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Foreign Invaders crisis cost $150B in 2023, forcing some areas to cut police and fire services: report Israel kills head of Hezbollah Intelligence. Status: Not Logged In; Sign In International News See other International News Articles Title: Trump Launches Missile Strikes on Syria After Chemical Attack Source: [None] URL Source: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti ... as-expectations-of-strike-grow Published: Apr 13, 2018 Author: Jennifer Jacobs, Donna Nabu-Nasr, Daniel Post Date: 2018-04-13 21:29:24 by A K A Stone Keywords: None Views: 7735 Comments: 82 President Donald Trump said he launched missile strikes on Syria in retaliation for an apparent chemical attack by the regime of Bashar al-Assad on a rebel town. Trump said the missile strikes, which were focused on chemical weapons sites, would be carried out in coordination with France and the U.K. and he made clear that the U.S. is prepared to sustain the strikes until Syria stops using chemical weapons. The president also blasted Iraq and Russia for supporting Assad’s regime, particularly in the wake of the chemical attack. Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 74. #1. To: A K A Stone (#0) I sure hope he has the evidence to back it up paraclete  posted on  2018-04-13   21:41:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #32. To: paraclete (#1) I sure hope he has the evidence to back it up. He has nothing but rumor. Trump is a blasted, damned fool! Who needs evidence at a time such as this. All you need is supposition and bull shit to do what you want, including get us into WW111. rlk  posted on  2018-04-14   18:18:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #33. To: rlk (#32) all you need is supposition and bull shit to do what you want, including get us into WW111. Yes Trump is a tool of the military/industrial complex. He has made a restrained response which will be taken as weakness by Assad and Putin. Madam May is making much of the opportunity to ramp up the rhetoric against the Russians linking gas in Syria to nerve agents in the UK paraclete  posted on  2018-04-14   18:52:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #34. To: paraclete (#33) He has made a restrained response which will be taken as weakness by Assad and Putin. Assad and Putin are very, very smart (they would not be where they are, if they didn't). They understand the situation of Trump well. probably they sympathize with him. A Pole  posted on  2018-04-14   19:14:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #35. To: A Pole (#34) Assad and Putin are very, very smart Putin might be smart or just cunning, Assad didn't get the job by being smart, like Kim he took over from his daddy and has succeeded in pissing off his people, not smart, devastating his country, not smart paraclete  posted on  2018-04-14   21:40:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #39. To: paraclete, Vicomte13, Tooconservative, sneakypete, Pinguinite (#35) Assad didn't get the job by being smart, like Kim he took over from his daddy and has succeeded in pissing off his people, not smart, devastating his country, not smart I wonder how long you would last in his place, I think couple days at most. You have a set of templates from the cartoons and more cheesy Hollywood movies and are conditioned like a Pavlovian dog. You cannot point to a country on the map or spell its name, but you know the character of the rogue leader better than his closest family. Strange thing, each of those designated rogues is IDENTICAL to the others. Saddam, Milosevic, Allende, Noriega, Milosevic, Putin, Kim, ... No matter that earlier they could have had a different role assigned, memory is flexible. A Pole  posted on  2018-04-15   4:31:22 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #44. To: A Pole, paraclete, Vicomte13, sneakypete, Pinguinite (#39) (Edited) Assad didn't get the job by being smart, like Kim he took over from his daddy and has succeeded in pissing off his people, not smart, devastating his country, not smart Assad was not expected to take over the regime, his brother who got killed was groomed for the role, much as Joe Kennedy Junior was the son that old Joe wanted to run for prez. When he got killed in the remote-controlled bomber over England, JFK was his father's pick to run for prez. Assad did become a qualified ophthalmologist after medical training in Britain. I never read any complaints about his professional qualifications so he must have been fairly bright and had basic competence. And he does seem to be pretty intelligent, maybe a little on the autism scale. Something about his appearance and behavior makes me think that when I do see him on TV, despite how carefully they control any video of him that we can see in the West. However, Assad is the figurehead of his country's military/political elite. Exactly as Kim Jong-Il is. In either case, even if we drove the "dictator" from power, the (primarily) military regime would simply select another figurehead as ruler. There is no other way to rule a country that is so