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Title: Condoleezza Rice says US needs to consider Second Amendment's place in 'modern world'
Source:
Fox News
URL Source: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201 ... nts-place-in-modern-world.html
Published: Feb 25, 2018
Author: Amy Lieu
Post Date: 2018-02-25 07:27:02 by IbJensen
Keywords: None
Views: 10845
Comments: 144
This month's massacre in Parkland, Fla., seems like a key moment in the nation's ongoing debate about the Second Amendment, former U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said during a radio interview Friday. “I think it is time to have a conversation about what the right to bear arms means in the modern world,” Rice told radio host Hugh Hewitt on Friday. “I don’t understand why civilians need to have access to military weapons. We wouldn’t say you can go out and buy a tank.” More specifically, Rice said weapons like the AR-15 rifle that authorities say shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz, 19, used to kill 17 students and teachers Feb. 14, shouldn't be available to civilians, the Washington Times reported. NIKOLAS CRUZ CHARGED IN FLORIDA SCHOOL SHOOTING But Rice, who served under President George W. Bush, made clear that she remains a believer in the Second Amendment. “We can’t throw away the Second Amendment and keep the First,” she said, adding that she considers the first two amendments to the Constitution to be “indivisible.” “We can’t throw away the Second Amendment and keep the First.” - Condoleezza Rice, former U.S. secretary of state Hewitt then asked if Rice -- being an educator herself as a political science professor at Stanford University -- supports the idea of teachers carrying guns as a deterrent to potential campus shootings. Rice said she doesn’t think that is “going to be the answer,” the Washington Times reported. “I don’t really like the idea, frankly, of a gun in my classroom,” she said. Rather, she supports looking to law enforcement and guards as ways for protection. Rice, 63, was exposed to senseless violence at an early age, having grown up in Birmingham, Ala., where the bombing of the 16th Street Baptist Church in 1963 resulted in the deaths of four young girls. She has written and spoken frequently about the impression the horrific event made on her. She told Hewitt that despite her reservations about weapons in the classroom, the proposal merited a serious discussion. (Watch video at link) Poster Comment: “Modern world” Same modern world pissing away their freedom left and right? No thanks Bush Globalist Harpy. The Second Amendment is to provide protection against a hungry, immense, evil and bankrupt government!
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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 90.
#10. To: IbJensen (#0)
You sound like Bernie Sanders or Hillary.
If it were the case that citizens could take up arms and go to war against the government, then we wouldn't have also included treason in the United States Constitution. We basically said if you take arms up against the government, we're going to knock your block off. And that's what the early presidents ended up doing in Shays' Rebellion Shays' Rebellion and the Whiskey Rebellion. The Second Amendment is not designed to allow the citizenry to arm itself against the government and anyone who argues that it does really has no understanding the true nature of that amendment. And as far as “gun control”….it is a fact, the Founders engaged in large-scale disarmament of the civilian population. The right to bear arms was conditional on swearing a loyalty oath to the government. Individuals who refused to swear such an oath were disarmed. “What was good for the goose is good for the gander?” Oh, NO! Since you disagreed with my statement, then show me any legal authority for citizens to take up arms against the government.
Bosh. Adams wrote in March, 1776 prior to the Declaration. Obviously, Adams was advocating the disarming of "notorious" militant Tories who intended to aid the Tory cause and fight against American independence. In the era of the Founders and early republic, the colonies/states/feds had a lot more trouble from forcing colonists to buy weapons (swords at minimum, muskets by custom) than in seizing weapons from Tories. Of course, the most militant Tories abandoned the colonies and mostly fled to Toronto early on so they didn't cause much problem in practice.
So, you do admit there “obviously” was gun confiscation by the “government.” That was my point.
Adams recommended it to the various pre-Revolutionary committees in the various colonies. You haven't provided any information on just how many weapons were seized during this period of rising Revolutionary sentiment. And it was practical revolutionary policy. The rebel colonists did not want their Tory-sympathizing fellow-colonists shooting them in the back while the rebel colonists were busy shooting Redcoats in the back from cover in the local woods. You may recall how bitterly the British complained over the cowardly colonists shooting at them from concealment. BTW, it was illegal for the Founders to rebel against their lawful monarch, nutty George III, or the authority of the English parliament. The English would have hung the lot of them if they could have laid their hands on the Founders.
