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Title: Germany’s Typhoon problem: Only four fighters can be made combat ready [also tanks, ships, subs, copters]
Source:
ArsTechnica
URL Source: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy ... at-ready/?comments=1&start=120
Published: May 15, 2018
Author: Sean Gallagher
Post Date: 2018-05-16 02:50:28 by Tooconservative
Keywords: None
Views: 10503
Comments: 81
If you thought the US Department of Defense's procurement adventures with the F-35 and other big-budget weapons systems are bad, you might want to check out what's going on in Europe, where defense procurement battles have left most of the German Luftwaffe grounded for lack of parts. Last week, at the annual Charlemagne Prize ceremony in Aachen, Germany—in which French President Emmanuel Macron was recognized for his efforts on behalf of European unity—German Prime Minister Angela Merkel pronounced that Europe could no longer depend on the United States for its protection. "Europe has to take its destiny into its own hands," Merkel said. "That is the task of the future." Merkel has given this message before. But if Europe is to take its destiny into its own hands any time soon, Germany has a lot of work to do—the Bundeswehr, Germany's defense ministry, is suffering from multiple readiness crises in a culmination of years of cost-shaving and poor management decisions. And the latest symptom to emerge of that crisis is the dwindling number of actually functional fighter jets that the Luftwaffe, Germany's air force, can actually call combat ready. For the Eurofighter Typhoon, Germany's main fighter aircraft, that number is four—out of a total of 128. According to a report in Der Spiegel, the Bundeswehr has claimed in an official report to the Bundestag (Germany's legislature) that 39 Typhoon fighters were designated as ready for missions last year. But that report named any aircraft that was capable of flying as being "ready." In fact, only 10 aircraft currently have all their systems functioning, because of a problem that has plagued the defensive aid subsystem (DASS) of Germany's version of the Typhoon. One component of the DASS is a wing pod that contains the aircraft's electronic countermeasures (ECM) equipment—its gear for jamming the radar of incoming missiles—and parts of the aircraft's electronic support measure systems, which include radar lock warning and target identification. During the development of the Typhoon, Germany decided to break off from the Eurofighter consortium and fund the development of a domestically built DASS by Daimler Aerospace (DASA). Eventually Germany re-entered the fold, and DASA was absorbed into the European defense conglomerate EADS. But the money-saving maneuvering has continued, as the Bundestag strove to reduce stock in repair parts and opt for "just-in-time" ordering. Unfortunately, the DASS pods on Germany's Typhoons have been failing because of coolant leaks. And the supplier for the part needed to repair the leak is no longer in business. As the rest of Eurofighters' customers are upgrading their DASS systems to the Praetorian DASS from the Italian defense company Leonardo, the factory for the part was sold—and Germany, which did not opt for the upgrade, is now left without a supplier. Cost-cutting procurement strategies have caused problems elsewhere over the past year for the Bundeswehr: The only saving grace for the Bundeswehr is that with the wind-down of NATO support in Afghanistan, there's no immediate combat mission for the German military. And as Der Spiegel's Matthias Gebauer was told by a Bundeswehr source, "We can say with a good conscience that large parts of the [German armed forces] are mission ready, because there is currently no mission."
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#1. To: Tooconservative (#0)
Germany doesn't need an army at all. France, England and the United States have nuclear weapons, and the Russians don't have the armed strength to get across Poland against US, Polish and NATO resistance. And given that nuclear weapons mean that Russia can't attack Germany (or vice versa) anyway, why throw all that money down a rathole? Abolish the military and be done with it. What good does the German army do for anybody? It's an expensive white elephant.
It allows the Germans in general,and the German political leadership (?) specifically to pretend they really ARE an independent nation and in charge of their own destiny, Take it away and they would have to quit pretending and admit they are nothing more than a cog in the Borg.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
Then we need no armies at all, do we? Navies? Piffle. We'll just nuke everybody as a standard response to anything. What if we're not willing to nuke humanity and civilization when some nuclear-armed aggressor like Iran or North Korea starts carving up Europe or Asia or the Mideast? The Soviets were never all that afraid of our nukes, you know. The Soviet archives reveal that they took nuclear exchanges as a given in a war with America. Other hardnosed opponents will do the same. We can threaten all we want but don't be so sure we're willing to ignite a world holocaust just because Russia takes Finland. Or Sweden and Norway. Or the Baltics. Or all of them.
I heard the Pope asking the other day, “How many divisions does Germany have?”
I didn't say WE didn't need armies. WE are Rome, the world empire. WE need conventional forces to protect and expand that empire. GERMANY doesn't need an army, and if I were German, I'd be clamoring to save all of that money and pay off the national debt.
Okay, that's genuinely witty. Best I've seen on LF in some time. You win. What exactly, I don't know.
Thank you. Thank you. I'm here all week.
And the payoff for the American working class who will have to fight and die for the privilege of defending the EU and other lazy cowardly countries that pretend to be our allies? Why should any of us agree to that? Carnegie Europe: NATO’s European Allies Won’t Fight for Article 5 The respondents from these countries were asked about Ukraine and Russia. Few surprises here. Across all eight nations, a median of 70 percent supported sending economic aid to Ukraine, and 57 percent backed Ukraine joining NATO—although Germany and Italy came out strongly against, with respectively only 36 percent and 35 percent of respondents in favor. On average, 41 percent of all those surveyed supported sending arms to Ukraine, and 50 percent favored Ukraine joining the EU. But when it came to committing to upholding Article 5—the alliance’s sacred cow, which requires NATO members to defend an ally if it is attacked—the results were devastating. The Pew poll showed that among Europeans, a median of 49 percent of respondents thought their country should not defend an ally, a response that exposes a lack of commitment to collective defense. Not only that: the majority of Europeans (67 percent), with the surprising exception of the Poles (49 percent), believed the United States would come to the defense of its allies. Despite war-weariness in the United States and Canada, these are the two countries that are willing to use force if Russia attacks a NATO ally. That was the view of 56 percent of Americans and 53 percent of Canadians. The United States is also proposing to store heavy weapons and equipment for up to 5,000 troops in Eastern Europe. What a commitment to NATO and to Europe. Of the Europeans polled, the Brits were the most in favor of the use of force to defend their allies (49 percent). As for the Poles, of whom a whopping 70 percent saw Russia as a major military threat to neighboring countries, only 48 percent of those surveyed supported military action in case of an attack. . . . That aside, the biggest response against using force against Russia came from Germany. Only 38 percent of Germans, the lowest score among the eight NATO allies polled, would use force to defend an ally. This seems to jar with Germany’s decision to become involved in training exercises in Poland. Germany has joined NATO’s Very High Readiness Joint Task Force, a spearhead force created in September 2014 that is to be deployed to Eastern Europe. Berlin intends to send 1,000 troops to a 5,000-strong brigade. Prior to its agreement to participate in this operation, Germany had opposed NATO deploying permanent bases in Eastern Europe. Maybe this is a compensation gesture. So it is the job of American boys to die for Europe with possibly some Canucks thrown in to help a little, mostly if England is under threat. We don't have allies. We have military dependents. They're almost entirely worthless. We need to cut them loose if they will not accept and fulfill their treaty obligations. If they don't want defense, there is no rational reason why we should foot the bill for defending them. Let them deal with Russia on their own. Let them deal with Turkey, another alleged NATO ally, deliberately unleashing waves of Third Worlders to live off EU social welfare and establish lawless ghettos and pockets of totalitarian sympathies throughout the rotten EU domain. But don't you dare ask us to clean up their EU mess when it all turns to shite. Again.
