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Title: Saudi prince: Maybe the Palestinians should've taken the deals they were offered
Source:
HotAir
URL Source: https://hotair.com/archives/2018/04 ... -shouldve-taken-deals-offered/
Published: Apr 30, 2018
Author: Ed Morrissey
Post Date: 2018-05-01 02:51:50 by Tooconservative
Keywords: None
Views: 7087
Comments: 88
Now, MBS says, it’s time to make a deal or “shut up and stop complaining”: “In the last several decades the Palestinian leadership has missed one opportunity after the other and rejected all the peace proposals it was given. It is about time the Palestinians take the proposals and agree to come to the negotiations table or shut up and stop complaining.” MBS also made two other points on the Palestinian issue during the meeting: Under MBS’ leadership since taking effective power in June 2017, Saudi Arabia has aligned itself far more with the West. Decrees from the royal palace are now allowing women to drive and to dress in something other than black abayas and niqabs while in public. MBS has opened cinemas in Saudi Arabia for the first time in decades. He’s either cleaning up corruption or purging dissidents and hardliners, but either way MBS is making sure that he directs public policy for Saudi Arabia for the next several decades, and directs it to come closer to the West. The main intention of all this appears to be an effort to isolate Iran, which has become an existential threat to Sunni power in the region. Our invasion and then abandonment of Iraq didn’t help in that effort, which is why even the previous crown prince took a distinctly cool approach to Barack Obama at the end of his presidency. MBS knows that he’ll have to modernize in order to make Western nations comfortable with any partnership for the region, and that the glut on oil markets means that the Saudis can’t simply use energy as leverage any more. Unfortunately for the Palestinians, they’ve been playing footsie with Tehran more than Riyadh, and now they’re going to pay for it. Choosing sides has consequences, and with the stakes as high as they are now, the Saudis see the Palestinians as dispensable. They’d rather ally openly with Israel to keep Iran at bay, and the best way to do that is for the Palestinians to take a deal and get on with their lives. Unfortunately again for the Palestinians, they still can’t decide what they want, or even how to discuss it: President Mahmoud Abbas is expected to use the four-day Palestinian National Council (PNC) meeting to renew his legitimacy and to install loyalists in powerful positions to begin shaping his legacy. Abbas has billed the meeting of the Palestinian National Council (PNC), the de facto parliament of the Palestinian Liberation Organization, as a chance to establish a united front against Israel and the United States, after President Donald Trump’s recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital. The hardline Islamists in Hamas and Islamic Jihad, both of which are aligned with Iran, have boycotted the event, ostensibly because its West Bank location puts them at risk of arrest by Israel. But Reuters notes that three factions of the PLO are also boycotting, in part because they believe Abbas hasn’t been open enough to working with IJ or Hamas. The event is seen as an anachronism by other Palestinians, a desperate attempt by Abbas to emphasize his legitimacy as the Palestinian Authority leader while being largely ignored by all sides. The Saudis have had enough. Perhaps Abbas should take MBS’ advice and cut a deal while he still can. Poster Comment: Ha! The Pali animals are being thrown under the bus as the Saudis see Israel as a more valuable ally in the struggle against Iranian hegemony instead of playing the whipping boy of Arab Jew-hate propaganda.
Or maybe they should stop sucking up to Iran. That’s the real subtext of the surprising rhetoric coming from Mohammed bin Salman, the young crown prince of Saudi Arabia who’s rewriting the Middle East script after seizing power in a family feud last year. Barak Ravid reports for Axios that MBS, as he’s colloquially known, told representatives of Jewish groups last month that while Saudi Arabia still wants a just and lasting settlement for the Palestinians, they could have gotten that themselves. According to my sources, the Saudi Crown Prince told the Jewish leaders: A powerful but rarely convened assembly that calls itself the Palestinian “supreme authority” meets for the first time in 22 years on Monday, but boycotts and rifts suggest it will struggle to achieve its stated goal of unity against Israel and the United States.
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#42. To: misterwhite (#36)
Those so called "Palestinians" weren't even there until the Jews bought the land and made it inhabitable.
