The two main drivers of gun crime in the capital are said to be drug and gang activity. The Met has said that “the gun is very much a tool of the drug dealer […] to enforce their territory and to enforce their business” and the National Crime Agency (NCA) has highlighted that “with firearms, drugs are very prevalent within that, either seized at the time or as a precursor or as a factor within that crime group’s operating model”.8
Yes. Like we have always said. If you get rid of legal guns the only ones with guns will be criminals and government.
When you get to this point even discharging a legal weapon becomes a crime because its just wrong to protect yourself and property against the nice criminals!/s
Yes. Like we have always said. If you get rid of legal guns the only ones with guns will be criminals and government.
Well, it may have "always been said", but there's something else in these crime statistics.
Let's start with London, a city of 8.788 million - the model posted here to "prove" that Britain's tight gun laws result in helpless victims succumbing to crime.
Now let's look at New York City, a US city with tight (though by no means the tightest) gun laws. New York, with 8.538 million people, is slightly smaller than London. 2017 statistics: Murder: 292 Felony Assault: 20,052 Robbery: 13,956.
Now let's look at Houston, the biggest city in open-carry Texas. Houston is 1/4 the size of London or New York City. 2017 Statistics: Murder: 302 Felony Assault: 10,027 Robbery: 12,641.
Correlation is not causation, but one can see that tight gun laws are correlated to lower violent crime, and loose gun laws are correlated to much higher (4x higher) murder and other violent crime rates.
The statistics don't bear out the argument that an urban population living under strict gun control is less safe from crime than one with very loose gun laws, so it is perilous to make such arguments because they can so easily be refuted by the numbers.
The real truth, I think is the culture.
London has MUCH greater social support and higher social welfare payments than the US, and therefore the desperation level is lower and crime is, accordingly, lower.
New York has a much more robust system of social welfare and support than Texas. That's why the crime rate in Texas is four times the crime rate in New York. You end up paying for poverty and desperation one way or the other. In New York, they pay a lot more in taxes. In Texas, they pay a lot less in taxes and get shot more.
Now let's look at New York City,---- Robbery: 13,956.
London has MUCH greater social support and higher social welfare payments than the US, and therefore the desperation level is lower and crime is, accordingly, lower.
Apparently so, though it's always difficult to separate robbery from violent assault. I suppose it's just a robbery if the victim doesn't fight, but becomes a violent assault or a murder if he does. The best measure is to add the three crimes together. London and New York are similar in size and have similar violent crime rates. More likely to get killed in New York, though. Guns are deadlier than knives and bats, obviously.
A losing lawyer attacks the measurements and statistics?
You think I'm losing. I don't. I think I've won my point. Houston has a quarter of the population and fewer foreign born than New York (or London, which has 36.7% of its people foreign born), and it has the loosest gun laws of the three by far. It also has four times the violent crime rate. My point was that the idea that London is particularly violent BECAUSE it has tight gun laws is piffle.
With a Muslim mayor and many Muslims in their police force, London is the epitome of diversity. America is slightly lacking the numbers, but given a chance by a complicit and idiotic Congress we'll catch up.
Liberals are like Slinkys. They're good for nothing, but somehow they bring a smile to your face as you shove them down the stairs.
Now let's look at Houston, the biggest city in open-carry Texas. Houston is 1/4 the size of London or New York City. 2017 Statistics: Murder: 302 Felony Assault: 10,027 Robbery: 12,641.
What you are forgetting is that Houstan has a huge illegal alien population which is why its skewed.
Remove illegal aliens from Texas and it would be near the bottom of all fbi statics that are bad. I am a news hound and for every legal citizen causing crime there are 4 illegal aliens causing crime. Remove illegal aliens and gangbangers that come here from 3rd world places including Chitcago or NO! Texas would be damn near crime free!
Socialism is the problem and will always be the problem. Steal from the productive give it to the not worthy with out representation of the giver. Government will always be the problem to the good. Neighbors help neighbors but when the government takes all the excess money from the worker they no longer have the ability to help their neighbors which will turn neighbors against each other.
Not even close. Most of the people in Houston are from Mexico and use violence to solve issues.
Houston being near the southern border and have a major sea port makes it easy to get too. I had family near Houston.
You could easily triple the illegal population in Houston than NYC but the legal population is a third of NYC.
And they don't call the city on the Thames "Londonistan" for nothing!
I visited there about 15 years ago. I was surprised how bad it was then. No wonder londonstan vote against Brexit. Regressives should be sent to the ME for what they have done or be fed to wild dogs!
Your stats are bullshit... as it correlates to guns because your murder stats aren’t just limited to murders accociated with just guns.
Also, nyc posted its lowest homicide rate in 80 years. Personally, I attribute the low numbers in nyc to the size and effectiveness of the largest police department in the world.
I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح
Why are you still trying to minimize how many illegal immigrants are here?
Why is it important to you?
Because you guys do not get to make up facts to support your arguments.
My whole point in posting at the start was to make fun of the argument that London has crime because it is tough gun laws. That is not true.