This is where your argument collapses. Nobody is dying for Europe. Nobody has died for Europe since 1949 when the Werewolves were finally defeated. Russia has no forces capable of seriously threatening Europe, and there are two nuclear powers in Europe that are fully capable of destroying Russia, if need be. Europe is under zero credible external military threat, and hasn't been since the fall of the USSR three decades ago. Americans are not dying to protect Europe. At all. There is no risk of that This is all about preening, perception, defense contracts and the politics of who is boss. It is NOT actually about any real threat to American or European lives. There is none that requires US forces there. We WANT to be there because of the political power it gives us, and because of the defense contracts that flow from it. THAT is the game. Dying for Europe? Nobody is at any real risk of doing that. At all.
Then get rid of NATO entirely. It is an unfunded liability for America.
It's not really a liability. It's a tremendous political and economic asset. Yes, sure, we spend money putting forces there. Truth is, that money we spend goes to defense contractors, which boosts employment and the economy. Military jobs are decent wage jobs with benefits. They boost employment. Maintaining a big heavy military footprint all over the world keep employment numbers high, improves the education statistics of the nation, reduces crime at home in a couple of ways, prepares a lot of kids for the workforce and pumps up tax revenues and the science and engineering economy as all of those hundreds of billions flow into US defense contracts. Slash the military as much as I have talked about, and you'll end up shrinking the US GDP and increasing the welfare payments to the unemployed by more than you actually save in tax dollars, and you'll have a lower-educated workforce and a lot more crime: idle hands are the Devil's workshop. Also, NATO places America in supreme command over Europe. The Europeans will accept that. They WON'T accept some other European - a domestic political rival within the EU - in command over them. And non-EU countries such as Norway will ally with the US, for security reasons, but they won't join the EU, for sovereignty reasons. NATO gives the Europeans a multilateral agency besides the EU to push off of. Eastern Europe, for example, balks at EU immigration policy. And they still fear Russia. They view the EU as perhaps helping their economic future, but they don't trust the French and Germans who run it. They view the US as the guarantor of their national security, and they DO trust the United States to be there much more than they trust Berlin or Paris or London to act in their interests. Remember, the US has no seat at the table in the EU, but the whole Greek situation was substantially moderated, with the US in the role of blowing cold wind on the German fire to EXTRACT things from Greece. Because Greece could always bolt the EU and get money by letting the Russians use bases there. Greece (or Turkey) could really mess up the European strategic picture, but people with poor strategic reasoning skills like the Germans are perfectly willing to reduce Mediterranean security in order to extract Euros out of deadbeats. The USA had a firm behind the scenes hand on making sure that the other Europeans remember that their national security is more important than preventing German bankers and taxpayers from taking some losses. In a similar vein, when the British Parliament was twisting with outrage over Iceland's effective cancellation of British bank debt, ominously rumbling about retaliation against Iceland, the fact that Iceland is a fundamental link in NATO defense didn't matter to British bankers, but it DID matter to American policymakers. Having the huge defense presence over there puts American military and intelligence in the heart of every European capital, and gives us a great deal of fine internal control over what goes on. Truth is, the Europeans, grosso modo, don't want us to leave, and it's not in our economic or security interests to do so. A Europe that does not rely on us for its defense and for the defense of its supply lines is a Europe that can act against our interests in dealing with Israel or China or Iran. Right now we see the utility of these things. The Europeans WANT to maintain the cushy deals with Iran. But the USA says so, and so Europe has to adjust. Has to. That's because we're over there in force, and that gives us tremendous power over European decision making. The Empire, gross modo, has made the USA stronger, richer and more dominant - to our benefit, not our detriment. Although I have mused in the past about cutting it and returning home like an isolationist of old, I've thought it through again and again and realized that dog don't hunt. The NATO Alliance is the crown jewel of our world empire. It keeps the peace, and it keeps us in charge of Europe and its littoral. That ends up being worth a lot more to us in GDP, taxes, employment , and peace dividend, than any dollars we'd save by pulling out our forces.
Hooey. None of that is true.
We need conventional forces so we don't have to use them. Cheaper to project a credible threat than to actually fight a war.
It's completely true. Isolationism is why we had to lose three quarters of a million American lives and half of Europe in World War II. We pretended that we are not our brother's keeper. We were as wrong as Cain on that score. The Paleo-Conservative wants to retreat into isolation again. Failed the first time. Would fail again, if we ever were foolish enough to go that way. But we're not. FDR, Truman, Ike, JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, W, Obama and Trump were all very different men, with very different concepts of governance, but they ALL agreed that America needs to first and foremost a military superpower, very present in the world, containing evil and protecting the free. Paleo-Conservatives like you don't agree with Realists like me on this subject at all.
Ike sensibly opposed any expansion of NATO and wanted to withdraw from Europe entirely.
He didn't think that with strong enough conviction to actually DO it, because he saw full well what would happen if we withdrew from Europe. Sure, it would be great if we could just come back home and save all of that money. I've thought that myself for years, and Ike was coming from most of a lifetime in which the American desire was very much to not be "over there". We were dragged into World War II against our will. Remember, please, the Russia tried to join NATO in 1954, to be part of the efforts to preserve the peace in Europe. Instead, we admitted West Germany, in 1955, which promptly triggered Russia to form the Warsaw Pact. All of this happened under Eisenhower. So sure, "expansion" of NATO to include the USSR was nixed by Ike, but it was Ike who added West Germany to the mix, with the Warsaw Pact forming in reaction. Ike may have wanted to be a Paleo-Conservative, but he wasn't stupid so he didn't ultimately act on those isolationist instincts. He did what was necessary, which was to keep the USA widely engaged in the world. Yes, he bemoaned the dangers of the "military-industrial complex", and he was certainly correct about some of those dangers. The alternative was letting the Communists sweep most of the world, and eventually become dominant politically in America. Should we have? Paleos would assert that was not really the choice, but I think they are naive about that and wrong.