The Palestinians have actually had numerous opportunities to create an independent state, but have repeatedly rejected the offers: In 1937, the Peel Commission proposed the partition of Palestine and the creation of an Arab state. In 1939, the British White Paper proposed the creation of a unitary Arab state. In 1947, the UN would have created an even larger Arab state as part of its partition plan. The 1979 Egypt-Israel peace negotiations offered the Palestinians autonomy, which would almost certainly have led to full independence. The Oslo agreements of the 1990s laid out a path for Palestinian independence, but the process was derailed by terrorism. In 2000, Prime Minister Ehud Barak offered to create a Palestinian state in all of Gaza and 97 percent of the West Bank. In 2008, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert offered to withdraw from almost the entire West Bank and partition Jerusalem on a demographic basis. In addition 1948 to 1967, Israel did not control the West Bank. The Palestinians could have demanded an independent state from the Jordanians. On the contrary whilst Jordan was in control Arafat said there was no longer a claim as it was no longer part of Palestine. Once it was back in Israeli hands it miraculously became disputed land again! This is one of many reasons Jews and Israelis are cynical. The Palestinians have spurned each of these opportunities. A variety of reasons have been given for why the Palestinians have in Abba Eban’s words, “never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity.” Historian Benny Morris has suggested that the Palestinians have religious, historical, and practical reasons for opposing an agreement with Israel. He says that “Arafat and his generation cannot give up the vision of the greater land of Israel for the Arabs. [This is true because] this is a holy land, Dar al-Islam [the world of Islam]. It was once in the hands of the Muslims, and it is inconceivable [to them] that infidels like us [the Israelis] would receive it.” The Palestinians also believe that time is on their side. “They feel that demographics will defeat the Jews in one hundred or two hundred years, just like the Crusaders.” The Palestinians, Morris says, also hope the Arabs will acquire nuclear weapons in the future that will allow them to defeat Israel. In 2000, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak offered to withdraw from 97 percent of the West Bank and 100 percent of the Gaza Strip. In addition, he agreed to dismantle 63 isolated settlements. In exchange for the 3 percent annexation of the West Bank, Israel said it would give up territory in the Negev that would increase the size of the Gaza territory by roughly a third. Barak also made previously unthinkable concessions on Jerusalem, agreeing that Arab neighborhoods of East Jerusalem would become the capital of the new state. The Palestinians would maintain control over their holy places and have “religious sovereignty” over the Temple Mount. According to U.S. peace negotiator Dennis Ross, Israel offered to create a Palestinian state that was contiguous, and not a series of cantons. Even in the case of the Gaza Strip, which must be physically separate from the West Bank unless Israel were to be cut into non-contiguous pieces, a solution was devised whereby an overland highway would connect the two parts of the Palestinian state without any Israeli checkpoints or interference. The proposal also addressed the Palestinian refugee issue, guaranteeing them the right of return to the Palestinian state and reparations from a $30 billion fund that would be collected from international donors to compensate them. “In his last conversation with President Clinton, Arafat told the President that he was “a great man.” Clinton responded, “The hell I am. I’m a colossal failure, and you made me one.” Arafat was asked to agree to Israeli sovereignty over the parts of the Western Wall religiously significant to Jews (i.e., not the entire Temple Mount), and three early warning stations in the Jordan Valley, which Israel would withdraw from after six years. Most important, however, Arafat was expected to agree that the conflict with Israel was over at the end of the negotiations. This was the true deal breaker. Arafat was not willing to end the conflict. “For him to end the conflict is to end himself,” said Ross. The prevailing view of the Camp David/White House negotiations—that Israel offered generous concessions, and that Yasser Arafat rejected them to pursue the war that began in September 2000—was acknowledged for more than a year. To counter the perception that Arafat was the obstacle to peace, the Palestinians and their supporters then began to suggest a variety of excuses for why Arafat failed to say “yes” to a proposal that would have established a Palestinian state. The truth is that if the Palestinians were dissatisfied with any part of the Israeli proposal, all they had to do was offer a counterproposal. They never did. Anyone that is against Israel should satisfy themselves as why this may have been? I believe, when it comes to the Palestinians, as David Crosby has it: "They Want It All"
The Saudi Peace Plan calls for a Palestinian State with the borders defined in UN 242 (in the aftermath of the Six-Day War). This gives Israel more land than they had before under UN 181. Israel rejected it and continues to this day to steal land beyond the Green Line. Because they can.
The only people there were Palestinians until the Jews fled Europe and moved in. They bought the land from Palestinians, nitwit.
Palestine would look like Indonesia without the water.
