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Foreign Invaders crisis cost $150B in 2023, forcing some areas to cut police and fire services: report Israel kills head of Hezbollah Intelligence. Status: Not Logged In; Sign In International News See other International News Articles Title: For once it isn't trump making all the noise Source: ABC.net.au URL Source: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03- ... n-spy-row-with-britain/9545730 Published: Mar 13, 2018 Author: paraclete Post Date: 2018-03-13 22:03:38 by paraclete Keywords: Russia, esponaige Views: 1128 Comments: 16 With the poisoning of former Russian agents in the UK, relations are deteriorating between Russia and the UK. The British PM has given Russia an ultimatum regarding the source of the nerve agent used in the attack and Russia has issued a definite threat to escalate So Trump fires the Russian agent in his administration while May accuses Putin of murder on British soil it is becoming very sticky out there in the cold and all this on the eve of the Russian election. Could someone be trying to interfere in the Russian election? Click for Full Text! Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 7. #1. To: paraclete (#0) If Russia wanted to kill someone, they certainly wouldn't have to resort to using a nerve agent that leaves a splash big enough to attract international attention to themselves as the instigators. What murderer leaves a business card at a crime scene? Someone WANTED Russia to be blamed for this. The only explanation for Russia (Putin) doing this that I can think of is to foment national pride in Russia and raise Putin's ratings for the upcoming election. Everyone knows that international rivalry raises the popularity of incumbents. If it wasn't that, then Russia is being framed. Pinguinite  posted on  2018-03-14   0:16:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #3. To: Pinguinite (#1) If Russia wanted to kill someone, they certainly wouldn't have to resort to using a nerve agent that leaves a splash big enough to attract international attention to themselves as the instigators. What murderer leaves a business card at a crime scene? Someone WANTED Russia to be blamed for this. Or Russia just doesn't care and thinks it can bluster through. I don't doubt there are plenty of state actors (CIA, Israel, etc.) who would love to gin up a hate-Russia story. They conduct multi-story campaigns against Russia and have done so for many decades. But Russia is not so innocent either. They are the ones creating these vicious toxins, they have a long history of producing the worst toxins for wartime use and for assassins to use. This is and was the stated purpose for developing these toxins. They have always maintained their official philosophy of making use of the worst CBN weapons as a routine method of war against civilians and for use by saboteurs and assassins. This policy has never been altered from the Soviet era. If it wasn't that, then Russia is being framed. Or they're guilty as hell but think they can get away with it. That alone has an intimidating effect. Beyond that, the spy and daughter didn't die. Instead, they are in a private hell of suffering. Apparently, this class of nerve gas leads to excruciating and unimaginable pain for weeks or months, assuming you survive it at all. I wouldn't be too quick to think that Russia is innocent. Russia is far more often guilty of everything it is accused of than being innocent of what it is accused of. And I am normally willing to at least consider what Russia claims on various issues like Crimea. Tooconservative  posted on  2018-03-14   3:03:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #5. To: Tooconservative (#3) On the world stage, Putin is on the defensive. He's suffered a coup in allied Ukraine and NATO is now on his doorstep. The Russian defense budget is much smaller than is the USA and it also has a smaller population and GDP. Furthermore, the Russian economy has seen turmoil around year 2000 or so. So no, I don't see Russia wanting to provoke anyone. It's not in their interests. To maintain it's status on the world stage, Russia must be very wise and shrewd, and I see Putin as having both qualities. That on it's face says they don't want to recklessly infuriate the UK or anyone else. I see the casual regard by Americans of Russia as the "evil empire" being a holdover from the Soviet era. But unlike the USA, Russia is no longer even an empire. The USA is, however, an empire, and one that has done at least as much ill throughout the world as Russian is presented as having done. I think that's what gets me the most in these discussions about Russia. It's usually from the perspective of the USA being some kind of saint country, and I can only regard those who see things that way as being very naive and easily duped. Pinguinite  posted on  2018-03-14   3:22:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #6. To: Pinguinite (#5) I think that's what gets me the most in these discussions about Russia. It's usually from the perspective of the USA being some kind of saint country, and I can only regard those who see things that way as being very naive and easily duped. So we both read various news stories. You disbelieve their central premise (Russia's guilty) and