I wouldn't cut it all. However, the rising debt crisis makes that more and more inevitable and painful. I think we should focus on naval and air power and we should mostly move our forces out of Europe. If they don't want to defend it, why should we? And they can rely on France and Britain to nuke Russia if Vlad conquers the Baltics and the eastern half of Ukraine on some sunny afternoon, right?
You see, French and Germans already paid their dues in 1812 and 1941 on the Eastern Front, they remember it well and painfully. It is time for the others to go there.
I nominate the Poles.
I think we should focus on naval and air power and we should mostly move our forces out of Europe. If they don't want to defend it, why should we? And they can rely on France and Britain to nuke Russia if Vlad conquers the Baltics and the eastern half of Ukraine on some sunny afternoon, right? Sure. To stop the debt crisis, simply raise the taxes on the rich so that they pay the same proportion of their gross wealth that the middle class do. That's it. That's all. The middle class in America does not collapse under its tax burden. The rich would not either. But the rich don't pay taxes anywhere near what the middle class do, as a proportion of their wealth. They should. Most of the wealth of the middle class is held in their homes, cars, boats, some planes. And all of that is taxes annually. Also, the transfer of such things is taxed, and the energy to power those things is taxed. The middle class are taxed four times on their income: three federal taxes (social security, medicare, income) and by their states. Most of their wealth goes into housing. The very rich hold most of their property as securities, which are not taxed. Houses, cars and boats are taxed, but securities are not. Securities are only taxed when they give off dividends (which are taxed by one federal tax, at a much lower rate than the middle class income taxes), or when they are sold. Loans are not taxed, and the rich use "the trick" of pledging securities as collateral to get loans, which is untaxed income, while keeping ownership. And if they reinvest the loans in more securities, they deduct the interest on the loan from their income. And then of course there are the private "charitable" foundations, that allow wealth to pass from generation to generation untaxed, subject only to extremely modest Potemkin-village style paperwork oversight. If the tax system were restructured to tax the wealthy the same percentage of their overall wealth that the middle class pay every year, we would run a significant budget surplus at current rates of expenditure and be able to pay off the national debt within a reasonable number of years. Of course, we COULD also decide to take much longer to pay down the national debt, adjust the middle class taxation downwards and the taxes of the wealthy upwards to meet.
I nominate the Chinese and the Altaic Turkics.
Most of the hole in the federal budget is due to the cap on SS taxes. It should be at least 10 times higher than it is or perhaps just unlimited. You could argue for this better when inheritance taxes were insanely high but that hasn't been the case for decades. You should browse through that Atlantic piece I put up. Very long but it has the appeal of being a comprehensive picture. And his argument is that the tycoons are only the targets of the Bernie bros and that the real inequality of wealth and use of lobbyists, education, home ownership accrue to people who are not the middle class but like to pretend they are. The top 10% has benefited far more overall than the tycoons have with their .1% of all wealth. I smiled when I noticed that fencing was mentioned. : )
I know, but spare them please. But they did it already TWICE, together with Napoleon in 1812. And on their own in 1612. It is turn for you. 1812 1611/1612 BTW, British ingrates allied with Ruskies in 1812/1814 and did this in Washington DC:
Europe's history is too depressing to review. And all that crappy artwork you EUros keep around just reminds you of it all.
The last is American (Washington DC)
Let's be fair,here. The sad,sad truth is that there are damn few genetic Germans left. Most bled out in WW-1 or WW-2,leaving their women to be impregnated by Slavs,French,English,and American occupation forces. Now they are even importing hordes of Muslims to take over,thinking they will do the menial work and pay the taxes to allow them to retire in comfort. It's enough to make you think most post-WW-1 and WW-2 German women were impregnated by Frenchmen.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
BINGO! And it is the political power that provides the defense contract that provide the "Benjamins" that keep the uber wealthy in bodyguards and villas. It's ALWAYS about the money. ALWAYS.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
Right back atcha. It's ALL true to one degree or another. You need to get over the thinking that tells you that anything you don't like is untrue. It just ain't so. You also need to come to understand that NOTHING is either all good or all bad. There is good and bad in everything. The secret is to find the "Sweet spot" where the bad from YOUR POV is outweighed by the good from YOUR POV. Yeah,sometimes you really have to look hard to find it. Nobody but lairs or fools ever said life would be easy.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
The last and only time when racial purity was preached in Poland was under German occupation.
The thing is the typical European never sees our Naval or Air Power,and when they do see it,it just doesn't register as being foreign because their native nations use our designs. They DO see and register military bases and the soldiers and airmen wandering around in their towns when off-duty,though. Even if it is at a sub-conscious level to most of them,it has an impact.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
WRONG! It is time for NO ONE to go there,and if it DOES have to be someone,it should be the locals that do the most fighting and dying. We ain't your daddy,bubba!
