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U.S. Constitution
See other U.S. Constitution Articles

Title: Working Washington' Calls for Prosecution of Amazon.com—for Amazon's Use of Ordinary Political Tactics
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: May 16, 2018
Author: Eugene Volokh
Post Date: 2018-05-16 15:01:17 by tpaine
Keywords: None
Views: 2451
Comments: 16

'Working Washington' Calls for Prosecution of Amazon.com—for Amazon's Use of Ordinary Political Tactics

According to the group's theory, a vast range of political hardball is a crime.

Eugene Volokh|May. 9, 2018 7:52 pm

Washington law provides,

A person is guilty of intimidating a public servant [a felony] if, by use of a threat, he or she attempts to influence a public servant's vote, opinion, decision, or other official action as a public servant.

"[T]hreat" includes, alongside threats of crime and a few other kinds of conduct (such as revealing embarrassing secrets), "communicat[ing]" "the intent"

(i) To bring about or continue a strike, boycott, or other similar collective action to obtain property which is not demanded or received for the benefit of the group which the actor purports to represent; or

(j) To do any other act which is intended to harm substantially the person threatened or another with respect to his or her health, safety, business, financial condition, or personal relationships.

Now here's the theory from an open letter to Washington AG Robert Ferguson by Working Washington, a progressive advocacy group:

As you know, on May 2nd, a top Amazon executive stated the company was "putting a pause" on expansion in Seattle in an attempt to influence the city council to reject a proposed $0.26/hour tax on the largest companies in the city to address our housing and homelessness crisis. This was a clear threat by Amazon to do substantial harm to the business and financial condition of the city of Seattle if public officials did not act as they demanded.

It's the sort of thing you might expect from a subprime mob boss lording it over a company town—and that's not just a metaphor.

It's a felony under state law to threaten substantial harm to the business or financial condition of any person, corporation or unincorporated association in an attempt to influence the vote or any other official action of a public servant. We believe there is abundant evidence Amazon has broken that law, and we urge you to investigate and prosecute Amazon for this serious crime.

[The letter quotes the statute above, and adds: -EV] [Under Washington law, "person" is defined] as including corporations, which means that this law protects municipal corporations such as the City of Seattle....

Because the city budget depends in part on construction-related revenue, Amazon's "pause" was immediately and universally interpreted by politicians, journalists, and the public at large as a threat to inflict substantial harm on the business and financial conditions of the city, as well as on homeless individuals in need of services. There is certainly a possibility that the full array of impacts of any actual Amazon "pause" could also include reduced pressure on housing prices and increased opportunity for other tech companies to grow — and therefore fewer people living on the streets and a stronger and more diversified economy. However, in order to qualify as a criminal threat, the statements at issue do not need to be a threat to take action that would necessarily cause harm, they need only be statements of an intent to take action that itself reveals an intent to inflict that injury.

These facts add up to a clear violation of RCW 9A.76.180: Amazon threatened to harm substantially the business and financial condition of the corporate person of the city of Seattle in order to attempt to influence the decision of the public servants who serve on the Seattle city council.

Working Washington's theory, of course, would criminalize a vast range of ordinary political action. It would criminalize an advocacy group's threatening to boycott a city if the city council doesn't change some law that the threatener thinks unjust: After all, under that theory, threatening a city with the loss of revenue is threatening to do an act that's "intended to harm substantially ... another [person, including a city,] with respect to his or her ... business[ or] financial condition."

It would criminalize legislator A's threat to vote against a law that would benefit legislator B's constituents, unless the other legislator voted in favor of a law that would benefit legislator A's constituents.

It would criminalize an advocacy group's public statement that it would urge its members to vote against any legislator who supported some law that the advocacy group thought was oppressive. That, too, after all, would be threatening to do an act "intended to harm substantially" the legislator "with respect to his or her ... financial condition," since losing office means losing the salary that comes with it.

The list could go on.

Part of the fault here, of course, is with the Washington statute, which is written vaguely and broadly. But, as best I can tell, Washington officials have avoided this problem by reading the statute as sensibly limited by First Amendment principles, and by normal political custom: Publicly threatening to do a legal act that would legally deprive the government of revenue, as a means of trying to pressure government officials, is clearly protected by the First Amendment, and likewise for the other examples I gave; for just one of many cases on the subject, see the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals' decision in the Rick Perry prosecution. (Indeed, one could read another part of the definition of "threat" as implicitly immunizing some such threats: The statute also expressly covers threats "[t]o bring about or continue a strike, boycott, or other similar collective action to obtain property which is not demanded or received for the benefit of the group which the actor purports to represent," which might be read as implicitly excluding other threatened strikes, boycotts, or collective action—and would thus exclude from the statute Amazon's own threatened corporate action in this very controversy. But Working Washington is obviously not taking such a narrowing reading of "threat.")

Certainly left-wing advocacy groups have long used such tactics, as have businesses. This particular advocacy group, however, seems willing to demand felony prosecution for such normal political action. Its political opponents, it thinks, aren't just wrong, and don't just deserve to be taxed: They deserve to go to prison, for playing the same sort of political hardball that advocacy groups routinely play. Working Washington and many other groups like it have been all about using economic and political power to accomplish their ends (as is the norm in a democracy). But off to jail with those who similarly try to use their economic and political power to accomplish the opposite ends.

