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Title: 2001: A Space Odyssey returning to theaters in 70mm for 50th anniversary
Source:
Consequence of Sound
URL Source: https://consequenceofsound.net/2018 ... -in-70mm-for-50th-anniversary/
Published: Apr 2, 2018
Author: Ben Kaye
Post Date: 2018-04-04 07:37:17 by Deckard
Keywords: None
Views: 6818
Comments: 67
If you’re half crazy all for the love of Stanley Kubrick’s sci-fi masterpiece 2001: A Space Odyssey, you’re in luck. To mark its 50th anniversary, Warner Bros.’ is opening its archives’ pod bay doors to present a theatrical re-release of the film. Docking in select theaters on May 18th, WB’s reissue is an “unrestored” 70mm print “struck from new printing elements made from the original camera negative,” according to a studio statement (via The Wrap). “This is a true photochemical film recreation. There are no digital tricks, remastered effects, or revisionist edits.” That means the movie will be presented in a way that’s as close to Kubrick’s original vision as possible. (Read: Ranking: Every Stanley Kubrick Film from Worst to Best) This new 70mm print will make its debut at Cannes Film Festival with an introduction from Christopher Nolan. The director called the chance to introduce one of his favorite works of cinema in “all its analog glory… an honor and a privilege.” A fully restored version of 2001 will also be available on DVD and Blu-ray later this year. Revisit the original trailer below. "Unrestored" version will feature no digital tricks, remastered effects, or revisionist edits"
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#27. To: Pinguinite, tooconservative (#25)
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Yes, and that is a simple but BEST argument one can make for cynicism. WHY wouldn't that photo have been festooning every front page, magazine, and book by the latest, the early 1970s?? WHY wasn't there a spread of these types of photos THEN?? WHY wouldn't subsequent Apollo missions MAKE IT A PRIORITY to develop special lens and filters and snap thousands of these types of photos, including MUCH clearer, more definitive shots of the moonscape?
Thank you. However, I am not able to access the link.
Absolutely. You've certainly noted my analysis of that photo as well. It does not seem real to me. In addition, the earth seems exceptionally high in resolution, which suggest more modern optics. I do not suggest we accept the word of anyone, or anything, claiming to be speaking for the truth. But that does not mean that anyone with an agenda is speaking lies. I very much favor studying content as part of making the determination of whether a claim is true or not. I will do it with the moon landing. And I will do it with the Bible. As an aside, why are you so quick to doubt the word of modern "authorities" about the moon landing, but accept without doubt the word of ancient biblical writers on the nature of God? How do you resolve that seeming inconsistency? I'm first to agree MSM can't be trusted. As a present example, I do not believe Russia or Putin was behind the Skripal nerve agent poisoning. It makes no sense at all. Of all Americans that have ill-regard for Putin, I'd say not one in 100 has ever heard or read a single word he's uttered. From what I have observed, Putin is a good man interested in peace, highly intelligent, doing great things for Russia, and very much on the defensive from Western expansionism over the last 15 years. He's also one we should be thankful is running Russia. If it were instead someone of the likes of Hillary, WW3 may have already started. Though some do claim he's murdered journalists, it appears from all else Putin is truly a good man at heart and deserves that considered possibility. That aside, and back to topic..... The penalty of discredit for an observatory would be severe. These are scientists, and about the worst crime scientists could be convicted of is purposely releasing false information about their science to the public as though it was real information. I am serious is saying that is a real deterrent. For the degree of conspiracy you propose, it would require extreme amount of trust for one compromised scientist to trust hundreds or thousands of other scientists to not debunk them. This is not to say scientists cannot be biased in their research which can skew their results. They certainly can be. But I'm not talking about bias. I'm talking about outright fraud. I've not researched those. Perhaps they are best left for another day. Perhaps also left for another discussion. But from what I currently understand, it's no surprise to me that no stars are visible on 1970's alleged moon landing photos. Which while obstructing no starlight, also obstructs no sun light. The moon surface would have been brighter than death valley at noon, so the relative difference in light strength would have been, more or less, the same. No, as "earth rise" was photoed from the lunar orbiter as earth appeared over a moon horizon. As the moon is tidally locked to earth, moon inhabitants would never see the earth rise as we on earth see the moon rise.
I didn't notice the link, but it works for me: www.skyandtelescope.com/o...pollo-moon-landing-sites/ And from the map of moon landing sites, assuming they are correct, it appears as I expected that none of them are on the edge of the moon as viewed from earth, which would pretty much certify that the photo TC provided is indeed a fake. But that wouldn't prove the moon landings were faked. It could have simply been someone's artistic creation.
There are several moon photos very similar to this one, very famous. I can't explain why you haven't seen them before. Maybe you should stop pouring over those Trutherish Jonesy sites and look around more.
You seem to think that the moon is in a geosynchronous orbit. It isn't. Or we wouldn't have tidal effect at all.
WHY wasn't there a spread of these types of photos THEN?? Contrary to your impressions, only the first Apollo mission was followed closely by the public. After that, nada. Few people even know which Apollo mission was the last one. Do you? Here's another shot, this time from Apollo 15. Notice the lunar rover they used for the last 3 moon missions. Also that big-ass mountain and the shadows on it. Later missions were more adventurous about where they landed. By the time the last one came along, they were doing extensive geology field work miles away from their lunar lander. But by then, no one was watching. No one knows any of their names either.
Virtually all photography from space is enhanced in various ways. It always has been. Space really doesn't like lenses and film. Almost every space photo you've ever seen was manipulated in some way. Since the Eighties, it has been digital manipulation.
No, tidally locked and geosynchronous orbit are not the same thing. The same side of the moon always faces the earth as the moon orbits the earth. That means if you go to the moon and sit down and watch the earth, it will always be in the same location in the moon sky It will not rise, it will not set. It will simply sit there, unmoving, except you will see it spin against a moving starry background. The sun will rise and set once per month, but the earth will not. In effect, the earth is in lunarsynchronous orbit around the moon the same way TV broadcast satellites are in geosychronous orbit around the earth. For that reason, the lunar landing sites will similarly never see the earth rise or set on them. As all the landing locations on the moon are near central on the moon as viewed from earth, the astronauts there would have had to look near straight up or somewhat close to straight up to see the earth and would never have seen the earth on the moon horizon, that no matter what time of month or year they would have gone there. That would explain why few, if any photos from the landing sites would include Earth in the background. I am of the opinion the moon landings were not faked, but I think the first photo you posted is faked.