culturally and religiously divided as Syria is. In some respects, Putin plays the same role in Russia. He just didn't inherit the role from Daddy. If you want an American example of this, look at how Rand Paul mostly inherited his father's political base. And Rand is, like Assad, an ophthalmologist. Tooconservative  posted on  2018-04-15   13:49:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #45. To: Tooconservative (#44) Assad was not expected to take over the regime, his brother who got killed was groomed for the role, much as Joe Kennedy Junior was the son that old Joe wanted to run for prez. When he got killed in the remote-controlled bomber over England, JFK was his father's pick to run for prez. Assad did become a qualified ophthalmologist after medical training in Britain. I never read any complaints about his professional qualifications so he must have been fairly bright and had basic competence. And he does seem to be pretty intelligent, maybe a little on the autism scale. Something about his appearance and behavior makes me think that when I do see him on TV, despite how carefully they control any video of him that we can see in the West. However, Assad is the figurehead of his country's military/political elite. Exactly as Kim Jong-Il is. In either case, even if we drove the "dictator" from power, the (primarily) military regime would simply select another figurehead as ruler. There is no other way to rule a country that is so culturally and religiously divided as Syria is. In some respects, Putin plays the same role in Russia. He just didn't inherit the role from Daddy. If you want an American example of this, look at how Rand Paul mostly inherited his father's political base. And Rand is, like Assad, an ophthalmologist. Why is America involved with Syria? buckeroo  posted on  2018-04-15   13:55:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #46. To: buckeroo (#45) It's...complicated. Trump wants out. But he also doesn't want to look weak. He isn't the first prez with exactly this problem. Tooconservative  posted on  2018-04-15   14:00:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #47. To: Tooconservative (#46) It's...complicated. How does American involvement in Syrian internal affairs ensure a defensive posture for Americans? Did they bomb the USA or were the USA invited by Syria to be there? buckeroo  posted on  2018-04-15   14:08:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #51. To: buckeroo (#47) They slaughter their own people and support terrorism against our allies. Therefore, their government needs to go. Also, if the government is overthrown and replaced with something more pro-American, the Russian base there can be closed - and that is the only Russian naval anchorage in the Mediterranean. Poor Russians. Vicomte13  posted on  2018-04-15   21:50:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #52. To: Vicomte13 (#51) Also, if the government is overthrown and replaced with something more pro-American, the Russian base there can be closed - and that is the only Russian naval anchorage in the Mediterranean. Poor Russians. The poor Russians have enough nukes to virtually destroy the entire USA and probably Europe too, so they are not that "poor". Best not to attempt to back a nuke power into a corner. And they have the Crimea back, so they still have Met access. Pinguinite  posted on  2018-04-15   21:58:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #54. To: Pinguinite (#52) The poor Russians have enough nukes to virtually destroy the entire USA and probably Europe too, so they are not that "poor". Best not to attempt to back a nuke power into a corner. And they have the Crimea back, so they still have Met access. As I said: their military option is to blow up the world, including themselves. Sure, they can commit suicide (and wake up in Hell after doing it), but they don't have any option. As far as Med access goes, take another look at the map. Sevastopol is on the Black Sea. To get to the Med they have to steam through the Dardanelles inside of NATO ally Turkey. And once they get to the other side, in the NATO-ally Greece's private lake called the Aegean, with Syria gone they have nowhere to base, nowhere to refuel, nowhere to repair. Their underway replenishment capability is very weak. So sure, they can send a fleet past Istanbul, in peacetime, and float around in the Med until they run out of fuel and food. They can't stay there very long, and in a war scenario, they can't get their fleet out of the Black Sea, or back into it if it's in the Med. The loss of Syria would be a massive blow to their strategic position. They need to negotiate. I'm sure that leaving them a Guantanamo Bay type of arrangement regarding their Syrian base can be worked out that doesn't require Assad to sit there. But maybe not. Poor Russia has nuclear weapons - and that's all they've got. Nuclear weapons give them the option of being a suicide bomber - blowing up the whole world, themselves included - in a tantrum. They would do that if armies were closing in on Moscow. So would the French is armies were closing in on