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Title: Trump pushes ban on 'bump stocks' — devices that turn weapons into 'machine guns' (Executive Memorandum to AG Sessions)
Source: CNBC
URL Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/20/tru ... weapons-into-machine-guns.html
Published: Feb 20, 2018
Author: Dan Mangan
Post Date: 2018-02-20 18:37:44 by Hondo68
Ping List: *Bang List*     Subscribe to *Bang List*
Keywords: leaves no loopholes, should be illegal, a rule banning
Views: 7138
Comments: 62

  • Bump stocks are devices that render semi-automatic rifles capable of firing hundreds of rounds every minute.
  • Stephen Paddock, the gunman who killed 58 people and wounded hundreds more last October in Las Vegas, had at least 12 rifles outfitted with bump stocks.

Trump recommends bump stocks should be illegal from CNBC.

President Donald Trump announced Tuesday that he has recommended that "bump stocks" — devices that let semi-automatic weapons fire hundreds of rounds per minute — be banned.

Trump signed a memorandum recommending that Attorney General Jeff Sessions propose regulations that would declare that bump stocks are illegal because they effectively turn legal semi-automatic weapons into outlawed machine guns.

Stephen Paddock, the gunman who killed 58 people and wounded hundreds of others in Las Vegas in October had at least 12 rifles fitted with bump stocks, authorities have said.

Trump's announcement came six days after a gunman killed 17 people, 14 of them students, at a high school in Parkland, Florida, while armed with an AR-15 assault rifle.

"We cannot merely take actions that make us feel like we are making a difference. We must actually make a difference," Trump said at a White House event honoring first responders.

"After the deadly shooting in Las Vegas, I directed [Sessions] to clarify whether certain bump stock devices like the one used in Las Vegas are illegal under current law," Trump said.

"That process began in December, and just a few moments ago I signed a memorandum directing the attorney general to propose regulations to ban all devices that turn legal weapons into machine guns," Trump said.

"I expect that these critical regulations will be finalized, Jeff, very soon."

The proposed regulators would first have to be published in the Federal Register and be subject to public comment before they could be adopted.

Semi-automatic weapons require a shooter to pull the trigger each time to fire a single round.

But when those weapons are outfitted with a bump stock, the gun's recoil energy is used to "bump" the trigger into the shooter's finger, making it fire much faster.

That makes the weapon more akin to machine guns, which are largely banned in the United States.

Read Trump's memo:

THE WHITE HOUSE

Office of the Press Secretary

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

February 20, 2018

February 20, 2018

MEMORANDUM FOR THE ATTORNEY GENERAL

SUBJECT: Application of the Definition of Machinegun to "Bump Fire" Stocks and Other Similar Devices

After the deadly mass murder in Las Vegas, Nevada, on October 1, 2017, I asked my Administration to fully review how the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives regulates bump fire stocks and similar devices.

Although the Obama Administration repeatedly concluded that particular bump stock type devices were lawful to purchase and possess, I sought further clarification of the law restricting fully automatic machineguns.

Accordingly, following established legal protocols, the Department of Justice started the process of promulgating a Federal regulation interpreting the definition of "machinegun" under Federal law to clarify whether certain bump stock type devices should be illegal. The Advanced Notice of Proposed Rulemaking was published in the "Federal Register" on December 26, 2017. Public comment concluded on January 25, 2018, with the Department of Justice receiving over 100,000 comments.

Today, I am directing the Department of Justice to dedicate all available resources to complete the review of the comments received, and, as expeditiously as possible, to propose for notice and comment a rule banning all devices that turn legal weapons into machineguns.

Although I desire swift and decisive action, I remain committed to the rule of law and to the procedures the law prescribes. Doing this the right way will ensure that the resulting regulation is workable and effective and leaves no loopholes for criminals to exploit. I would ask that you keep me regularly apprised of your progress.

You are authorized and directed to publish this memorandum in the "Federal Register".

DONALD J. TRUMP

###


Poster Comment:

Getting a head start on Congressional 2a infringements. Trump has beaten Chuck Schumer and Diane Feinswine to the punch!

MAGA till ya puke.Subscribe to *Bang List*

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 46.