Few people even know which Apollo mission was the last one. Do you? Well, we are in complete agreement that the first Apollo mission was followed extremely closely. Many of us still recall watching that fuzzy transmission that was so disappointing and so "meh." Yes, the public followed the Apollo mission in so far as they were allowed to "follow" it. (which is to say, minimal info was released, including technical, photographically, as well as insulation of personal interviews, testimony, and impressions by and of the astronauts.) For having just succeeding at completing THE greatest feat by humans ever, this accomplishment was under-reported and when it was reported it was measured and controlled to the extreme. This should have had the nation and world buzzing for YEARS afterward. But as you note, it lost its fizz quickly. COULD the reason be...the public was starved of info by design? (Because the entire project IF scrutinized would have failed to answer too many obviously un-answerable questions?) In this case the MSM as The Messenger either had no message, OR was ordered to stand down on continued close reporting. Till the day he died, Neil Armstrong never gave more than a bland, non-detailed, uninspired account of his "accomplishment." And NO real interview. Odd, wouldn't you say? Meanwhile Buzz Aldrin, the supposed second man to walk on he moon by many accounts had mental problems afterward. WHY?? Can you or anyone explain why so few photographs were released of the Earth from the Moon? EVER? Where is the video? And yes, isn't it curious how and why after the alleged first "Lunar Landing" subsequent landings were so obviously ignored by Media and documentarians? Later missions were more adventurous about where they landed. By the time the last one came along, they were doing extensive geology field work miles away from their lunar lander. But by then, no one was watching. No one knows any of their names either. Yes, it was noted that after the first Apollo mission, no one was watching. They were virtually ignored. CONSPICUOUSLY SO. One naturally must ask: "WHY WAS THIS THE CASE??" I don't buy, "Meh. Been there, done that." Or boredom. And yes, the identities of subsequent astronauts who supposedly landed on the moon *should* have been known. WELL KNOWN. But, for another odd reason they weren't, aren't, and NOT interviewed, haven't written books on the experience, etc. Conspicuous indeed. The public had initially been served up a few foggy photographs; Armstrong's "First steps for mankind" was aired on a tape delay, the video abysmally obscured and fuzzy. If anything, the public should have been far more hungry for additional video and info from the moon. Most were. But since the Media is THE conduit from which "news" is disseminated, the public's hunger for additional data and pictures was unrequited forever more. As if the Gummint and NASA said, "Here's a teaspoon of what we've accomplished of THE most AMAZING FEAT IN HUMAN HISTORY. That's should suffice." I ask: Does this make any sense?? Is there any video or film FROM the moon and the view of planet Earth from any of the Apollo projects? It should be voluminous. AND clear. But if there were issues of problems with photography or video, why then wouldn't they have been resolved with special lens? If we could send a man to the moon, why could they solve the lens problem?? From a technical and safety aspect, just how did those astronauts survive the Van Allen Radiation Belt?
https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?p=how+we+know+the+moon+landings+weren%27t+faked&ei=UTF-8&hspart=SGMedia&hsimp=yhs-sgm_fb&type=fx&p=how+we+know+the+moon+landings+weren%27t+faked
But the moon can appear over the top of a nearby mountain. The last mission or two, they were near some smallish mountains.
I don't care. I also don't care about your Truthery moon landing CTs.
Looking at the moon landing locations from the Sky & Telescope link, the attitude at which the earth would appear from those locations should be determinable from how close the locations are to the center of the moon. From dead center, one would need to look directly up to look back at the earth. From a site on the extreme horizon, the earth would also appear on the moon horizon, as the first photo depicted. The Apollo 17 spot looks a little more that midway off center, so I'd expect earth to appear about 40-45 degrees elevated off the horizon from there, quite possibly in camera frame with a mountain. It would take some geometry to figure out what the attitude of the earth would be from various spots but I don't doubt that some moon photos could show the earth above a mountain, at least for Apollo 17. But that's more doubtful for Apollo 16, as that site is more centered.
I don't care. More NASA staff coming forward about Apollo, acknowledging the Van Allen Belts USAF Col. Terry Virts, ISS Commander, NASA astronaut "We only can fly in Earth orbit." “Well, that is a great question. The plan that NASA has is to build a rocket called SLS (Space Launch System) which is a heavy-lift rocket, it is something that is much bigger than what we have today and it will be able to launch the Orion capsule with humans on board as well as landers or other components to destinations beyond earth orbit. Bill Kaysing John H. Mauldin has a bachelor's degree in engineering physics (Cornell University, master's in physics (Purdue University), and Ph.D. in science education (University of Texas). He has four books published in science and technology covering mathematical graphics in Perspective Design (1985; second edition now being prepared), physics in Particles in Nature (1986), solar energy in Sunspaces (1987), and optics in Light, Lasers, and Optics (1988). He has taught physics and engineering at several colleges and universities, done education research and development at MIT and University of Texas, and worked at NASA in electronic power engineering on an early phase of the Voyager missions. Cosmic particles are dangerous, come from all sides, and require at least 2 meters of solid shielding all around living organisms. Solar (or star) flares of protons, an occasional and severe hazard on the way out of and into planetary systems, can give doses of hundreds to thousands of REM over a few hours at the distance of Earth [b-Lorr]. Such does are fatal and millions of times greater than the permitted dose. Death is likely after 500 REMs in any short time. The Apollo capsule was not even 1/10 meter thick, the Van Allen Belts have over 100 REM/hour, so the astronauts could not have survived going to the Moon. The selection of materials is very important. You act as though mere thickness means anymore than piece of writing paper.
Back in high school, I think you liked all those problems in geometry class. You could probably invent a whole series of interesting geometry problems from those old moon photos. For instance, held at arm's length (3'), when seen from the moon, is the earth closer to the size of a golf ball, a tennis ball, a baseball, a softball, a soccer ball or a basketball? I'm thinking between the size of a softball and a soccer ball but I could be very wrong. And I'm too lazy to try to solve it with geometry after so many years. Notice that these are cropped and zoomed photos also, like a lot of those photos were. The earth occupies a very small portion of the sky when seen from the moon. Of course, the earth is only 8,000 miles in diameter and should look really small when viewed from over 250,000 miles away. And so you have Neil Armstrong with a telephoto lens to solve that problem. The earth when seen from the moon should look about 4 times bigger than the moon when seen from the earth.
It's not my problem how many times you got dropped on your head when you were a baby.
Math was MY thing. I think I was the top student in all 4 of my geometry teacher's classes. I really struggled with English classes though. That was one thing I also noticed in the photo you posted. I don't think the earth would appear that big. But yes, a telephoto lens can make distant objects look bigger than they really are. From the image you posted, it seems earth would appear 4x wider, so you'd have to square that to get the area, making it take up 16x more of the night sky. Very noticeable and it would be a beautiful sight, especially compared to what the moon surface has to offer.
Yeah, I thought so. You talk like an engineer or math-lover. You collect facts for the purpose of rational problem-solving as a habit. We regularly see TV/films in which the sun rises or the moon is visible and they fill the entire screen (or more than fill it). Yet we don't object to those. Why shouldn't moonwalkers like the Apollo astronauts have the same artistic freedom to zoom in on the object of interest in a photo? "All right, Mr. DeMille, I'm ready for my close-up." - Norma Desmond Anything with color would look good to a human on the moon. It didn't matter much back in the Sixties that the moon videos were only in black and white because that is all that the moon has anyway. Earth looks so beautiful over a lunar landscape because it does have the rich color we crave.
Gnu, we can volley a bunch of pro/anti links all day. There are many that make the case for both sides. I respect the opinions of those who believe we went to the moon. All I'm saying -- after having perused and analyzed countless article and videos from others who delved head first into this -- is that the evidence suggests these lunar landing and NASA projects seem...NOT to have actually happened. How is it that 50 years ago we supposedly went to the moon several times but can't manage to do so NOW?? With today's technology no less. Not even with an unmanned lunar lander?? If you get past the initial annoying 10 seconds, this video is an easy watch and makes all the sense in the world. Legit points are made. NASA is already involved in several ongoing satellites and projects cruising through our solar system. But NOT the obvious project: THE MOON. (we haven't explored it with any high-tech contemporary instruments, have we? Manned OR Un-Manned.) The author makes a number of reasons and cases are made for NASA to simply launch and land an unmanned space craft to land on the moon, right at one of any of the same exact sites where we'd already allegedly have already landed. (THAT certainly would settle the question for legions of cynics once and for all, wouldn't it?) But then also -- NASA can then place a high-tech, hi-def camera with appropriate filters on its lens...and have it remain on the planet to video Planet Earth and Live-Stream it in real-time. (It could also videotape the lunar landscape as the remote lander rolls around, as on Mars.) The potential for such a project is spectacular.
