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Title: Army vet with AR-15 stands guard outside high school
Source:
WND
URL Source: http://www.wnd.com/2018/02/army-vet ... nds-guard-outside-high-school/
Published: Feb 26, 2018
Author: Staff
Post Date: 2018-02-27 07:26:16 by Gatlin
Keywords: None
Views: 10936
Comments: 74
Enough is enough, says an armed U.S. Army veteran in Indiana who has decided to take student and teacher protection into his own hands after the horrifying Florida school shooting and threats of school violence rocked his own town. Mark Cowan says he is keeping watch outside North Side High School in Fort Wayne with his AR-15 and a handgun – at least until added security is in place. Cown told WANE-TV 15 that he’s standing guard to protect students and defend them against anyone who might threaten their safety while they’re in school. He has been in contact with local police and the school resource officer. “I [decided] to get my butt off the couch and come out here and keep an eye on these kids and teachers. They deserve it,” Cowan told the news station. “They all deserve a right to go home every night without fear of what’s going to happen during the day.” In addition to being an Army veteran, Cowan is a member of Oath Keepers, an organization of former police officers, first responders and veterans. “These kids mean a lot to me,” Cowan told WANE-TV 15. “These teachers mean a lot to me … this is my community, and they need protecting. And our law enforcement, as good as it is, can’t be everywhere. So it’s people like myself and the other Oath Keepers that say, ‘I’m gonna take up that slack.'” However, the school district doesn’t appear to be thrilled by Cowan’s efforts to provide more security. “We take the security of our schools very seriously,” Fort Wayne Community Schools spokeswoman Krista Stockman told WANE-TV 15. “We understand he has a right to be out there, but we do not believe it adds to the safety of our students. At North Side, as at all of our schools, we have security procedures in place. In addition. at North Side, we have armed police officers in the building every day.” As WND has reported, the idea of having armed military veterans and law-enforcement officers act as guards to improve school safety is not new. Action star Chuck Norris, an Air Force veteran, has promoted the idea for several years in his exclusive weekly column. “Which one of our fine law enforcement or military personnel (in any branch) wouldn’t consider it their greatest duty and honor to take a paid or volunteer shift as a guard infront of our schools protecting those precious souls?” Norris asked in his Feb. 19 column. And in 2013, Norris pointed to Israel, arguing that it’s a “beacon of light for how to protect our children in public places.” “Israel mandated armed guards at the entrances to all schools in 1995, and those guards are backed up by special police forces,” he wrote. “Despite that school defenses are primarily intended to thwart terrorists, they also deter any would-be psychos who would cause harm to their children.” Norris continued: “Back at the home of the brave, the U.S. faces multiple mass shootings on academic campuses and the majority still refuses to post any type of armed guard or even unarmed security at schools to protect our children. According to the National Center for Education Statistics, 70 percent of public schools do not have a police officer, and more than half (57 percent) have no security staff. There is an old-fashioned term for that lack of security response in these times: stupid.”
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#1. To: Gatlin (#0)
Good job Oathkeepers. Parsons loathes you because you defend the Constitution. Ok we can applaud this fellows action now if a hundred thousand veterans would step up and fill the gap there would be some point to all those assault weapons in the community, the meaning of militia might have emerged
I find there is no psychological check run on Oath Keepers members to determine their mental condition and no criminal background check either. If they are ex- military, there is no determination made to see if they suffer from severe PTSD. Shockingly, someone doesn’t’ even need to have any current of prior service in the military, police or first responder to join. Any John Doe can receive “huge discount on Oath Keepers memberships.” Instead of paying $40.00, for just $29.95 per year....you get: And the right to stand across the street from a school with an Oath Keepers patch on your cap while armed with an AR-15 and a pistol. Reading their membership application, the best I can determine that even the school shooter Nikolas Cruz could have joined and stood across the street from the school with an “Oath Keepers” patch and his AR-15. A quick search of 82 shootings on the internet shows that at least 28 of the shooters had been in the U.S. military. Military veterans are more than twice as likely to be mass shooters. Mass Shooters are Disproportionately US Veterans. So what we have here now is an individual sporting his “Oath Keepers” patch who has not been vetted in any manner dressed in civilian clothes and wearing sun glasses with a pull-down cap standing across the street from a school with an AR-15 and pistol. Is this what you REALLY want….is this what we REALLY need?
Somebody needs to protect America's schools from corrupt government officials, their DACA Dream Students, other illegal aliens, and Gatlin's peer group psychos. The Oathkeepers are doing the job that Sheriff Scott Israel and Gatlin won't, protecting America's kids against enemies foreign and domestic. What a colossal load of steaming bullshit! It's unbelievable what your fevered delusional mind comes up with. Military veterans are more than twice as likely to be mass shooters. I hope that the Oathkeepers take you out before any children are harmed. More Chuck Norris! Wouldn't any mass shooter just shoot this guy first? He would also be breaking the law if he actually did enter the school due to the federal gun-free zoning of schools. I assume this guy is on private property where he is standing watch.
I would be extremely grateful to be proven wrong. See if you can do that by going right now and use a pseudo-name with all other false information to join. You will find that you can join the Oath Keepers as a “John Doe.” I have shown you their membership application….NOW, you PROVE me wrong. I have shown you how Nikolas Cruz could have joined Oath Keepers and become an Associate Member. Stop with the insults and show me where I am wrong. PLEASE….show me how Oath Keepers members are vetted with background checks in any form or fashion….PLEASE.
You've shown NOTHING you arrogant ass. Or, would that police officer say: “May I see your Oath Keepers Identification Card, please?”
You have no fricking clue what their vetting process is Parsons. Your only agenda here is to defame Oathkeepers - just like it has always been, even at Liberty Post. Your badged "brave heroes" sure fucked up last time around - now here's a group of Patriots who have come up with a possible solution. You won't see any of these guys cowering behind a car during the next school shooting. Some crazy nut doesn’t even need to pay to join Oath Keepers, he can go on eBay and buy a Oath Keepers’ patch and declare himself to be a member. You really do support some insane and unrealistic positions.