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
Yes,but at a MUCH lower rate if owned by a trust fund or corporation. They are even used to depreciate the taxable base of corporate assets.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
There is no such thing as racial purity in reality. Maybe there was in China when it was a sealed off police state,but that's about it. However,there IS such a thing as CULTURAL purity. Don't believe it's important or doesn't exist? Go to your local Mosque and inquire within.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
Nazis were also talking about cultural purity. They even divided science of physics into German and Jewish. Problems that those who are so obsessed about purity, know little about genetics or physics. Perhaps they are mongrels? ;)
So what? They even divided science of physics into German and Jewish. While conveniently ignoring the FACT that many Germans were also Jewish.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
Yes. There should be no cap on Social Security taxes. They are a completely regressive tax on income alone. The ideal tax code would be this: Scrap the social security tax completely, and scrap the Medicare tax, and scrap the AMT, and scrap the capital gains tax, and scrap the inheritance tax, scrap the dividends tax. These are all alternative forms of the income tax. Social Security is a pure wage tax. So is the Medicare tax. The AMT is another form of income tax. Capital gains are simply another form of income. The dead should not pay taxes on their estates. The living who get the money should pay taxes on what they get from the dead, because that's INCOME, and it should be taxed like any other income. Ditto for gifts. Gifts are income, and they should be taxable to the recipient, not the giver. The forgiveness of debt is INCOME to the recipient, and is already taxed as such. That should not change. Roll all of those things and make a graduated, progressive income tax, without specific deductions - no mortgage deductions, no state tax deductions, no interest deductions. Businesses are permitted to deduct the costs of operating from their taxes. Individuals should, likewise, be able to deduct the cost of living from theirs. We already have this in the form of standard deductions and personal exemptions. Individuals should get the deductions and exemptions on a per-capita basis, and it should be calibrated to do for individuals exactly the same thing that business deductions do for businesses. So, sweep away the deductions and the exceptions, eliminate multiple forms of taxation, and have ONE income tax that captures all forms of income. Corporation taxes are a special case. That leaves property taxes and sales taxes. All property should be taxed at a uniform low rate. Some property, such as houses, cars, planes, boats, securities and bank accounts are easily tracked and easily valued and taxed. And should be. Houses are taxed at about 1.75% nationwide. So, then, should all securities portfolios. If that rate is too high, then lower the property tax across the board to, say 1%. This is, effectively, a gross wealth tax because it taxes the value of most forms of property. Certain forms of wealth are harder to trace: jewelry, gold bullion, artwork. But they're not all THAT hard to trace, because people who have such things insure them. The value of property insurance should be taxed at the same rate as property (though that which is already covered should not be taxed twice). There should be an exemption for personalty - clothes, books, basic furniture - so that accounting for these things don't drive us mad. Finally, sales. If we are going to tax sales at all, then the tax should be consistent. We should not have all sorts of exceptions and exemptions. People should not be manipulated by the tax code. Right now, we do not tax the sales of securities, which are the largest transactions in our economy. If we're going to tax sales at all, we should tax those. If we tax the sales of securities at 1%, that will generate huge amounts of revenue, such that we can reduce the sales taxes of everything else down from the current 5 or 6 or 7% down to the 1% or so. The one exception to the standard sales taxes should be on those particular substances that cause such tremendous health nightmares: tobacco, alcohol and, where legal, drugs. There. That is a very clean system - all income of whatever sort: one tax. All property: one tax. All transactions: one tax. The corporations tax is a special case we can explore further, if you're interested. And the question of who is tax exempt is also of interest. Notably: should charities or churches be tax exempt? Should there be such a thing as "tax free municipal bonds"? Should private charities be tax exempt? Should there be tax deductions for charitable giving? Note that what goes away with all of this are all of the tax credit schemes, all of the "incentive" schemes. A dollar is a dollar, and you pay the tax rate on that dollar. Dollars inherited, earned as wages, earned as dividends, won in the lottery, earned as capital gains on sale - they're all taxed the same. Should the code be progressive? That's a political choice. The simplest would be no progressivity - everybody pays, say, 15%, but a per capita standard deduction of "x". Sales tax is low, but covers the whole economy. Our economy is $19 trillion. The sales tax would bring in $190 billion a year at 1%. $380 billion a year at 2%. $1.12 billion at 3% Property tax is low but universal. Note that property tax on homes is not a NET tax but a gross tax. So it should be on all property. Total gross private wealth per capita in the US in 2017 was $120 trillion. Giving everybody a $40,000 personal wealth exemption (for clothes, books, furniture), would mean $348,585 of taxable wealth per person. 1% tax would bring in $1.2 trillion. 2% tax would bring in $2.4 trillion So, if we set the sales tax at 3% and the property tax at 2%, we're bringing in $3.52 trillion Total federal, state and local expenditures in 2018 will be $7.1 trillion, so we need to bring in $3.48 trillion more in income tax (we are disregarding the corporation tax) to get to the $7.1 trillion current expenditures so that our budget is balanced (which would mean we gradually pay off debt. US GDP is about $19 trillion. So, we need 49% of it - a 49% tax - to cover those expenses. Of course, that tax could be partially covered by corporations and churches and other organizations. That is certainly painful. Defense spending is only 12% of that total (Health, at 22%, followed by Pensions, at 19%, then Education, at 15%, are the three larger portions. Truth is, if we cut defense to zero, we'd STILL have to have high taxes to get out of our hole. And no, if we slash taxes to the bone, we're not going to get the sort of GDP growth that will let us get out from the accelerating debt curve due to increasing income payments. Simply put: we have to tax more of the wealth of the wealthy. We ALREADY tax the wealth of the middle class to a very great extent. Consider my case. I pay 14.6% of my gross wealth each year in taxes. Based on what is known of him, Bill Gates pays less than 5%. For Bill Gates to be taxed the same as me, his taxes should triple. And for us to not end up in a national debt crisis, both he and I, and everybody else, have to pay more than we're already paying.
Not exactly. They rejected relativity theory for that reason and were sympathetic to quantum mechanics. But to comfort you, I also prefer quantum mechanics.
We have a checkered military record, but we're really, REALLY good at THAT.
Here is how Germans were forming the image in Polish minds of coming Red Army soldiers. Still persists.
Find some German propaganda about the French.
Yes, but to be fair, as a member of the American occupation forces, I must admit it was not sad at all. We saw our duty to the women of Germany, and did it, --- happily... And, -- we were much better at it than the rest, especially the french..
That's French fascist propaganda. I'm asking for German propaganda that is aimed at motivating the Germans to fight the French. I like that the 1941 Vichy poster names de Gaulle, alongside of "The Jew", "The Lie" and "Free-Masonry" as the enemy of the new French people who want these antagonists to "Leave us be!" as they plant their new seedling fascist state. Awwww. De Gaulle grated on everybody's nerves - his commanders before the war, the Germans, the Vichy French, the British, the Americans, the Soviets, the French Right, the French Left, the French students - he was an immensely irritating man, because he had a habit of winning the day and not letting anybody get anything over on him and his idea of "Deep France" - "la France profonde". Even his symbology - the Cross of Lorraine, which was, of course, the homeland of Joan of Arc and all that meant against, well, everybody who wasn't French, including the French on the wrong side! Richard Nixon's assessment of de Gaulle: "He was stubborn, wilfull, supremely self-confident, a man of enormous ego and yet at the same time enormous selflessness: He was demanding not for himself but for France. He lived simply but dreamed grandly. He acted a part, playing a role he created in a way that fit only one actor. Even more he fashioned himself so he could play it. He created de Gaulle, the public person, to play the role of de Gaulle, the personification of France." So, find me some German anti-French propaganda. It's a tough thing to you, you'll find. The Germans, like the English and the Dutch, and the Americans have always been immensely conflicted about France. The Germans have always though the best life "Wie die Lieber Gott im Frankreich" - to live like God in France. My take on it: France is what happens when Ireland wins the lottery. The French are Celts - France is a giant Ireland = and the Celtic character is both jovial and combative, at the same time. The Irish and Scots were always poor, but France is insanely rich land - the world's best garden - and so the French have always been well fed, well-drunk, oversexed, and luxurious. And they've had the money to lavish on things they like, and they're all individualistic, so they like so many things. I'm feeling Gaullish today. Some quotes: "Let us be firm, pure and faithful; at the end of our sorrow, there is the greatest glory of the world, that of the men who did not give in." Said in July, 1944, to refuse to open the windows to acknowledge the crowd celebrating the re-establishment of the French Republic: "It is unnecessary, for the Republic has never ceased to exist. I was the Republic." "Politics, when it is an art and a service, not an exploitation, is about acting for an ideal through realities." "No policy is worth anything outside of reality." "Of course one can jump up and down yelling Europe! Europe! Europe! But it amounts to nothing and it means nothing." "Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first." "France was built with swords. The fleur-de-lis, symbol of national unity, is only the image of a spear with three pikes." "The desire of privilege and the taste of equality are the dominant and contradictory passions of the French of all times." "Within ten years, we shall have the means to kill 80 million Russians. I truly believe that one does not light-heartedly attack people who are able to kill 80 million Russians, even if one can kill 800 million French, that is if there were 800 million French." "I am not ill. But do not worry, one day, I will certainly die." "Why do you think that at 67 I would start a career as a dictator?" "How can you govern a country which has two hundred and forty-six varieties of cheese?"