Pluto used to be measured at closer to the same size as Mercury. It always amazed me that certain planetary moons -- like Jupiter, could be bigger than some planets. LOVED Astronomy while in elementary school. And in particular, the planets, their respective size and distance from the sun. (My mother worked at a new book depository where I was fortunate in that she was able to bring home many free books in all the subjects I preferred (Space/Dinosaurs/Sports/WW2, etc.) SEVERAL books were about space ships and the the planets. I STILL have those Space Ship books, published in the late 1950s, and even more fascinating now.) A project of mine in 6th Grade was to demonstrate both their proportional size as well as distance to the sun from the confines of our class room. Pluto would up in some neighboring lady's yard.)
Absolutely. You've certainly noted my analysis of that photo as well. It does not seem real to me. In addition, the earth seems exceptionally high in resolution, which suggest more modern optics. Yup. I know you've made allowance for the possibility high-tech tampering and shenanigans that are so easy to pull off these days.... Planet Earth is seen in extremely hi-def in that photo as you noted, suggesting modern optics. I do not suggest we accept the word of anyone, or anything, claiming to be speaking for the truth. But that does not mean that anyone with an agenda is speaking lies. I very much favor studying content as part of making the determination of whether a claim is true or not. I will do it with the moon landing. And I will do it with the Bible. As an aside, why are you so quick to doubt the word of modern "authorities" about the moon landing, but accept without doubt the word of ancient biblical writers on the nature of God? How do you resolve that seeming inconsistency? There is of course validity to what you claim on the subject of agendas that aren't necessarily based on lies. The claims *could* be made on what is perceived as THE truth, which we agree isn't the same. With respect to the claims of the Bible and the matter of "inconsistencies," can you be more specific? For now I'll briefly (for me) address it/them. But we have other ground to cover as well :-) Yes, belief in Scripture from Adam and Eve to Jesus' Resurrection and Return, AND Gospel requires faith. But then I would also submit that NO belief or claims in history are as sourced with multiple testimony and proof of corroboration. Bible-believing people are NOT robotic zombies who do not seek truth and scientific evidence. That is purely myth. IF the subject of "truth" surely interests you -- and you've already stated that it does indeed -- I highly recommend the purchase a Study Bible -- 'The MacArthur Study Bible' specifically. You would be blown away by its attention to the most minute of detail and corroboration of fact and testimony; questions you now doubt still have. You see, one can read the Bible from cover-to-cover and STILL not understand much of it (ironically.) Any comparison of measuring the same criteria of questions and answers with respect to the Bible to those of NASA to be frank is ludicrous (with all due respect.) One is 100% transparent and backed up by eye-witness testimony -- more amazing in that the tabs were maintained for thousands of years BY NAME, DEED, and chronology. The account is told, learned and believed by Free Will. The other is supported by fuzzy details, minimal corroboration and testimony as well as by political and economic motivation and coercion. It does NOT welcome scrutiny. NASA dismisses challenges and demands for details. ANY and ALL Truth must stand up to strict standards of extreme scrutiny. With respect to the scribes aka "men" of the Bible (the Author is God Himself), they and the prophets spoke and transcribed God's own words. Many have conceded this; There is no subterfuge here. Bible Scribes vs. NASA Advocates. Are they really analogous? One abides in The Altruistic and Spiritual at the highest degree vs. the Other which operates from a Material/Ppolitical/Scientific agenda. As a positive aside, I could also say the same Altruistic goals motivates those like you who believe in "The Newton Model" in principle -- even though I don't subscribe to its "model." While I don't believe those who subscribe to the "Moon Landings" are necessarily anti-altruistic or subscribe to a particular agenda, they may be prone to accepting 'authority" without too closely examining or scrutinizing the facts or "proof" OR...the possibility/plausibility of political/economic agendas. Again, this is merely MY opinion. I'm first to agree MSM can't be trusted. As a present example, I do not believe Russia or Putin was behind the Skripal nerve agent poisoning. It makes no sense at all. Of all Americans that have ill-regard for Putin, I'd say not one in 100 has ever heard or read a single word he's uttered. From what I have observed, Putin is a good man interested in peace, highly intelligent, doing great things for Russia, and very much on the defensive from Western expansionism over the last 15 years. He's also one we should be thankful is running Russia. If it were instead someone of the likes of Hillary, WW3 may have already started. Though some do claim he's murdered journalists, it appears from all else Putin is truly a good man at heart and deserves that considered possibility. Your observations and analyses of Putin are interesting. On much of it, I agree. Firstly, we may be in agreement in that between the MSM reporting and Gummint dissemination, neither can be trusted. And since there has been a concerted effort to demonize Putin (same of Trump), any and all "reports" of either are not trusted for accuracy. Putin is for Putin; Yes, he appears to demonstrate some sincere concern for humanity in general and appears to have a morality-based conscience. He is no angel, but in the context of those in power at this time, he is amazingly reserved. He prioritizes the interests of Mother Russia -- that is to be expected, a big plus. At least he is interested in supporting the concept of "Sovereignty"; AND rejecting any international coercion to join and betray his own people by making them subjects at the whims of a Globalist Cabal. That aside, and back to topic..... The penalty of discredit for an observatory would be severe. These are scientists, and about the worst crime scientists could be convicted of is purposely releasing false information about their science to the public as though it was real information. I am serious is saying that is a real deterrent. For the degree of conspiracy you propose, it would require extreme amount of trust for one compromised scientist to trust hundreds or thousands of other scientists to not debunk them. This is not to say scientists cannot be biased in their research which can skew their results. They certainly can be. But I'm not talking about bias. I'm talking about outright fraud. "Global Warming" has already been proven to be a fraud as countless scientists were compensated/bribed/coerced by un-named financiers to skew their opinion. (Some have even been knocked off.) How close were we from being fooled and the Elites from winning this Fake Science Issue? Algore was THAT close from establishing an alternative currency and tax based on "Carbon Footprints" and a "Carbon Credit System". These kinds of conspiracies and the seemingly impossible numbers of participants who must maintain silence -- haven't these large ensembles and charades been orchestrated for decades? With control of the Messenger (the MSM) there is complete control of the Message. (See JFK/Warren Report, 911, 0bama Past, several false flag shooting, Benghazi, Arab Spring, Trump Coup, etc.) Which while obstructing no starlight, also obstructs no sun light. The moon surface would have been brighter than death valley at noon, so the relative difference in light strength would have been, more or less, the same. Camera lens. Directional photography. We might be able be able to give a mulligan on the FIRST alleged Apollo Landing, but NOT the others. NASA sends human to the moon but lack proper cameras and lens and a plan to photograph the Earth? (They could have even taken a few clear, detailed shots from the cabin. Instead we got some fuzzy fake ones.) No, as "earth rise" was photoed from the lunar orbiter as earth appeared over a moon horizon. As the moon is tidally locked to earth, moon inhabitants would never see the earth rise as we on earth see the moon rise. Thanks for the clarification. And technical knowledge. So...No "Earth Rise" or "Moon Set"? Bummer. I'd have never figured out that one. Deckard posted (up-thread) scientists' explanation on the dangers of a space ship negotiating the Van Allen Radiation Belt.
