BRUSSELS (ChurchMilitant.com) - Brussels is getting backlash from Poland for flying a gay flag outside of the European Parliament.
On Thursday, a rainbow flag was hoisted up in front of the building for the first time in its history, marking "International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia."
Despite outcry from Polish conservatives, the European Union said, "Regrettably, lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and intersex (LGBTI) persons in Europe are still subject to serious discrimination and maltreatment on the basis of their sexual orientation or gender identity."
Ryszard Legutko, co-chairman of the European Conservatives and Reformists group, said in a letter to the European Parliament that Thursday's initiative displayed "just one lobby group."
He questioned why the Parliament would not promote other unofficial "international days" like those celebrating museums, beer or students.
Since 1990, May 17 has been remembered as the anniversary of the removal of homosexuality from the International Classification of Diseases of the World Health Organization.
But Legutko blasted the display of a rainbow flag, saying it endorses a "moral revolution" that privileges same-sex couples. There are "practically no ... attacks" on those with same-sex attraction, Legutko emphasized.
There are 'practically no ... attacks' on those with same-sex attraction.
This didn't stop the European Commission and European External Action Service, also in Brussels, from illuminating its headquarters with the colors of the gay flag.
Frans Timmermans, vice president of the European Commission, said, "It's time we put an end to the widespread discrimination against LGBTI people together."
However, Legutko instead recommended hoisting a flag with a fish — a symbol of Christianity — to symbolize the millions of Christians suffering persecution worldwide.
Poster Comment:
Many of us are sick and tired of politicians kissing the asses of queers! Resurrect the law that outlaws homosexual acts and proselytizing today's thoroughly confused youth. The belong hidden under a rock.
Widespread LGBTQI discrimination? Where? When? By whom? If it happens there must have been major stories in the press. But nothing.
Instead what I see are Christians being slaughtered and persecuted by the thousands over the last 20 years and not a word from the atheistic marxists in Brussels, London, Berlin, Paris.
No marching to underscore their 'Gay Pride' and no proselytizing.
Freedom of Speech.
Nazis have the right to march in Skokie. KKK has the right to public rallies. Occupy Wall Street has the right to hang out and be hippies. Gays get to prance down Broadway. So do the Irish, on St. Patrick's Day. Everybody gets to proselytize his religious, political or sexual beliefs. Patriots get to parade the flag, and yahoos get to burn it.
If I had to take penal Substitution as Christian teaching, I would not find Christ and His loving kindness there. I would not be a Christian.
I demonstrated quite a few early fathers taught both Substitution and Penal Substitution.
It's the complete Biblical view and the ECFs I quoted show this. Admitting what is obvious does not subtract from Christ's loving kindness. It actually makes one more reverent of the gift of God's Grace.
Admitting what is obvious does not subtract from Christ's loving kindness. It actually makes one more reverent of the gift of God's Grace.
What about loving kindness of God the Father Almighty? He is not able to show it otherwise than torturing His own Son to pay the debt? (Even in Germanic religion the spear of laws guarded by Odin could be broken.)
Were countless Jews, Greeks and Romans enthusiastically willing to dedicate their lives to persecution and suffering (St. Peter also was crucified and many others), because their good hearts were moved by such image?
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
I DO like parades, especially controversial ones, because they demonstrate that this is a free country.
That said, the only parade I actually watch is the 4th of July parade in my town. I dont watch parades - I just like to know people can have them. And I like to know that the people who wanted to stop them failed.
What about loving kindness of God the Father Almighty? He is not able to show it otherwise than torturing His own Son to pay the debt? (Even in Germanic religion the spear of laws guarded by Odin could be broken.)
Were countless Jews, Greeks and Romans enthusiastically willing to dedicate their lives to persecution and suffering (St. Peter also was crucified and many others), because their good hearts were moved by such image?
This above is post modern atheistic "optics."
With regards to Isaiah 53 and the Suffering Servant, Isaih 55:8 must be taken into consideration.
This above is post modern atheistic "optics." Show it.
No problem. The atheistic rant is God is a big "meanie." To soften the Holy God of the Bible and His wrath against sin, some Christians are trying to 'soften' the image of God to appease a post-modern sensitive society.