What voluntary concessions has Israel made in their conflict with the Palestinians? In 1947, Israel accepted the UN partition plan that allotted it only part of the land west of the Jordan, even though all Palestine west and east of the Jordan had been mandated to the British for the cultivation of a Jewish homeland. The Arab leaders rejected the plan. After the War of Independence, Israel offered compensation for the property that displaced Arabs had lost (some accepted compensation, many didn't), and it allowed thousands of Arabs back. In 1967, having conquered Jerusalem, Israel refrained from asserting full authority over the Temple Mount, leaving day-to-day management to the Muslim Waqf. Rather than keep the West Bank Arabs at a distance, it allowed them free travel into Israel and back (until terrorism forced a stop). In the Oslo agreements, which were intended (at least by Israel) as an interim step toward a termination of conflict, Israel allowed the Palestinian Arab leaders, despite their terrorist past, to return from Tunisian exile and form the Palestinian Authority. It gave them civilian authority over a large portion of the population and terrain and it permitted the return of thousands more Arabs into Israel itself. In the course of further negotiations, Israel has made such gestures as prisoner releases and building freezes. The most dramatic gesture was the total withdrawal from Gaza. Just as Oslo was followed by a wave of suicide bombings against Israel, the withdrawal from Gaza was followed by rocket attacks on Israel. Nonetheless, to this day Israel provides water and electricity to Gaza. There are small concessions being offered all the time. For the most part, Israel has stuck to the 1993 Oslo Accords in terms of passing on territory to the Palestinian government as they have not fulfilled their end of the deal that would facilitate more transfers. I really don’t want to go into all the concessions, but I’ll just state two instances. The first and more recent was an attempt to kickstart peace talks before Donald Trump visited Israel. The other and more well known concession was when Israel released 104 long-term prisoners, including murderers and those who assisted murders from prison as part of a demand to start peace talks with the Palestinians. I can’t think of any country other than Israel that would do that.
They bought the land from a number of Arabs at inflated prices. The so-called Palestinians are mostly just Jordanians.
I admire your meaty posts here but you are up against crypto-antisemites here. They mount (deliberately) uninformed propaganda to justify their Joo-hate. You cannot reasonably hope to persuade them by arguing from the facts.
These guys are pikers compared to the Jew haters over at Freedumb4um.
There were other British reports, also from XIX century, about poverty in Irish villages. Must be English rule there was not much better , than of the Turks. Do you hate Irish too?
Poverty was not unique for the Arabs under Turkish rule, or for the Irish. Photos from Jewish town in 1920s Poland: Next decade, poor Americans: Poor Polish children in 1930s Poland:
I'm not sure what you are trying to say. That everybody who supports jews like people living in poverty? Maybe you hate these guys:
Look, half of my family was killed during the WWII by people like you. I know your kind. It is you who hates people who are weaker, or poor, or stigmatized. I do not hate you at all. Probably you act our early trauma, when you felt to be under.
I don't see that coming from gnu. But there is a real stench of unwarranted smug condescension and Lefty accusations of various "thought crimes" reeking in every post you make.
I don't hate anybody poor, Pole. My dad grew up in the depression and was genuinely hungry almost every day of his life at that time. This isn't about poor people. It's about propaganda - keeping people poor to promote a political agenda.
So you try to distance yourself from the poor and excluded, by contempt and hostility. I had comfortable childhood. Not because my parents were Commies, they were professionals who had good start before Communism. After the Communists took over they got "impoverished" as they could have only one servant. Grandparents had several. I do not claim any credit for my inherited privilege, same way I do not put any blame on my friends of poor background. Yet, sometimes I feel in them bitterness and resentment toward people like me. Those are toxic feeling, try to free yourself from them. Life and universe are greater than the social divisions and injustice.
Sorry, I will try harder not to be smug ;)
Well, I can appreciate your background. The people in Palestine could be living in luxury right now if the other Muslims wanted it.
Just the opposite. They screwed the ignorant peasants. Man, you are like 0 for 10 in your claims. Where are you getting your information from?
Honestly? They offered not to take as much land as they were planning on taking. That's their "concession". "even though all Palestine west and east of the Jordan had been mandated to the British for the cultivation of a Jewish homeland." Nope. The Balfour Declaration stated, “His Majesty's Government view with favor the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.” A home for the Jewish people in Palestine. Not, "All of Palestine as a home for the Jewish people. All others not welcome". Which is how the Israelis read it.