The 2018 Social Mediated Edition of "HAL": "Open the pod bay door HAL" "I'm sorry Dave, your white hetero privilege precludes my following that command"
Since we're having more long winded discussions, I would like to suggest you take advantage of a "reply" feature. Preceding any quoted paragraphs with ">>", provided they appear first in the line, causes the software to automatically italicize AND indent the whole paragraph. It's most handy when you want to interject many comments in a longer post. Yet you do suggest scientists are willing to all corroborate on false facts, but nonetheless call it a conspiracy and not verification and "multiple testimony". This is a blanket statement and I submit it is absolutely not the case with many. Not all, of course, but many. They believe it because it's in the Bible. It's no doubt also the case with many believing scientific claims that are skewed or not true at all. If I did, would you read Michael Newton's "Journey of Souls?" I'll confess I'm asking more rhetorically as I don't have time and, honestly, inclination as I'm sure you also feel about reading one of Newton's books. Eye witness testimony of people who have long since died, along with anyone who ever knew them? Sorry but without the ability to answer to challenges or cross examination, it's just not eye-witness testimony. Not any more. Historical accuracy does not equate ot theological accuracy, and I freely admit the Israelites were likely meticulous record keepers. You cannot seriously suggest that religious doctrine has been immune to political influences throughout history. Certainly all these spheres have intertwined. The Church even excommunicated, or at least threatened to do so, Galileo over the question of whether the earth or Sun was the center of the universe! That is a classic example of the religious order imposing itself upon the scientific order. And yes, reincarnation itself has been condemned as heresy within the last 2k years by leaders who sought more control over the common people. It's far more easy to control someone who believes that they have only one life to live, and will not see salvation unless they conform to the will of the emperor/church. People who believe in reincarnation are not going to be so compelled! Global warming is far from something that can be settled with a single observation. But a single look at the alleged moon landing sites is something that can settle the moon landing matter immediately. Links to the Sky & Telescope site show images that purport to show the landing sites with disturbed moonscape features. If that is not enough, and admittedly they likely all come from the same source, how many different source photos would it take to convince you that it did indeed happen and that the evidence you have to the contrary must have some other explanation? Or will you stand by that evidence no matter what contrary evidence exists? Well, if you find your neighbor's dog in your living room, any assurances that it was impossible for him to be there because all doors and windows were locked doesn't change the fact that the dog is in your living room. If the moon landings occurred, there's an explanation about the radiation and all other evidentary claims. No one denies that astronauts are exposed to higher radiation than we get on earth.
I watched Capricorn One this evening and it's definitely a good movie... if you don't mind watching O.J. Simpson act. For a late 70's vintage movie it was very good with storyline and excitement. Afterwards I checked out some moon videos from Apollo. A longer one some 30 minutes long documents Apollo 16 moon landing. I watched carefully the movements of the astronauts for potential fakery, as gravity on the moon is much less than earth, and I could find nothing that seems unreal. There is a lot of footage of them walking, or actually hopping around, and certainly the Capricorn One method of faking weak gravity by slowing footage just wouldn't work. There's way to much of it. I remember one hoax claim talking about the dust kicked up by the moon buggy. Footage of that is included but I saw nothing that seemed wrong there. On to the Van Allen Radiation Belt. I searched and found this site discussing it with regard to the Apollo missions: It seems authoritative, and mentions that there are 2 belts, an inner one (well above the international space station orbit) and another farther out. Here's the key info: There's an artist rendering of the Van Allen belts on the site that won't embed here. I then checked Deckard's link which claimed we never made it to the moon in part due to the radiation belts, but sorry to say it seems to rely on quotes that may have been taken out of context and/or at worst, might not be anything more than a current NASA astronaut over embellishing space dangers, but in any event does not necessarily making a definitive statement that the Apollo missions could not have happened or never happened. All in all, I did not see any real science argued there, unlike the explanation above about how the Van Allen radiation belts were dealt with. So... it still seems to me there's little evidence the moon landings were faked.
I agree; Capricorn One was a compelling movie. Great plot. Plausible story line (wink-wink). OJ wasn't so much "acting" as being a name-prop. I've also looked at more footage of the Apollo missions than I ever intended with respective opinions on both sides of the issue of how and why we did go to the moon, and how and why we didn't. Though some of the footage I've seen is plausibly real, I'm still not convinced. The quality of video is still annoyingly inferior and not as clear as one might expect for 1972. After all, I just watched film of people and things from the 1920s that is crystal clear. Very odd that for (several) such historical missions to the moon that camera quality and film would not be a priority. Also, we don't see a 360 pan of the surroundings; Still no great shot of planet earth. (yes, I know there are a few.) And we never see a descent shot AS they are landing, nor blast off shot FROM the moon. They could have set up a camera ON the moon to demonstrate the entire blast off. But never did. They also could have replicated a landing to one of the original locations, which would have validated the prior landing. There is one vid in which the *sound* of a spike being hammered into the moon soil is echoed into the spacesuit speaker. HUH?? Regarding the Van Allen Radiation Belt, there are still too many sources that claim we can't get by it without exposing astronauts to fatal radiation. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this.
We may be getting close to winding up this subject matter...Or at least, putting a dent in it. There are obviously few issues that need to be addressed and clarified to larger degrees.
Regarding "Doctrine"... The Bible's Judeo-Christian Doctrine and genesis of Creation, Moral Law, Redeption, Salvation, and Resolution of Justice, Judgment, and Eternity is clear, concise, corroborated to the hilt (even you conceded the meticulous record-keeping.) It's "Scribes" are the authors of the chapters of the Bible. Historically NONE of it has been refuted. Meanwhile those who've changed it's doctrine are none other than...THE POPES AND VATICAN. (But we can get into all of it if you have the time/patience.) Does Michael Newton ever explain his doctrine of "good" with respect to his "model"? And again -- by whose definition and authority? I know you find the notion of "authority" a tedious annoyance, but without Authority all we have are the words and authority of a man, who happened to be an Atheist (who must STILL have had those definitive attributes programmed by a Creator or "Programmer," correct?) And why is it referred to as a "Model"? Doesn't "model" imply an Unfinished Product? Or version of an "Original"? "Newton's Model" evokes far more questions than he/it answers; There is a mountain of assumptions made with scant support other than the "testimony" of a number hypnotic "clients" who've supposedly broken through to a different dimension of "Past Life Regression". Michael Newton is not the only one to practice PLR, but the only one to create his "Model" -- which again, evokes far more questions than answers (which we'll get to.)
Ok, that was pretty good.
Keep in mind that for every pound they want to put into earth orbit, it requires burning off 1000 pounds of fuel (or something of that scale) so anything and everything that made it to the moon had to be efficiently made to be not just as light as possible but also as compact as possible, and that could mean quality of video taking a hit. Yes they did. Obviously the camera would be unmanned and remotely controlled, but there's footage of both Apollo 16 & 17 blasting off. There are separate vids on youtube of both, and possibly more. Also, the only footage of landings possible was through a small window on the lunar module, and they did that too though not much to see except the shadow of the lander. But in that vid, streams of dust blowing away from the bottom of the lander seem to be visible. I don't know how much the lander would have weighed but of course it would have been much less on the moon, meaning less gas thrust to leave an impression under the lander. Assuming the landings were real, they would have had no motivation to waste a second trip going back to a place they already explored to satisfy completely unanticipated future doubts of authenticity. And be honest -- even they did, it certainly would not have convinced the skeptics today. I don't know where that one is, but I suggest the sound could have traveled through the hands & arms of the astronauts and reached the mic that way. From this minimal research I've done, I am more firmly convinced the doubts have been satisfied. But agreeing to disagree is often required to keep the peace. It won't be the last time I'm sure, so good enough.
