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Title: FBI Agent Accidentally Discharges Firearm
Source:
Fox News
URL Source: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/06/0 ... ncing-at-denver-nightclub.html
Published: Jun 3, 2018
Author: Katherine Lam
Post Date: 2018-06-03 11:57:31 by misterwhite
Keywords: None
Views: 16397
Comments: 109
An off-duty FBI agent accidentally fired his gun, striking another patron in the leg, at a Denver nightclub while he was dancing early Saturday, police said. (Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
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Sookie, Sookie, Sookie, Sookie, Sookie, Sookie, BLAM. Bet it was a Glock.
Lawsuit time. It seems from the video that the gun fell out and went off when he picked it up to put it back in his holster. He was trying to a backflip for the crowd. He's kinda old to do backflips so it wasn't perfect but it was pretty good for a big man. Usually big guys have problems wrapping their height and mass fast enough to do any kind of backflip.
Nothing in the article about the parasite being taken into custody, fingerprinted and photographed before being let go with no charges. Hmmmmm... some pigs are more equal than others.
He pulled the trigger. Was he drug & alcohol tested, and cavity searched on the spot? Did the victim refuse to become an FBI snitch?
He was likely boozed up while mishandling his weapon. At least he wasn't driving. Heaven forbid!
Light trigger.
I get the feeling you're not shopping for a Glock. Just a hunch...
Not for concealed carry with one in the chamber, no safety, and a 5-pound trigger. You can shoot your eye out. I'll settle for my S&W 642 with no safety but a 12-pound trigger (DA only). Leave the Glock in the bedside table drawer where you have time to rack a round.
What was that gesture with the hands at the end? Oops? My bad? Shit happens?
I tend toward this with my Glock but others here tell me the pistol is considered unloaded unless it has a shell in the chamber at all times.
He just kind of walked away. Apparently it took a minute or two before people realized the guy had got shot in the leg. I read a report that the victim was a friend or acquaintance of the FBI rootin'-tootin' dancer but can't substantiate that it was friendly fire. Then they found the victim, called the ambulance, the cops came and evacuated the bar, now the bar says they're going to install metal detectors. I think the agent was drinking. The dancing just looked wrong. His rhythm was off, movements a little disjointed and awkward, etc. Like he was trying to recall what it was like when he was younger, sober, lithe, and a better dancer.
They're correct. It's a paperweight. But it's safe. You'll have plenty of time to "load" it if it is for self-defense in the home, given that all you have to do is pull the slide and release it. Who knows, the sound of you doing that may scare the intruder away.
Reminded me of Elaine:
That's harsh, dude. He wasn't as horrible as Elaine and her full-body heaves.
This vid reminded me of an old favorite. It always makes me laugh.
Thanks for the ping. I've seen it before and again. The kids freaked out when he grabbed a rifle, so I guess it is funny.
THAT'S THE HILARIOUS PART! "No, put it down, put it down!" LOL
A classic video to show why all these people keep telling us not to carry without a round in the chamber. This storeowner got himself and his son killed while trying to just get a round into the chamber.
I agree. Always have one on the chamber. But it's dangerous with a light trigger and no external safety. For a semi-auto concealed carry, the best solution is a DA/SA weapon where the first shot requires 10-12 pounds. Another problem I've seen are with the push button locking style holsters for open carry to keep the gun secure. The user presses the button on the holster to release the firearm. But some users keep pressing, their finger slips into the trigger guard, and the gun fires. Happened to this guy:
I get your point but I think he had cleared the holster by several inches when he ventilated his leg. Maybe sneaky has an opinion. So hard to have 100.000000% safety and keep that itchy finger from slipping to its natural position over the trigger, even with very experienced shooters. Here's your video with the link corrected so pete can see it.
In another video he admitted his finger slipped into the trigger guard after pressing the holster release button. So picture the gun clearing the holster, his finger gliding on the holster then entering the trigger guard, then pressing the trigger. The gun was (obviously) still pointing downward and had just cleared the holster.
I read another story where the bad guy was dragging the woman along by one arm. She got her weapon out but was unable to operate the slide to put one in the chamber. Paperweight.
At some point, I'll probably weaken and reconsider my habit of not keeping a bullet in the chamber in my bedroom gun. Some years back, my niece dropped by with her very busy and very snoopy toddlers. They got into everything, every closet, every drawer, etc. Regular pint-sized terrorists. After that, I worried about having a bullet in the chamber in that situation. Some kids aren't trained to never touch the guns. Anyway, hers weren't AFAIK.
A hunting friend of mine and gun enthusiast wears his .45 on his hip with the weapon cocked and safety on. Who am I to question him about that? Mine is a revolver which is four feet from me right now. I don't carry. It is in a holster which might make me one second slow on the draw. I don't worry about those things.
When the grandkids come over, I lock everything up in the gun safe. On orders from the wife. They know better not to snoop. If they do and shoot themselves … well, their fault. That how I feel, but that doesn't count.
I have a Glock. No safety. If it had a safety, I would definitely keep one in the chamber. There are days when I seriously consider getting rid of the Glock and buying a good wheel gun instead. It probably fits my skill level better and I'd feel safer overall. But America is in love with the semi-auto pistols with the large magazines and so I bought one. I should have thought it through better.
Sensible wife. I wouldn't share that opinion with the wife. : )
Never. But if we were on the Newlywed Game that's what she'd write down. She knows me.