You quote:
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” Complete non sequitur.
Absolutely not. It is a fact. When we try to encapsulate God in man's understanding according to man's ways error will occur.
As I mentioned the Ransom theory is solid. It is just incomplete. I quoted the fathers who quoted and commented on the pertinent Holy Scriptures. They teach Jesus satisfied the Father's wrath by suffering and dying for us.
BTW Anselm and Calvin thoughts are all too human, taken from Germanic tribal law, payment of wergild. Anselm was more about satisfying honor than satisfying the wrath of God against law breakers.
Isaiah 53: NASB
1Who has believed our message? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
2For He grew up before Him like a tender shoot, And like a root out of parched ground; He has no stately form or majesty That we should look upon Him, Nor appearance that we should be attracted to Him.
3He was despised and forsaken of men, A man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; And like one from whom men hide their face He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.
4Surely our griefs He Himself bore, And our sorrows He carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted.
5But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed.
6All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all To fall on Him.
7He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He did not open His mouth; Like a lamb that is led to slaughter, And like a sheep that is silent before its shearers, So He did not open His mouth.
8By oppression and judgment He was taken away; And as for His generation, who considered That He was cut off out of the land of the living For the transgression of my people, to whom the stroke was due?
9His grave was assigned with wicked men, Yet He was with a rich man in His death, Because He had done no violence, Nor was there any deceit in His mouth.
10But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.
11As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see it and be satisfied; By His knowledge the Righteous One, My Servant, will justify the many, As He will bear their iniquities.
12Therefore, I will allot Him a portion with the great, And He will divide the booty with the strong; Because He poured out Himself to death, And was numbered with the transgressors; Yet He Himself bore the sin of many, And interceded for the transgressors.
I think it is all too clear why the early fathers I quoted taught what they did. That Jesus Christ satisfied the wrath of God against sin.
Colossians 2: NASB
8See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. 9For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, 10and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority; 11and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; 12having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.
13When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.
You apparently have no children who would watch such disgusting acts performed in a circus they call a parade.
We're New Yorkers. Nothing phases us. We're not afraid of much of anything. Are the folks elsewhere so weak that they can't see the freak parade pass by without jumping up to join it? Your fear about such things seems childish.
In truth, the degree of your hysteria about it sounds like somebody speaking from the pain of having been molested as a child. For the record, that should not happen to anybody, and if it happened to you, I'm really sorry that it did.
But just because a traumatized kid picked up a gun and shot up a school does not mean that nobody should be allowed to have guns. And just because you, or I, were molested or raped as children does not mean that consensual sex between adults should be restricted, or that public displays of affection, whether heterosexual or homosexual, should be repressed by law.
The two things are related: widespread gun possession DOES mean more school shootings, and the general acceptance of sexual expression does mean more sexual expression, and more incidence of child molestations. The fact of increased criminality and more victimhood is the high price of human liberty. It is a price that Americans have always been willing to pay.
Yes, in New York the freak parade goes on daily, and children grow up seeing it. And when they are adults they'll either laugh at it, like the well- adjusted do, or they'll join it. Either way, that is their right, that is freedom, that is liberty, that is what America is about - from OUR perspective.
The loss of life and innocence is a regrettable price that a free world pays for being free.
In truth, the degree of your hysteria about it sounds like somebody speaking from the pain of having been molested as a child. For the record, that should not happen to anybody, and if it happened to you, I'm really sorry that it did
Do you actually know how full of shit your prattle sounds?
Liberals are like Slinkys. They're good for nothing, but somehow they bring a smile to your face as you shove them down the stairs.
To soften the Holy God of the Bible and His wrath against sin,
It is not God's wrath, it is YOURS wrath that you ascribe to him.
some Christians are trying to 'soften' the image of God to appease a post-modern sensitive society.
Well, yes. Post-modern sensitive society does not like anymore burning people alive, so they stopped to believe your presentation of Divine bloodthirstiness. It was appealing to the many, centuries ago, you should be sent back in time 1000 years, or 3000 would be even better.