Paris. But over Syria? Nah. The Russians will not commit suicide over Syria. They'll take their lumps and be angry and move on. Vicomte13  posted on  2018-04-16   7:48:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #60. To: Vicomte13, TooConservative (#54) As I said: their military option is to blow up the world, including themselves. Sure, they can commit suicide (and wake up in Hell after doing it), but they don't have any option. When you "corner"someone, that's when they run out of options. Turkey is not exactly a foe of Russia. Russia is selling them S-300 systems, much to the chagrin of the US. The loss of Syria would be a massive blow to their strategic position. They need to negotiate. Putin WANTS to negotiate. But it's the west that is completely refusing to do so. Putin instead simply being push and shoved, again and again and again. The west doesn't care at all about anything Putin has to say. According to the west, "negotiation" means only one thing: Shut up, get back in the fucking line and do what we say! And you *know* that's true. Latest word on Skripal case: The chem used was not Novichok. It was instead something called "BZ", which was known to be developed only in NATO countries and the USA. That bolsters Russia's claim of non-involvement, and compromises the west's decision to expel the 120 or so diplomats by not only the US & UK, but a dozen or more other western allies that are at risk of being severely embarrassed as having been proven to be mere puppets of the USA. And we'll see what the International inspectors will say about Douma. Russia has boldly claimed there is no evidence any chem attack even occurred. What's in the videos we've all seen could have been merely a hysteria response, if not staged outright. The "disturbing" video doesn't even show a single person or child suffering any effects of any chemical agent. It shows only a few adults and kids getting watered down and administered eye drops and inhalers. Poor Russia has nuclear weapons - and that's all they've got. That's not exactly true. It seems to me Russia has focused their much smaller military budget on strategic offensive weaponry and tactical defensive weaponry, mainly in missile and torpedo tech. They may well be leading the world in such areas. And that's to be expected as they simply don't have the budget to spend money on boondoggle projects as the US is doing with the F-35 program. The US invests in military areas they believe will help them push their influence offensively worldwide. New carriers, big fleets. The Russians instead are investing in tech that can sink fleets, which is much cheaper than the fleets themselves. Will they use it? Doubtful. Just as the USA will, doubtfully, attack Russia outright. But you know what Vic? Maybe the best advantage Russia has is, is in the so-called "propaganda" war. Russia is gaining sympathy and the US is losing it. I'll use myself in this example. I'm pissed off. I'm pissed at Trump. I was his supporter. Whereas before I was enthusiastic about Trump beating Hillary, I'm now taking a "what can be salvaged" type view of Trump. I find myself instead viewing Putin and Assad as underdogs and victims of a huge misinformation campaign and war promoted by a very real Deep State that has successfully taken Trump down. I, as an American citizen who has never set foot in Russia, on an emotional level have almost completely sided with Russia and Putin, that based on my sickening disappointment with the absolute injustice dispensed on Putin and Assad with with what I see as non-credible accusations of their using chem weapons in the UK and now Douma, both accusations not making any sense whatsoever for their complete lack of credible motive. And while I don't believe that there is a large segment of Americans that feel the degree of sympathy for Assad and Putin as I do right now, there's no question that Trump has disappointed a great many of his supporters with this Syrian strike as it violated everything he passionately broadcast as a candidate. In my view, this stike on Syria did more damage to Trump's support base than it did to Syria. What's happening is that Trump's support base is changing and I'll use TooConservative here as an example, without his permission and in accordance with my own recollection. TC hated trump with an absolute passion. He didn't vote for him. He could not say enough things here on this very forum about how disgusting he was. After Trump won, TC did a flip on these negative sentiments, and I gather from his posts that he approves of the strike on Syria and is probably now a dedicated fan. I think TC represents more of the traditional Republican Bush-supporter type base, as perhaps you do as well, and I represented the base that was opposed to the Deep State, the swamp and all it represents. But it was my base that put Trump in office, not TC's. And now Trump has traded his original support base that won him the presidency for the Bush-era base that failed against Obama. As I see it, you two are cheering for the Deep State swamp, Bush era war mongering, and I by contrast, have virtually