My opinion is I have no sympathy for anyone that shoots himself while carrying a Glock or similar pistol. Seems to me to be inevitable,providing they don't accidentally shoot someone else first by accident and get it taken away. I will never carry a striker fired weapon,period. If you give me one I will sell it. These days I almost always carry a revolver. A 9 shot 22 snubnose pocket pistol for messing around in the yard or walking to the shop in case I stumble upon a rabid animal or poisonous snake,and a DAO Rossi 44 Special with a 3 inch barrel for social work if I go to a city. It only holds 5 rounds which makes some people think I am nuts,but if I have to shoot it more than 5 times chances are there are going to be a couple of other guns laying around with nobody using them that I can pick up.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
One word,"revolver". Never any question of "is it loaded or not?",and the DA trigger pull on the typical revolver is stout enough you aren't going to fire it accidentially. BTW,for those of you unfamiliar with revolvers,it is possible for a good gunsmith to do a action job on it that makes the DA trigger pull "smooth as butta",but still require enough trigger pressure to fire that that is no danger of having an accidental discharge. No,it's not cheap,but chances are you will only have it done to the revolver you carry,and the knowledge that you don't have to walk around and face a potential bad guy with a cocked revolver with the hair trigger they have is worth the money. My Rossi is DAO,and I have shot running snakes in the head with it,and I don't care how tough you think you are,a single 200 grain 44 caliber hollowpoint in your head will give a a LONG time-out. Remember,when getting a action job,the keyword is "SMOOTH",not "light". Do it right and you WILL have to modify the hammer spring to keep from penetrating primers,but that's when you know that everything is working perfectly.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
If it is a 1911 style Colt or other Single Action semi-auto,that is perfectly safe to carry that way because it is the way it was designed to be carried. I have 3 or 4 of them,and even though I switched to the 44 Special revolver a decade or so ago,I carried cocked and locked 45 ACP semi-autos most of my life and in more than one country. Probably the most reliable and safe semi-auto handgun design ever put into production,I still think the US military lost their freaking minds when they dropped it for 9mm Beretta's. Besides the thumb safety,it also has a grip safety that must be squeezed before the hammer will fall.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
That's what it is. Also, one other safety feature is if the weapon is against something with the muzzle it won't fire. I have this recollection from way back when. About three safety features.
You should listen to your inner-voice on one of those days. If it is for self-defense,forget Magnums. When it comes to calibers,think "heavy,slow,and if possible,with a flat nose and swagged. Or mo betta,a swagged hollow-based wadcutter mounted backwards. Not accurate worth a damn beyond self-defense range,but oh,BOY do they work good at stopping an attacker. Also think,"44 or 45 caliber" and velocities in the range of 700-800 fps. The idea is to shoot BIG,HEAVY bullets into your attacker and have them expend ALL of their energy inside his body. Milder loads like this also have the advantage of not kicking so hard,so it is easy to get back on target if you need a second shot. Even 38 Specials with 140-160 grain hollowbase SWAGGED wadcutters will do the job at those velocities. If it were me and I lived in the great frozen north,I would have two sets of self-defense loads. One set for warm weather as described above,and another set of factory +P jacketed hollowpoint loads for winter use,when your opponent is wearing layers of clothing or even a leather coat. Unless of course you feel confident enough in your abilities and demeanor to go for head shots. If you can put a bullet through his eyeball,it really doesn't matter how big it is or how fast it's moving.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
Yup! A "out of battery" trigger interrupt to keep it from firing is also a part of the design.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
Glocks don’t fire from being dropped. The douche nozzle fingered the trigger trying to scoop it up, off the floor, in a hurry, from embarrassment. He violated one of the four basic firearm safety rules. Keep your fucking finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire.
I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح
Glocks don’t accidentally discharge on their own. If you follow the four basic firearm safety rules at all times, you’ll have no problems keeping the mag stuffed and “one up”.
I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح
Correct. But they do fire when a douche nozzle fingers the trigger trying to scoop it up off the floor and there is one in the chamber, no safety and the trigger has a 5-pound pull. An accident waiting to happen.
This guy was a trained FBI agent with who knows how many hours of periodic classroom and range safety training. Yet he carried unholstered in the small of his back -- two big no-no's. Three, if it was a Glock. Yet he didn't follow the rules. Match the gun to the person.
It was an odd choice really. And that isn't the small of the back. It's a gun jammed in your asscrack. Ew. That's gross. It's a shame he didn't shoot himself instead of some poor bystander. And just walking away like nothing had happened after he had just discharged the gun and had no idea if someone was injured by it? The FBI should fire him for that alone. Complete recklessness with a firearm. He really should have been arrested IMO. Reckless endangerment charges, maybe more depending on CO statutes.
He was very lucky someone wasn't killed in that crowded room.
Just a 5-pound pull away from going from an ass crack to an ass chasm.
‹/rimshot› LOL
Another report from CBS, this one has another camera angle and you can see that the gun went off as he picked it up. In another camera angle, you see him throw his hands up as he's walking away and he almost grinned! And Langley spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to train this nimrod? No mention that he was arrested but the video states that the police took a blood sample for testing.
He learned his disco moves at Quantico. Langley is CIA.
I thought it looked wrong, didn't bother to look it up. I'll blame it on the U.N. celebrating World Environment Day today. Yup, that's it.
I held my tongue, but good job hondopehead. My brother is a product of Quantico on the jar-head side. I've been there. A friend worked at Langley and took me on an office visit on a Saturday. He hated having to lie to family and friends that he worked for the State Department. He was a desk jockey analyst. His son will be married in October - I was there when he was born in Virginia.
