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Title: Christian Peace
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Published: Feb 13, 2018
Author: Vicomte13
Post Date: 2018-02-13 19:05:02 by Vicomte13
Keywords: None
Views: 12558
Comments: 101
It's been a rough couple of days around here. Several of us, myself included, have not behaved in a manner at all befitting of a follower of Jesus. I propose that we cut that off and come back together in peace. We worship the same God and follow the same Lord. And he admonished us to love each other. Having gone in the other direction and riled ourselves up with hatred, what do we have to show for it? Nothing good. So lets cut our losses and get back in line with our leader, who is in heaven. For my part, I am sorry for all of the harsh words. I was hurt and angry, and lashing out, trying to inflict hurt and spread around the hate. We all know this is bad. I'm sorry I did it, and I will work much harder to keep my hot blood in check in the future. If I hurt any of you, I'm sorry. VxH, let's make peace. Too Conservative, I'm sorry I swore at you. A K A Stone - it's your site, and I spread crap all over the place out of wrath. I am sorry, and I will try to not do that ever again. Our interpretations of Christianity are different, but do we disagree that we are not supposed to carry on like this? Surely we all do. So let's all repent of it, change a different direction, turn the other cheek, forgive and forget, and move on in a more positive direction. That's what I will try to do.
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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 84.
#10. To: Vicomte13 (#0)
Love ya Bro and thanks for this thread. If I have ever offended you in any way I apologize and seek forgiveness. God Bless.
God Bless. Thank you. Everybody here needs to try harder at this, and we would all enjoy the place more.
Vicomte13 posted No you need to try harder at this. You were getting your ass kicked up and down the aisle because you were ignoring scripture. Adding to scripture. Making stuff up saying Mary wasn't a sinner. Yes that is some Catholic bullshit. I recall another time you were getting your ass kicked. You pulled this same stunt. Same type of thread. Let's all get along. Thing is I don't want to go along with bullshit to get along. That doesn't mean ai I don't like you or hate you. It means some of your beliefs are out there and not based on scripture. Then someone calls you on it because it isn't in the Bible because it is some made up bullshit. Then you get all mad about it and start saying we aren't christians. I was very careful to say that I don't think Catholics who are doctrinelky in errror that they could still be saved if they actually believed that Jesussus was the saviour. So we don't all need to do better. That is some liberal group think bullshit.
Ok. Well, I tried. I was not "getting my ass kicked" or anything like it. There was a thread about gays, and VxH showed up and decided to bring my father's death from AIDS, as if to make a point. This was very nasty business, but it did not "kick my ass", it made me properly angry. What I wrote here is objectively true. Christian people should not be talking to each other the way that they do here. If people are to discuss Scripture, God, things spiritual, they should do so in a manner that respects the subject matter. You don't. Too Conservative does not. I try to. I am not going to debate Scripture with you on this thread. That was not the point. The point was to remind everybody that we are supposed to live within boundaries and keep a guard on our mouths. You don't want to do so, indeed, you see weakness in doing what Christ said to do. So let that be upon your head. It has never here been a matter of getting my ass kicked intellectually. Truth is, none of you ever actually engage with the ideas I present. What you do is start to rant and get nastier and meaner, hurling accusations. You, and Too Conservative, and VxH, take the conversation in a direction that forces me to choose to be uncivil and coarse - which sometimes I do, but I'm not good at it and am unwilling to keep at - or to back away and cease the discussion. Your message just told me that you don't care about the limits that Christians are supposed to place on their mouths, that you're not going to, that you don't read well, that you're not honest, and that you're going to go right on being a nasty jerk, that that's what this site is for - take it or leave it. I choose to leave it. Good bye. Close my account.
