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LEFT WING LOONS
See other LEFT WING LOONS Articles

Title: Calexit gets go-ahead to start collecting signatures
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201 ... art-collecting-signatures.html
Published: Apr 24, 2018
Author: Barnini Chakraborty
Post Date: 2018-04-24 17:25:14 by Justified
Keywords: None
Views: 3137
Comments: 33

Advocates who want California to secede from the rest of the United States were given the green light Monday to begin collecting signatures for their initiative.

California’s Secretary of State Alex Padilla announced the ballot proposal had been cleared.

The latest measure would ask voters in 2020 to decide whether to open up a secession discussion. If passed, a second election would be held a year later asking voters to affirm the decision and become an independent country.

Advocates have until mid-October to gather 365,880 signatures of registered voters to get it on the ballot.

Marcus Ruiz Evans and Louis J. Marinelli, co-founders of the group Yes California, said the second vote would show that Californians are serious about secession and would strengthen the case for foreign governments to recognize the state’s independence.

“We realize it may seem like a long time to wait,” Marinelli told The Times of San Diego. “But we need time to have a serious dialogue with the people of California about why they should support the independence referendum by voting yes. The voters need to make an informed decision when they go to the polls to determine California’s political future.”

There have been multiple efforts in the past for California to break away from the rest of America. They have either been withdrawn or failed to gather the signatures required to advance.

As the Yes California group gears up, another initiative to break up California into three separate states is also taking shape. That plan, backed by Silicon Valley billionaire Tim Draper, would create a northern California state with San Francisco at its core, another state near Los Angeles and a third that covers the Central Valley as well as San Diego.

And if that were not enough, there’s yet another proposal in play known as “New California” that would cut out rural counties and make them into individual states.

The founders of New California describe the rest of California as “ungovernable.”

“The current state of California has become governed by a tyranny,” the group declared in an online statement.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 30.

#13. To: Justified (#0)

Advocates who want California to secede from the rest of the United States

To avoid this, I say we should be careful which territories we allow to become states to begin with. Like Puerto Rico.

misterwhite  posted on  2018-04-25   9:15:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: misterwhite, Justified (#13)

To avoid this, I say we should be careful which territories we allow to become states to begin with. Like Puerto Rico.

Puerto has repeatedly voted to not become a state. Becoming a state brings with it the paying of Federal taxes.

nolu chan  posted on  2018-04-25   17:41:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: nolu chan (#15)

Puerto has repeatedly voted to not become a state.

In the past, yes. But ...

"A referendum on the political status of Puerto Rico was held in Puerto Rico on June 11, 2017. The referendum had three options: becoming a state of the United States, independence/free association, or maintaining the current territorial status. Those who voted overwhelmingly chose statehood by 97%."
-- Wiki

misterwhite  posted on  2018-04-26   9:12:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: misterwhite (#21)

Puerto has repeatedly voted to not become a state.

In the past, yes. But ...

"A referendum on the political status of Puerto Rico was held in Puerto Rico on June 11, 2017. The referendum had three options: becoming a state of the United States, independence/free association, or maintaining the current territorial status. Those who voted overwhelmingly chose statehood by 97%."
-- Wiki

Nice failure to link and creative editing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rican_status_referendum,_2017

Puerto Rican status referendum, 2017

A referendum on the political status of Puerto Rico was held in Puerto Rico on June 11, 2017.[1] The referendum had three options: becoming a state of the United States, independence/free association, or maintaining the current territorial status.[2] Those who voted overwhelmingly chose statehood by 97%; turnout, however, was 23%, a historically low figure.[3] This figure is attributed to a boycott led by the pro-status quo PPD party.[4]

Four previous referendums have been held on the island to decide on its political status, the most recent in 2012. Puerto Rico has been an unincorporated territory of the United States since the conclusion of the Spanish–American War in 1898, and its residents were granted U.S. citizenship in 1917.

nolu chan  posted on  2018-04-26   13:13:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: nolu chan (#23)

Nice failure to link and creative editing.

I put the text in quotes and attributed Wiki. I figured you knew how to get there.

misterwhite  posted on  2018-04-26   15:21:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: misterwhite (#24)

I put the text in quotes and attributed Wiki. I figured you knew how to get there.

And I did know how to go there and provided what it showed about what you did.

"Those who voted overwhelmingly chose statehood by 97%."

Of course, the original did not end with a period but, after a semi-colon, continued with information showing that the referendum result was nonsense.