pat yourself on the back while quietly despising those rubes who think Russia did what they're accused of. You have not one shred of evidence for this view. You have no credible sources to support it. Your sole viewpoint here seems to boil down to "America bad, they must be framing poor Vlad". And all those Russian journalists and political rivals that get murdered on a regular basis? Just more bad-Vlad propaganda, no doubt. Yet you do continue to read and consume information from these media sources that you are convinced are systematically lying to you. But only you and some few other "woke" individuals can see through the giant sham, unaided other than by your own wit, some conspiracy theories, and a general view of the West as the inevitable villains on history's stage. How do you even know there is a person called Vlad Putin, that there was a Soviet Union, or anything else? From things you read that you do believe with no greater direct evidence than you are getting in this report. So you do not have a nuanced evidence-based view of the world but just choose to believe or not believe any news story based on entirely arbitrary and evidence-free opinion. So someone else used nerve poison on the ex-spy and daughter and they're just framing poor Vlad for it? Just like they framed poor Vlad for murdering all those journalists and political rivals in Russia? Maybe Kim Jong-il didn't use VX nerve gas to poison his older half-brother either. Another frame job for innocent little Kim (who, BTW, just happens to be a close ally of Vlad's). But unlike the USA, Russia is no longer even an empire. Russia looks a lot like the Soviet Union. It has its Russian heartland and incorporates many autonomous ethnic states and enclaves, as it has since the days of the tsars. It has the entire southern belt of despicable Turkic/Iranic Muslim countries under its thumb. It has Belorussia. So the CIS is an empire. It just isn't as large as the Soviets were when they held the Iron Curtain countries of eastern Europe. Tooconservative  posted on  2018-03-14   4:25:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #7. To: Tooconservative (#6) So the CIS is an empire. It just isn't as large as the Soviets were when they held the Iron Curtain countries of eastern Europe. If you look at territory, losing eastern Europe hardly made a dint, in fact Russia may have been better off without the basket case countries, however NATO has come much closer and Russia doesn't like losing their buffer Russia cannot afford war, their force in Syria is small paraclete  posted on  2018-03-14   8:55:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   Replies to Comment # 7. #8. To: paraclete (#7) Russia cannot afford war, their force in Syria is small Exactly. They are a gas station country, as McStain calls them. They produce nothing else that anyone wants. They are way below replacement birth rates. Tooconservative  posted on  2018-03-14 10:07:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #13. To: paraclete (#7) If you look at territory, losing eastern Europe hardly made a dint, in fact Russia may have been better off without the basket case countries, however NATO has come much closer and Russia doesn't like losing their buffer Most of the Russian territory is cold, remote and of little hospitable value. If it were otherwise, I think it would have been well populated by now. But yes, Russia is a much more minor military threat today in terms of conventional military might with a smaller military budget than they used to be. On the other hand, they have responded to this by focusing on key technological breakthroughs with missiles, torpedoes and drones. Putin announced such breakthroughs recently, and it does appear Russia is actually technologically superior in these ways to the US. I think the difference is they have no military industrial complex self feeding it's existence with big budget projects. I would guess in Russia, the motive instead is spend what limited funds they have wisely. It's ironic, actually, as during the Soviet era, they were known to waste so much money because of their refusal to respect free market capitalism. And today, it seems the US wastes so much money on defense because the "free market" is demanding more and more money for projects like the way over budget & behind schedule F-35. Today, for whatever reason, Russia is doing better with their defense money than the USA is. Russia cannot afford war, True, but no one can afford war with Russia either. At least an all out war. They have the strategic military power to lay *complete* waste to the USA and Europe. What Russia lacks in military might, they make up for in wise spending AND diplomacy, exploiting the sentiments in so many countries that have experienced the heavy hand US foreign policy. their force in Syria is small Having a big military force in Syria is not the goal. It's instead accomplishing the desired military goal with the smallest force reasonably possible in Sun Tsu fashion. And in Syria, they have done a *masterful* job in that regard. Pinguinite  posted on  2018-03-14 11:33:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   End Trace Mode for Comment # 7. Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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