Of course you will chose to ignore the fact that one of your Gods, Matthew Fairfield, while as president of a Oath Keepers chapter was jailed on 54 criminal counts related to his alleged storing of a live napalm bomb at his home, along with other explosives kept at a friend's home. And that he had already had been sentenced to two years' probation for carrying concealed weapons. Then in Tennessee, thre was an armed man driving a pickup truck emblazoned with an Oath Keepers logo arrested in a bizarre scheme to place two dozen officials in a town under arrest. Oh, there was another Oath Keeper, Charles Dyer, was arrested in Oklahoma for the alleged rape and forcible sodomy of a 7-year-old child; he was also charged with possessing a grenade launcher that had been stolen from a California military base in 2006. There are MANY other cases, I could go on and on…but you should get the message and understand it. Yet YOU don’t seem to and you show that you completely satisfied without any reservations whatsoever that these types of individuals are eminently qualified to stand across the street from schools armed with an AR-15 and a pistol….proudly displaying their Oath Keepers patch. Give me a fuckin’ break….you stupid asshole.
You've shown NOTHING you arrogant ass. That is still hope for you some day and …
Fricking liar - properly vettted Oathkeepers standing guard at schools is a workable approach. Yet you still think the cops will "save the children" even after you've seen that they will cower in fear when innocent lives are on the line. The only "oath" a cop swears to is that he makes it home alive at the end of his shift. If you expect the OathKeepers to give Nikolas Cruz a HappyMeal, you can forget it! Hypocritically quoting scripture again Parsons? What a pretentious, arrogant and pompous, utterly clueless ass clown!
Gatlin/Parsons would rather watch cops wet their panties in fear rather than have dedicated veterans stand watch at schools. They are not “properly vetted.” They never have been and probably never will be. All Rhodes wants in the monthly memberships dues coming in each month. Wow….look at what we have here: And now you want to let domestic terrorists stand across the street from schools armed withAR-15s and pistols....wearing their Oath Keepers’ patches? Come, on....please say it ain’t so.
Truth is where you find it"....those are your words.
I hope I have made myself perfectly clear and trust that I adequately describe the Oath Keepers membership to you. How many more slaps against the side of your head will it take for you to wake up to reality?
So your absurd claim is that Oathkeepers will allow just anyone to stand guard in front of schools? Maybe some of the members in the past have been unsavory characters, but as you say about cops - "it's just a few bad apples". That certainly applies here. Your agenda here is to denigrate a group of veterans and COPS who refuse to follow UNCONSTITUTIONAL orders and have a plan to offer protection to schools. Would you be on-board with this if the group worked together with the local police departments who could run background checks on any of the volunteers and weed out those who do not pass muster? stands guard outside high school So....I doubt this could be done by volunteers..... Funding is the problem. about 98,000 public schools in the US.... Average school year is about 1,000 hours over 180 days That's 98,000,000 man-hours. What do "armed guards" make? $15 an hour? That's $1.5 Billion That's for (1) armed guard per school, - that doesn't cover any after-school activities, and it doesn't cover liability insurance, benefits, employer taxes...
Of course. We know what Gilligan is and has always been. He's here to promote and advance his Goosestepping Fascist ideal. There's more to him and his occultist agenda, but that'll do. Dismiss, Bozo and starve the Troll once and for all.
The only solution will be to go to the root source of the problem, identifying potential a mass shooter before s/he is too far gone and takes action. Some of that is being done already, but as in the case oc Cruz....the warnings were ignored. How that can be improved on....I will leave to the experts. Obviously some people are already thinking along these lines as evidenced by other sources and this:
No disagreement.
Gatlin, Illinois Nazi Maybe some of the members in the past have been unsavory characters, but as you say about cops – "it's just a few bad apples". That certainly applies here. Listen, Grasshopper....a rooster crows only when he sees the light. Put him in the dark and he will never crow. You have seen the light and you’re crowing.
The warnings were deliberately ignored by the Sheriff department AND the Feebs in order to create the opportunity for this massacre to happen. The Sheriff's ultimate agenda includes gun bans followed by eventual confiscation - that should be obvious to even you Parsons. People react in variously different ways for many reasons. I could never automatically blanket label it fear, although that may sometimes be the final determined reason. Until I had a thorough understanding to the situation... I would just say they “freeze” for some unknown reason. Remember the story about the Army Master Sergeant, a veteran of WWII in Euorpe, I posted where he froze when it was time to throw the WP grenade and the instructor had to grab it out of his hand and throw it down range. If you are wanting me to endorse the Oath Keepers under a special qualification you have established....I simply cannot do that. Take the money factor out of it, remove Rhodes from the picture, establish extreme vetting procedures and I would still have problems....because the Oath Keepers would remain an independently formed civilian armed militia responsible to a single person in command with no oversight by any independent civil authority.
The warnings were deliberately ignored by the Sheriff department AND the Feebs in order to create the opportunity for this massacre to happen.
Poor guy. He means well,but sooner or later the professional LEO's are going to get tired of him eating their cookies,and he is going to get a beatdown and conviction to keep him from ever legally owning another firearm,or he is just going to be killed.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
Ok,if he is wrong,post evidence proving he is wrong. He sure seemed right based on what he posted. In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
You have no fricking clue what their vetting process is Parsons. I admit freely that I have no clue about the vetting. If you do,why not tell us all? In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
Fricking liar - Looks to me like it's up to YOU to prove he is lying. In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
Even when it is there, it quite often just cowers and hides.
I figure the poor fellow will be killed. It was stated that he introduced himself to the local cops patrolling the area and the school resource officer. But some off-duty cop that doesn’t know who he is or what he doing is not going to just drive by and think: Oh look there’s a guy standing across the street with an AR- 15 and just wave to him while yelling have a nice day. The off-duty cop will draw down on the guy and order him to drop his weapons. If the guy makes any indication of a wrong move, then....BAM, BAM. Yes, his intentions are good....but his actions are stupidly death threatening to him.