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#1. To: tpaine (#0)

Clearly unconstitutional. No case will be brought.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-05-16   16:02:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: tpaine (#0)

Certainly left-wing advocacy groups have long used such tactics, as have businesses.

It's amazing how much the far left and the far right leadersip have in common until you stop and realize they are both selfish,self-centered assholes that care nothing about nobody or anything but themselves.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2018-05-16   19:05:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Vicomte13 (#1)

Clearly unconstitutional. No case will be brought.

Good to see we agree on this issue. --- Looking forward to the day when you realize that the Constitution also protects 'sinful' women.

tpaine  posted on  2018-05-16   19:21:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: sneakypete, Y'ALL (#2)

It's amazing how much the far left and the far right leadersip have in common until you stop and realize they are both selfish,self-centered assholes that care nothing about nobody or anything but themselves.

We agree... I've been a constitutional libertarian since Goldwater, -- and the few of us that exist think that our two party system is fatally corrupted by the assholes you describe..

The problem is finding a way to change it...

tpaine  posted on  2018-05-16   19:30:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: tpaine (#3)

The Constitution protects whomever the authorities constituted beneath it choose to protect. And it doesn’t protect whomever they choose to leave unprotected, or to persecute. You speak of it the way Protestants speak of the Bible. It ain’t all that.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-05-16   19:57:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: tpaine (#4)

The way you “change it”, is by finding reasonable things that make large numbers of people agree, follow, and in to protect their gain. Example: Social Security. Impossible to uproot now. Too many people have bought into it too completely.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-05-16   20:15:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Vicomte13 (#5)

Vicomte13 (#1) ---- Clearly unconstitutional. No case will be brought.

Good to see we agree on this issue. --- Looking forward to the day when you realize that the Constitution also protects 'sinful' women. ---- tpaine

The Constitution protects whomever the authorities constituted beneath it choose to protect. And it doesn’t protect whomever they choose to leave unprotected, or to persecute. You speak of it the way Protestants speak of the Bible. It ain’t all that. ---- Vicomte13

I'm not defending our Constitution as holy writ, I'm defending it as a man made compilation of the finest way to run a republic the world has known, to date..

-- Its amenable, but it's first ten amendments, on individual rights, cannot be infringed upon by "authorities", States, local or federal gov'ts.. --- For some strange reason, you oppose these truths, --- even tho, (as a lawyer and military officer) you've sworn an oath to uphold and honor the document..

For shame..

tpaine  posted on  2018-05-16   20:58:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Vicomte13 (#6)

I've been a constitutional libertarian since Goldwater, -- and the few of us that exist think that our two party system is fatally corrupted by the assholes Pete describes.

The problem is finding a way to change it... ---- tpaine

The way you “change it”, is by finding reasonable things that make large numbers of people agree, follow, and in to protect their gain. ---------- Example: Social Security. Impossible to uproot now. Too many people have bought into it too completely. ---- ,Vic

Pete and I were bitching about the political party system, not social welfare systems...

tpaine  posted on  2018-05-16   21:07:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: tpaine (#4)

The problem is finding a way to change it...

No,the problem is finding a PEACEFUL way to change it. We all know how to stop it.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2018-05-16   22:28:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: tpaine, Vicomte13 (#8)

Pete and I were bitching about the political party system, not social welfare systems...

NO organization or group are any better or more moral than the people heading it up,and in almost every case you can think of those are always the most cynical and least moral people that can be found. The reason for this is it takes blind ambition and a willingness to do ANYTHING to get ahead to float to the top of any political cesspool. The meek and the mild need not apply.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2018-05-16   22:33:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: tpaine (#8)

Pete and I were bitching about the political party system, not social welfare systems...

Social welfare systems are an integral element of the political system. FDR was elected to implement them, and he did. The purpose of the Democratic Party, then, became to protect and extend those benefits, and their voters remained loyal to them precisely BECAUSE the Democrats reliably protect benefits, while the Republicans reliably aimed to cut them.

Thus the Republicans went from being the long-dominant majority party from the Civil War to the Great Depression, to the minority party thereafter. Social welfare and social liberty issues are THE honey that keeps the Democratic voters in the hive.

Republicans have the problem that they have cobbled together various groups with little in common other than their dislike for Democrats and liberals: downscale religious voters, gun nuts and the capitalist rich really don't have anything in common. And that makes for a fissiparous voting base.

Example: you and I both vote Republican, probably pretty consistently. So does A K A Stone. It's fair to say that the three of us see eye-to-eye on very little.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-05-16   22:39:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: sneakypete (#10)

The Democrats have a powerful innate moral advantage because they take the political side of the poor, the weak and the underdog. This puts them, at least cosmetically, on the side of the traditional charitable religious instincts.