He sure didn't show it during the Hungarian uprising. --- He had the 503rd on full alert for 3 days, on the tarmac at Munich, --- ready to go into Budapest.
To be fair to them, they were just arrogant and unprepared. The Germans laughed at them. They flew over or marched around the Maginot line. They never saw it coming.
“If I regard de Gaulle as a great man? He is selfish, he is arrogant, he believes he is the center of the world. He . . . You are quite right. He is a great man." - Winston Churchill
They knew it was coming. Almost a year passed between Poland and the attack on France..
Almost a year passed between Poland and the attack on France.. All i am saying is that they never expected the Germans to prevail. They didn't know they were unprotected for what was to happen.
I don't disagree. The tax structure is chock full of dodges and handouts. It is not something that can be done for the non-billionaires. The picture of the oncoming permanent debt crisis is not cheerful. What is needed is an effort to cut administrative costs across the federal and state governments. Salaries of federal employees should more closely match comparable jobs in the private sector. These problems could be solved but they have unpleasant consequences that the pols don't like.
I tried. I could not find any. Perhaps you will be more lucky. One Polish political science and philosophy professor (that I know personally), claims that France is the perfect state. No matter who would win the WWII, French would be on the winning side ;) It takes a lot of wit! And Paris survived intact not like Warsaw. He wants Poles to be more prudent.
It still persists for damn good reasons.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
Hungary was a defeated and occupied ally of Third Reich. They were very brave, tougher than Germans, a tiny country lost hundreds of thousands of soldiers on the Eastern Front. The most at Stalingrad. In 1950s it was not possible to side with them. The memory of war was too fresh.
Kindred souls. I love one Churchill's saying "Don't interrupt me, when I interrupt you". I use it sometimes.
Yes, but to be fair, as a member of the American occupation forces, I must admit it was not sad at all. We saw our duty to the women of Germany, and did it, --- happily... And, -- we were much better at it than the rest, especially the french.. One of my mother's cousins married a homeless German woman who was the last surviving member of her family while he was a MP with the occupation forces in Berlin right after WW-2. She was not only German,but was also a Jew who had nothing. Then sometime in the 60's the land and other property her family owned that had been seized first by the Germans and later by the Allied Forces were returned to her as the only heir,and she was worth millions. They spent the rest of their lives living in motels and following the horse races. They even owned race horses. She sold it all because she never wanted to set foot in Germany again or to be reminded of what she had lost. One other German that I knew and was friends with was a member of the Hitler Youth. His father,uncles,and all male members of his family had been German military officers for generations. After his father and all his other male relatives were killed in Russia his mother enrolled him in the Hitler Youth to protect him from being drafted. The Nazi's were drafting children by that time and sending their out to the front lines to fight,but they weren't willing to waste their future officer cadre,so Hitler Youth members got to stay at home and in school. He told me he remembers standing along the street and giving Hitler the Nazi salute as he passed by in parades. His mother and the remainder of his family were killed in the allied bombing raids at the end of the war,so he came to the US as a Lodge Act immigrant. He enlisted in the army as a Private,and retired as a Special Forces Major in the 70's. When he enlisted in the US Army he enlisted as a German Language interpreter with the condition that he be sent to Germany. When he got there he looked up his next door neighbor girlfriend,who was also the sole surviving member of HER family,and married her. They were still married and she was still absolutely stunning looking when I had dinner with them in Raleigh in the early 80's. They had a ton of kids and grandchildren visiting at the time and were still playful with one another. I am thinking he might be one of the luckiest men I have ever met,given how his life started out.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
In 1950s it was not possible to side with them. The memory of war was too fresh. It was not possible for the US to intervene on Hungary's behalf in 1956 without a nuclear war, which we were not willing to fight over Hungary, or over North Korea, or over Vietnam. We weren't willing to fight one over Cuba either. Poland was the biggest victim of World War II, without a doubt. Invaded by two sides, butchered by two sides. But again, we weren't read to go to nuclear war against the USSR over Poland. Now that Poland is NATO, we WOULD go to nuclear war over it, so the Russians can never come back in.
In September 1939 all German army was tied up in Poland. France could enter Germany like knife cutting batter. Poles expected it.
France and Britain should have done so, and the US should have been there with them. Live and learn.
And Serbia and Greece. And China.
They have unpleasant consequences that the People don't like. We have two choices, really: slash everything to the bone, or raise taxes on the rich. I favor the latter. The rich do not pay what I pay in taxes as a proportion of their gross wealth. And that is a grotesque inequality of treatment before the law that should be rectified. I am willing to pay as much as any other citizen, proportionally, but the richest and most powerful citizens should not pay far, far less than me. I am being exploited, and it is because of the power of their wealth over the political system. Given the choice of the feudalization of America between rich overlords and serfs, through the tearing apart of the social state to save the rich from having to pay their fair share of taxes, or an alliance between the middle class and the poor to force the rich to pay the SAME level of taxes that the middle does - that is all I ask - I favor the fair, egalitarian approach. I know that the rich and their foolish minions who do not actually analyze the numbers will all bellyache how much they pay, but it's utter bullshit. They don't need to be called out on it, they simply need to be forced to PAY IT, at gunpoint, just exactly as I do. In the process, a portion of their superior range of political movement will be curtailed, because they won't have so much excess, and they will be less able to corrupt the government. Unfortunately, the middle and bottom are so divided that I just don't see it happening. Which means, instead, that we'll end up having a crash, and tremendous suffering, and maybe a violent revolution that deprives the rich of their lives, as has happened in so many other countries. That's a shame, and not the outcome I would prefer, but those people really need to be brought down onto a peg of equality in terms of taxes, first to quell the crisis, and then, as the debt is rapidly repaid, so that we can lower the taxes on everybody across the board. At this point, I am keenly aware (through this board, among other things) of how far my fellow Americans are from me politically, so I have resigned myself to probably not seeing anything I want to see in this life, and look forward to the next.