5.5 pounds.
I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح
I agree. He’d had been charged if he worked for my old department or the current place I work out of.
I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح
Did you two notice how he tucked his ass-gun back into his butt-crack? He was wearing no belt which contributed to him dropping the gun to start with because his pants slid down low on his hips when he flipped. Then when he tried to put the gun back in, he only put it into his waistband down to (but not including) the trigger guard! Two-thirds of the gun and most of its weight was just floating loose above his waistband. And his shirt was untucked. He's lucky he didn't drop it again as he walked away. With an untucked shirt, it would drop on the floor again unless he was fast enough to catch it. Gee, Sherlock, no need to hide the gun now after you already shot somebody. And did you notice that no one has given out his name yet? What, are the FBI some protected class or something? Anyone else in America (including regular cops or soldiers) would have their names splashed all over the internet. But this guy? Apparently the FBI are too special to get named.
I hope the hot barrel burned his ass.
He was wearing no belt I stopped watching after I identified what caused the AD. Watching stupid shit by cops, isn’t on my list for entertainment... unless it’s part of department training.
I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح
I just looked again. Is there some kind of mini-holster there on the waistband? It looks like something is there but I can't tell if it is a cellphone holder or mini-holster or something else. Whatever it is, it is doesn't look big enough to hold that gun securely. I think it might be just a cellphone case. Maybe your eyes are better than mine or you know more about back-holsters.
I suspect this FBI agent is about to become the star in some upcoming police training films. Just a hunch. : )
I would think he was wearing some kind of hybrid, IWB holster. They are designed for concealment, and all hybrid holsters have ZERO weapon retention. All the ones I own, if you put the gun in it and turn it upside down, the gun will fall out (tho wearing them, inside your pant waistband, under a belt, does improve weapon retention).
I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح
It sounds reckless. I always think of PD detectives and FBI with shoulder harness or a side holster or a front-holster where the gun is a lot more secure.
You can clearly see in the vid that he's wearing a dark brown belt on his light tan pants. Look again at your vid. The tan belt loops across the brown belt are very visible.
There's something back there. It could be an inside-the-waistband holster with the top sticking out.
What happened Pete ? I thought you carried a Charter Arms of same caliber and configuration . What caused the change ?
Si vis pacem, para bellum Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God. Never Pick A Fight With An Old Man He Will Just Shoot You He Can't Afford To Get Hurt "If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." (Will Rogers) AMERICA! Designed by geniuses. Now run by idiots.
I understand the Charter Arms are built better these days,but back in the 70's they were junk if you planned on shooting them much. I put 4 or 5 boxes of factory level 44 Special loads through mine,and it was already starting to look like it was going to have indexing/timing problems,so I sold it. The Rossi is a whole nother animal,though. If I was 30 I doubt I would ever live long enough to shoot it loose using factory equivalent loads. Plus it is insanely accurate with Winchester 200 grain Silvertip hollowpoints. Rossi is no longer in business,though. Taurus bought them out because they couldn't stand the competition,and ceased production of the 44 Special Rossi. It was smaller and build better than the Taurus 44 Special,so it had to be killed. Look around for a good used one at gun shows,though. Since I know I can't buy another new one,I literally wouldn't sell mine for a thousand bucks in cash.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
Interesting. I am not in the market for such a toy, but if I ever decide to do so, I will keep your advice in mind. I was just curious, as I remember you talking about the charter arms before. Thanks
Si vis pacem, para bellum Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God. Never Pick A Fight With An Old Man He Will Just Shoot You He Can't Afford To Get Hurt "If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." (Will Rogers) AMERICA! Designed by geniuses. Now run by idiots.
BTW,I bought my Rossi,the DAO model with no trigger spur in stainless steel new in the box from a gun shop for $229. Good luck finding even a used one for that kind of money now. Small enough to fit in a standard pants pocket,and no sharp edges to interfere with a draw. Only downside is they are heavy,but heavy is good if you ever want to use stout loads,and even better if just using standard pressure loads because you will never shoot it loose. Besides,other than the rubber grips,it's all steel,so it's supposed to be heavier than the alloy guns. Also,besides being a weapons man in the army,I also have an associate degree in gunsmithing,and the double action trigger pull was so smooth right out of the box that I have never even considered taking the side cover off to do any work to it. It's the only revolver I have ever owned that needed nothing but to be loaded when I bought it.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
At BearingArms, they had an update. The dancing fool has finally been ID'd: Attorney Frank Azar says the gunshot hit a main artery and his client could have bled to death. The owners of Mile High Spirits and Distillery say it was one of their quick-thinking security guards who took off his belt and applied a tourniquet to the victim’s leg. However, witnesses dispute the claim that it was a bar security guard who applied the tourniquet. A witness told Denver7’s Lance Hernandez that he used his belt to apply the tourniquet, and he is not employed, nor is he affiliated with the bar in any capacity. … There is now a chorus of growing outrage among the public as the agent waits to see if he will face charges in the case. The agent’s name is Chase Bishop, 29. He was visiting Denver, but works out of Washington D.C. Some experts say after reviewing the videos several times, the case rises to the level of felony assault. Denver police say they are waiting on laboratory tests to determine whether Bishop will face charges. “The main thing I’m concerned about is that he’s being given incredibly special treatment because he’s an FBI agent,” said attorney and legal expert David Lane. “Had that been ‘Joe Citizen’ in that bar doing exactly the same thing, the cops would have been there in a heartbeat. They would have slapped the cuffs on him and he would have been in jail on a fairly high bond. Because anybody acting that ridiculously stupid should be in jail on a high bond.” Given his privileged treatment in this case, I have to wonder what senior bureaucrats at the Bureau or elsewhere in government he might be related to. I'd like to see the videos of his little dance routine redone with the soundtrack to Abba's Dancing Queen. : )
Man, the FBI is really taking some hard hits lately. This douchebag isn't helping. "Some experts say after reviewing the videos several times, the case rises to the level of felony assault. “Had that been ‘Joe Citizen’ in that bar doing exactly the same thing, the cops would have been there in a heartbeat." 'Joe Citizen' would have been charged with reckless conduct - -- -- as most are in those situations.