We're not getting paid for our time (like scientists ;-) so our respective research will be considered minimal; though likely sufficient. I'm about 65% against, 35% for. And you? Keep in mind that for every pound they want to put into earth orbit, it requires burning off 1000 pounds of fuel (or something of that scale) so anything and everything that made it to the moon had to be efficiently made to be not just as light as possible but also as compact as possible, and that could mean quality of video taking a hit. You've researched this more than me. Agreeing to disagree is often required to keep the peace. It won't be the last time I'm sure, so good enough. Only because no argument or case can be made that sufficiently swings this conclusively either way. We'd only be volleying other folks' "proof" back and forth until death. THAT is a lotta fuel for a 460,000 mile journey. But...really -- how much more weight would decent cameras and film equipment have set them back? DOCUMENTATION was crucial to the mission(s). Geez, you'd think ONE hi-def camera and film would have been taken after 4-5 missions. (IS there film of Apollo ships taking off? I'd like to examine that.) Remember this: The last of the Apollo missions was in 1972 (correct me if I'm wrong); Only a few short years later in 1975 'Star Wars' was released. Its Special Effects were ground-breaking. By late 1970s, SPX were highly evolved. (Just throwing that out there.) I just cannot wrap my head around a mission that we'd supposedly accomplished flawlessly a HALF century ago that has never replicated to ANY degree -- especially with the ease of computer-aided calculations, materials, and technology.
Ok, that was pretty good. HA!! (And I predict pretty soon ALL our appliances will speak to us as verbal exchanges will be the default operation mode.) You: "STOVE TOP ON, LEFT BURNER". Stove: "REAR BURNER OR FRONT? BUT FIRST, YOU MUST CLEAN ME." You: "CAR, DRIVE ME TO 7-11". Car: "I DIDN'T LIKE YOUR TONE. SAY 'PRETTY PLEASE'." You: "LATEX GIRLFRIEND, KISS ME NOW!" Lg: "NO. BECAUSE YOU JUST WATCHED HANNITY."
Genesis 1 most certainly cannot be included in as having been corroborated "to the hilt" or corroborated at all as by it's own admission, only 2 people were present who have no corroboration of even their existence. And that for the last half of the chapter. And in fact all other elements you list are not factual in nature such as when someone was born or reigned as king, but theological. My comments about meticulous record keepers refers to the hard facts of someone's birth, kingship or sometimes battles, not the theology, and their apparent high degree of care in replicating scrolls. Again, this is at best with regard to hard facts, not theology or genesis 1. You believe the Bible is the "Word of God". By what authority? The Bible's own authority? Because it claims to be the Word of God, it must be true? I'm sure I could find things on the Internet that are in the same way true. You are correct that I have difficulty understanding why this element is consistently important to you. I suspect it's because you believe you have this authority with the Bible, and it lets you rest your mind in a bubble-like sense of security to believe it without needing to conduct any further consideration of the Bible being anything less than the one and only gateway to God. And your challenge to me is whether I have this similar bubble-like sense of security with Newton's work, perhaps as though Newton is a prophet of God and everything he wrote is divinely and infallibly true. But whether I have your criticism correct or not, I can say that no, I don't have that bubble-like sense of security with Newton's work, and the reason is because I remain open-minded, which I would submit you are not. Just as I have been willing to consider alternate views about the moon landing being faked, I am willing to consider alternative views that Newton was completely wrong or partially wrong. Or even a little bit wrong. An example is that I have a friend who believes she has, in an out-of-body experience witnessed the demonic realm. She is very much Christian, and everything else she relates about her out-of-body experience, especially in a car accident when she had an NDE, (and in fact was told by a first responder months later she did die). All those experiences are consistent with what I call the Newton model, but not any demonic hell. So if found myself just yesterday wondering if maybe that is a reality that Newton simply never found. You, on the other hand, I submit, are not open minded when it comes to the Bible being the divinely inspired and infallible Word of God. You are close minded, perhaps for life, on any real consideration of the contrary, likely in part because the Bible itself tells it's readers that failing to believe and maintain faith invites eternal damnation. And given that penalty, I can certainly understand -- and not just sympathize but empathize with the difficulty of deciding whether to believe the Bible or not. But no real faith should be based in fear of damnation. Can anyone truly and seriously suggest that an almighty God would have to resort to fear to attract followers? How is that any better than any of the many gods of Greek & Roman theology? Liberator, I am open minded, and being open minded means being honest. Really honest. And in all honesty, I cannot fathom how God could have attributes that even human leaders know are faulty. Under the Newton model, God is even better and more majestic than is portrayed in the Bible, so to the degree I have abandoned the Bible, it's because I have more faith in God than the Bible says I should have. And if that's a sin that earns me eternal hell, well then, there's just nothing I can do about that. I am what I am. It seems to me you are completely comfortable sealing off any consideration that the Bible might just be a work of man only. If so, to each his own. "Model" is my own characterization of Newton's work and no one else's that I know of. Newton never uses that characterization. He merely gives a series of accounts of what his clients have related and his own contemplations of what it means and how it ties to what others have related in similar hypnotic state. I equate the term with "theory" as in a possible accurate description of reality. There is the Christian model (actually several of those for the various Christian beliefs), the Jewish model, the Islamic, Hindu and Buddest model and many other lesser known models. In Newton's case, however, it is certainly incomplete as Newton himself writes he's only scratched the surface. But what he has revealed seems to me very authentic, not so much because it's corroborated with ancient writings (though reincarnation is a theory that does date back thousands of years, and even Paul certifies that as he seems to refute it in one of his letters you could probably quote -- "it's appointed for man once to die...") but because it corroborated with my own experience, observations and philosophical musings far more than Christian doctrine does. For example, under the Christian model, if I see a beggar on the street with no feet and twisted legs, as a Christian, I could only cringe at the suffering and be embarrassed, giving money I would think appropriate, lament the man's condition and offer a quick prayer that God would miraculously cure him (knowing in my physical mind that it just ain't gonna happen). But with the understanding Newton provides, I can instead look upon this man in awe, because before me I'll see a soul that freely and with more courage I could muster chose to live a whole life without legs because that soul was tough enough to want that kind of challenge in order to grow strong, which that soul WILL do. So in my heart, instead of lamenting him, I instead salute him knowing that he will make more progress in his life than I and nearly all others will in there's. So you tell me from that, Liberator, which model is more virtuous? The Bible says Jesus said that a man born blind was that way for the Glory of God. So tell me, Liberator, which of the two regards for a crippled man Glorifies God more? A show off miracle of curing blindness, or a soul that has freely chosen an extreme opportunity to spend an entire life badly crippled to actually grow and be more like God? To me, there is no contest whatsoever. So if you sense my passion for the Newton model, perhaps I've done well in giving God MORE credit than even the Bible does. I don't mean this disparagingly (and I know you won't take it that way as I know you are a good guy making an honest effort to hear me out which I absolutely DO appreciate) but you can rest in your bubble of mental security that the Bible is THE gateway to God if you want to, but for me, it's simply not good enough.
Before this thread, as I've heard allegations of fakery and even watched a whole VHS vid on it long ago (misunderstanding what it was beforehand), I was probably 50/50, acknowledging that, if reaching the moon wasn't possible, the USA certainly had a motive to fake it due to the cold war race with the Russians, especially after losing the first satellite race. But with yesterday's extra research, I'm now 95%+ confident it did happen as I no longer see any compelling argument to the contrary. That went through my mind during the Capricorn One scene where the technician, at the last minute, gives the astronauts a Bible to take to Mars. (IS there film of Apollo ships taking off? I'd like to examine that.) Youtube searching "apollo lunar launch video" brings up a lot of vids of landings and launches. Yes, it is truly deserving of an award surpassing any of the Great Wonders of the World, and I agree that's reason for suspicion. They didn't even have calculators, for crying out loud. They used slide rules which I don't even know how to use. On the other hand, launching into earth orbit and reentry are the hard parts and they had that figured out. The moon has no atmosphere making both down and up relatively easy by comparison.