Hungary was a defeated and occupied ally of Third ReichG. They were very brave, tougher than Germans, a tiny country lost hundreds of thousands of soldiers on the Eastern Front. The most at Stalingrad. ----- In 1950s it was not possible to side with them. The memory of war was too fresh.----- A Pole It was not possible for the US to intervene on Hungary's behalf in 1956 without a nuclear war, which we were not willing to fight over Hungary, or over North Korea, or over Vietnam. We weren't willing to fight one over Cuba either. Ike was bluffing the Russians in '56, using the 503rds alert as a threat to intervene, to support the Hungarian freedom fighters. -- So the Russians sent in an armored division, calling our bluff.
By '55, when I enlisted, we had a lot of young DP's in the armed forces. -- There were a couple in my company when we first went to Germany.. It was great having german speakers when out in the field, to talk with the locals...
Whose fault is this? Could it be Uncle Bankrupt Sam? Instead of winning WWII we decided to give the Commies Eastern Europe and to spend our way to bankruptcy by furnishing protection for the nations that Stalin hadn't seized.
Liberals are like Slinkys. They're good for nothing, but somehow they bring a smile to your face as you shove them down the stairs.
I dunno, you're reaching pretty far back to make that case. The dereliction of EU NATO funding is a lot more recent and direct.
That shouldn't have surprised anyone. Germany was in ruins with no industry and no jobs,and joining the US Military would feed,clothe,and house you,give you free medical care,and a few bucks to pass on to your starving family. Plus,it ain't like most Germans were rabid Nazi's to start with. It was either a case of pretend to be a Nazi,or off you and your family go to one of the 3rd Reich camps for more than a summer. The remaining German population must have been the happiest population in history to have been defeated in a war. They got rid of the monsters over them,and were suddenly living under a pretty benign government.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
Yeah,but that's good for bidnez. Wassamaddayou? Git wid de program!
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
By the time I got to Munich, Jan.'56, the krauts were very happy, living the good life. -- There was still a lot of war ruins, but the economy was booming, and the average worker was making 5/600 marks a month, about the same as a GI... Great duty...
Great duty... It must have been because a lot of career soldiers did everything they could to remain there. Going to Europe,and specifically to Germany,is half the reason I enlisted in the army. And I ended up spending almost 5 years of my 7 year career in Asia. So much for MY careful planning! I did get a free 30 travel expense paid leave to Europe when I extended my tour in VN,though. Being a history nut,I really wanted to see some of the historic places,and maybe find a slot for myself in the 10th SFG at Bad Tolz while I was there. Then I was medievaced from VN a little more than a month into my extension,and a little less than a month before I was scheduled to take my leave to Europe. I sometimes think I would have done the world a service if I had became a wedding planner. I did get in a couple of trips to Russia shortly after the USSR collapsed,though. Absolutely loved it and loved most of the Russian people I met. Very nice,very friendly people who to a person cautioned me to "never trust a Russian!" Thus is the legacy of Lenin and Marx and the police state they created.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
Then I was medievaced from VN a little more than a month into my extension,and a little less than a month before I was scheduled to take my leave to Europe. Wow, -- Talk about had luck! -- Pete, many of us were aware that you were wounded in VN, but I've never heard on how it happened or how serious it was.. Hope you find it ok about telling us, but feel free to shut me up... Thanks.
Great duty... It must have been because a lot of career soldiers did everything they could to remain there. -- Pete I've often kicked myself for not taking my discharge there, and trying my luck on making a living in Munich.. --- There was a pretty large english speaking part of town in the English Garden area, where my girlfriend lived. Instead, I went back to Minnesota, and ended up working construction...
When I was in the Air Force in the 80s, one of the things you were forbidden to discuss with any German if you got stationed there was anything about WWII.
A neighbor kid went to Germany back in the '80s, trying to make it as a club musician, not sure how much luck he had. He married a German woman, has German kids and citizenship. But his parents' family was also German on both sides so he was as about as German by blood as most native-born Germans. He's been there anyway 25 years.
Did somebody tell you that, really? And you believed it? Sure, the armed forces enforced something like that immediately after the war, from '45 maybe up to '48 or so, -- but it sure in hell wasn't in effect in the mid fifties.. Perhaps someone in the air force thought it was a good idea, but 'Forbidding' it? Bull. In fact, one of my favorite questions to German men I met was what did you do in the war? --- Never met a one that admitted fighting us on their western front.. They all insisted they fought the Russians.. --- Ya, sure..
Since I was never stationed in Germany, I can't say much truth is in it. It would seem kind of hard to enforce, anyway.
Sometimes, if we're not totally retarded (like 90% of the current Congress) important lessons can be learned from our history.
Liberals are like Slinkys. They're good for nothing, but somehow they bring a smile to your face as you shove them down the stairs.
I had minor frag wounds a few times,but they scabbed over and quit bleeding on their own,so there were no Purple Hearts involved. I got medi-evaced for what was then called "Tropical Acne" after coming in from one mission with open boils and sores all over my back and chest. It was so bad they pulled me and replaced me from a mission I had already been briefed on and was due to insert on the day after I got back to Kontum from seeing the AF Dermatologist that specialized in skin diseases at Camn Rah Bay. Even after I got back to Bragg it was bad enough I couldn't wear web gear or a parachute harness and was under a physical profile restricting me from any work that would make me sweat and required me to shower twice a day. As a result I was pulled out of SF because I was non-deployable for medical reasons and sent to a conventional Signal Company at Bragg,where I spent my last few months in the army as a motor pool guard at night. They offered me a promotion if I would re-enlist,but the regular army and I didn't see eye to eye on pretty much anything,and I didn't join the army to be a babysitter for teenage retards. I'd ride my Harely around the motor pool at night to check on the stored cars of the guys that were deployed,and sometimes I would put on a set of black coveralls and walk around without a flashlight to see if I could catch someone listening for the sound of a Harley. Thus ended my army career after 7 short years. This later became called "Chloracne",and then became known as Agent Orange.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
That's odd. Surely the Germans must have heard about it. Makes you wonder what kind of brainiacs they put stars on these days,doesn't it?
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
I still remember standing in formation at my first ever IG inspection after getting to the 3rd SFG at Bragg,and being shocked at seeing 3 senior NCO's wearing Iron Crosses on their dress greens. Plus a BUNCH of other guys wearing ribbons or award badges never seen on the wall poster of US awards and decorations. It wasn't considered polite to ask what they were or how they got them,so I still don't know what most of them were. There was one I really,REALLY wanted,but never got,though. The US Army Pathfinder Badge. Has to be the coolest-looking badge,ever. AFAIK,nobody in SF ever got one. You pretty much had to be in a conventional or airborne infantry unit to even be accepted for training.No surprise there,since setting up LZ's for conventional airborne infantry parachute jumps or clearing paths for conventional infantry ground assaults is why they existed. Still,every time I saw one I was eaten alive with envy.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
Makes you wonder what kind of brainiacs they put stars on these days,doesn't it? It was in some kind of Air Force manual. I was never stationed there. But then, I saw Air Force Officer guides at the time that directed you how you should address your "woman" to dress and act at official functions. This was after I went through OTS, where they had already got PC enough to not use the term "his" for every generic personal pronoun.