: Tooconservative, ---- Wouldn't any mass shooter just shoot this guy first? Military veterans are more than twice as likely to be mass shooters. --- gatlin TC -- Good point. --- The solution might be to have one child's parent in every class (a volunteer parent with a cc permit). Such parents could volunteer to attend one of their children's classes every month (given a class size of 30 kids), The schools Parent Teacher Association could work out the details and scheduling.. Comments? As to our supposed major knocking Vets... Whatta Creep..
Even when it is there, it quite often just cowers and hides. Would it be possible for you to specifically characterize “quite often” in both frequency of occurrence and number of LEOs involved....then cite specific incidents, other than the most recent school shooting? I will understand if you cannot.
I'm not sure how they can stop him or do anything else. Obviously, he is on private property and the school and the local cops have no power to prevent a legal gun owner from creeping out the kids and teachers by hanging out across the street with an AR-15 and pistol. Of course, you never know, maybe there are kids or teachers in that school who do feel more secure, seeing a heavily armed guy standing watch quietly across the street. Even so, I can see how this is problematic, a heavily-armed neighborhood watch kind of thing. I don't think the idea will be popular. People don't want self-appointed armed guards at their schools.
Charlottesville Va. when hundreds of LEO's in full protective gear, cowered in fear of Antifa & BLM. Have you even met any of today's parents? LOL The glory days of the swaggering Harper Valley PTA are long gone. You may recall they actually made a movie based on this song back in the Seventies, starring Barbara Eden.
I am merely pointing out the possibility of some cop driving by and not know what he is doing there and challenges him and he could possible be shot. I believe I read the school does not want him there. Again, I say it could be problematic for him and for the reason I stated.
Within 1000 feet on any public property. That's the law. I always thought it was excessive. And it criminalizes anyone driving down the street with a gun in their vehicle.
Good point on cars driving by.
The glory days of the swaggering Harper Valley PTA are long gone. I doubt those days ever existed, except in the sit com mind. --- The solution might be to have one child's parent in every class (a volunteer parent with a cc permit). Such parents could volunteer to attend one of their children's classes every month (given a class size of 30). Individual School Boards would have to work out the details and scheduling, of course,_and vet the parent volunteers.. A plan of this type could very well work in rural areas, where both parents and school authorities are likely to be normal, conservative people.. Comments anyone?
Actually, it will usually be breaking the law if you drive with a firearm within 2-3 blocks of a school. Average length of a block is supposedly ~350 feet. But that includes a lot of very big cities with small block sizes. Most of the country has bigger blocks. A lot of bigger towns not on the east coast have blocks more like 1/10 of a mile, sometimes more.
I always thought it was excessive. And it criminalizes anyone driving down the street with a gun in their vehicle. Tooconservative More than excessive, it's unconstitutional, --- and if my memory serves, that 1000 ft 'rule' has been successfully challenged several times in lower courts.. Eventually, the SCOTUS will have to shoot down this type of infringement, or else. --- --- The republic will cease to exist..
It should be but it's still on the books AFAIK.
In fulfilling my purpose, I wish to call to your attention that the Montana Supreme Court’s Office of Disciplinary Counsel (ODC) recommended Thursday that Elmer “Stewart” Rhodes, Montana lawyer and founder of the Oath Keepers, be disbarred for violating his attorney oath, according to a recent filing. Based upon the foregoing factual findings and legal conclusions, the Commission makes the following recommendation: 1. That Elmer S. Rhodes be disbarred; 2. That he be required to comply with the notice provisions of Rule 30, MRLDE upon disbarment; and 3. That he be assessed the reasonable and necessary costs of these proceedings in accordance with Rule 9A(8), MRLDE. FILE - In this April 16, 2015, file photo, people stand ready to check in volunteers at a staging area outside Grants Pass, Ore., where the local chapter of the constitutional activist group the Oath Keepers was supporting volunteers serving as armed guards for a gold mine on federal land where the claimholders are in a dispute with a federal agency. The federal government and southern Oregon miners have each taken a step back from tensions over the claim. (AP Photo/Jeff Barnard, File) The case, opened a year ago, involved a trio of issues: 1) On April 28, 2014, a federal judge in Arizona filed an ethics grievance against Rhodes for appearing in court “without license or an application to appear pro hac vice.” The latter is a requirement for a lawyer who wants to practice in a federal court located in a state where he or she isn't licensed. Rhodes did not respond to the Judge’s grievance. 2) On May 12, 2014, Rhodes’ Arizona client Michael Roth lodged a complaint against his lawyer, stating that Rhodes had provided incompetent representation and had abandoned him in his civil suit in federal court. Rhodes did not respond to his former client’s complaint. 3) On July 30, 2014, the Commission on Practice set a hearing date for Rhodes to answer to these grievances in person. That date was later adjusted by a day in an amended order. Rhodes did not show up for his hearing. According to federal court records, Rhodes had a second Arizona client, Jennifer “Jade” Jones, who also found herself without a lawyer in the middle of a civil case in federal court. While it does not appear that she filed a complaint with the ODC, she complained to the federal court. "I am the plaintiff the above titled action," she wrote the judge. "I have been unable to reach my attorney, Elmer Stewart Rhodes, for several weeks." A series of confrontations Since the Oath Keepers’ founding in 2009, the organization has engaged in a series of confrontations with the government, the most notable of which was the heavily-armed standoff against the federal government at Bundy Ranch in Bunkerville, Nevada. These confrontations started in 2011 in the Arizona town of Quartzsite when the Oath Keepers inserted themselves into a vitriolic, small-town fight between two factions. Protesters had been arrested at two City Council meetings, and two months later the Oath Keepers assembled in Quartzsite to fight the tyrannical government, prevent martial law, stop the encroachment of the “New World Order," and "restore the republic." Calling all freedom troops! Oath Keepers Muster! Quartzsite, Arizona! -- Oath Keeper blog entry, July 31, 2011 The Oath Keepers, led by Rhodes, gathered to hold the “Quartzsite Liberty Rally” against the town's then-Chief of Police. The two protesters that were arrested were Michael Roth and Jennifer Jones. Current trouble with Montana is not Rhodes’ first rodeo In May of 2012, Rhodes was publicly admonished by the Arizona Supreme Court and fined $600 for acting as the Quartzite protesters’ attorney when he wasn’t licensed to practice law in Arizona. According to his online biography, he had clerked for the Arizona Supreme Court in 2004, so it seems unlikely he was unfamiliar with the licensing laws. Even following this admonishment, he continued to represent Mr. Roth and Ms. Jones in Arizona, filing several federal lawsuits on their behalf. Citing family illnesses, Rhodes filed a request to be released from the some of these cases in late 2013/early 2014, but by April of that year, he simply stopped participating in one of the Jones cases. On April 15th, for example, he failed to appear by telephone for a status conference, and on the 18th was removed from the case by the judge. 04/18/2014 ORDER, Mr Rhodes is discharged from representing Plaintiffs in this matter; the Court will send a letter to the Montana State Bar Association regarding Mr Rhodes' failure to represent his clients and respond to court orders; Plaintiffs Jennifer Marie Jones and John Lavern Jones are now unrepresented in this matter[.] Rhodes was indeed too busy on those days to represent his client. He was leading the Oath Keepers in another confrontation at Bundy Ranch in an armed standoff against the Bureau of Land Management
Edited - See next post.