It is not God's wrath, it is YOURS wrath that you ascribe to him.
That's cute.
Well, yes. Post-modern sensitive society does not like anymore burning people alive, so they stopped to believe your presentation of Divine bloodthirstiness. It was appealing to the many, centuries ago, you should be sent back in time 1000 years, or 3000 would be even better.
When did Orthodoxy embrace Universalism or Annihilationism?
The anathemas of the local Council of Constantinople in 453, which is understood by most commentators to be confirmed by the Fifth Ecumenical Council in 553, posthumously excommunicated Origen and anyone following specific points of his teachings. These anathemas condemned his protology of pre-existent souls and his eschatology of universal restoration of all things "which follows from" his protology.
https://orthodoxwiki.org/Apocatastasis
There will not be Apocatastasis. But it does not mean that all could not be saved if they wanted, but they will not as they have free will. Satan did not have to turn away from God, but he did.
When did Orthodoxy embrace Universalism or Annihilationism? "Annihilationism is incompatible with Orthodoxy (so it was condemned by the 5th Ecumenical Council)"
The anathemas of the local Council of Constantinople in 453, which is understood by most commentators to be confirmed by the Fifth Ecumenical Council in 553, posthumously excommunicated Origen and anyone following specific points of his teachings. These anathemas condemned his protology of pre-existent souls and his eschatology of universal restoration of all things "which follows from" his protology.
https://orthodoxwiki.org/Apocatastasis
There will not be Apocatastasis. But it does not mean that all could not be saved if they wanted, but they will not as they have free will. Satan did not have to turn away from God, but he did.
Glad we cleared that up.
Now that we cleared up that point we can discuss why you think I'm making up the references to the wrath of God.
Now that we cleared up that point we can discuss why you think I'm making up the references to the wrath of God.
Here are NT references:
Wrath of God
I am sorry, but I am not able to address so many passages.
I am picking one, probably the one you would pick.
"Rom 5:9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him."
The original text in Greek that DOES NOT mention "wrath OF GOD". Only wrath.
I would understand this passage:
"Ewen more, after being reconciled with righteousness thanks to His blood, we shall be also saved from the eternal separation from God" (wrath being state of separation from God caused by unrighteousness)
I have a copy as well. Question is "whose wrath." Verse 10 tells us:
Romans 5:
9Even more so then, since we are now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from wrath through him! 10For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, how much more shall we be saved by his life!
(The EOB or) Eastern/ Greek Orthodox New Testament based on the Official Text of the Greek Orthodox Church (Patriarchal Text of 1904)
I found a nice Orthodox explanation of those passages:
A Biblical View of Christ's Death
Very good article. I agree that we should always start with the Incarnation when discussing soteriology.
And frankly, I find the article you linked correct, but incomplete.
The author is correct most Protestants translate hilasterion as propitiation and do so according to the Hebrew understanding of the word. For example the author says:
“The hilasterion is the place where the impurity resulting from the sins of Israel is ritually cleansed once a year…what Paul is saying is that God has put forward Christ as a ‘mercy seat of faith’, not ‘an expiation’ [or] a ‘sacrifice of atonement’” [Finlan, 40] That is to say, Jesus Christ has been made the mercy seat for our sins. He is where Christians are purified. He is the place of our union with God, not the means of satisfying an angry Father.
What he leaves out of the Mercy Seat allusion is the High Priest had to sprinkle blood on the Mercy Seat to even come close to the presence of God.
Once again, it begs the question why blood had to be put on the Mercy Seat?
Leviticus 16: NASB
2The LORD said to Moses: “Tell your brother Aaron that he shall not enter at any time into the holy place inside the veil, before the mercy seat which is on the ark, or he will die; for I will appear in the cloud over the mercy seat. 3“Aaron shall enter the holy place with this: with a bull for a sin offering and a ram for a burnt offering. 4“He shall put on the holy linen tunic, and the linen undergarments shall be next to his body, and he shall be girded with the linen sash and attired with the linen turban (these are holy garments). Then he shall bathe his body in water and put them on. 5“He shall take from the congregation of the sons of Israel two male goats for a sin offering and one ram for a burnt offering. 6“Then Aaron shall offer the bull for the sin offering which is for himself, that he may make atonement for himself and for his household. 7“He shall take the two goats and present them before the LORD at the doorway of the tent of meeting. 8“Aaron shall cast lots for the two goats, one lot for the LORD and the other lot for the scapegoat. 9“Then Aaron shall offer the goat on which the lot for the LORD fell, and make it a sin offering. 10“But the goat on which the lot for the scapegoat fell shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make atonement upon it, to send it into the wilderness as the scapegoat.