You do know that the Bill of Rights (which includes the Second Amendment) was not ratified until 1791, don't you Parsons? Having been approved by the requisite three-fourths of the several states, there being 14 States in the Union at the time (as Vermont had been admitted into the Union on March 4, 1791),the ratification of Articles Three through Twelve was completed and they became Amendments 1 through 10 of the Constitution. President Washington informed Congress of this on December 30, 1791
You do know that I never once mentioned the Second Amendment anywhere In my post, don’t you? Of course you do and there is absolutely no reason for you to respond to me with such an irrelevant question that has noting to do with George Washington confiscating weapons. But to answer you stupid question: Yes, I knew that. When it comes to gun control, argue whatever position you want. But you should remember to always keep the Founders out of it. It is inconsistent with their governing record to believe that they were supporters of unrestricted private firearms. It may surprise you ro learn that the state of New Hampshire saw fit to propose an amendment to give the government full permission to take guns from citizens who “are or have been in Actual Rebellion.” Those early lawmakers were so concerned that they decided the “right to bear arms” would cease if those arms were taken up against our "we the people" government. Remember I mentioned the Whiskey Rebellion in an earlier post where armed Americans took up guns against what they viewed and George Washington’s administration tyrannical government imposing taxes on of all things, whiskey. Well, President Washington called up 13,000 militia men into the army and Washington personally led the troops to squash the rebellion of armed citizens in Bedford, Pennsylvania. So much for any argument that the Second Amendment is the right to have guns to overthrow the oppressive US government. Eh?
You do realize that the 2nd Amendment is the topic of conversation, don't you Parsons?
You do realize that the 2nd Amendment is the topic of conversation, don't you Parsons? No I don’t and you need to realize the topic of my conversation was limited to the Founders confiscating guns. You do realize that you pointed out his was prior to the Second Amendment, don’t you?
Gatlins opinion claiming that: --- "saying the Second Amendment was written for the Americans to take up arms against our government is purely opinionated bullshit". --- is purely semantic word-play bullshit itself, --- seeing that everyone here is writing that the first explanatory line of the 2nd explains why the right shall not be infringed. The milita, the people, --- when no longer living in a free state, --- have a right to take up arms against their oppressive government if it cannot be changed peacefully. That is the clear intent of the 2nd, and gatlins silly attempt to claim the whiskey rebellion proves otherwise is flawed by the fact that it was about booze taxes, and Washington had no constitutional power to raise an army and confiscate arms.. He acted unconstitutionally, and nothing was done about his act. Gatlin: Put on your “big boy” facade and try to dispute my facts when you can.
Gatlin's facts about the Whiskey Rebellion are wrong anyway. President Washington did NOT lead the Army against the rebels, but gave the job to one of his Revolutionary War Generals. President Washington later showed up to beat down that general for abusing his powers and arresting and imprisoning people under cruel conditions without reasonable suspicion that they were involved in any way. Eventually 2 people were tried and given light sentences for the Whiskey Rebellion. George Washington respected the right of armed rebellion against government, so the "perps" were only given a slap on the wrist.
#91. To: hondo68, Gatlin, Put on your big boy facade and try to dispute the facts.. (#90)
President Washington later showed up to beat down that general for abusing his powers and arresting and imprisoning people under cruel conditions without reasonable suspicion that they were involved in any way. Eventually 2 people were tried and given light sentences for the Whiskey Rebellion. George Washington respected the right of armed rebellion against government, so the "perps" were only given a slap on the wrist. Maybe he'll answer you.. Gatlin is too much of a coward to debate me.. He did in the past, but stopped when he lost a lot, poor little fella.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest The Second Amendment is to provide protection against....government!
The notion that the Second Amendment was understood to protect a right to take up arms against the government is absurd. Indeed, the Constitution itself defines such an act as treason.
#11. To: Gatlin (#10)
#14. To: A K A Stone (#11)
You sound like Bernie Sanders or Hillary.
Name calling is for a juvenile. I am expressing my OWN conclusion. I do not believe the Second Amendment gives Americans the right to take up arms against the government and overthrow it. The idea that the Second Amendment was put in there in order to allow citizens to fight their government is insane.