Which would be a very good reason to prosecute him, politically speaking. And because he does deserve it. I think Snoozy Jeff ought to wake up and institute a full-blown investigation from outside the FBI chain of command. Let's see if the Dems and libmedia want to defend the Dancing Queen.
Little known song of theirs. They say some play it at funerals.
Your song isn't a universal favorite about dancing. I think I read that it remains one of the most recognized and liked pop songs of all time. It's still popular after 42 years. That's pretty unusual. Amazing really.
It fits more into a section dealing with reckless endangerment. Hopefully they have a section that dictates it’s a felony to commit a reckless act that produces serious physical injury... regardless of intent. I will say however, the lack of intent should be factored into sentencing, cop or no cop.
I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح
I would agree. What fires me up is the idea that some reckless shooting like this, especially by a trained and trusted government official, would not be prosecuted the same way if it was any other civilian, or a PD cop, or a deputy or a politician. The FBI is not above the law. Watching how they keep trying to cover their own tracks, it is apparent that top FBI leadership does not consider itself as under the laws like everyone else. They consider themselves to be immune to the laws of this country. It's arrogant beyond belief. It's not pleasant to realize that the FBI has sunk so low as a result of nearly a decade of community organizing and Lefty leadership. We can't be too surprised really.
In my retirement job, I actually have opportunity to work with more of the feds (mostly FBI and ATF) than I ever did in my NYS job. In fact, it was a retired ATF agent that interviewed me for my current job... and he’s since resigned. The Feds do a good job at what they do... but most wouldn’t make it in the state and local department level, handling all kinds of calls with the local dysfunctional natives.
I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح
Something very significant has happened with BATFE in the last 10 years or so, something no one seems to write about. They allowed bump stocks, they allowed the "arm braces" on certain weapons (Sig's MPX/MCX and others), they're apparently allowing the unrifled Franklin Armory not-an-SBR to be classified as a "firearm" and not an SBR rifle, etc. They are still too slow at processing permits for restricted firearms like full-autos, SBRs and suppressors but that is just as likely to be bureaucratic sloth as any actual opposition to issuing the permits. And they still charge the same fee for full-auto permits as they did back in the Thirties. They seem to issue these various permits willy-nilly but it takes 6-12 months to get the permits. 10 years ago, we would have thought that Wayne LaPierre had instituted a hostile takeover of the BATFE if they had done these things. You don't even see the regular BATFE bashing by the gun sites and they used to be jampacked with BATFE-hate posts. Some of this undoubtedly started under Bush but most of it happened under 0bama (the greatest firearms salesman in the history of America). There has been a real sea change, mostly unnoticed, in BATFE and how it treats the public and how it is perceived by gunowners. Anyway, it is something no one seems to write about but it is remarkable. A little shocking even. Hell's bells, hardly anyone even mentions BATFE any more other than bitching about how long it takes to get a suppressor or SBR permit.
MY biggest disappointment with the FBI came when it was revealed the FBI Crime Lab routinely altered evidence to get convictions. That was when I started calling them "Feebs". Still,I am inclined to believe they have more honest and upright field agents that take their jobs and their oaths seriously than any other LEO in the world. Providing you get away from the "Career Glamour" field offices,that is. The brass in those places are nothing but career politicians.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
Good point. They are a specialized police agency and don't normally deal with nutcases getting messages from their dead dog on Jupiter.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
What's a SBR? I am GUESSING some sort of battle rifle,but it's just a guess.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
Short Barreled Rifle. They don't put real stocks on them to evade the restrictions. Because an arm brace isn't a stock legally. And no one forced the BATFE to issue that classification. As with bump stocks, they could easily have regulated these off the market. But they chose not to. Put a real stock on it, the same length, and it is an SBR and has to have a matching federal license, just like a suppressor or machine gun would. Sell it with an arm brace and it's legal almost anywhere. For some time, no one would post a video on YouBoob showing them cradling the "arm brace" to their shoulder because it was supposed to be just an arm brace to be legal. So they would only video it if the "arm brace" was held an inch from their shoulder. Obviously, it's all just a way to avoid BATFE restrictions based on that old list of the characteristics of ATF "black scary guns" from the AWB ban back in the Nineties. BATFE just is not the same bunch they were 20 years ago. Of course, these are essentially pistol-caliber AR-15 guns with matching controls. Notice that the "arm brace" typically folds to the left while the gun remains fully functional. So it is a very short They're pricey but people love 'em. I just shopped for one this last week but I'm not gonna give in to the thrill.
Pistol-caliber carbines. Bleech! I predict the arm brace will go the way of the bump stock as a device which takes advantage of a loophole in the law. Pay the one-time $200 NFA tax for the SBR and be done with it.