I remember that badge, vaguely, I think some of the old WW2 noncoms wore them. - --'Can't recall being around any active pathfinders at the regimental level.. Sorry to hear about your agent Orange problems. Especially the way the VA is working these days.. -- I'm thinking of giving up on the vet's, and going back on medicare..
It is no exaggeration to say the VA of today is working 10,000 times better than it was when I first hit the system in 1970. I don't even want to kill any of their employees when I go up there anymore,never mind threaten or do a little "laying on of the hands". It's still not perfect. For example,even if you are rated at being 100 percent service-rated disabled like me,they STILL refuse to pay for emergency surgeries. The excuse they give is "You should have came to the VA for the surgery,and if we couldn't have handled it we would have then used an ambulance to take you to a hospital that can." Given that my "local" VA hospital is right at 70 miles from me and the nearest civilian hospital is only 30 miles from me,I tend to go to the local hospital when I am dying. Also,I can't get to the local hospital with an ambulance because I would have to cross a bridge-tunnel,and I have been told they don't allow ambulances. I would have had to had the EMS people schedule a helicopter to pick me up and fly me to the VAMC,where they would have then put me into an ambulance and taken me to a regular civilian hospital. Don't you just LOVE bureaucracies? Then all tend to think there is only one solution to every problem, I had 4 emergency surgeries in a two year period some years ago,and just got the last one paid off about a year ago. That issue aside,I have nothing but praise for the VA system these days. I'm thinking of giving up on the vet's, and going back on medicare. Do NOT give up on your VA card. It is VERY useful,will save you a lot of money,and as I wrote above,the VA of today is NOT the VA of 20 years ago. If you have a medicare card in your wallet you are golden if you need emergency surgery. If you need regular health care help or even surgery you can schedule,go to the VA. They are MUCH more willing to allow you to choose a hospital and doctor of your choice close to your home now than they used to be. I told you about the 4 emergency surgeries the VA wouldn't pay for,but I didn't tell you that Medicare paid most of it,and I also didn't tell you about the 4 scheduled surgeries at the local hospital I have had over the last several years that they DID pay for. EVERY freaking dime. I just had to get VA approval first,which is no big deal with non-emergency surgeries.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
I've discovered that in the VA system, where you are makes a Big difference. -- I originally started with them on the SF penisula, the Palo Alto branch, which turned out to be best in the system.. Now I'm with the Reno VA, which, while not the worst, is infested with bureaucrats. -- So I signed up with the Choice Program, hoping I could use my local hospital system. -- ,You guessed it, 'Choice' is a joke, and probably is more bureaucratic than the VA itself...
#2. To: Vicomte13 (#1)
(Edited)
What good does the German army do for anybody? It's an expensive white elephant.
#3. To: Vicomte13 (#1)
Germany doesn't need an army at all. France, England and the United States have nuclear weapons, and the Russians don't have the armed strength to get across Poland against US, Polish and NATO resistance.
#4. To: Vicomte13 (#1)
#5. To: Tooconservative (#3)
Then we need no armies at all, do we?
#6. To: misterwhite, A K A Stone (#4)
I heard the Pope asking the other day, “How many divisions does Germany have?”
#7. To: Tooconservative (#6)
Okay, that's genuinely witty.
#8. To: Vicomte13, misterwhite, sneakypete (#5)
(Edited)
I didn't say WE didn't need armies. WE are Rome, the world empire. WE need conventional forces to protect and expand that empire. GERMANY doesn't need an army, and if I were German, I'd be clamoring to save all of that money and pay off the national debt.
And to complete this farce, the Germans -- who citizens do not intend to fight for any other NATO countries -- is ready to lead the Very High Readiness Joint Task Force next year, an exercise in futility comparable to selecting Iran to lead the UN's human rights council. Germany is about the least prepared NATO country, despite having the strongest industrial base and greatest wealth in the EU. Between April 6 and May 15, 2015, the Pew Research Center carried out a survey of 11,116 respondents in eight NATO countries as well as in Russia and Ukraine. The NATO countries were Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Poland, Spain, the United Kingdom, and the United States.
#9. To: Tooconservative (#8)
So it is the job of American boys to die for Europe
#10. To: Vicomte13 (#9)
Dying for Europe? Nobody is at any real risk of doing that. At all.
#11. To: Tooconservative (#10)
Then get rid of NATO entirely. It is an unfunded liability for America.
#12. To: Vicomte13 (#11)
#13. To: Vicomte13 (#5)
WE need conventional forces to protect and expand that empire.
#14. To: Tooconservative (#12)
Hooey. None of that is true.
#15. To: Vicomte13 (#14)
FDR, Truman, Ike, JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, W, Obama and Trump were all very different men, with very different concepts of governance, but they ALL agreed that America needs to first and foremost a military superpower, very present in the world, containing evil and protecting the free.
#16. To: Tooconservative (#15)
Ike sensibly opposed any expansion of NATO and wanted to withdraw from Europe entirely.
#17. To: Vicomte13 (#16)
Sure, it would be great if we could just come back home and save all of that money. I've thought that myself for years, and Ike was coming from most of a lifetime in which the American desire was very much to not be "over there". We were dragged into World War II against our will.
#18. To: Tooconservative, Vicomte13 (#8)
Let them deal with Russia on their own.
#19. To: A Pole (#18)
It is time for the others to go there.
#20. To: Tooconservative (#17)
I wouldn't cut it all. However, the rising debt crisis makes that more and more inevitable and painful.
#21. To: Tooconservative (#19)
I nominate the Poles.
#22. To: Vicomte13 (#20)
The very rich hold most of their property as securities, which are not taxed. Houses, cars and boats are taxed, but securities are not.
#23. To: Tooconservative (#19)
(Edited)
I nominate the Poles.
#24. To: A Pole (#23)
#25. To: Tooconservative (#24)
Europe's history is too depressing to review. And all that crappy artwork you EUros
#26. To: Tooconservative (#8)
And to complete this farce, the Germans -- who citizens do not intend to fight for any other NATO countries -
#27. To: Vicomte13 (#9)
(Edited)
We WANT to be there because of the political power it gives us, and because of the defense contracts that flow from it. THAT is the game.
#28. To: Tooconservative (#12)
Hooey. None of that is true.