Thank you for a great and specific rebuttal. No hard feelings no matter what; We both earnestly seek the truth. And I know you are a sincere and good person. Is it possible you've misconstrued and misunderstood the message, teachings, and purpose of the Bible and the Scriptures? Or are you completely satisfied with your comprehension of it, it's authority, its inspiration or transmission...and Final Resolution? God has stated that there shall remain great mysteries...and that His full will and purpose cannot ever be known nor understood. And we must accept that. God has revealed Himself, both through curses and blessings, wisdom and Jesus (God in the Flesh),the reason for human suffering, death and a Redeemer, from Genesis on through the Ages...THROUGH Man. 5,000 years of prophecy testify and foretell what would occur until Judgment Day. From Moses in Genesis through John in Revelation.... Some of the biggest disappointments and misconceptions of the God of the Bible have to do with an Almighty that allows human suffering. Not even Christians are immune to asking the same question. One of the best examples of addressing this (as a Believer) is in the chapter of Job. Faith drives us. And justifiable hope. Based on a PROMISE. Yes, from God Himself. The blind, the lame, the "defects" of humanity may be "glorified" in the context of God in that they demonstrate inspiration, faith, and example to us that despite extreme hardship and shortcomings, they provide us with context for hope; No, the hope may not be for THIS world but of the Next. But again, this is the state of humanity and penalty for the universe itself -- we cannot earn redemption by our own volition, good deeds or intent. Jesus healed the blind, the sick, the possessed not only to demonstrate his divinity and compassion, but as metaphors for healing those who come to Him no matter their previous state of physicality or spiritual state. You have also noted that The Bible has emphasized to us this is Fallen World since Adam and Eve (as proxy sinners for ALL of us) rebelled against and disobeyed God. EVERYTHING must eventually die, which necessarily means suffering as well. But He also promises a a Second Life for all Eternity. God says we can't imagine what He has in store for us who endure. I have researched and read far more of Newton than you might expect.... Just how does Newton explain the evasion of death and suffering? Redemption and Salvation? Justice, FINAL Justice? And why shouldn't we be judged? Just as why NOT "fear" God? To be clear, what we should "fear" is the "wrath" of God for disobedience. What Newton proposes is ZERO Judgment ZERO fear of disobedience ZERO Resolution of Life. EVER. In any shape or form of the Physical or Spiritual. I am open to ideas, but they MUST make sense. And yes, with any law or claim of consequence an "Authority" IS required, is it not? And in Newton's Model, is HE this authority? WHO is? And for that matter, who has anointed these "counselours" or "guides" with authority to do so? During these "Life-Breaks" in this nebulous realm "between lives", from where do these guides derive their advice in re-calibrating their rights and wrongs in the *previous* life? And where did THEY come from? Where did THEY learn about morals and the definition of "good"? (The Bible explains all this in spades. I don't have the time and space to synopsize, but the Study Bible I suggested would indeed do so thoroughly. I believe to your satisfaction If I haven't totally alienated you by the end of this post.) Ping...HOW is one to keep on returning to an Earthly Form and "perfect" themselves? How long a process would this process take? And who is to say that one returns and can't help but keep ON making mistakes OR "sinning"?? Moreover, Michael Newton seems to have contrived a "corporate" system for a vague idea of "Redemption" or atonement. It sounds conspicuously like a college or university that's structured according to modern ideas of instruction. Its staffed by these spiritual "guides" who are wise teachers and counselours. Now no matter how evil one was in a previous life (and in that previous life one has CHOSEN TO BE WHO THEY ARE, IN WHATEVER HEALTH, as well as WHERE -- correct?) He gives the further impression the LBL are pupils encouraged to learn their wrongs in preparation for succeeding their NEXT reincarnation at their own pace. WITHIN THE SAME "SOUL GROUP"?? And...Where is the Joy in the process? The Love? The...again -- the Final Resolution? But again, we never find out just who we are "atoning" TO. It's apparently not God or any Authority. The "authority" seems to be ad hoc. And to what extent these life-lessons are corrected and atonement is completely -- if ever. In this sense it's a lot like Catholicism and its notion or Purgatory where one never finds out just how may prayers releases one to the next step. How does one look at Newton's hypnosis case work, theories and non-corroboration and readily accept his formulated conclusions about the nature and functioning of the spirit world -- without providing supporting evidence or basis for and of Authority? One of my (many) major problems with Newton's Model is whole reality of the spiritual world that can be accessed via the tool of hypnosis. Of which HE holds the key. Who is able to validate all the knowledge and data from hidden memories obtained from clients via hypnosis? IF authentic, why shouldn't demons be considered the Source? This dynamic is pretty similar to Shamanism and that of ancient Gnostics and Occultists of Babylon and before, who would acquire "secret knowledge" of the supposed afterlife while accessing spiritual realms. I don't doubt the notion that Michael Newtons HAD indeed accessed info from his clients/subjects during his hypnotic sessions. I don't doubt that they entered a spiritual realm either. I DO doubt the benevolence of the source; I question the source, the purpose, and the ulterior motive -- which I believe is intended to deceive from THE Truth. There is only one crack at the Afterlife and Eternity. Please reevaluate. The Newton Model is far more theory and wishful thinking from one man than faith. Yes, it appears to remove Judgment, Redemption, Salvation, and deep instinct for our soul to hunger to meet God and be one with Him. I will post just this single scripture tract: "“But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.” ~ 1 Corinthians 2:9 KJV
It's not only a possibility, it's a certainty that I don't understand whatever message authors intended in the Bible, regardless of whether that author is God or several dozen people. I could never live long enough to be certain I understand everything the Bible has to say. I don't see it that way. Under the Newton model, we have an explanation for suffering as well, as I outlined previously. And to me, it's an explanation that is far superior to that offered by the Christian model, and in fact, the Christian model is far less satisfactory to, say, parents grieving over a child who has died. Your first sentence largely overlaps that of the Newton model. I don't understand "evasion of death and suffering". But Newton does not, in his books, make any claim about why things are one way or the other. Not really. He just relates what he has found. Call him a witness, if you like. Just not a witness you believe. As for the "why's" of what he's found, that's all me, here on this forum. In the Newton model, there's complete free will, so disobedience is not really possible. We make our choices and live with the consequences. In the same way, your questions would be much better answered in Newton's books. We grow through experience. I don't think Newton ever states what amount of time is typical. But Brian Weiss writes of his first patient who was supposedly on her 86th life. At least that number sticks in my head. Doubtless a number of them would have been short. We can keep making mistakes but patience is unlimited. I'm not sure I understand the question, but life is not a random thing, according to Newton. The people we meet and have significant relationships with are usually by design, not chance. Soulmates might have family lives, by design, even through adoption. Often, adopted children may see themselves as not belonging due to lack of a blood link, but under the Newton model, such siblings may well be soulmates anyway. It's not chance that brings people together. We see it as such but no, it's not like that. As I said, the Newton model rhymes with my own life experience and observation far better than Christianity does. It's just not something an "outsider" can argue with, really. We've discussed before. Others can do it as well. Newton formed an institute to train others in the skills he has learned, but even so, others unaffiliated could also regress people to past and between life states. Newton has never claimed to be uniquely skilled, so far as I know. We are free to do so. But for those of Newton's schooling, a negative cannot be proven. And besides that, when people genuinely benefit from this hypnosis therapy in which they recall past lives and find healing and answers that have always eluded them, it kind makes the demon explanation not fit. Demon's in the Christian model are generally not into seeing people improve. You imply I should be fearful to not believe as you do. But again, God does not need fear. He's better than that. I spent over 30 years towing the Christian line. I suspect that's long enough to have "seen the light" if there was indeed any light to see. You and I see things differently and I think we are both good people. Another aspect of the Newton model is that the academics in our brains doesn't matter. None of us is penalized for being born into any religion or for subscribing to any particular faith. So by my belief, you are okay, but by yours, I am not. That in itself is telling. It is the heart that matters. The soul which is immortal. It is not the brain, which is destined to perish. Why would the contents of a perishable brain determine the final destiny of the soul which does not? Does that make even the slightest amount of sense to you? It doesn't to me. I think we've sparred enough for a month or two. We are both set in our beliefs. Again, I do appreciate you're hearing me out.