I pointed to American cities, that have less restrictive gun laws, and demonstrated that they have higher murder numbers. I pointed to Houston, the biggest city in Texas, and a much smaller city that New York or London. I picked Houston because Texas has famously loose gun laws, at least compared to New York or London.
And I pointed out that Houston has more murders than either London or New York, and more violent crime per capita. My POINT was, and remains that NO, the London gun laws are NOT the reason that there is violent crime there - that THAT argument is absurd.
You guys decided that no, it's immigrants who cause all the crime.
Well, London and New York are LOADED with immigrants. Massive immigrant populations.
Then you guys shifted the argument to illegal aliens - it's ILLEGAL aliens that cause all the crime.
Once again, NOPE. New York has multiples of the illegal aliens as Houston, according to the formal statistics really collected by people who try to collect them (and no "I've been to Houston and it's all illegals" is not a statistic, it's an anecdote - I've been to Houston too, and there are a lot of Hispanics there. To say they're all illegals is impossible from a visual inspection).
If it's illegals who cause the murders, then cities with many more illegals - like New York - should have MORE MURDERS. But Houston has more murders than New York City.
If it's gun laws, then New York and London should have more murders than much smaller Houston, which has lax gun laws. Nope. Houston is a bloodier place, in absolute numbers.
I am not arguing FOR gun laws, or that illegals (and other poor people) don't commit crimes. I'm not arguing that Houston isn't a shitpit. It is.
I'm simply not allowing the simple-minded argument that London has some violent crime BECAUSE Of strict gun laws. That is bullshit. And I'm not allowing the simple-minded argument that illegal aliens cause all the crime.
I'm not allowing you guys to simply make up statistical facts to justify foolish arguments.
That's all I'm doing.
I'm not trying to "minimize" how many illegal aliens are here. 450,000 is a MASSIVE number in a city of 2.3 million.
I'm pointing out that "It's illegal aliens" doesn't cut it as an answer, because there are 1.5 million illegals in New York City, and that's a massive number in a city of 8 million also - but New York is a lot less violent.
So, what IS it then? It's a culture of violence and frustration that makes places violent, and poorer places are, obviously, more frustrated than wealthier places. NYC has less crime than Houston because it's RICHER, and has a much heavier police force. That's why.
It's not gun laws, and it's not simply illegals. It's wealth and police force size that primarily drive or suppresses violence - the poorer the people, the more violent, UNLESS suppressed by police. But police forces have to be paid, and that means high taxes. Texas the poverty, so it has the violence, but it has low taxes, so it DOESN'T have the police forces. Therefore, it's more violent than New York or London, gun control laws be damned.
I'm not minimizing anything. I'm disputing inaccurate "facts" that have been posed by people who have a specific policy objective in mind (to wit: gun laws are bad, because there's violence in London). That argument doesn't hold up on the facts.
This doesn't mean I'm advocating FOR gun control either. I'm largely indifferent to the whole subject. It doesn't help your cause if you make up facts to try to justify your argument. I am encouraging you to stick with the facts.
Your stats are bullshit... as it correlates to guns because your murder stats aren’t just limited to murders accociated with just guns.
Also, nyc posted its lowest homicide rate in 80 years. Personally, I attribute the low numbers in nyc to the size and effectiveness of the largest police department in the world.
A total murder rate is a total murder rate. Why are massive cities with gun control, and massive immigrant (and illegal immigrant) populations, having hundreds fewer murders - in absolute numbers - than smaller cities that also have large numbers of legal and illegal immigrants and wide open gun laws? The open gun laws are not resulting in less crime - that is for sure.
I agree with you that large police forces do keep crime down. London and New York have lower crime than Houston because they have massive police forces to keep order. Houston won't pay for cops, so it has crime.
The ORIGINAL argument, that gun control in London is the reason that London has violent crime, is the bullshit in this thread, not what I wrote.
Why are you still trying to minimize how many illegal immigrants are here? Why is it important to you?
I'm not minimizing anything. I'm disputing inaccurate "facts" that have been posed by people who have a specific policy objective in mind (to wit: gun laws are bad, because there's violence in London). That argument doesn't hold the on the facts.
This doesn't mean I'm advocating FOR gun control either. I'm largely indifferent to the whole subject. It doesn't help your cause if you make up facts to try to justify your argument. I am encouraging you to stick with the facts.
You claim: ----
"I'm not minimizing anything. I'm disputing inaccurate "facts" --- (to wit: gun laws are bad, because there's violence in London). "
It is a fact that despite drastic gun laws, London still has a lot of violence. --- Seems to me I just saw a report that London just surpassed the NYC murder count, except London murders are committed with knives. --- True?
I don't really care much about the subject of murder statistics either. ---- I do care about efforts to infringe on our rights to arms, and on efforts to minimize how many illegal immigrants are in the USA. ---- And I truly think you are less than candid about your reasons for posting about those subjects.
I don't really care much about the subject of murder statistics either.
ALTHOUGH...with respect to stats in general, they DO matter...
Complexion, race, religion, and economic strata ALL heavily contribute statistically to murder. (You can all do the math on this. Even the MSM and law makers can -- only they are far more choosy about WHICH "stats" to use, and WHICH to completely ignore. For pure political expediency of course.)