11“Then Aaron shall offer the bull of the sin offering which is for himself and make atonement for himself and for his household, and he shall slaughter the bull of the sin offering which is for himself. 12“He shall take a firepan full of coals of fire from upon the altar before the LORD and two handfuls of finely ground sweet incense, and bring it inside the veil. 13“He shall put the incense on the fire before the LORD, that the cloud of incense may cover the mercy seat that is on the ark of the testimony, otherwise he will die. 14“Moreover, he shall take some of the blood of the bull and sprinkle it with his finger on the mercy seat on the east side; also in front of the mercy seat he shall sprinkle some of the blood with his finger seven times.
15“Then he shall slaughter the goat of the sin offering which is for the people, and bring its blood inside the veil and do with its blood as he did with the blood of the bull, and sprinkle it on the mercy seat and in front of the mercy seat.16“He shall make atonement for the holy place, because of the impurities of the sons of Israel and because of their transgressions in regard to all their sins; and thus he shall do for the tent of meeting which abides with them in the midst of their impurities. 17“When he goes in to make atonement in the holy place, no one shall be in the tent of meeting until he comes out, that he may make atonement for himself and for his household and for all the assembly of Israel. 18“Then he shall go out to the altar that is before the LORD and make atonement for it, and shall take some of the blood of the bull and of the blood of the goat and put it on the horns of the altar on all sides. 19“With his finger he shall sprinkle some of the blood on it seven times and cleanse it, and from the impurities of the sons of Israel consecrate it.
20“When he finishes atoning for the holy place and the tent of meeting and the altar, he shall offer the live goat. 21“Then Aaron shall lay both of his hands on the head of the live goat, and confess over it all the iniquities of the sons of Israel and all their transgressions in regard to all their sins; and he shall lay them on the head of the goat and send it away into the wilderness by the hand of a man who stands in readiness. 22“The goat shall bear on itself all their iniquities to a solitary land; and he shall release the goat in the wilderness.
The above shows death to Aaron if satisfaction not met. The Mercy Seat still required a blood sacrifice.
Many of us are sick and tired of politicians kissing the asses of queers!
Amen! I could spend hours on this subject as I know you could as well.
This phenomena has been directly out of fear of the Leftist-MSM (with their homofascists-in-charge "news" editors) running front page stories, like (BLANK-BLANK IS A HOMOPHOBE). But then many of these psychos become politicians to immunize and hide their proclivities behind the power they attain, don't they?
Shame on feckless "Christians" or any righteous person who justifies and enables the entire homofascist agenda (whose goal is to exterminate Christians/Christianity) -- as well as their mission to infect and abuse our culture and with it our children (and their very souls).
Resurrect the law that outlaws homosexual acts and proselytizing today's thoroughly confused youth. The belong hidden under a rock.
They should just fly their Freak-Flag down in their dungeon or home where it belongs.
But no -- these perverts are given license to shake it in 5 year old Johnny face. WHERE-EVER. That's NOT "Free Speech", it's Assault on a Child. And assault on the rest of us.
Fascist Homosexuals are an angry, toxic bunch...And yes, THEY are major reason for much confusion, irrationality and insanity irrationality these recent days. As they've finagled positions of power (whether Politicians, Teachers, Clergy, etal), among other perverted priorities they've managed to criminalize the Good and reward and sanction Evil as part of their Crotch-Cult.
The coercive proselytizing through PUBLIC school -- at that, at EARLY age -- OVER the objection of parent WHILE funded by taxpayers is MIND-RAPE. This is criminality on a scale which to many of us (the sane) is mega child-abuse and assault, outrageous to the nth degree. It is satanic, and that's not being hyperbolic about it.