Republicans start out at a disadvantage. Of course, Republicans don't have to cede the battlefield of the allegiance of the poor, they CHOOSE to.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-05-16   22:42:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Vicomte13 (#11)

Republicans have the problem that they have cobbled together various groups with little in common other than their dislike for Democrats and liberals: downscale religious voters, gun nuts and the capitalist rich really don't have anything in common. And that makes for a fissiparous voting base.

Example: you and I both vote Republican, probably pretty consistently. So does A K A Stone. It's fair to say that the three of us see eye-to-eye on very little.

Pete and I were bitching about the political party system, not social welfare systems...

And true enough you, stone and I have little in common.

I'm not a religious voter, like you two, but I am a gun nut, and most of my friends are 'capitalist rich' so I guess that makes me part of the fissiparous voting base. -- Whatever in hell that means...

tpaine  posted on  2018-05-17   0:01:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Vicomte13 (#11)

Republicans have the problem that they have cobbled together various groups with little in common other than their dislike for Democrats and liberals: downscale religious voters, gun nuts and the capitalist rich really don't have anything in common.

The one thing we all have in common is we are independent voters,not herd voters.

Independent voters tend to be independent,not clannish.

None of this has anything to do with Bush-Bots or any other RINO groupies.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2018-05-17   12:18:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Vicomte13 (#12)

Republicans start out at a disadvantage. Of course, Republicans don't have to cede the battlefield of the allegiance of the poor, they CHOOSE to.

You are right. If they had any balls at all they would DEMAND an end to government welfare payments of all types,and DEMAND that organized religion either take up the slack or lose their tax-free status as well as their preferences when it comes to handing out goobermint contracts to "provide fo de po".

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2018-05-17   12:20:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: sneakypete (#15)

You are right. If they had any balls at all they would DEMAND an end to government welfare payments of all types,and DEMAND that organized religion either take up the slack or lose their tax-free status as well as their preferences when it comes to handing out goobermint contracts to "provide fo de po".

I look over the scope of history and know that private charity and religion cannot cover the needs: they are too great. The state must be the primary provider of direct poverty relief, universal education, and health care for the poor, also roads and rail infrastructure, law enforcement and the military.

Those things cost vast sums of money and require coordination and effort at a level surpassing all possible profit, and are pure burdens. Private enterprise is not in business to bear burdens without profit. Therefore, if the burdens are to be alleviated, as they must be in a good society, the state has to do it, and the reason the state has to do it because raising the assets requires a degree of coercion that only the state can apply. People will not voluntarily give enough to do what is necessary, so they have to be forced to at the point of a gun (ultimately). Only the state can do that legally and on a grand universal scale.

For that very reason, libertarians object. I understand why they object, but in my opinion, alleviating the suffering of the poor is more important than pleasing libertarian ideology, so I am willing to point the gun and make the libertarians pony up also, against their will and contrary to their philosophy.

I'm not a Communist or a Socialist - I don't want to take it ALL or control it ALL. But I am going to make sure that the state takes ENOUGH to deal with the crisis. It would be best if everybody was a Christian and paid without complaint. But they're not, so they have to be force, and that's just the way the cookie crumbles.

For my part, I try to make people feel better about it, by reminding them of Christ, and how we are making things better for a lot of people. But some people are just absolutely butt hurt about giving up anything, and others really hate the poor for a variety of pathological reasons. So I try to be charitable and kind, but in the end it has to be done, just like we need laws and a military, and ultimately if people will not yield to that reality, then I say fuck 'em, point the gun, and make them do it. I wish we didn't have to, but a tour around this place with its personalities makes it clear that there are unappeasables who have simply have to be coerced by deadly force, because they can't be convinced.

I'm that way too, about some things. Certainly if taxes were completely voluntary, for example, I would not pay any. I would give more to charity, but not NEARLY as much as I pay in taxes. I have to be coerced too, and that's fine - as long as everybody else is also being coerced to eat our vegetables.

What I STRONLY resent is the rich getting a pass on being coerced. I'm not a Communist or a Socialist - I don't want to take everything they have - but I DO want them coerced to exactly the same extent that I am, which would mean what they actually pay would about triple, relative to what they have. Our current system is horribly skewed, and I resent that on Christian grounds, not Communist ones.

Oh, and I know that some people who call themselves "Christians" disagree with me on state poverty relief. I've listened to them. They don't actually listen to their own Savior, and they ignore their YHWH and their Bible. They're just petty and greedy. I hear them. I hear their insults, and I write down their Christianity as it is, as the inevitable result of the heresies that they follow. Of course people who don't stick with the truth will end up following the Devil. That's the way it is.

They hate me completely, and I've come to not like them very much either. And that is yet another reason why the Church cannot provide adequate poverty relief in America and the state has to, by forced taxes and redistribution. Because a lot of American Christianity is rotten at the head and despises the poor. THEY will never get it done. So they have to be compelled - at the point of a gun (just like me) to pay taxes to get it done. They grump about God, but they don't know him. I do, and he doesn't resemble the God they believe in.

Just being completely honest. I've given up on trying to conciliate - it accomplishes nothing on a website like this.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-05-17   14:46:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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