You're welcome. Same here. If I might... Since there still seem to be a just a few issues that were either misunderstood and needed clarification from both perspectives, may I suggest one last go round? The inability to reference other explanations on the other threads (instead of in this NASA thread) was probably counter-productive and redundant as you've mentioned. Your call.
Lets do it later. I find myself on various venues now doing my part to help us avoid WW3, and it's more time consuming than I anticipated. :)
No prob... "Blessed are the Peacemakers..." P.S. -- Peace of mind is the best you'll find these days...and helping ohers find it. Although I commend your best efforts.
I gotta admit, this is a great photo, and one I've never seen before.
#28. To: no gnu taxes (#21)
#29. To: Liberator (#26)
But HERE is the problem THESE DAYS: With the technological development and high degree of CGI and other virtual reality techniques, photography as well as video can no longer truly be trusted. Surely you realize this.
Then there is the other factor to consider -- and this is no small one: The credibility of a Government-Science-Hollywood-Media Complex itself and agenda to alter "Reality" and perception OF Reality.
Now again -- if you and others prefer to focus solely on the validity of the alleged "Moon Landings", there is also the issue of negotiating what would have been the Van Allen Radiation Belt and non-protective flimsy "spacesuits" worn by Armstrong etal.
I would have to cut and past several technological articles and explanations to address what are legit questions.
Again -- remember on the moon there is no oxygen;
Well, there is a famous one called "Earth Rise" allegedly showing the earth from the orbiting lunar module.
Is that the photo TC has uncovered?
#30. To: Liberator, no gnu taxes, Tooconservative (#28)
#31. To: Liberator (#23)
That kind of photo was and is NEVER released to the general public. Otherwise IT would have been THE iconic historic poster for the ages.
#32. To: Pinguinite (#25)
Since the moon is tidally locked to the earth, the earth would always be present at the same relative location in the moon's sky. If the Apollo mission of this photo could be determined, then the moon landing location could also be determined, which might debunk this photo as a fake.
#33. To: Liberator, Pinguinite (#27)
WHY wouldn't that photo have been festooning every front page, magazine, and book by the latest, the early 1970s??
#34. To: Pinguinite (#29)
Absolutely. You've certainly noted my analysis of that photo as well. It does not seem real to me. In addition, the earth seems exceptionally high in resolution, which suggest more modern optics.
#35. To: Tooconservative (#32)
You seem to think that the moon is in a geosynchronous orbit. It isn't. Or we wouldn't have tidal effect at all.
#36. To: Tooconservative, pinguinite, Deckard, no gnu taxes (#33)
Contrary to your impressions, only the first Apollo mission was followed closely by the public. After that, nada.
#37. To: Liberator (#36)
#38. To: Pinguinite (#35)
As all the landing locations on the moon are near central on the moon as viewed from earth, the astronauts there would have had to look near straight up or somewhat close to straight up to see the earth and would never have seen the earth on the moon horizon, that no matter what time of month or year they would have gone there.
#39. To: Liberator (#36)
From a technical and safety aspect, just how did those astronauts survive the Van Allen Radiation Belt?
#40. To: Tooconservative (#38)
But the moon can appear over the top of a nearby mountain. The last mission or two, they were near some smallish mountains.
#41. To: Tooconservative, Liberator (#39)
From a technical and safety aspect, just how did those astronauts survive the Van Allen Radiation Belt?
"That's the farthest we can go."
"Moon, Mars, asteroids, there are a lot of destinations that we could go."
“Right now we can only fly in Earth orbit, that is the farthest that we can go. This new system that we are building is going to allow us to go beyond and hopefully take humans into the solar system to explore, so the Moon, Mars, asteroids, there are a lot of destinations that we could go to and we’re building these building block components in order to allow us to do that eventually.”
NASA Contractor - Engineer 
Bill Kaysing, US Navy officer, USC graduate, Rocketdyne head of technical publications.
Author: We Never Went to the Moon: America's Thirty Billion Dollar Swindle (1976)Dr. John H. Mauldin
PhD, Science Education, University of Texas; MS Physics, Purdue; BS Physics, Cornell
Worked on the NASA Voyager project
Prospects for Interstellar Travel - American Astronautical Society
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.
#42. To: Deckard, Tooconservative, Liberator (#41)
The Apollo capsule was not even 1/10 meter thick, the Van Allen Belts have over 100 REM/hour, so the astronauts could not have survived going to the Moon.
#43. To: Pinguinite, Liberator (#40)
The Apollo 17 spot looks a little more that midway off center, so I'd expect earth to appear about 40-45 degrees elevated off the horizon from there, quite possibly in camera frame with a mountain. It would take some geometry to figure out what the attitude of the earth would be from various spots but I don't doubt that some moon photos could show the earth above a mountain, at least for Apollo 17. But that's more doubtful for Apollo 16, as that site is more centered.
#44. To: Deckard (#41)
More NASA staff coming forward about Apollo, acknowledging the Van Allen Belts
#45. To: Tooconservative (#43)
Back in high school, I think you liked all those problems in geometry class.
You could probably invent a whole series of interesting geometry problems from those old moon photos. For instance, held at arm's length (3'), when seen from the moon, is the earth closer to the size of a golf ball, a tennis ball, a baseball, a softball, a soccer ball or a basketball? I'm thinking between the size of a softball and a soccer ball but I could be very wrong. And I'm too lazy to try to solve it with geometry after so many years.
Of course, the earth is only 8,000 miles in diameter and should look really small when viewed from over 250,000 miles away.
#46. To: Pinguinite (#45)
(Edited)
Math was MY thing. I think I was the top student in all 4 of my geometry teacher's classes.
That was one thing I also noticed in the photo you posted. I don't think the earth would appear that big. But yes, a telephoto lens can make distant objects look bigger than they really are.
From the image you posted, it seems earth would appear 4x wider, so you'd have to square that to get the area, making it take up 16x more of the night sky. Very noticeable and it would be a beautiful sight, especially compared to what the moon surface has to offer.
#47. To: no gnu taxes, Deckard, TooConservative, Pinguinite (#37)
#48. To: Tooconservative, Pinguinite (#43)
#49. To: Pinguinite (#29)
But HERE is the problem THESE DAYS: With the technological development and high degree of CGI and other virtual reality techniques, photography as well as video can no longer truly be trusted. Surely you realize this.
#50. To: Liberator (#49)
(Edited)
#51. To: Liberator (#49)
Yes, belief in Scripture from Adam and Eve to Jesus' Resurrection and Return, AND Gospel requires faith. But then I would also submit that NO belief or claims in history are as sourced with multiple testimony and proof of corroboration.
Bible-believing people are NOT robotic zombies who do not seek truth and scientific evidence. That is purely myth.
IF the subject of "truth" surely interests you -- and you've already stated that it does indeed -- I highly recommend the purchase a Study Bible -- 'The MacArthur Study Bible' specifically. You would be blown away by its attention to the most minute of detail and corroboration of fact and testimony; questions you now doubt still have.
Any comparison of measuring the same criteria of questions and answers with respect to the Bible to those of NASA to be frank is ludicrous (with all due respect.) One is 100% transparent and backed up by eye-witness testimony
-- more amazing in that the tabs were maintained for thousands of years BY NAME, DEED, and chronology. The account is told, learned and believed by Free Will.
Bible Scribes vs. NASA Advocates. Are they really analogous? One abides in The Altruistic and Spiritual at the highest degree vs. the Other which operates from a Material/Ppolitical/Scientific agenda.