"Shoot, a fella could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff." I bet their members-only forum is a riot. Probably with a membership of about 50% FBI agents (agentes provocateurs) and 35% paid collaborators. It was a favorite hobby of Hoover's.
Depends on the state. Some states have written in legislation that it's a felony to be within 1000 foot of any educational building, with a gun. Those laws are as ignorant as any snowflake.. but they do exist. I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح
I think Elmer discovered a “cash cow” and he is milking her for all she is worth to collect the yearly dues he duped a great number of people into paying using the beautifully magical sounding buzz word “Constitution.” He now even has recognizable names soliciting donations to him. That was done recently after one of the hurricanes. Oh, I ran across this jewel this evening: Daniel Knight Hayden, an Oklahoma man self-identified as an Oath Keeper, was indicted by a federal grand jury after posting Twitter messages threatening to unleash a violent attack on Oklahoma state government officials on April 15, tax day. Deckard is a gullible doofus to support this bunch.
Oath Keepers seems to have attracted a lot of the "sovereign citizen" types. As you know, the Birchers had that same problem. They also had to purge various bunches of antisemites trying to take over the Bircher organization over the years.
As fellow members of the state organization, I know you get questions about Stewart Rhodes because I do. I recently had a conversation with former National Oath Keeper Board Member Steve Homan. I need to begin by saying that Steve is a Marine, Vietnam veteran and received multiple medals including the Purple Heart (more than once). For a long time, he was my conduit to the national organization and he did a lot to support Virginia before we broke away. I am sure Steve was disappointed when we left, but he also understood on some level why we had to go. Steve made it another year and recently resigned after fighting the good fight for a long time. I think he was just tired of having to explain decisions he had not made. When he resigned, Stewart Rhodes called Steve Homan a coward. I find it odd that a man who never served in combat had the audacity to call a decorated veteran a coward, perhaps Mr. Rhodes should think back on his own actions. His unwillingness to attend his own disbarment hearing after leaving fellow Oath Keepers in front of a judge without representation seems awfully cowardly to me. I spoke with Steve for a couple hours and he shared a few important tidbits with me. One, there are indictments that have yet to be executed for some of the leaders of the national Oath Keepers who participated in the Bundy stand down. They may never be used but it is important information to be aware of and prepare for. Second, national has been unable to make payroll for several months. As many here in Virginia can attest, a large part of our disenchantment with the national organization was related to our observations of Stewart Rhodes and his financial behavior when he visited the Commonwealth. Watching expensive dinners being purchased and shots lined up at the bar all while using the Oath Keepers credit card gave many people pause. The high-performance Mustang rental car was another item that people noticed. Of course, there is the infamous helicopter arrival in West Virginia. When we were promised dues sharing for over two years and were told there was no money for it, we had patience. Later when I was told our bank account was set up and on the way, and when it never arrived the state leadership encouraged me to support moves that would allow Virginia the autonomy to be self-reliant. While many have not made the move from national to the state organization, Virginia is financially solvent; we have money and are no longer operating out of my personal checkbook. We are very frugal with your money and it is not spent on anything that does not benefit the membership at large. I now know that the actions of national resulted in many Virginians simply not paying dues to anyone. Honestly, I understand that and I would rather have people keep their money than send it to national for steak, liquor, and fast cars. I write all of this not to bemoan the wrong-headed actions of Mr. Rhodes or to lament the disrespect a combat veteran received but to let my fellow Virginians know that the national Oath Keepers organization is due for some close scrutiny. There have been multiple financial lapses including the embezzlement of hundreds of thousands of dollars. There have been bad decisions that have led to Oath Keepers being placed in compromising positions legally that could have been avoided. The financial structure of the national organization is questionable at best and my hope is that all Virginians have ceased to send money to that sinking ship. When Oath Keepers hits the national media please be prepared to explain that we all saw this coming. I have spoken with our Board of Directors and told them that we need to have ready answers for that day. I also want to encourage you to explain to people who ask that the Virginia Oath Keepers has been an independent organization since 2015 and that we have a voting board that can remove any officer for cause at any time, including the President. Hopefully, everyone understands that as your president I cannot introduce a motion, I only vote on the board in the event of a tie and I am duty bound to be impartial on most issues. In August 2017 I will be stepping down from my position. I am a long time believer in term limits and the future of your Virginia Oath Keepers depends on the organization reflecting the republican (not the political party) values we pledge our allegiance to when we renew our oath. Between now and then I am working to strengthen our focus on two of our three pillars that have been largely ignored these last few months; RTI including Constitutional education and non-partisan political action at the state level. Our winter statewide training will include a four-hour block of Constitutional education. I am encouraging all current and future state and chapter officers to attend these classes. We have all taken an oath to the Constitution, but many do not understand or know the document. We will also have a class regarding political advocacy and lobbying that will be the foundation of our efforts during the 2017 Virginia election cycle. While I will not be endorsing any candidates in the Virginia Oath Keeper elections in 2017, I would ask the membership to not support any candidate who has not taken these two classes. After all, we are the Virginia Oath Keepers, you deserve leadership that knows exactly what the oath means. In closing, I am asking all of you to work hard during these next few months to ensure the sovereignty of the Commonwealth of Virginia. 2017 is a crucial year for our beloved home, and the fight for the control of the House of Delegates, the State Senate and the Governorship is much more important than I think many people realize. The liberty of Virginians depends on people who understand that to honor our oath and ensure our freedom we must think locally and act locally to defend our republic. Please consider attending our statewide training in early 2017 and I look forward to seeing many of you soon. The Virginia Oath Keepers is an independent state-level organization and is not affiliated with Elmer Stewart Rhodes or the national organization he runs. We do not endorse his positions or statements.