They're cute! And a very cute way for the firearms industry to turn some extra pistol parts into another AR-15 market. You have to give the gun industry some credit for inventing entirely new categories of civilian firearms.
I guess they are ok for people that like them,but I like rifles chambered for rifle cartridges. I know this practically makes me a Neanderthall,but I LOVE bolt-action rifles. Give me something starting with a 300 H&H with a 26 inch barrel in a Winchester receiver,and I will do my little happy dance. I did have a pretty sweet one based on a 700 Remington action once. Never did trust the safety,though. I once built a 375 caliber Siamese Mauser that was based on a blown out 348 Winchester case that was pretty impressive. Effectively,it was a 375 H & H on a medium action. I ended up giving it to a friend that said he was interested in shooting it,but AFAIK,it has never left his gun cabinet.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
Not at all. Lots of shooters start with these cheaper .223 tactical rifles but end up selling them to buy bolt-action rifles. You don't have to look far on the gun sites to find used AR-15s, fully outfitted and set up to be very accurate, with the ad saying that it never leaves the gun cabinet any more and they're selling it to get into bolt-action shooting. The reverse is almost never seen. It seems that no one sells their bolt-actions to buy anything except a better bolt-action rifle. Now we see the AR-15 crowd trying to cut into distance shooting out to 1300 yards with those newish Valkyrie .224 rounds. But those do cost over a dollar a round for good ammo, about twice what a good .308 bullet costs. And you still don't have the stopping power of any of the 30-cal rounds. It's surprising just how much those pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters cost. Anyway, I was surprised. They do have their fans.
Yup,and the most anal get into benchrest shooting. Which means they will NEVER be happy. It's surprising just how much those pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters cost. Anyway, I was surprised. They do have their fans. I think more people are collecting them these days than shooting them. I have an original Model 54 in 30/06 from the 30's,and nobody seems to be at all interested in it. Then again,I am not trying real hard to sell it. I want to sell it to a collector who will care for it and shoot it,not somebody looking for a receiver. I've owned the damn thing for over 30 years and never even shot it.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
It sounds like you are sort of one of those durned collectors yourself. : ) I inherited some guns from my dad that I never shoot. I've considered trading them in for something I would want to shoot. I looked them over a few days ago just to see their condition. Closet guns that haven't been shot or cleaned in ages aren't a good way to keep guns and what is the point of a gun you don't shoot and don't want to shoot? Browning Belgian, early to mid-Fifties, a little rust on it in the decorative engraving The shotguns are in rough condition IMO, probably worth $200-$300 each. The Model 74 is the only one I ever shot much, the only one with any sentimental value.
I recently restored a Stevens Model 70 "Visible Loader" (.22) that I got from my brother-in law. It was missing parts, parts were welded together, the barrel was rusted in spots. I ordered parts from all over the country, cleaned and blued them, and ended up with a beautiful gun that cost three times to restore than what it's worth. But it was fun.
I hear ya. This Belgian was so beautiful when I was a kid but it got those little rust spots, shows a few marks of dryness or friction, a little wood scuffing. I hate to think how much it would cost to make it a mint gun. You could spend a thousand or more and turn a $300 shotgun into a $600 shotgun. A shotgun that hadn't been fired since the mid-Eighties at that. Hell, I have maybe one box of shotgun shells and it isn't even full. If they were totally mint, I admit I would find it harder to part with them because I would think of them as collectibles. So your efforts to restore a .22 to mint condition might be appreciated by someone in the family some day. I'm kind of in the phase of "I kept too much of my parents' stuff for sentimental reasons". Naturally firearms were at the bottom of the list of things to get rid of but I have gotten a little tired of just seeing them sit in a closet too, especially if I don't want to shoot them. I keep thinking how much more I would enjoy having a gun that I actually want and would take out to shoot X many times a year. And those shotguns should find a home with someone who wants to actually shoot them, maybe end up parted out to keep someone else's family gun in working order. I just question the value of guns that do nothing but sit in a closet for decades.
I’ve got an old side by side 20 gauge (model 311) that ain’t worth putting money into. Might cut the barrels down to just past legal... and use it as an anti trespassing potato gun.
I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح
Not a bad gun to give to some younger family member. I just don't have any that shoot any guns or who don't already have much nicer guns. I only have one nephew who shoots at all.
Yeah,it does seem that way. When I look at it,I see history. I should sell it,but am not really interested in selling it to anyone who doesn't appreciate it for what it is.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
True,but they are always high on the "Hey,I gotta gun I'd be willing to trade for that if you're interested." list. People tend to see trading as "free" because no money changes hands,and lots of people would trade for a gun that would never consider buying one. And why not,when they can get it "for free"? I once let a guy talk me into trading a ratty AMC Hornet I had just bought the day before for $150 cash,in exchange for a factory 700 Remington in 300 H&H Magnum that looked new and shot one ragged hole at 100 yards,a TC with the 44 Magnum and .223 barrels and scope,and 100 bucks. Sounds odd,but you have to understand this was late Dec in Denver,the second winter I had been riding my bike to work and school,and we were getting hit with a blizzard. It ain't a lot of fun getting out of school at midnight and discovering 8 inches of snow on the ground and the air temp is in the 20's not counting wind chill,and you have to ride a Harley 8+ miles to get home. Still,the next night I was riding my Harley to work and school,and once more looking for a beater car with windows and a heater.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
There is nothing wrong with those old Savage/Stevens side by sides. Damn good guns that were well made,but had cheap wood and a cheap finish.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
The Stevens Visible Loader is nicknamed the Miserable Loader. You have to completely assemble it to check clearances, then completely disassemble it to make adjustments. Wash, rinse, repeat. It's a $100 rifle (today's price) tha that that was given to boys in the early 1900's as their first rifle.