#1. To: hondo68 (#0)

I'm fine with this. It's not banning firearms,it's banning a buttstock.

I honestly have no idea why anybody would want one to start with. They destroy accuracy. Why use 10 shots to do something you should be able to do with one shot?

Then again,I HATE inaccurate firearms of all types,and ain't real crazy about legitimate full-auto guns. I see no real practical use for them unless you are facing a mass attack like the Chinese and Koreans did during the Korean War,or sometimes when firing from ambush.

A round you send down range that falls to the dirt or ends up in a tree might as well be left at home. It's foolishness.

sneakypete  posted on  2018-02-20   20:17:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: sneakypete (#1)

Anyone who understands how these things work can actually fake the same firing effect without a bump stock.

Here's a guy showing two popular scary guns with standard stocks, autofiring just by careful positioning. Clearly, one works much better. There are dozens of these DIY bumpfire vids on YouBoob.

Most gunowners don't care about these accessories. Trump is going to lose very little support if he goes for a ban. He might even pick up some votes.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-02-20   20:25:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Tooconservative (#2)

Or you can use your belt loop.

But liberals are not banning bumpfire stocks per se -- they're banning the concept of turning a semi-auto rifle into a full auto. Once we buy into that, they'll use videos like yours to demonstrate that more needs to be done. Perhaps a bolt-action AR-15 is not that far away.

misterwhite  posted on  2018-02-21   9:57:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: misterwhite, sneakypete (#11)

But liberals are not banning bumpfire stocks per se -- they're banning the concept of turning a semi-auto rifle into a full auto. Once we buy into that, they'll use videos like yours to demonstrate that more needs to be done. Perhaps a bolt-action AR-15 is not that far away.

I think the bumpstock is so marginal in appeal overall that a lot of pro-gun people would put up with a ban on it. LF, for instance, is highly pro-gun but none of us own or want to own one.

I think this may be a political tradeoff. The GOP and NRA will sacrifice bumpstocks to satisfy some gungrabbing craving by the public after the Vegas shooting, the Florida school shooting and the Florida gay nightclub Muslim massacre. Florida does have two massacres in the last few years. We'll have "done something" even if it doesn't make the public safer. And even some gunfolk will consider sacrificing bumpstocks (a marginal product for good shooters) to be worth it.

It may also be that the GOP is drawing into this debate just to kill it again. The proposed solutions like banning bumpstocks don't address any of the major recent massacres. And it could provide a debate forum for all the failures of the FBI, the school, the local cops, the state's child services. All were notified repeatedly about this kid, including specific warnings that he was going to shoot up a school. And all that See-Something-Say-Something still resulted in no action from any agency and 17 dead kids as a result. You start to wonder if anyone who knew this kid did not consider him a danger to massacre a school.

That's not such a bad political debate to have.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-02-21   10:16:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Tooconservative (#12)

"I think the bumpstock is so marginal in appeal overall that a lot of pro-gun people would put up with a ban on it."

Logically, that makes sense. But I oppose it because, as I said, the gun grabbers are not banning bumpstocks -- they're banning rapid-fire weapons.

How do you justify banning bumpstocks but not banning the ability to rapid-fire as shown in your video? What's the difference (besides a piece of plastic)?

Your justification for banning bumpstocks will be used against you.

misterwhite  posted on  2018-02-21   12:56:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: misterwhite (#22)

How do you justify banning bumpstocks but not banning the ability to rapid-fire as shown in your video? What's the difference (besides a piece of plastic)?

The actual effect of preventing or diminishing mass shootings is marginal if you're talking about a person who is expert in weapons.

The largest gains you can make are in reducing the death toll in a massacre, not in preventing it.

How do you justify banning bumpstocks but not banning the ability to rapid-fire as shown in your video? What's the difference (besides a piece of plastic)?

Bumpstocks are intended to skirt the accepted laws on fully automatic guns. That's how.

I understand your position and you're welcome to defend it. I think you'll find that a lonely perch except among the most radical gun rights folk. And I do consider myself pretty pro-gun. But selling something that is so clearly intended to skirt longstanding law is another thing. The only appeal of the bumpstock is as a lawful automatic weapon that allows buyers to evade the requirement for the federal full-auto gun license and tracking requirements.