I will do that by relating the case to you where Joseph Rice, a former Army helicopter pilot who founded the Oath Keepers chapter in Josephine County, has joined a long list of former Oath Keepers to cut ties with the group citing concerns with its leader and founder, Stewart Rhodes. The reason Rice is breaking ties with Rhodes is that he had lost trust in the direction the Oath Keepers. He cites a record of poor leadership on a national level, a slow move away from the group’s core mission, and sees the group’s direction was dangerously far from its origins. Rice said, “Stewart is not a leader. He has no leadership ability. He self promotes.” The Josephine County Oath Keepers still exist, but without Rice. Rice has formed his own group, Liberty Watch of Josephine County, dedicated to community service and emergency preparedness. Rice said, “Oath Keepers in concept is a good organization. When you’re talking about those people who took their oath to uphold and defend the Constitution, it’s important. But what we’ve watched, there was a philosophy in leadership that was vastly different.” That philosophy seems to increasingly be the personal politics of Stewart Rhodes. People are bailing out of Oath Keepers everywhere for many logical reasons while you, Deckard, continue to strongly support Elmer Rhodes without ever questioning his misguided direction or acknowledging his dismal failures. This disbarred lawyer moves relentlessly forward with his self-promoting drive to personal enrichment as you continue your programmed virtual ass kissing. Your sanity needs to be questioned and your purposes in life redirected. Stop associating yourself with every hateful thing you can find and attempt to create misery in the life of everyone you come in contact with. That needs to be done....NOW. There are better thing you can do thay will be personally rewarding and spiritually fulfilling.
I admit freely that I have no clue about the vetting. I made my point earlier. The group should co-ordinate with local police departments who can check out the volunteers to make sure they don't have any past indiscretions. Gatlin has continually misrepresented my position on this issue. His claim that the Oathkeepers would allow a nutcase like Cruz to guard a school is just more evidence of his rampant senility. Granted - some members in the group have been somewhat unsavory, but as I pointed out to him - just as he has stated about cops - there's a few bad apples in any group.- I don't have any blind loyalty Parsons - I am just disgusted with your entire statist agenda. Not just on this thread but especially on the Condeleeza Rice thread where you proudly displayed your true Quisling colors. Oh and one more thing: You're a complete joke. PLEASE….show me how Oath Keepers members are vetted with background checks in any form or fashion….PLEASE. Moving on, you stated to Pete: Shockingly, someone doesn’t’ even need to have any current of prior service in the military, police or first responder to join. Any John Doe can receive “huge discount on Oath Keepers memberships.” The whole thing with them is about money….Rhodes is raking in the cash. And someone like Cruz could join when they did no screening and let Matthew Fairfield join. Fairfield, while as president of a Oath Keepers chapter was jailed on 54 criminal counts related to his alleged storing of a live napalm bomb at his home, along with other explosives kept at a friend's home. And that he had already had been sentenced to two years' probation for carrying concealed weapons. And someone like Cruz could join when they another Oath Keeper, Charles Dyer join. Dyer was arrested in Oklahoma for the alleged rape and forcible sodomy of a 7-year- old child; he was also charged with possessing a grenade launcher that had been stolen from a California military base in 2006. They have NO screening process….you pay the cash and you get to play. Now, I will ask you again, as I have done before: Show me were I am wrong.
Why are you so upset? Do you have a problem handling facts?
Ever hear of Columbine? How many dozens of "heroes" cowered outside while many died? One teacher was shot in both arms and could have been easily saved, but he bled out while the "heroes" waited for the donut delivery.
Even when it is there, it quite often just cowers and hides. GrandIsland: Prior to Columbine, active gunman incidents were handled by arriving officers contained the incident AND WAITED FOR SWAT. This was standard for many years prior. As you know, that strategy caused quite a lot of bad public relations, after Columbine. After Columbine, the standard training was that arriving officers wait until at least 4 officers are on scene, then the form a diamond formation, and SEEK AND DESTROY. That training a few years later was changed to arriving officers, even if it's just ONE officer, upon arrival, IF THERE IS ACTIVE SHOOTING TAKING PLACE, enter the building with only one objective, seek out the active shooter(s), and destroy. 3 I hope that in some small way I have been able to shed some light on your dilemma so that in the future you will be able to make the right difficult choice when deciding between conclusions….the right one and the wrong one. For your edification, I submit the following article with the aspiration that it will be intellectually beneficial for you. SWAT Leader's Defense of Columbine Response: Too Little, Much Too Late
He's here to promote and advance his Goosestepping Fascist ideal. There's more to him and his occultist agenda, but that'll do. Dismiss, Bozo and starve the Troll once and for all. " Deck, that is good advice. Take it, and you will probable reduce your blood pressure, live longer, and more happy !! Si vis pacem, para bellum Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God. Never Pick A Fight With An Old Man He Will Just Shoot You He Can't Afford To Get Hurt "If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." (Will Rogers)
Cowan has decided to leave his AR-15 at home and will call the authorities if he observes anything suspicious.