transferred all sympathy I once had for US interests to Russia. How many more are like me? That's a good question, but I know I'm not alone. Putin still has his naysayers here on this very forum who simply write off Putin as a former KGB agent who will perpetually be up to Soviet era domination for as long as he lives. I would speculate that there's not 1 American in 100 who hates Putin who has ever heard a single word the man has had to say. But that's changing. I do believe Putin is, in spite of his history, a reasonably good guy, that based on what I have taken the time to actually hear him say (translated of course). He does not want world war. He does not want confrontation with the west. He is doing the best he can against a juggernaut of fake news and an American Deep State beast that has conscripted even the defiant Trump into it's array of swamp minions. So when one tallies up the strengths & weaknesses of Russia vs the USA, do take public sentiment into consideration along with all that goes with it, and not just military capability. So I'll have a toast to Putin and Assad. May they prevail. Pinguinite  posted on  2018-04-16   11:07:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #65. To: Pinguinite, TooConservative (#60) As I see it, you two are cheering for the Deep State swamp, Bush era war mongering, and I by contrast, have virtually transferred all sympathy I once had for US interests to Russia. I will let TC speak for himself, and he has. As for me, if you're seeing a Republican here, you're misreading me. I'm not a Republican. Nor am I a Democrat. I'm not an independent by cussedness - I would happily join a party that stood for the things I think are important, but neither do. So my voting reflects a "best on offer" approach. Usually that's the Republicans, though when Ross Perot ran the first time, he was. The things I think are important cut across party lines, and some of them are supported by neither party. Both parties pay lip service to some of them. The majority of Americans do not agree with most of them, so I recognize that I am not going see political victory on several of these them, and maybe any of them, in my lifetime, and maybe not until the end of the world. If there were another country where I could have these things, I would consider emigrating. One of the things that is important to me relates to foreign policy and killing people. As my own views are not the policy purpose of any of the parties or players, there's no point in my elaborating. Suffice it to say that I am in favor of removing murderous dictators, for a variety of reasons, and I think that the current state of Iraq and Libya are both preferable to what existed there under their strongmen. To me, it has nothing to do with the Deep State. Vicomte13  posted on  2018-04-16   12:42:10 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #67. To: Vicomte13, Pinguinite (#65) ...and I think that the current state of Iraq and Libya are both preferable to what existed there under their strongmen. You're dead wrong and I can't see why you don't perceive it. Both Iraq and Libya are human rights disasters and failed states. Despite the police-state tactics, what has followed has been much worse than the dictators. For that matter, the same is true in Egypt but to a lesser degree. And we've seen Turkey descend into a more religious state with a neo-Ottoman dictator but who is yet considered to be a valid ally of NATO. Tooconservative  posted on  2018-04-16   13:10:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #69. To: Tooconservative (#67) You're dead wrong and I can't see why you don't perceive it. Both Iraq and Libya are human rights disasters and failed states. Despite the police-state tactics, what has followed has been much worse than the dictators. Do you WANT to understand how I perceive it? I don't imagine it being a very pleasant conversation, at least not for me. You're SURE of your views on this. So am I, but my views are a balance of factors. In essence, these places were terrible before, and they're terrible now, but the nature of the terrible is more diffuse and less controlled. Now, that sounds worse - except that before, under the dictators, the dictators used the power and coordinated unity and wealth of their nations to DO specific things - and those specific things were often directly opposed to the United States, and resulted in the deaths of our servicemen in various places to terror, or in supporting terror attacks on our allies, or hiding the terrorists, or the direct shooting at our planes (in the case of Iraq). Had the dictators contented themselves to rule their countries and NOT shoot at our planes, or mess with us and our interests, I would be inclined to agree that a thug who was quiet when it came to things that matter to US, was probably slightly better for his people than anarchy and chaos (though by all means not good). However, once you shoot missiles at our planes, or blow up a Berlin nightclub in Berlin, or bring down an airliner over Scotland, You Must Die. Period. However long it takes. If you strike directly at