rightoeusness business.

You can believe as you believe.

God pulled me out of a lake and raised two animals from the dead in my presence, and talks to me sometimes. I'm sticking with him.

You don't offer anything true, just superstition, idolatry, harsh politics and anger.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-06-10   8:12:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: Vicomte13 (#83)

Jesus quoted Genesis and the old testament. He said all scripture is profitable. You reject most scripture. You ignore hundreds of things in scripture redleg has shown you.

I don't give a shit what you believe. I'm just trying to understand why someone who claims to follow chriist dismisses what Christ said and dismisses what Christ said is profitable for you to know.

You got bumped on the head and now you're brain damaged. Go tell some judge you appear for your delusion and see if they don't disbar your brain damaged ass.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-06-10   8:17:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: Vicomte13 (#83)

You don't offer anything true, just superstition, idolatry, harsh politics and anger.

Look asshole the Catholic Church is full of idoltry. You pray to a dead sinner. Your fake so called church where you worship a faggot loving pope now has removed the second commandment on idoltry. Ok asshole.

Hey why don't you go give your shit to the poor dickwad. Also quit misrepresenting me you liar.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-06-10   8:20:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: Vicomte13 (#83)

God pulled me out of a lake and raised two animals from the dead in my presence, and talks to me sometimes. I'm sticking with him.

No he didn't brain damaged Vic. Even your wife doesn't believe that fairy tale. Quit repeating it in public before you end up in a mental institution.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-06-10   8:22:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: Vicomte13 (#83)

My primary problem with you is that you profess Christ but you totally ignore him with regards to the poor

You're a frickin idiot and lying again. Ignoring scripture and just being a general asshole.

The conversation could have went different but you cchose to lie and insult from the beginning.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-06-10   8:24:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: A K A Stone (#81)

You're also delusional with the lizard bulshit talk everybody on the form thinks you're an idiot for it. Not one person buys that b******* probably not even your kids.

The problem you have is that you are raging like a Pharisee at actual miracles.

I know God exists because he pulled me out of a lake, raised two dead animals in my presence, and talks to me sometimes. That's the basis for my religion: direct personal experience with God.

Your purple-faced rage and accusation regarding these things is the voice of a jealous man. You do all of the things your idolatry requires, but God doesn't talk to you. And here's a guy who does not have your religion, and God heals him, shows him miracles, and talks to him.

It is outrageous, to you. It makes perfect sense, of course: I'm listening to God, and you're listening to men. Why me? Apparently God loves me. Why not you? Because you have set up a religion of false hoops and idols, and God isn't going to reward you for it by jumping through hoops.

I have no doubt at all that "everybody" on this forum thinks I'm an idiot for talking about the miracles I have experienced. That's your problem, isn't it? Because those things I have said are true. Rage away. You sound like a Pharisee to me. I have told the truth. That's why I believe in God. It is no skin off my nose that you don't believe it or think I'm an idiot. I know I am incredibly blessed. I also why these things have never happened to you - God isn't like how you believe him to be. Why would he reward false faith like yours? He hasn't. He doesn't. He's not going to.

I was always prepared to take God as he is. You have set preconditions upon him. He rejects them, so you sit alone with your book and your fellow ranters. You laugh at me, but I have the greater prize, so your laughter sounds like the mosque to me.

Your religion is a proselytizing idolatry: you need people to agree to buy your bullshit. But my religion is a personal relationship with God, who has shown me his power. I am writing because of that power, that's why I am alive. I am not urging you to join my religion. I haven't offered one. I've told you to open the gospels and read Jesus, and do what he said. Him. Not him and Paul and Peter and pastor Bob. That means care for the poor. It also means not calling people idiots.

Your rage is misplaced.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-06-10   8:24:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: Vicomte13 (#83)

Hey Brain damaged liar tell me my idoltry and superstition. This should be rich coming from a man who believes the faggot loving poop and rejects John, James, Ruth, Peter etc.

You're a cult member. I will pray you leave the cult and your brain damaged is healed.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-06-10   8:26:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: Vicomte13 (#88)

The problem you have is that you are raging like a Pharisee at actual miracles.

No you are delusional. Go tell your colleagues your delusion.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-06-10   8:28:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: Vicomte13 (#88)

know God exists because he pulled me out of a lake, raised two dead animals in my presence, and talks to me sometimes. That's the basis for my religion: direct personal experience with God.

The basis for faith in God comes from hearing the word. Which you said you ignore what about ninert five percent of scripture. Not bumping your head and having a dream.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-06-10   8:30:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: Vicomte13 (#88)

was always prepared to take God as he is. You have set preconditions upon him. He rejects them, so you sit alone with your book and your fellow ranters. You laugh at me, but I have the greater prize, so your laughter sounds like the mosque to me.

Liar. You ignore scripture and pray to Mary. Where did Jesus say to pray for a sinner. He didnt.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-06-10   8:31:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: Vicomte13 (#88)

I am not urging you to join my religion

Scripture says to go out and spread the word. Another thing you don't do correctly.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-06-10   8:33:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: Vicomte13 (#88)

Your rage is misplaced.

You calling me a liar and the other lies you said do anger me. I don't like being lied about.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-06-10   8:34:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: Vicomte13 (#88)

It is outrageous, to you. It makes perfect sense, of course: I'm listening to God, and you're listening to men

Project much?