And he'll kick your ass again if you get within 1,000 yards of the school! Or would you rather continue to make a complete ass of yourself posting your irrational comments? Your adolescent behavior has long past the point of being truly reprehensible and totally disgusting.
Ah, the rest of this little saga about nothing. You have to wonder who had a talk with him.
Ah, the rest of this little saga about nothing. You have to wonder who had a talk with him.
I have a feeling there will be a sudden intense lack of interest in this thread. I pretty much have to declare you the winner of this thread. Congrats.
truly reprehensible and totally disgusting Ogaa Booga! In addition to being an Army veteran, Cowan is a member of Oath Keepers, an organization of former police officers, first responders and veterans.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.
#2. To: Gatlin (#0)
#3. To: Deckard (#1)
(Edited)
Good job Oathkeepers
Is it?
#4. To: Gatlin, *Politics and Politicians* (#0)
#5. To: Gatlin (#3)
Reading their membership application, the best I can determine that even the school shooter Nikolas Cruz could have joined and stood across the street.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.
#6. To: Gatlin (#3)
(Edited)
#7. To: Gatlin (#0)
As WND has reported, the idea of having armed military veterans and law-enforcement officers act as guards to improve school safety is not new. Action star Chuck Norris, an Air Force veteran, has promoted the idea for several years in his exclusive weekly column.
“We take the security of our schools very seriously,” Fort Wayne Community Schools spokeswoman Krista Stockman told WANE-TV 15. “We understand he has a right to be out there, but we do not believe it adds to the safety of our students. At North Side, as at all of our schools, we have security procedures in place. In addition. at North Side, we have armed police officers in the building every day.”
The law applies to public, private, and parochial elementary schools and high schools, and to non-private property within 1000 feet of them. It provides that the states and their political subdivisions may issue licenses that exempt the licensed individuals from the prohibition.
#8. To: Deckard (#5)
Reading their membership application, the best I can determine that even the school shooter Nikolas Cruz could have joined and stood across the street. What a colossal load of steaming bullshit! It's unbelievable what your fevered delusional mind comes up with.
Is it?
#9. To: Gatlin (#8)
I have shown you how Nikolas Cruz could have joined Oath Keepers and become an Associate Member.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.
#10. To: Tooconservative, Deckard (#7)
(Edited)
Wouldn't any mass shooter just shoot this guy first?
Or more so, wouldn’t some police officer from some outside district this Oath Keeper had not introduced himself to arriving first shoot him assuming he was the mass shooter?
#11. To: Gatlin, Liberator (#8)
(Edited)
PLEASE….show me how Oath Keepers members are vetted with background checks in any form or fashion…
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.
#12. To: Deckard (#11)
You have no fricking clue what their vetting process is Parsons.
And you have no fricking way of showing that they even have a vetting process.
#13. To: Deckard (#11)
You won't see any of these guys cowering behind a car during the next school shooting.
So YOU say, and of course you would. Oath Keepers are like Gods to you.
#14. To: Deckard (#9)
I have shown you how Nikolas Cruz could have joined Oath Keepers and become an Associate Member.
Oh, but I did and you never showed where I was wrong. Then the eyes of the blind will be opened And the ears of the deaf will be unstopped. Isaiah 35:5
#15. To: Gatlin (#13)
Yet YOU don’t seem to and you show that you completely satisfied without any reservations whatsoever that these types of individuals are eminently qualified to stand across the street from schools armed with an AR-15 and a pistol…
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.
#16. To: Gatlin (#13)
#17. To: Gatlin (#14)
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.
#18. To: hondo68 (#16)
If you expect the OathKeepers to give Nikolas Cruz a HappyMeal, you can forget it!
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.
#19. To: Deckard (#15)
Fricking liar - properly vettted Oathkeepers standing guard at schools is a workable approach.
You can take your “properly vetted” and jam it up your biased ass.
#20. To: Deckard (#17)
Hypocritically quoting scripture again Parsons? What a pretentious, arrogant and pompous, utterly clueless ass clown!
#21. To: Deckard (#18)
If you expect the OathKeepers to give Nikolas Cruz a HappyMeal, you can forget it!
I said noting about giving Nikolas Cruz a Happy Meal. I said that the day before the school shooting, the Oath Keeprs would have made Nikolas Cruz an Associate member simply for the payment of $29.99. Check their membership site and prove that to be untrue. Gatlin/Parsons would rather watch cops wet their panties in fear rather than have dedicated veterans stand watch at schools.
I would dearly love to have a group responsible veterans stand watch at our schools. But I don’t want a bunch of show boating clowns that has members who were charged with rape and forcible sodomy on a 7-year-old child or someone arrested as a domestic terrorist to be in that group.
#22. To: Gatlin (#19)
(Edited)
They are not “properly vetted.” They never have been and probably never will be.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.
#23. To: Gatlin (#0)
#24. To: Deckard, Stoner (#11)
Your only agenda here is to defame Oathkeepers - just like it has always been, even at Liberty Post.
#25. To: Jameson (#23)
Armed guards will never be the answer. If there were enough manpower and money to place armed guards at every school, a mass shooter would then head to (or back to) churches. If armed guards were placed at churches, a mass shooter would look to other places. There will never be enough armed guards and there will always be too many places to protect to look for armed guards being the solution.
Trying To Better Detect Potential Mass Shooters After Las Vegas
#26. To: Gatlin (#25)
If there were enough manpower and money to place armed guards at every school, a mass shooter would then head to (or back to) churches.
#27. To: Liberator, Deckard, Stoner (#24)
He's here to promote and advance his Goosestepping Fascist ideal. There's more to him and his occultist agenda, but that'll do.