the United Statss, then you must not die in bed of old age. You must die a violent death, and you must understand that the United States "got you" - so that every other dictator in the world sees and understands that we are a much greater power, we WILL invade countries, that Russia is NOT powerful enough to save you or stop us. If you attack the United States, you have to die. That means breaking your country. So be it. Libya is broken. And Iraq went through hell. And that mess is better than the dictators, because in the mess, the whole might of a nation cannot be mustered to give the finger, in front of the international community, to the United States. Those countries, through their dictators, gave the finger to the US and killed our people and our allies. Therefore, they now lie in ruins, the dictators are dead, and the people of those countries themselves are the ones doing the suffering and the dying. There is a lesson in that - a very important one to the Kim Jong Uns of the world. Fidel Castro actually got that message. He used words, but he didn't shoot at the USA, and he didn't send terrorists to blow up American airplanes. I don't like the government of Belarus much, but as long as the Belarussians keep the peace with us and our allies, their dictator can sleep at night. If they blow up a Paris nightclub and bring down a British Airways jetliner over Nepal, then sooner or later we will break Belarus. That's the way it goes, and I think it is very, very important. You don't get away with blowing up Americans and our allies. If you think you are going to, then the lesson has to be taught again and again and again. Some people do get it. I recognize that you don't agree with the logic. But that is why I think what I think. Libyans suffering in a trashed Libya, if that's what it takes to take out Khadafi, is preferable to letting a guy who blew up a jetliner, killed US soldiers in a nightclub, and set up fighters to fight our planes flying in the ocean, sit there comfortably amassing power and using it as he pleases. Vicomte13  posted on  2018-04-16   13:50:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #74. To: Vicomte13 (#69) Vic, you went on a tangent that I wasn't exactly veering toward... But be that what it may, if your position is to react with superior force against our enemy, I'm with you. The problems are many; First you must identify the "Enemies"; In the case of defining the "Enemy" as "Terror", I'm afraid Dubya Bush's BS doesn't cut it. Neither does declaring "war" on Muzzie splinter cults. Qaddafi paid the price for his aggression and had been cooperative if not at peace with the US for several years. The Libyan people seemed content and relatively sedate (as a bunch of Muzzies could be.) Saddam was a murderous SOB, as were his sons, but he governed more secular. Christians' rights were observed. The responsibility for removing him was with...The Iraqi People. It was NOT Iraq who started any war with or on the USA; THAT would be Dubya Bush and 0bama's best friends, the SAUDIS who declared war on the USA. And you'll notice that NO war was declared on Saudi Arabia after 911, despite 15 of 19 ID'd terrorists were Saudi. Why was the full invasion and destruction reserved for IRAQ? (Could it be for financial considerations of US firms rebuilding Iraq?) The US had NO justification in invading Iraq; Just as 0bama's US Monkey Business operatives had NO business fomenting "Arab Spring" revolutions. BOTH Iraq and Libya were far more stable wit their respective strongmen at the helm. Now? Those voids WILL be filled, likely by radical Islamic Cult groups. Liberator  posted on  2018-04-16   20:19:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   Replies to Comment # 74. #78. To: Liberator (#74) BOTH Iraq and Libya were far more stable wit their respective strongmen at the helm. Now? Those voids WILL be filled, likely by radical Islamic Cult groups. No. Iraq will be governed by Shi'ites, who are religiously oriented towards their equivalent of the Pope, the Grand Ayatollah in Iran. This will mean Iraq skews naturally towards Iran. Iran is a stable country, as was Iraq under Saddam (as you have pointed out). So, Iraq will be a Muslim republic, like Iran is, and it will be aligned in sympathies with Iran. And US planes will be able to overfly, and to base there, and they won't be shooting at our planes or slaughtering their people internally. Iraq is better off now than it was under Saddam, both for the majority of the people there, and for us. Libya is far to the west and exposed. We can control that place if we need to. Syria...well, we need to come to a deal with Russia. The Russians can keep their port. If Assad stays, he has to (a) fight terror, (b) not sponsor terror against us or Israel. That about tidies it up. All of our pre-war enemies have been broken, and a lot has changed. Radical Islam lost. Vicomte13  posted on  2018-04-17 10:50:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   End Trace Mode for Comment # 74. Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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