No one bought any bumpstocks with anything but the intent to skirt the ban on full-auto weapons (except for those who acquire the full-auto tax stamp, ~$300).

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-02-21   13:23:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Tooconservative, y'all (#23)

I understand your position and you're welcome to defend it. I think you'll find that a lonely perch except among the most radical gun rights folk. And I do consider myself pretty pro-gun. But selling something that is so clearly intended to skirt longstanding law is another thing. The only appeal of the bumpstock is as a lawful automatic weapon that allows buyers to evade the requirement for the federal full-auto gun license and tracking requirements.

No one bought any bumpstocks with anything but the intent to skirt the ban on full-auto weapons (except for those who acquire the full-auto tax stamp, ~$300).

It is NOT a radical position to assert that prohibiting full auto weapons is an infringement.

By accepting the claim that any level of government can prohibitively tax or outright bann any type of weapon, supporters defy the principle that we all have an inalienable right to defend ourselves with the arms we can bear.. -- Clearly stated in the 2nd amendment.

There is no denying that full auto guns are light enough to carry, just as are cans of gasoline, matches, and other types of explosives. -- Small, light weapons of mass destruction are a fact of life and prohibitions DO NOT WORK in reality..

Prohibitions enable socialism, and are a direct assault on our Constitutional Republic.

tpaine  posted on  2018-02-21   14:19:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: tpaine (#33)

It is NOT a radical position to assert that prohibiting full auto weapons is an infringement.

Yes, it is.

A constitutional right is not unlimited. Free speech does not extend to the right to shout 'Fire!' in a crowded theater.

Yeah, I said it. So there. LOL

Anyway, that's where these arguments always end up, along with sinister but oblique references to slippery slopes.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-02-21   14:22:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Tooconservative (#34)

It is NOT a radical position to assert that prohibiting full auto weapons is an infringement. Yes, it is.

A constitutional right is not unlimited. Free speech does not extend to the right to shout 'Fire!' in a crowded theater.

Yeah, I said it. So there. LOL

Carrying an arm is not a threat, it is a constitutional right not to be infringed..

Shouting 'Fire!' in a crowded theater is a criminal act

Yep, you said it. Can't come up with anything but the old fire bull? -- LOL

tpaine  posted on  2018-02-21   14:36:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: tpaine (#36)

Carrying an arm is not a threat, it is a constitutional right not to be infringed..

Shouting 'Fire!' in a crowded theater is a criminal act

Yep, you said it. Can't come up with anything but the old fire bull? -- LOL

Let's just save some keystrokes and declare that all as a "given".     : )

I think we've both seen this show before. And more than once.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-02-21   14:50:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: Tooconservative (#42)

Let's just save some keystrokes and declare that all as a "given". : )

I think we've both seen this show before. And more than once.

Of course we've had these discussions before. -- But when are you going to admit:----

There is no denying that full auto guns are light enough to carry, just as are cans of gasoline, matches, and other types of explosives. -- Small, light weapons of mass destruction are a fact of life and prohibitions DO NOT WORK in reality..

Prohibitions enable socialism, and are a direct assault on our Constitutional Republic.

Thus:--- It is NOT a radical position to assert that prohibiting full auto weapons is an infringement.

tpaine  posted on  2018-02-21   15:15:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 46.

#48. To: tpaine, *Bang List* (#46)

Thus:--- It is NOT a radical position to assert that prohibiting full auto weapons is an infringement.

Agreed, 100%

Hondo68  posted on  2018-02-21 15:36:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: tpaine (#46)

There is no denying that full auto guns are light enough to carry, just as are cans of gasoline, matches, and other types of explosives. -- Small, light weapons of mass destruction are a fact of life and prohibitions DO NOT WORK in reality..

In any era in America, there are rights. Then there are how the public and the courts really feel about them. The record is not exactly consistent. Politics and public mood have huge influence on legislatures and courts.

You ignore the role of sentiment in how public policy is enacted and modified by the courts.

But you probably knew I was going to say that. These kinds of arguments do get a bit tired.     : )

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-02-21 15:38:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 46.

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