Stop it, I'm weeping here... LOL
Sounds pretty awful. : ) Isn't that like rebuilding an Edsel? Even if you do it perfect, no one will want it.
by Daniel Arkin Dance like the whole world is watching. An off-duty FBI agent who accidentally fired a gun that dropped out of its holster while he was doing a back-flip at a nightclub was booked into custody on Tuesday, jail records showed. Chase Bishop, 29, was being held in a detention center in downtown Denver. He faces charges for second-degree assault but he has not been formally charged.... [snip]
About time. If it was anyone else, they would have been in custody the entire time or until they made bail. It's the special treatment for an FBI agent that roils. The video leaves no doubt of his guilt in reckless endangerment resulting in injury.
I noticed a scary thread at that CCW site I just posted a thread from about Floriduh's CCW foul-up. *** Kinda bloody *** Don't look at this if your supper hasn't settled yet. He had an IWB holster (butt-holster), using Speer Gold Dot 9mm 115 grain +P+ ammo. ConcealedNation.org: When Bad Holsters Turn Worse: This Guy Took One Right In The A$$, Here’s Why A Proper Holster Is Essential I gotta say, he was pretty shameless about those photos and kept a good sense of humor. Apparently he really likes taking these photos. LOL [Yeah, I know GI has seen a lot worse in real life...] Too bad this wasn't the FBI's Dancing Queen.
Pretty cool... very colorful wound. Good thing it wasn’t stuffed inside his pant, under the belly button.
I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح
I was horrified. LOL
I seriously doubt the ammo had anything to do with the accidental discharge -- yet we get details we don't need. Just out of curiosity -- because it may be somewhat important to the reason for the accidental discharge -- WHAT KIND OF GUN WAS IT? Did he modify the trigger? A "bunching t-shirt" was enough to set it off?
No powder burns.
Gold Dot is decent stuff... might have opened up the wound channel a little more than most hollow point ammo. I’m sure that gun fired due to an accidental finger on the trigger or something catching the trigger because the iwb holser didn’t cover the trigger. I only carry Federal HST ammo.
I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح
You are right. I’ve seen much worse.
I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح
I was fascinated by how many rather lurid ass shots he took of himself. He was really into it, capturing all those funny camera angles, taking those shots where you could see all the way through the hole in his cheek, etc. I suppose he posted it all on Facebook too. Some idiot Millennial. They can't help themselves.
I noticed too but it occurred to me that he shot through the holster and that probably minimized the burns.
Try to set off the 12lb. trigger on my 642 with a "bunched up tshirt". Ain't gonna happen.
I carry a standard 5.5 pound pull on any Glock I carry. I too wear iwb holsters that provide zero weapon retention or much of a trigger guard. I’ve never had a problem with AD’s. Then again, I don’t do back flips in alcoholic beverage serving establishments, while packing Roscoe.
I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح
Wasn't it the New York City police department that ordered all their Glocks modified to a 12-pound trigger pull because of AD's? And theirs are open carry in a fitted leather holster with strap by trained shooters.
NYPD add 5.5 pounds for a total of 11... and NYS Police add 3.5 pounds. The selling point for the increased pounds needed for trigger pull wasn’t to reduce AD’s... it was for lawsuit purposes, to show that these two police departments went to a greater length, to promote safety than even the gun manufacturer did. To get the sale of their gun in the worlds largest police department, Glock was happy to make the part needed to accommodate the requests.
I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح
Well, if Glock wants to get the sale of their gun in my pants, that's the trigger I'd want. Even better, a DA/SA set at 12/5. I'll adjust for the second shot. There are some nice ambidextrous pistols out there like that (not Glock).
I was gun shopping again and didn't even want to look at pistols but the gun store had some of those Tanfoglio handguns. Man, were those sweet. I loved the way they fit into my hand, so much nicer than those clunky German guns like Sig or even the Austrian Glocks. Just a sweet Italian design, really hugs your hand.
Both of my boys have the 9mm Canik TP9SFx with red dot sight. They love the 4 pound trigger, crisp reset, and slide charging handle. Full-size handgun, striker-fire, fun to shoot. Comes with loads of accessories. Under $500.
Turkish guns have an increasing reputation. I think that Tanfoglio just picked up a Turkish manufacturer for their product line as well. Handsome pistol. I see the one in the video is marketed by Century Arms of Vertmont. And that Made In Turkey logo is way too prominent. Too bad they aren't cultivating a more discreet style. They need to be more mindful of modern EU/USA standards for firearm markings.
#2. To: misterwhite (#1)
(Edited)
#3. To: misterwhite (#0)
#4. To: misterwhite, roids, alcohol, drugs (#0)
#5. To: hondo68 (#4)
#6. To: Tooconservative (#2)
and went off when he picked it up to put it back in his holster.
#7. To: misterwhite (#6)
Light trigger.
#8. To: Tooconservative (#7)
I get the feeling you're not shopping for a Glock. Just a hunch...
#9. To: Tooconservative (#2)
#10. To: misterwhite (#8)
Leave the Glock in the bedside table drawer where you have time to rack a round.