You should get an Oscar for this dramatic little performance. It was you who claimed angelic ancestry on that thread, starting in #39. It was you who claimed that the Father had carnal organs and had sex with Mary in your #84: And of course the Father begat Jesus via Mary. Then, after much protestation, I reviewed some of your other heresies regarding whether God is the author of evil and whether Jesus was an XX male (hermaphrodite or close to it) in my #184, claims that you made in just since September. You can't spout a lot of known ancient heresies (sprinkling in a few you made up for yourself) and not expect Christians with orthodox views to quietly assent to it or agree with you. This is even more true when your own church of Rome does not hold any of these positions and would, if the point were forced, condemn your views on these matters. So you can stomp off, all hurt and self-righteous. But the truth is that you picked a fight with orthodox Christian belief as it has been known since ancient times and you got your ass kicked. And you think that's unfair. I didn't and don't particularly want you to leave LF. But if you do, it's on you, bub. You wanted dialogue. You got it. And these were all topics you knew in advance were pure trouble and likely to start fights. Yet you persisted. Then you want to play the wounded woman and flee. Well, fine. But what I have described in this post is a very fair summary of what you did. It's on you, not on us, if you choose to leave after making an ass of yourself.
We Catholics call that Immaculate Conception, it's NOT boning Mary! It's no wonder that you're prohibited from having statutes of Mary the Blessed Virgin.
We Catholics call that Immaculate Conception, it's NOT boning Mary! It's no wonder that you're prohibited from having statutes of Mary the Blessed Virgin. Are you sure you passed your catechism? I thought this doctrine was drilled into every Catholic child. Wiki: The Immaculate Conception is commonly confused with the Virgin Birth of Jesus. Jesus' birth is covered by the Doctrine of Incarnation, while the Immaculate Conception deals with the conception of Mary, not that of her son. Although the belief that Mary was sinless, or conceived without original sin, has been widely held since Late Antiquity, the doctrine was not dogmatically defined until 1854, by Pope Pius IX in his papal bull Ineffabilis Deus.[2] The Catholic Church celebrates the Feast of the Immaculate Conception on December 8; in many Catholic countries, it is a holy day of obligation or patronal feast, and in some a national public holiday. Without exception, the church of Rome insists that the Immaculate Conception was that of Mary, not of Jesus. If you believe otherwise, try to find any authoritative Catholic source that says so. You could start with, for instance, Catholic.com, a very staid Roman source: Maybe you should write them some emails to correct their theological errors. I'm sure they'd like to hear from you. So I'm kinda wondering just how devoutly Catholic you can possibly be if some Prot retard like me knows fundamental Roman doctrine from the catechism better than you seem to.
So I'm kinda wondering just how devoutly Catholic you can possibly be No I'm not sure, that was a long time ago. Anyway you can't flunk out of being baptized a Catholic. I haven't been excommunicated yet that I know of, so I'm still in. I never made any claims to be devoutly Catholic, just a regular old school lapsed Catholic. The most popular type by far. If you expect me to be all new wave Catholic, and read all of Francis' drivel you can just forget that notion, no way! Fred Mertz is probably all up to date on the latest Francis propaganda in his church bulletin.
As I documented, the doctrine of Immaculate Conception was infallibly dictated by the pope in 1854. And it is part of catechism. I wouldn't state it as any kind of expert but I don't think you can be considered a real Roman Catholic without espousing it. It's not just a matter of conscience where you can choose to believe it or not. The pope says that you must believe it without exception.
Alright then, believe whatever you like, but I also confirmed that I was a Catholic Christian, and was slapped by a Bishop. The confirmation name that I chose is John. I'm not going to try to defend Catholicism against your straw-man "God's penis". Show me a quote by Vic talking about God's johnson. Vic is a weirdo, but you've got him beat!
I'm not going to try to defend Catholicism against your straw-man "God's penis". Show me a quote by Vic talking about God's johnson. There are minimum requirements. Not attending church at least weekly and on feast/holy days of obligation is considered by the Catholic Church as mortal sin. Unless one is too sick. https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/why-is-it-a-mortal-sin-to- miss-mass
Yeah, on paper. But when did they last enforce it on anyone? When did they refuse communion for that, refuse a burial because of it, refuse deathbed rites from a priest? They don't. Not that I know of. So it's required but mostly toothless.