#28. To: Deckard, GrandIsland, A K A Stone, misterwhite, Tooconservative, hondo58, buckeroo, Liberator, and Everyone (#22)
(Edited)
#29. To: Gatlin (#28)
#30. To: Gatlin, Liberator (#25)
as in the case oc Cruz....the warnings were ignored.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.
#31. To: Deckard (#22)
Would you be on-board with this if the group worked together with the local police departments who could run background checks on any of the volunteers and weed out those who do not pass muster?
I would give serious consideration to that if I felt armed guards at schools would work. Many, to most all, schools already have an armed guard. Human nature is unpredictable and there is no assurance an Oath Keeper will not react the same as the same as Scot Peterson did at the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School shooting.
#32. To: Deckard (#30)
as in the case oc Cruz....the warnings were ignored.
According to media reports, they were ignored by BCSD. It as an agreement first started in an adjacent county between the police and school and then adopted by the Broward Country Sheriff Department and School Board. If ou are interested, look it up. I ill not take time to cover the agreement here. The Sheriff's ultimate agenda includes gun bans followed by eventual confiscation - that should be obvious to even you Parsons.
It is unfortunate that you live with that conspiracy theory every moment of your life. Gun confiscation will never happen in America. Oh, there no doubt will be political compromises and further restrictions place on some guns, but ending in total confiscations? Nah....never gonna happen. Rest easy on that point ...
#33. To: misterwhite (#29)
That made me laugh, aand I desperately needed the humor after dealing so much with troubled Deckard.
#34. To: Gatlin (#0)
#35. To: Deckard (#5)
What a colossal load of steaming bullshit! It's unbelievable what your fevered delusional mind comes up with.
#36. To: Deckard (#11)
PLEASE….show me how Oath Keepers members are vetted with background checks in any form or fashion…
#37. To: Deckard (#15)
Yet YOU don’t seem to and you show that you completely satisfied without any reservations whatsoever that these types of individuals are eminently qualified to stand across the street from schools armed with an AR-15 and a pistol…
#38. To: Gatlin (#0)
"And our law enforcement, as good as it is, can’t be everywhere."
#39. To: sneakypete (#34)
... or he is just going to be killed.
#40. To: Gatlin, , Tooconservative, Y'ALL (#10)
#41. To: Hank Rearden (#38)
"And our law enforcement, as good as it is, can’t be everywhere."
That is rather an extreme gross generalization that really doesn’t say anything and definitely proves nothing.
#42. To: Gatlin (#39)
But some off-duty cop that doesn’t know who he is or what he doing is not going to just drive by and think: Oh look there’s a guy standing across the street with an AR- 15 and just wave to him while yelling have a nice day. The off-duty cop will draw down on the guy and order him to drop his weapons. If the guy makes any indication of a wrong move, then....BAM, BAM.
#43. To: Gatlin, Hank Rearden (#41)
cite specific incidents, other than the most recent school shooting?
#44. To: tpaine (#40)
TC -- Good point. --- The solution might be to have one child's parent in every class (a volunteer parent with a cc permit). Such parents could volunteer to attend one of their children's classes every month (given a class size of 30 kids), The schools Parent Teacher Association could work out the details and scheduling.. Comments?
#45. To: Tooconservative (#42)
(Edited)
I'm not sure how they can stop him or do anything else.
I did not say and neither did I mean to imply they would stop him. I am assuming that he is on private property with permission on fhe owner. If not, then I am assuming he is more than 100 feet from the school on public property. Of course, you never know, maybe there are kids or teachers in that school who do feel more secure, seeing a heavily armed guy standing watch quietly across the street.
Even so, I can see how this is problematic, a heavily-armed neighborhood watch kind of thing.
#46. To: Gatlin (#45)
If not, then I am assuming he is more than 100 feet from the school on public property.
#47. To: Tooconservative (#46)
Within 1000 feet on any public property. That's the law.
Sorry, typo....I knew that. I read it in your earlier post.
#48. To: Tooconservative, Y'ALL (#44)
Have you even met any of today's parents? LOL
#49. To: Gatlin (#47)
#50. To: Tooconservative (#46)
(Edited)
Within 1000 feet on any public property. That's the law.
#51. To: tpaine (#50)
(Edited)
...that 1000 ft 'rule' has been successfully challenged several times in lower courts.
#52. To: Deckard (#22)
Your agenda here is to denigrate a group of veterans and COPS who refuse to follow UNCONSTITUTIONAL orders and have a plan to offer protection to schools.
I have no agenda. My only purpose is to expose you to the truth about the leadership of the organization you and so many others blindly and foolishly support.
#53. To: Deckard (#52)
(Edited)
#54. To: All (#53)
#55. To: Gatlin (#54)
Official Associate Member status
Membership certificate suitable for framing
Laminated membership card with sequential member number
Access to our members-only national forum
2 Oath Keepers bumper stickers and 1 back window sticker
#56. To: Jameson (#23)
So....I doubt this could be done by volunteers...
#57. To: Tooconservative (#55)
(Edited)
I bet their members-only forum is a riot.
Everything is done on the “QT” wth them. I find no organizational chart and definitely nowhere is the salary listed that Elmer Rhodes pays himself to serve as president. I find no articles of corporation. It is my opinion that he did not file for organization as a corporation because he would have had to make financial disclosures. The OK would easily qualify as a non-profit. The more I look into them...the more I only see deeper darkness.
#58. To: Gatlin (#57)
#59. To: Deckard (#22)
So your absurd claim is that Oathkeepers ..
The claim about Oath Keepers is not absurd....and others have similar claims. Virginia Oath Keepers and the Status of the national organization
#60. To: Deckard (#22)
Your agenda here ...
I repeat, I have no agenda here....I am only making an effort to get you to open your mind while I expose you to the truth and challenge your blind obedient loyalty to Elmer Stewart Rhodes and his band of Oath Keepers.
#61. To: sneakypete (#36)
You have no fricking clue what their vetting process is Parsons.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.