#11. To: misterwhite (#9)
What was that gesture with the hands at the end? Oops? My bad? Shit happens?
#12. To: Tooconservative (#10)
but others here tell me the pistol is considered unloaded unless it has a shell in the chamber at all times.
#13. To: Tooconservative (#11)
The dancing just looked wrong.
#14. To: misterwhite (#13)
#15. To: misterwhite, Hank Rearden, Fred Mertz, Hondo68 (#13)
#16. To: Tooconservative (#15)
#17. To: Fred Mertz (#16)
The kids freaked out when he grabbed a rifle, so I guess it is funny.
#18. To: misterwhite (#12)
They're correct. It's a paperweight. But it's safe.
#19. To: Tooconservative (#18)
#20. To: misterwhite, sneakypete (#19)
(Edited)
#21. To: Tooconservative (#20)
I get your point but I think he had cleared the holster by several inches when he ventilated his leg.
#22. To: Tooconservative (#18)
This storeowner got himself and his son killed while trying to just get a round into the chamber.
#23. To: misterwhite (#22)
(Edited)
#24. To: Tooconservative (#23)
#25. To: Tooconservative (#23)
#26. To: Fred Mertz (#24)
A hunting friend of mine and gun enthusiast wears his .45 on his hip with the weapon cocked and safety on. Who am I to question him about that?
Mine is a revolver which is four feet from me right now. I don't carry. It is in a holster which might make me one second slow on the draw. I don't worry about those things.
#27. To: misterwhite (#25)
When the grandkids come over, I lock everything up in the gun safe. On orders from the wife.
They know better not to snoop. If they do and shoot themselves … well, their fault.
#28. To: Tooconservative (#27)
I wouldn't share that opinion with the wife. : )
#29. To: Tooconservative (#20)
(Edited)
Maybe sneaky has an opinion.
#30. To: Tooconservative (#23)
At some point, I'll probably weaken and reconsider my habit of not keeping a bullet in the chamber in my bedroom gun.
#31. To: Fred Mertz (#24)
A hunting friend of mine and gun enthusiast wears his .45 on his hip with the weapon cocked and safety on. Who am I to question him about that?
#32. To: sneakypete (#31)
If it is a 1911 style Colt...
#33. To: Tooconservative (#26)
There are days when I seriously consider getting rid of the Glock and buying a good wheel gun instead.
#34. To: Fred Mertz (#32)
Also, one other safety feature is if the weapon is against something with the muzzle it won't fire.
#35. To: misterwhite (#1)
(Edited)
Bet it was a Glock.
#36. To: Tooconservative (#23)
I'll probably weaken and reconsider my habit of not keeping a bullet in the chamber in my bedroom gun.
#37. To: GrandIsland (#35)
Glocks don’t fire from being dropped.
#38. To: GrandIsland (#36)
(Edited)
If you follow the four basic firearm safety rules at all times,
#39. To: misterwhite, GrandIsland (#38)
This guy was a trained FBI agent with who knows how many hours of periodic classroom and range safety training. Yet he carried unholstered in the small of his back -- two big no-no's. Three, if it was a Glock.
#40. To: Tooconservative (#39)
#41. To: Tooconservative (#39)
It's a gun jammed in your asscrack.
#42. To: misterwhite (#41)
Just a 5-pound pull away from going from an ass crack to an ass chasm.
#43. To: misterwhite, Fred Mertz, hondo68, sneakypete, GrandIsland (#40)
#44. To: Tooconservative (#43)
Proudly called, “West Point for Law Enforcement,' the FBI Academy occupies 547 acres on a Marine Corps base in Quantico, Virginia, just 40 miles from Washington DC
#45. To: hondo68 (#44)
#46. To: hondo68 (#44)
He learned his disco moves at Quantico.
#47. To: misterwhite (#37)
a 5-pound pull.
#48. To: Tooconservative (#39)
He really should have been arrested IMO. Reckless endangerment charges, maybe more depending on CO statutes.
#49. To: GrandIsland, misterwhite (#48)
He’d had been charged if he worked for my old department or the current place I work out of.
#50. To: Tooconservative (#49)
Did you two notice how he tucked his ass-gun back into his butt-crack?
#51. To: Tooconservative (#49)
(Edited)
Did you two notice how he tucked his ass-gun back into his butt-crack?
#52. To: misterwhite (#50)
#53. To: GrandIsland (#51)
Watching stupid shit by cops, isn’t on my list for entertainment... unless it’s part of department training.
#54. To: Tooconservative (#52)
#55. To: GrandIsland (#54)
They are designed for concealment, and all hybrid holsters have ZERO weapon retention.
#56. To: Tooconservative (#49)
(Edited)
He was wearing no belt
#57. To: Tooconservative (#52)
#58. To: sneakypete (#29)
" DAO Rossi 44 Special with a 3 inch barrel for social work "
#59. To: Stoner (#58)
What happened Pete ? I thought you carried a Charter Arms of same caliber and configuration . What caused the change ?
#60. To: sneakypete (#59)
#61. To: Stoner (#60)
(Edited)
Interesting. I am not in the market for such a toy, but if I ever decide to do so, I will keep your advice in mind.
#62. To: misterwhite, GrandIsland, Liberator (#57)
The attorney for the man shot at a Denver bar over the weekend by a dancing FBI agent says the injury to his client’s leg is much worse than first reported.
#63. To: Tooconservative (#62)
Given his privileged treatment in this case, I have to wonder what senior bureaucrats at the Bureau or elsewhere in government he might be related to.