I'm waiting for facts. All I'm getting is propaganda.
Not total withdrawal. Israel continues their 12-year blockade of Gaza which has "devastated Gaza's economy, caused widespread destruction and left most people largely cut off from the outside world." Then Israel has the balls to say, "See? The Palestinians can't function without us."
Reputable sources. I've given numerous examples of where Israel tried to give reasonable offers to these mongrel Arabs, and you you have ignored them all. Arafat died a multi-millionaire. Why do you think that is? This could go on forever. If you wish to worship people who cheered the 911 terrorism and want to hate Jews, feel free to continue in your line of thought. However, I am done.
They were not the least bit reasonable. UN 242 was reasonable. The Saudi Peace Plan was reasonable.
Go to the hospitals that specialize in treating hydrocephalics.
That's the way that "claims" get made, isn't it? "It's mine!" "No it isn't!" "It's MINE!" "Why would you even think that?" "Because I said 'It's mine' first!" "So what?" "So therefore, it's mine!" "No it isn't." "Well, me and this gun here say that it's mine." "Ah. Well. Alright then." Later: "He ADMITTED that it's mine!" "No I didn't." "You said 'Alright', which means that you admitted it's mine." "No, you were pointing a gun at me, so I said what I needed to say to save my life. I do not admit that it's yours." "You did!" "I did not!" "You DID!" "No, I didn't." Both whip out guns and shoot each other, with their families watching. 10 years later, the boy of one of the deceased says to the boy of the other "It's mine!"
He, he. I did have tomography. No water, only brain tissue.
And there won't be if Israel has their way. And either way it is none of our concern.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
I don't know if Russians are smarter than other Europeans,but I do know they are the only Europeans who haven't been living as slaves ever since the country was founded. First it was the Czar,and then it was the Commizar. Either way things were upside down,and the idiots were in charge. A smart man that wants to live takes care to not embarrass or insult his idiot master. I also know I have met a hell of a lot of smart Russians.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
Have you tried letting some of the hot air escape?
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
Yeah,those two look like they are having fun.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
Why do you care?
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
No kidding. I finally had to quit posting there. You just can't reason with foaming at the mouth cretins.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
That's where I am on this conflict between Jew and Muslim, Israeli and Palestinian, and the whole Middle East. Time was, we needed the oil, so it mattered. Now we are an oil exporter, so the whole region doesn't matter so much. It's a hopeless mess because of 4000 years of stubborn and violent culture. Two religions, neither of which are mine, are in violent conflict (my co- religionists are being driven out of the region in droves). So, I say have generous immigration to CHRISTIANS fleeing the violence of the Middle East - and Christianity is easy to test. And as to the rest of the nuthouse? Not my circus, not my monkeys, don't need the region, don't care, ain't gonna - and wish we'd just get out.
"The U.S. has sent almost $300 billion in military and economic aid to troubled Middle East and Central Asian countries over the past six decades." That's our tax dollars. And what has it gotten us? THAT'S why I care.
Don't take it personally and you don't know they got it anyway, many intermediataries. Giving people aid doesn't buy you anything, not even loyality
Don't be ridiculous! It buys votes every day of the week,and politicians exist to gather votes. Kind of like tiny little perpetual motion machines. They say they have to get voted back into office in order to do anything,so they need to focus more on gathering votes than anything else. ESPECIALLY more than they spend on trying to bring America back on a Constitutional footing. kinda makes you wonder which came first,the bribe or the vote,doesn't it?
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
It doesn't explain why they are so poor with an economy much smaller than Texas despite considerable oil wealth. They also tend to drink themselves to death at an early age. And they only seem happy while living under despots of some flavor or another. It never works out for them though. Maybe they aren't so smart.
Certainly the bribe
THAT'S why I care. We are brothers on THAT one! I say we just let the backwards bastards kill each other off,and maybe make a few bucks selling them weapons to do it with.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
No,but communism does. They also tend to drink themselves to death at an early age. Yes,they do. If you didn't know any better,you would think they are Irish. In the case of the Russians,it is 100 years of being born and living in a communist police state. In the case of the Irish,it is possibly hundreds of years of living in a Catholic police state,plus they just like to drink and fight. And they only seem happy while living under despots of some flavor or another. And how would we know that? Other than the 15 minutes or so of living free under Yeltsin,all they have ever known were despots,going back to the time of the Mongol invasions. Maybe even before the Mongols. It never works out for them though. It never works out for anyone but the despot and his family.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
Comments (83 - 88) not displayed.