#30. To: Gatlin (#14)
And as far as “gun control”….it is a fact, the Founders engaged in large-scale disarmament of the civilian population. The right to bear arms was conditional on swearing a loyalty oath to the government. Individuals who refused to swear such an oath were disarmed.
Resolved That it be recommended to the several Assemblies, Conventions and Committees or Councils of Safety, of the United Colonies, immediately to cause all Persons to be disarmed, within their respective Colonies, who are notoriously disaffected to the cause of America, or who have not associated, and shall refuse to associate to defend by Arms these united Colonies, against the hostile Attempts of the British Fleets and Armies, and to apply the Arms taken from such Persons in each respective Colony, in the first place, to the Arming the continental Troops raised in said Colony, in the next, to the arming such Troops as are raised by the Colony for its own defence, and the Residue to be applied to the arming the Associators; that the Arms when taken be appraised by indifferent Persons, and such as are applied to the Arming the Continental Troops, be paid for by the Congress and the Residue by the respective Assemblies, Conventions, or Councils or Committees of Safety.
#32. To: Tooconservative (#30)
Obviously, Adams was advocating the disarming of "notorious" militant Tories who intended to aid the Tory cause and fight against American independence.
#35. To: Gatlin (#32)
(Edited)
So, you do admit there “obviously” was gun confiscation by the “government.”
#38. To: Tooconservative (#35)
George Washington’s first action of 1776 was a campaign to confiscate the private arms of the citizens in Queens Co., New York. The impoundments occurred without trial, though the Army did provide receipts, which were redeemable for (nearly worthless) Continental currency. Meanwhile, local militias in New Jersey confiscated arms and livestock from people living along the Jersey shoreline. In one county, the militia was called out specifically to confiscate guns from African-Americans, both free and slave. These were not actions taken against a handful of traitors, but large actions against neighborhoods of people. Guns were confiscated from individuals without due process. Firearms were treated similarly to other kinds of private property impounded for the war effort. In a region under British invasion, the need to win a war trumped individual property rights—including the right to own a gun. 1
#42. To: Gatlin (#38)
George Washington’s first action of 1776 was a campaign to confiscate the private arms of the citizens in Queens Co., New York.
#64. To: Deckard (#42)
(Edited)
You do know that the Bill of Rights (which includes the Second Amendment) was not ratified until 1791, don't you Parsons?
George Washington’s first action of 1776 was a campaign to confiscate the private arms of the citizens in Queens Co., New York.
General George Washington’s first action in 1776 was to confiscate ALL the guns from the private citizens in Queens County, New York. These guns were taken from the civilians by the ARMY without due process and no legal authority. Washington simply ordered members of the army in to take the weapons and provide receipts. Which by the way, were redeemable for the nealy worthless Continental currency. Not only did the army take the guns, they also took livestock from people living all along the Jersey shoreline. In one particular county, the army was called out specifically to confiscate guns from African-Americans, both free and slave. These were no actions taken against a handful of traitors or British sympathizers....these were full-scale door-to-door actions against entire neighborhoods of people.
Since you injected the Second Amendment into the discussion, I will no address that.
#73. To: Gatlin (#64)
You do know that I never once mentioned the Second Amendment anywhere In my post, don’t you?
#76. To: Deckard (#73)
You do know that I never once mentioned the Second Amendment anywhere In my post, don’t you?
#88. To: Y'ALL -- Gatlin can't debate his opinions (#76)
(Edited)
gatlin---- saying the Second Amendment was written for the Americans to take up arms against our government is purely opinionated bullshit. George Washington himself proved this to be true when armed Americans took up guns against what they viewed and George Washington’s administration tyrannical government imposing taxes on of all things, whiskey. Well, President Washington called up 13,000 militia men into the army and Washington personally led the troops to squash the rebellion of armed citizens in Bedford, Pennsylvania.
#90. To: tpaine, gatltin, hates liberty, and God given rights (#88)
That is the clear intent of the 2nd, and gatlins silly attempt to claim the whiskey rebellion proves otherwise is flawed by the fact that it was about booze taxes, and Washington had no constitutional power to raise an army and confiscate arms.. He acted unconstitutionally, and nothing was done about his act.
Replies to Comment # 90. Gatlin's facts about the Whiskey Rebellion are wrong anyway. President Washington did NOT lead the Army against the rebels, but gave the job to one of his Revolutionary War Generals.
End Trace Mode for Comment # 90.
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