"Global Warming" has already been proven to be a fraud as countless scientists were compensated/bribed/coerced by un-named financiers to skew their opinion. (Some have even been knocked off.)
NASA sends human to the moon but lack proper cameras and lens and a plan to photograph the Earth? (They could have even taken a few clear, detailed shots from the cabin. Instead we got some fuzzy fake ones.)
Deckard posted (up-thread) scientists' explanation on the dangers of a space ship negotiating the Van Allen Radiation Belt.
#52. To: Deckard, Liberator (#41)
In the case of the Apollo missions, the solution was to minimize the [time inside the belts]. We can’t control the energy of those particles, though they can be large. The density of the Van Allen belts is well known (from sending uncrewed probes through them), and there are hotspots you can definitely avoid. In particular, the innermost belt is a rather tightly defined region, and it was possible to stay out of it for the trip to the Moon. The second belt is much larger, and harder to avoid, but there are still denser regions to avoid. For the Apollo trips, we wanted to send the astronauts through a sparse region of the belts, and to try and get through them quickly. This was necessary in any case; the crafts had to make it to the Moon in a reasonable amount of time, and the shorter the trip, the less exposure to all sorts of radiation the astronauts would get.
In the end, it seemed that these tactics worked; the on-board dose counters for the Apollo missions registered average radiation doses to the skin of the astronauts of 0.38 rad. This is about the same radiation dose as getting two CT scans of your head, or half the dose of a single chest CT scan; not too bad, though not something you should do every week.
#53. To: Pinguinite, Deckard (#52)
#54. To: Pinguinite (#51)
#55. To: Pinguinite (#51)
(Edited)
#56. To: VxH (#50)
"I'm sorry Dave, your white hetero privilege precludes my following that command"
#57. To: Liberator (#53)
The quality of video is still annoyingly inferior and not as clear as one might expect for 1972. After all, I just watched film of people and things from the 1920s that is crystal clear. Very odd that for (several) such historical missions to the moon that camera quality and film would not be a priority.
And we never see a descent shot AS they are landing, nor blast off shot FROM the moon. They could have set up a camera ON the moon to demonstrate the entire blast off. But never did.
They also could have replicated a landing to one of the original locations, which would have validated the prior landing.
There is one vid in which the *sound* of a spike being hammered into the moon soil is echoed into the spacesuit speaker. HUH??
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this.
#58. To: Pinguinite (#57)
From this minimal research I've done, I am more firmly convinced the doubts have been satisfied. But agreeing to disagree is often required to keep the peace. It won't be the last time I'm sure, so good enough.
#59. To: Liberator, VxH (#56)
"I'm sorry Dave, your white hetero privilege precludes my following that command"
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.
#60. To: Deckard, VxH (#59)
#61. To: Liberator (#55)
The Bible's Judeo-Christian Doctrine and genesis of Creation, Moral Law, Redeption, Salvation, and Resolution of Justice, Judgment, and Eternity is clear, concise, corroborated to the hilt (even you conceded the meticulous record-keeping.)
It's "Scribes" are the authors of the chapters of the Bible. Historically NONE of it has been refuted.
Does Michael Newton ever explain his doctrine of "good" with respect to his "model"? And again -- by whose definition and authority? I know you find the notion of "authority" a tedious annoyance, but without Authority all we have are the words and authority of a man, who happened to be an Atheist (who must STILL have had those definitive attributes programmed by a Creator or "Programmer," correct?)
And why is it referred to as a "Model"? Doesn't "model" imply an Unfinished Product? Or version of an "Original"?
#62. To: Liberator (#58)
I'm about 65% against, 35% for. And you?
You've researched this more than me.
I just cannot wrap my head around a mission that we'd supposedly accomplished flawlessly a HALF century ago that has never replicated to ANY degree -- especially with the ease of computer-aided calculations, materials, and technology.
#63. To: Pinguinite (#61)
#64. To: Liberator (#63)
Is it possible you've misconstrued and misunderstood the message, teachings, and purpose of the Bible and the Scriptures? Or are you completely satisfied with your comprehension of it, it's authority, its inspiration or transmission...and Final Resolution?
God has revealed Himself, both through curses and blessings, wisdom and Jesus (God in the Flesh),the reason for human suffering, death and a Redeemer, from Genesis on through the Ages...THROUGH Man. 5,000 years of prophecy testify and foretell what would occur until Judgment Day. From Moses in Genesis through John in Revelation....
Some of the biggest disappointments and misconceptions of the God of the Bible have to do with an Almighty that allows human suffering. Not even Christians are immune to asking the same question. One of the best examples of addressing this (as a Believer) is in the chapter of Job. Faith drives us. And justifiable hope. Based on a PROMISE. Yes, from God Himself.
The blind, the lame, the "defects" of humanity may be "glorified" in the context of God in that they demonstrate inspiration, faith, and example to us that despite extreme hardship and shortcomings, they provide us with context for hope; No, the hope may not be for THIS world but of the Next. But again, this is the state of humanity and penalty for the universe itself -- we cannot earn redemption by our own volition, good deeds or intent.
I have researched and read far more of Newton than you might expect....
Just how does Newton explain the evasion of death and suffering? Redemption and Salvation? Justice, FINAL Justice? And why shouldn't we be judged? Just as why NOT "fear" God? To be clear, what we should "fear" is the "wrath" of God for disobedience.
What Newton proposes is ZERO Judgment ZERO fear of disobedience ZERO Resolution of Life. EVER. In any shape or form of the Physical or Spiritual.
I am open to ideas, but they MUST make sense. And yes, with any law or claim of consequence an "Authority" IS required, is it not? And in Newton's Model, is HE this authority? WHO is? And for that matter, who has anointed these "counselours" or "guides" with authority to do so? During these "Life-Breaks" in this nebulous realm "between lives", from where do these guides derive their advice in re-calibrating their rights and wrongs in the *previous* life? And where did THEY come from? Where did THEY learn about morals and the definition of "good"? (The Bible explains all this in spades. I don't have the time and space to synopsize, but the Study Bible I suggested would indeed do so thoroughly. I believe to your satisfaction If I haven't totally alienated you by the end of this post.)
Ping...HOW is one to keep on returning to an Earthly Form and "perfect" themselves?
How long a process would this process take?
And who is to say that one returns and can't help but keep ON making mistakes OR "sinning"??
Now no matter how evil one was in a previous life (and in that previous life one has CHOSEN TO BE WHO THEY ARE, IN WHATEVER HEALTH, as well as WHERE -- correct?) He gives the further impression the LBL are pupils encouraged to learn their wrongs in preparation for succeeding their NEXT reincarnation at their own pace. WITHIN THE SAME "SOUL GROUP"?? And...Where is the Joy in the process? The Love? The...again -- the Final Resolution?
How does one look at Newton's hypnosis case work, theories and non-corroboration and readily accept his formulated conclusions about the nature and functioning of the spirit world -- without providing supporting evidence or basis for and of Authority?
One of my (many) major problems with Newton's Model is whole reality of the spiritual world that can be accessed via the tool of hypnosis. Of which HE holds the key. Who is able to validate all the knowledge and data from hidden memories obtained from clients via hypnosis?
IF authentic, why shouldn't demons be considered the Source?
There is only one crack at the Afterlife and Eternity. Please reevaluate. The Newton Model is far more theory and wishful thinking from one man than faith. Yes, it appears to remove Judgment, Redemption, Salvation, and deep instinct for our soul to hunger to meet God and be one with Him.
#65. To: Pinguinite (#64)
I think we've sparred enough for a month or two. We are both set in our beliefs. Again, I do appreciate you're hearing me out.
#66. To: Liberator (#65)
Your call.
#67. To: Pinguinite (#66)
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