Those personally responsible for hammering through this militant homo-fascist agenda during saner times (which wasn't long ago) would have been given thorough beating. IF they survived.
Widespread LGBTQI discrimination? Where? When? By whom?
Yep, it's BS. Just like "Hate Crimes" and "Hate Speech". Claiming "HOMOPHOBIA!!" is as weaponized as "RACIST!", "ISLAMOPHOBIA!", "Xenophobia!" and "#ME TOO!!" All these Fake Victims have ONE thing in common: They are openly waging a war against Christendom, Sovereignty, Whites, Men, and Conservatism....and Common Sense.
The Homofascists will remain offensive and in control of Public School until the day in NYC all 2nd Grade boys are required to be made-up and dressed like little girls while watching gay porno as a "teachable moments.
Instead what I see are Christians being slaughtered and persecuted by the thousands over the last 20 years and not a word from the atheistic marxists in Brussels, London, Berlin, Paris.
100% TRUTH!
These demonic Euro-Worms and their vicious assault on Christians, the preborn, the truth, and with it, all that is right and good sicken me. The Lord's Wrath and Justice is coming.
#138. To: IbJensen, redleghunter, Stoner, no gnu taxes, TooConservative, A K A Stone (#0)
Legutko instead recommended hoisting a flag with a fish — a symbol of Christianity — to symbolize the millions of Christians suffering persecution worldwide.
TOUCHE!
And...WHY NOT??
EU and Leftist hypocrites: "Nope. Too 'polarizing'" (as bigoted homofascist-Leftists continue to bash and demonize Christians with impunity.)
I think Poland is the most Catholic country left in Europe. Even Italy isn't as devoutly Catholic.
Poland might be more Catholic than the pope. Well, at least more than Pope Frank is.
[I like reading TheLibertyDaily where they routinely refer to the "Marxist pope" and have taken to describing Xlinton as "Democrat Rapist Bill Clinton". And your former governor is called "Bloated RINO Chris Christie". They're a fun-loving bunch. LOL]
Not even the sign of the Fisherman does not stand in when it's time for Americans to address our Flag! This is a national thing rather than one dealing with Christianity.
Time for a civil war Where leftist heads are cracked open in order to see if there's anything inside.
Liberals are like Slinkys. They're good for nothing, but somehow they bring a smile to your face as you shove them down the stairs.
I think Poland is the most Catholic country left in Europe. Even Italy isn't as devoutly Catholic.
Undoubtedly. And easily the most principled, holding onto Christendom, and in ways even more "American" (in the context of resemblance to a past pro-traditional America) than the US.
Italy is now mostly CINO-Heathen.
Poland might be more Catholic than the pope. Well, at least more than Pope Frank is.
The Devil is more "Catholic" than this Pope.
[I like reading TheLibertyDaily where they routinely refer to the "Marxist pope" and have taken to describing Xlinton as "Democrat Rapist Bill Clinton". And your former governor is called "Bloated RINO Chris Christie". They're a fun-loving bunch. LOL]
Checked out the site, love it. Thanks for the link. (Yeah, I like it's caricatured embellishment of Christie, Bubba, and the usual cast of political cartoon characters.)
Checked out the site, love it. Thanks for the link. (Yeah, I like it's caricatured embellishment of Christie, Bubba, and the usual cast of political cartoon characters.)
Most days, it is delightfully mean-spirited. It's a Drudge wannabe but I got tired of Drudge. He started collecting to much info, holds some policy positions I didn't like.
Not even the sign of the Fisherman does not stand in when it's time for Americans to address our Flag! This is a national thing rather than one dealing with Christianity.
Can you kindly clarify?
Time for a civil war Where leftist heads are cracked open in order to see if there's anything inside.
We're already engaged in CW2. "The Resistance", led by Hitlery and Antifa indeed openly did declare war.
Yes, the only step NOT taken is in answering the instigation and Leftist "Resistance".
Big Picture Stuff: The PTB-Deep State have been facilitating "The Resistance" Op in an attempting to create Chaos--> Anarchy--> Martial Law situation.