#62. To: Gatlin (#60)
challenge your blind obedient loyalty to Elmer Stewart Rhodes and his band of Oath Keepers.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.
#63. To: Deckard, sneakypete (#61)
Gatlin has continually misrepresented my position on this issue.
I have done no such thing. I simply stated: Reading their membership application, the best I can determine that even the school shooter Nikolas Cruz could have joined and stood across the street.
You did not deny that or show that I was wrong. All you did was go into a wildly impassioned hissy fit, stating: What a colossal load of steaming bullshit! It's unbelievable what your fevered delusional mind comes up with.
Then I told you: I would be extremely grateful to be proven wrong. See if you can do that by going right now and use a pseudo-name with all other false information to join. You will find that you can join the Oath Keepers as a “John Doe.” I have shown you their membership application….NOW, you PROVE me wrong.
I continued: I have shown you how Nikolas Cruz could have joined Oath Keepers and become an Associate Member. Stop with the insults and show me where I am wrong.
Now, show Pete exactly where I misrepresented your position. I made my point earlier. The group should co-ordinate with local police departments who can check out the volunteers to make sure they don't have any past indiscretions.
You made no point, all you did in your first post was state: Good job Oathkeepers. Parsons [Gatlin] loathes you because you defend the Constitution.
I told you they would have let Cruz join their organization and become an associate member the day before he shoot up the school. I showed you their website and how he could have….how any nut can. You responded with: His [Gatlin’s] claim that the Oathkeepers would allow a nutcase like Cruz to guard a school is just more evidence of his rampant senility.
Just another gross insult by no proof of deniability. I have once again review everything I can possibly find about becoming a member of the Oath Keepers. It still boils down to one thing….MONEY. I find there is no psychological check run on Oath Keepers members to determine their mental condition and no criminal background check either. If they are ex- military, there is no determination made to see if they suffer from severe PTSD.
I still say that an 18-year-old with psychological problems like Curz apparently has can join Oath Keepers simply by sending the $29.99 for a year’s associate membership dues. You say the Oath Keepers would never let someone like Cruz join, but you provide nothing to back up your statement.
#64. To: Deckard (#62)
You appear to be angry.
#65. To: Gatlin (#41)
Would it be possible for you to specifically characterize “quite often” in both frequency of occurrence and number of LEOs involved....then cite specific incidents, other than the most recent school shooting?
#66. To: Hank Rearden. GrandIsland (#65)
(Edited)
"And our law enforcement, as good as it is, can’t be everywhere."
Would it be possible for you to specifically characterize “quite often” in both frequency of occurrence and number of LEOs involved....then cite specific incidents, other than the most recent school shooting? Ever hear of Columbine? How many dozens of "heroes" cowered outside while many died? One teacher was shot in both arms and could have been easily saved, but he bled out while the "heroes" waited for the donut delivery.
Yes, I have heard of Columbine. Do you ever think about learning the facts surrounding a situation before you shoot off your mouth? How many dozens of "heroes" cowered outside while many died?
You have a profound propensity to grossly overstate things while using exaggerated hyperbole. You first use the term “quite often” when I asked … Would it be possible for you to specifically characterize “quite often” in both frequency of occurrence and number of LEOs involved....then cite specific incidents, other than the most recent school shooting?
… then you only cite “one incident” which in no way fits your “quite often” categorization and then you infer there were “many dozens” of police officers arriving at Columbine when the news reposts show there were only seven police officers. Police were at the school right away. Within five minutes of the first shots fired, the sheriff's deputy assigned to work at the school was in the west parking lot. He exchanged gunfire with Harris who retreated into the school. That deputy was soon joined by six other policemen who took positions around the building. None of them entered the school. 1
Seven police officers are definitely not “many dozens” of police officers. … while the "heroes" waited for the donut delivery.
Your gratuitous remark was uncalled and definitely unwarranted because it was lacking in good reason. It was therefore insulting to your intelligence since you did not avail yourself the judgmental opportunity to learn the facts. Sheriff Stone said that by taking positions around the building and waiting for SWAT teams to arrive, his officers were doing what they were trained to do. 2
My thanks to GrandIsland for the following enlightening information and clarification on police procedures upon arriving at the scene of an active shooting. Gatlin: What would be the “normal” protocol for an officer arriving at the door of a building with active shooting going on inside the building?
And so, Mister Rearden, There were not “many dozens of "heroes" cowering and hiding in fear” or “waiting for donuts” outside Columbine while people died. There were seven police officers doing what they were intensely trained to do, securing the perimeter and waiting for SWAT. As so stated, that trained procedure turned out to be wrong and it was smartly changed.
#67. To: Liberator, Deckard (#24)
" We know what Gilligan is and has always been.
#68. To: Deckard, All (#66)
Mark Cowan, the Oath Keeper standing guard outside an Indiana school pleaded guilty in July, 2017, to a misdemeanor battery change according to Allen County court documents and he was sentenced to a year of unsupervised probation, which is still ongoing.
#69. To: Gatlin (#68)
Mark Cowan, the Oath Keeper standing guard outside an Indiana school pleaded guilty in July, 2017, to a misdemeanor battery change
#70. To: hondo68 (#69)
Will you please try at some time to post an intelligent comment and contribute words of value to an ongoing discussion on a thread?
#71. To: Gatlin (#68)
Cowan has decided to leave his AR-15 at home and will call the authorities if he observes anything suspicious.
#72. To: Tooconservative (#71)
Cowan has decided to leave his AR-15 at home and will call the authorities if he observes anything suspicious.
A lady called the cops and although the cops probably suspected it was Cowan she was calling about, they of course had to respond immediately with lights and siren. I figure the cops had enough of his stupid ass and “strongly suggested” that he leave the damn gun at home. So, another of Deckard’s Oath Keepers bites the dust in fallen glory. I wonder if I should cue YouTube “Taps” at this time ....thinking about it.
#73. To: Gatlin (#72)
I wonder if I should cue YouTube “Taps” at this time ....thinking about it.
#74. To: Gatlin (#70)
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