You listen to an old man who calls himself gods title of holy father. Who has so much wealth horded. You pray to a dead sinner who never heard one syllable of your so called prayers.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-06-10   8:37:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#96. To: Vicomte13 (#88)

jealous man. You do all of the things your idolatry requires, but God doesn't talk to you. And here's a guy who does not have your religion, and God heals him, shows him miracles, and talks to him.

You need help. Go see someone about your brain damaged. Have your head scanned.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-06-10   8:38:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: Vicomte13 (#88)

You laugh at me, but I have the greater prize,

Elaborate head case.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-06-10   8:43:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: Vicomte13 (#88)

Hey asshole you said god doesn't heal anyone. Then you say he heals you. Which is it you hypocrite asshole? You said the below deceiver. Why are you such a prick liar? Or are you just brain damaged and cannot see the hypocrisy and ollogic in your bizarre statement. You won't address this because your a litttle worm puss of a person.

Christ does not treat Chrsitans' diabetes or cancer. He let's them bear that cross, die, and come to him.

Similarly for starvation. Christ lets hundreds of millions of Christans starve to death. They bear their cross to the end and have their reward in the next life.

Christ never promised health and happiness in this life - in fact, he promised that those things won't be found here.

So you're right - I have absolutely no belief at all that Christ will reach down from heaven and protect Christians from any diseases, or marauding enemies, or starvation, or natural disaster - because he DOESN'T protect us from any of things, and never said he would. Our reward for staying true to him is found on the other side, in the afterlife, not HERE.

If you have diabetes here, praying to Christ will keep you faithful to him to the end and win you the afterlife, but you're still going to lose your foot in THIS life, because Christ isn't going to lift a finger to protect you from the natural law, or from the marauding of other men. You have to help yourself in this life - Christ holds out the promise of happiness in the afterlife if, in the process of helping yourself in this one you don't do great evil, and you remember him and try to do what he said. That's the deal.

That Christ substitutes for human government in this life is impiety. It is ignoring what he really said, and adding nonsense to it that he never said.

Christ will not govern your country. He won't save you from malaria, or hurricanes, or earthquakes, or Nazis. He will have compassion on you, and receive your soul when they kill you, but he won't stop them from killing you, he won't drive off your diseases if you drink contaminated water, and he won't make hurricane Irma spare your life. He might on a one-off basis, but Christians at large get no pass, at all, from natural law.

Christ's deal is not about here.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-06-10   9:04:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#99. To: A K A Stone (#98)

You have a terrible reading comprehension problem, and a terrible anger management problem.

You read your book to tell you to go out proselytizing. The litany above is a classic example of this in action. It's why your religion is dying, and why God doesn't talk to you.

The day will come that you die and have a life review. This will be part of it. You will be abashed, because at that moment you will realize that I was always telling you the truth.

I would tell you truly that you represent God very badly.

What could you learn from me? Primarily, care about the poor. Care about the weak. Not hate people for thinking differently from you, as long as they aren't oppressing and killing people.

Once upon a time, your approach to religion ruled the day. The Catholic Church tortured and executed "heretics" and "witches". A messenger of God, Joan of Arc, was tried and burnt alive by the Catholic Church.

The Lutherans burnt 50,000 witches. The Anglicans killed recusants and Catholics. The Presbyterians waged violent war on all who thought differently, and burnt 20,000 witches in a tiny little country. The Baptists upheld slavery, oppressed millions of blacks, and upheld racial segregation based on their read of the Bible.

What a bunch of evil lunacy! All of it.

I'll stick with the God who pulled me out of the lake and raised that mouse and that lizard from the dead, who flew the dove into my face to drive off the demon, and whose son embraced me. That's God.

Your presentation of that God is horrific. Who could possibly be persuaded to follow your religion, based on rage and taunt? People just like you. Which is why your church has acted that way over history. Which is why people like me won't follow it now, and have stripped away all of its political power, and fenced it off, far, far away from the levers of political or judicial power.

You do what you do. Part of that is rail at me. Your jealousy is palpable. Anyway, nothing to be done about it now. When you die, you will see. Then you'll finally get to know him. He's better than you make him out to be.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-06-10   12:11:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#100. To: Vicomte13 (#99)

F*** you ass wipe.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-06-10   13:17:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#101. To: Vicomte13 (#99)

You still never answered why God heals you but no one else did you ass wipe hypocrite.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-06-10   13:19:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#102. To: A K A Stone (#100)

F*** you ass wipe.

What a nice Christian thing to say.

Have you renewed your moderator license lately?

Fred Mertz  posted on  2018-06-10   13:23:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#103. To: Fred Mertz (#102)

The asshole started attack8ng me from the start of the thread.

What do you think of his delusional raising of mice and lizards from the dead. Head case.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-06-10   13:25:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#104. To: A K A Stone (#103)

If you say so. I avoid religion discussion threads for the most part. I haven't been to church/Mass in several months.

Will I burn in Hades?

Fred Mertz  posted on  2018-06-10   15:58:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



      .
      .
      .

Comments (105 - 248) not displayed.

TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Mail]  [Sign-in]  [Setup]  [Help]  [Register] 

Please report web page problems, questions and comments to webmaster@libertysflame.com