#64. To: misterwhite (#63)
Man, the FBI is really taking some hard hits lately. This douchebag isn't helping.
#65. To: Tooconservative (#64)
#66. To: misterwhite (#65)
#67. To: Tooconservative (#62)
Some experts say after reviewing the videos several times, the case rises to the level of felony assault.
#68. To: GrandIsland (#67)
I will say however, the lack of intent should be factored into sentencing, cop or no cop.
#69. To: Tooconservative (#68)
What fires me up is the idea that some reckless shooting like this, especially by a trained and trusted government official
#70. To: GrandIsland, Liberator, sneakypete (#69)
(Edited)
In fact, it was a retired ATF agent that interviewed me for my current job... and he’s since resigned.
#71. To: Tooconservative (#68)
The FBI is not above the law. Watching how they keep trying to cover their own tracks, it is apparent that top FBI leadership does not consider itself as under the laws like everyone else.
#72. To: GrandIsland (#69)
but most wouldn’t make it in the state and local department level, handling all kinds of calls with the local dysfunctional natives.
#73. To: Tooconservative (#70)
They allowed bump stocks, they allowed the "arm braces" on certain weapons (Sig's MPX/MCX and others), they're apparently allowing the unrifled Franklin Armory not-an-SBR to be classified as a "firearm" and not an SBR rifle, etc.
#74. To: sneakypete, misterwhite (#73)
(Edited)
What's a SBR? I am GUESSING some sort of battle rifle,but it's just a guess.
full-auto semi-auto that can be used as small rifle as well. Bigger and more stable than a pistol, just long enough you can stabilize it better than a pistol, shoots cheap ammo including your supply of cheap 9mm bullets.
#75. To: Tooconservative (#74)
#76. To: misterwhite (#75)
Pistol-caliber carbines. Bleech!
#77. To: Tooconservative (#74)
Of course, these are essentially pistol-caliber AR-15 guns with matching controls.
#78. To: sneakypete (#77)
(Edited)
I know this practically makes me a Neanderthall,but I LOVE bolt-action rifles.
Give me something starting with a 300 H&H with a 26 inch barrel in a Winchester receiver,and I will do my little happy dance.
#79. To: Tooconservative (#78)
It seems that no one sells their bolt-actions to buy anything except a better bolt-action rifle.
#80. To: sneakypete, misterwhite (#79)
I've owned the damn thing for over 30 years and never even shot it.
Winchester Model 12 shotgun, Forties or Fifties gun
some crappy old single-shot .410 (Harrington & Richardson, Topper Model 158), can't imagine it's worth more than $100
Winchester Model 74, .22 short, made in 1942, decent shape, probably the most valuable of the bunch
#81. To: Tooconservative (#80)
Winchester Model 74, .22 short, made in 1942, decent shape, probably the most valuable of the bunch
#82. To: misterwhite (#81)
I ordered parts from all over the country, cleaned and blued them, and ended up with a beautiful gun that cost three times to restore than what it's worth.
#83. To: Tooconservative (#82)
#84. To: GrandIsland (#83)
I’ve got an old side by side 20 gauge (model 311) that ain’t worth putting money into.
#85. To: Tooconservative (#80)
(Edited)
It sounds like you are sort of one of those durned collectors yourself. : )
#86. To: Tooconservative (#82)
Naturally firearms were at the bottom of the list of things to get rid of
#87. To: GrandIsland (#83)
I’ve got an old side by side 20 gauge (model 311) that ain’t worth putting money into.
#88. To: Tooconservative (#82)
#89. To: sneakypete (#86)
I once let a guy talk me into trading a ratty AMC Hornet...
#90. To: misterwhite (#88)
The Stevens Visible Loader is nicknamed the Miserable Loader.
#91. To: Tooconservative (#39)
He really should have been arrested IMO. Reckless endangerment charges, maybe more depending on CO statutes.
FBI agent whose gun went off while doing dance backflip taken into custody
Jun.12.2018 / 2:01 PM ET / Updated 2:09 PM ET
#92. To: nolu chan (#91)
FBI agent whose gun went off while doing dance backflip taken into custody
#93. To: nolu chan, sneakypete, redleghunter, Liberator, GrandIsland, misterwhite (#91)
(Edited)
#94. To: Tooconservative (#93)
#95. To: GrandIsland (#94)
Pretty cool... very colorful wound.
#96. To: Tooconservative (#93)
"using Speer Gold Dot 9mm 115 grain +P+ ammo."
#97. To: GrandIsland (#94)
Pretty cool... very colorful wound
#98. To: misterwhite (#96)
(Edited)
#99. To: Tooconservative (#95)
#100. To: GrandIsland (#99)
You are right. I’ve seen much worse.
#101. To: misterwhite (#97)
No powder burns.
#102. To: GrandIsland (#98)
or something catching the trigger
#103. To: misterwhite (#102)
Try to set off the 12lb. trigger
#104. To: GrandIsland (#103)
I’ve never had a problem with AD’s.
#105. To: misterwhite (#104)
#106. To: GrandIsland (#105)
To get the sale of their gun in the worlds largest police department, Glock was happy to make the part needed to accommodate the requests.
#107. To: misterwhite, GrandIsland (#106)
Even better, a DA/SA set at 12/5. I'll adjust for the second shot. There are some nice ambidextrous pistols out there like that (not Glock).
#108. To: Tooconservative (#107)
#109. To: misterwhite (#108)
(Edited)
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