"turnout, however, was 23%, a historically low figure.[3] This figure is attributed to a boycott led by the pro-status quo PPD party.[4]"

nolu chan  posted on  2018-04-26   19:15:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: nolu chan (#27)

Of course, the original did not end with a period but, after a semi-colon, continued with information showing that the referendum result was nonsense.

The 23% would be upset to hear their vote was "nonsense". I stopped where I did because I made my point.

Now, if you want to claim that, had the turnout been higher, the results would have been different, be my guest. BUT, that would be speculation, not fact.

misterwhite  posted on  2018-04-27   9:40:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 30.

#32. To: misterwhite (#30)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statehood_movement_in_Puerto_Rico

Referendum question and options

The 2017 referendum offered three options: Statehood, Independence/Free Association, and "Current Territorial Status". If the majority of the people voted for the Independence/Free Association, a second vote would have been held to determine the preference: full independence as a nation or associated free state status with independence but with a "free and voluntary political association" between Puerto Rico and the United States.[17]

The White House Task Force on Puerto Rico offers the following specifics:

“Free Association is a type of independence. A compact of Free Association would establish a mutual agreement that would recognize that the United States and Puerto Rico are closely linked in specific ways as detailed in the compact. Compacts of this sort are based on the national sovereignty of each country, and either nation can unilaterally terminate the association.[17]”

The Compact of Free Association would have covered topics such as the role of the U.S. military in Puerto Rico, the use of the U.S. currency, free trade between the two entities, and whether Puerto Ricans would be U.S. citizens.[18]

Governor Ricardo Rosselló was strongly in favor of statehood to help develop the economy and help to "solve our 500-year-old colonial dilemma ... Colonialism is not an option .... It’s a civil rights issue ... 3.5 million citizens seeking an absolute democracy," he told the news media.[19] Benefits of statehood include an additional $10 billion per year in federal funds, the right to vote in presidential elections, higher Social Security and Medicare benefits, and a right for its government agencies and municipalities to file for bankruptcy. The latter is currently prohibited.[1]

At approximately the same time as the referendum, Puerto Rico's legislators were expected to vote on a bill that would allow the Governor to draft a state constitution and hold elections to choose senators and representatives to the federal Congress. Regardless of the outcome of the referendum, action by the United States Congress would be necessary to implement changes to the status of Puerto Rico under the Territorial Clause of the United States Constitution.[20]

Boycott

The referendum was boycotted by all the major parties against statehood for several reasons. One reason is that the title of the ballot asserted that Puerto Rico is a colony.[a] The Popular Democratic Party (PPD) has historically rejected that notion. Similarly, under the option for maintaining the status quo, the ballot also asserted that Puerto Rico is subject to the plenary powers of the United States Congress, a notion also historically rejected by the PPD.[b] Likewise, under the 'independence/free association' option, the ballot asserted that Puerto Rico must be a sovereign nation in order to enter into a compact of free association with the United States.[c] Supporters of the free association movement reject this notion. Had these parties participated in the referendum, they claim it would mean they had accepted those assertions implicitly, regardless of whether the assertions were correct.

And so it came to pass, the dingbat party held a meaningless push-poll referendum and gained 97.18% approval for statehood. and the United States ignored it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statehood_movement_in_Puerto_Rico

Because there were almost 500,000 blank ballots in the 2012 referendum, creating confusion as to the voters' true desire, Congress decided to ignore the results.[33] The 2014 budget bill included $2.5 million in funding for a future referendum; there was no deadline attached to the funds.[34][35]

The fifth referendum, entitled "Plebiscite for the immediate decolonization of Puerto Rico" was held on June 11, 2017 and offered three options: "Statehood", "Free Association/Independence" and "Current Territorial Status", and the U.S. Justice Department required Puerto Rico to add the territorial status as an option as a requirement to release the $2.5 million funds set aside by the Obama administration to help educate the population on any future plebiscite, however the vote was held before the ballot could be reviewed, so the funds were not released.

The United States government even refused to release funds set aside in 2014 by the Obama administration to help educate the population on any future plebiscite.

I stopped where I did because I made my point.

Ah yes, your point was,

[nc] Puerto has repeatedly voted to not become a state.

[mw] In the past, yes. But ...

Well, in the past, and in every poll not utterly rejected due to the inclusion of bullshit content.

nolu chan  posted on  2018-04-27 17:46:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 30.

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