#29. To: sneakypete (#26)
(Edited)
The sad,sad truth is that there are damn few genetic Germans left. Most bled out in WW-1 or WW-2
#30. To: Tooconservative (#17)
I think we should focus on naval and air power and we should mostly move our forces out of Europe. If they don't want to defend it, why should we?
#31. To: A Pole (#18)
You see, French and Germans already paid their dues in 1812 and 1941 on the Eastern Front, they remember it well and painfully. It is time for the others to go there.
#32. To: Vicomte13 (#20)
Houses, cars and boats are taxed, but securities are not.
#33. To: A Pole (#29)
The last and only time when racial purity was preached in Poland was under German occupation.
#34. To: sneakypete (#33)
(Edited)
However,there IS such a thing as CULTURAL purity. Don't believe it's important or doesn't exist?
#35. To: A Pole (#34)
Nazis were also talking about cultural purity.
#36. To: Tooconservative (#22)
Most of the hole in the federal budget is due to the cap on SS taxes. It should be at least 10 times higher than it is or perhaps just unlimited.
#37. To: sneakypete (#35)
(Edited)
While conveniently ignoring the FACT that many Germans were also Jewish.
#38. To: sneakypete (#26)
It's enough to make you think most post-WW-1 and WW-2 German women were impregnated by Frenchmen.
#39. To: Vicomte13, sneakypete (#38)
We have a checkered military record, but we're really, REALLY good at THAT.
#40. To: A Pole (#39)
#41. To: Vicomte13 (#40)
(Edited)
Find some German propaganda about the French.
#42. To: sneakypete, Y'ALL (#26)
Let's be fair,here. The sad,sad truth is that there are damn few genetic Germans left. Most bled out in WW-1 or WW-2,leaving their women to be impregnated by Slavs,French,English,and American occupation forces.
#43. To: A Pole (#41)
#44. To: Tooconservative (#15)
Ike sensibly opposed any expansion of NATO and wanted to withdraw from Europe entirely.
#45. To: tpaine (#42)
especially the french.
#46. To: A Pole (#39)
#47. To: no gnu taxes (#45)
They never saw it coming.
#48. To: tpaine (#47)
They knew it was coming.
#49. To: Vicomte13 (#36)
#50. To: Vicomte13 (#43)
(Edited)
I'm asking for German propaganda that is aimed at motivating the Germans to fight the French.
#51. To: A Pole (#39)
Here is how Germans were forming the image in Polish minds of coming Red Army soldiers. Still persists.
#52. To: tpaine (#44)
He sure didn't show it during the Hungarian uprising. --- He had the 503rd on full alert for 3 days, on the tarmac at Munich, --- ready to go into Budapest.
#53. To: Vicomte13 (#46)
“If I regard de Gaulle as a great man? He is selfish, he is arrogant, he believes he is the center of the world. He . . . You are quite right. He is a great man." - Winston Churchill
#54. To: tpaine (#42)
Let's be fair,here. The sad,sad truth is that there are damn few genetic Germans left. Most bled out in WW-1 or WW-2,leaving their women to be impregnated by Slavs,French,English,and American occupation forces.
#55. To: A Pole (#52)
Hungary was a defeated and occupied ally of Third Reich. They were very brave, tougher than Germans, a tiny country lost hundreds of thousands of soldiers on the Eastern Front. The most at Stalingrad.
#56. To: tpaine (#47)
Almost a year passed between Poland and the attack on France..
#57. To: A Pole (#56)
In September 1939 all German army was tied up in Poland. France could enter Germany like knife cutting batter. Poles expected it.
#58. To: Vicomte13 (#55)
Poland was the biggest victim of World War II, without a doubt
#59. To: Tooconservative (#49)
These problems could be solved but they have unpleasant consequences that the pols don't like.
#60. To: A Pole, Y'ALL (#52)
tpaine (#44) -- He (Ike) It turned out that had the 503rd on full alert for 3 days, on the tarmac at Munich, --- ready to go into Budapest.
#61. To: sneakypete (#54)
#62. To: Tooconservative (#0)
Only four fighters can be made combat ready
#63. To: IbJensen (#62)
Whose fault is this? Could it be Uncle Bankrupt Sam? Instead of winning WWII we decided to give the Commies Eastern Europe and to spend our way to bankruptcy by furnishing protection for the nations that Stalin hadn't seized.
#64. To: tpaine (#61)
By '55, when I enlisted, we had a lot of young DP's in the armed forces.
#65. To: IbJensen (#62)
Instead of winning WWII we decided to give the Commies Eastern Europe and to spend our way to bankruptcy by furnishing protection for the nations that Stalin hadn't seized.
#66. To: sneakypete (#64)
The remaining German population must have been the happiest population in history to have been defeated in a war. They got rid of the monsters over them,and were suddenly living under a pretty benign government.
#67. To: tpaine (#66)
(Edited)
By the time I got to Munich, Jan.'56, the krauts were very happy, living the good life. -- There was still a lot of war ruins, but the economy was booming, and the average worker was making 5/600 marks a month, about the same as a GI...
#68. To: sneakypete (#67)
I did get a free 30 travel expense paid leave to Europe when I extended my tour in VN,though. Being a history nut,I really wanted to see some of the historic places,and maybe find a slot for myself in the 10th SFG at Bad Tolz while I was there.
#69. To: sneakypete (#67)
#70. To: tpaine (#66)
#71. To: tpaine (#69)
#72. To: no gnu taxes (#70)
(Edited)
When I was in the Air Force in the 80s, one of the things you were forbidden to discuss with any German if you got stationed there was anything about WWII.
#73. To: tpaine (#72)
#74. To: Tooconservative (#63)
I dunno, you're reaching pretty far back to make that case.
#75. To: tpaine (#68)
-- Pete, many of us were aware that you were wounded in VN, but I've never heard on how it happened or how serious it was..
#76. To: no gnu taxes (#70)
When I was in the Air Force in the 80s, one of the things you were forbidden to discuss with any German if you got stationed there was anything about WWII.
#77. To: tpaine (#72)
(Edited)
In fact, one of my favorite questions to German men I met was what did you do in the war? --- Never met a one that admitted fighting us on their western front.. They all insisted they fought the Russians.. --- Ya, sure..
#78. To: sneakypete (#76)
That's odd. Surely the Germans must have heard about it.
#79. To: sneakypete (#77)
There was one I really,REALLY wanted,but never got,though. The US Army Pathfinder Badge. Has to be the coolest-looking badge,ever. AFAIK,nobody in SF ever got one. You pretty much had to be in a conventional or airborne infantry unit to even be accepted for training.
#80. To: tpaine (#79)
(Edited)
Especially the way the VA is working these days..
#81. To: sneakypete (#80)
Don't you just LOVE bureaucracies? Then all tend to think there is only one solution to every problem,
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