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#43. To: misterwhite (#40)
And Israel has plenty of money and territory to abide by UN 242 and allow the Palestinians their own state.
#44. To: no gnu taxes (#43)
I believe, when it comes to the Palestinians, as David Crosby has it: "They Want It All"
#45. To: no gnu taxes (#42)
Those so called "Palestinians" weren't even there until the Jews bought the land and made it inhabitable.
#46. To: no gnu taxes (#43)
In 2000, Prime Minister Ehud Barak offered to create a Palestinian state in all of Gaza and 97 percent of the West Bank.
#47. To: misterwhite (#45)
(Edited)
#48. To: misterwhite (#45)
The only people there were Palestinians until the Jews fled Europe and moved in.
#49. To: no gnu taxes, A K A Stone (#43)
#50. To: Tooconservative (#7)
I didn't realize LF was such a hotbed of Israel-haters.
#51. To: no gnu taxes (#41)
We found it inhabited by fellahin who lived in mud hovels and suffered severely from the prevalent malaria
#52. To: All (#51)
#53. To: A Pole (#51)
#54. To: no gnu taxes (#53)
(Edited)
Maybe you hate these guys:
#55. To: A Pole (#54)
It is you who hates people who are weaker, or poor, or stigmatized.
#56. To: A Pole (#54)
#57. To: no gnu taxes (#56)
I don't hate anybody poor, Pole. My dad grew up in the depression and was genuinely hungry almost every day of his life at that time.
#58. To: Tooconservative (#55)
But there is a real stench of unwarranted smug condescension and Lefty accusations of various "thought crimes" reeking in every post you make.
#59. To: A Pole (#57)
#60. To: no gnu taxes (#48)
They bought the land from a number of Arabs at inflated prices.
#61. To: no gnu taxes (#47)
What voluntary concessions has Israel made in their conflict with the Palestinians?
#62. To: Tooconservative, no gnu taxes (#49)
You cannot reasonably hope to persuade them by arguing from the facts.
#63. To: no gnu taxes (#47)
The most dramatic gesture was the total withdrawal from Gaza.
#64. To: misterwhite (#60)
Where are you getting your information from?
#65. To: no gnu taxes (#64)
I've given numerous examples of where Israel tried to give reasonable offers
#66. To: A Pole (#34)
I need XXL size, hard to find. Really.
#67. To: misterwhite (#38)
Yeah. Some wandering Jew pitched a tent in the desert 4,000 years ago and that established the State of Israel forever.
#68. To: Vicomte13 (#66)
Go to the hospitals that specialize in treating hydrocephalics.
#69. To: misterwhite (#31)
Palestine refers to a region. There is no country of Palestine.
#70. To: paraclete (#33)
so this would suggest Russians are smarter than the rest,
#71. To: A Pole (#34)
My head is too large for the hats. I need XXL size, hard to find. Really.
#72. To: A Pole (#37)
They like the cold.
#73. To: misterwhite (#38)
Yeah. Some wandering Jew pitched a tent in the desert 4,000 years ago and that established the State of Israel forever.
#74. To: no gnu taxes (#50)
These guys are pikers compared to the Jew haters over at Freedumb4um.
#75. To: sneakypete (#73)
(Edited)
Why do you care?
#76. To: Vicomte13 (#75)
#77. To: misterwhite (#76)
That's our tax dollars. And what has it gotten us? THAT'S why I care.
#78. To: paraclete (#77)
(Edited)
Giving people aid doesn't buy you anything, not even loyality
#79. To: sneakypete (#70)
I also know I have met a hell of a lot of smart Russians.
#80. To: sneakypete (#78)
kinda makes you wonder which came first, the bribe or the vote, doesn't it?
#81. To: misterwhite (#76)
"The U.S. has sent almost $300 billion in military and economic aid to troubled Middle East and Central Asian countries over the past six decades." That's our tax dollars. And what has it gotten us?
#82. To: Tooconservative (#79)
It doesn't explain why they are so poor with an economy much smaller than Texas despite considerable oil wealth.
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