They don't. Not that I know of. So it's required but mostly toothless. The confessional is their answer. I don't know if it was the parish priest's rule but I remember going to confession before every holy day of obligation was not optional. I remember as a 10 year old trying to come up with stuff to confess. I was always arguing with my siblings so that was an easy one. Again it depends on the motivation and devotion. With my mother we never missed a Sunday even on vacation and only missed if we were running a high fever. I don't think I witnessed my mother miss church at all in my time under my parents roof. And my dad was an usher and Knights of Columbus and was always doing something with the Church to include run BINGO nights. We were more strict than the Reagan family on Blue Bloods. :-) Even when in Florida retired they were even more active. When both of them were homebound in their 80s they found ways to get to church and if not due to their waning months of life a priest or Eucharistic minister came by the house or assisted living facility. I remember visiting my dad before he passed. He gave me a mission to find his priest and get him to come to his nursing home. I had to track down the dude and bring him there. I was successful. When he got there my father asked him a few questions about the book of Romans. Mind you his mind was not all there, but here I was answering his questions and the priest was listening. FYI my parents got involved with an Evangelical Bible study when they moved to their retirement community. They both accepted Christ as Lord and Savior a few years before they passed. They stayed with the Catholic church as that is all they knew.
Woh. I never realized you were from such a devout Roman Catholic family. Urban Catholic life, especially on the east coast, was obviously quite different from the kind of Catholicism you would find in rural America in places that I knew. Only in the largest towns could anyone go to Mass every day. In places like NYC, many older people would expect daily Mass as a matter of course. The sacraments gain a powerful hold in that way.
My father -- born in the early 1930s -- lived and grew up in Harlem, NYC. His family were Italian immigrants, poor, and living in a cold-water flat on the 4th or 5th floor. Heat was partially provided by whatever driftwood and scrap wood could be scrounged from the banks of the East River along with his dad. They'd also scrounge up wild mushrooms and greens. It was a tough existence, substinance was meager. BUT...there was little or ZERO crime. To your point of "Urban Catholic life," the local parish routinely provided many of the parishioners' needs, from clothes, to food, to any and all kinds of help. The church was THE epicenter of its local society. Many remained stout RCCs for life, working those rosaries to the bone (like Gramma.) She may have attended mass often -- including obviously Sundays -- but I NEVER hear a single word from her regarding the Bible when I was a child. (Just a random memory): From age 7-15 of routinely attending Mass on Sunday (as well as attending Catechism for 4 years), I never heard any Scripture during a sermon other than a brief verse from one of the NT Gospels. Never was any Old Testament scripture ever uttered.
I have heard that before, more than once. I do think they do a lot better over the last 30 years. Vatican II did lead to some positive changes. Prior to that and starting around 1910, while Catholics had been officially (very mildly) encouraged to read the Bible and know it, it still wasn't all that accepted as a practice among the older pre-Vatican Catholics. They were all Mass-and-sacraments types and it couldn't be spiritually correct if it wasn't uttered in Latin with reference to the theology of Thomas of Aquinas. You know what I mean. Vatican II tried to do more to compete with the teaching of the Bible in the Prot churches, especially in wealthy Western countries that were the breadbasket of Vatican fundraising. They knew they needed to compete. The Vatican is a church but every church is still a business in some sense, as distasteful as it sounds to say it. So around the Eighties, it seems they got much more active in preaching some scripture and encouraging bible study, always within the lines naturally.
Yup. IN LATIN. Especially in NYC. They knew they needed to compete. The Vatican is a church but every church is still a business in some sense, as distasteful as it sounds to say it. So around the Eighties, it seems they got much more active in preaching some scripture and encouraging bible study, always within the lines naturally. "Competition" in that sense of forcing the RCC to become...I guess, "more Protestant" in style if not also in content somewhat wound up a good thing. That said, the Mass always seemed to be more about all the little traditional rites and performance art, and little to do with teaching the word. By my end days of attending Mass they'd even brought in folk guitarists to perform the music instead of the tradition pipe organ, which definitely signaled a different direction.
Speaking of a different direction, didn't the change come along around the time that the priest stopped facing the altar to consecrate and started facing the congregation? There are still Catholics (Mel Gibson would be one), who get very hot on that topic. I think us Prots just don't get the whole dispute, anyway I don't. Gibson funded that Latin rite church just so his dad could attend a real old-fashioned pre-Vatican II Catholic mass in Latin and with the priest facing the altar.
I may have been too young or bored to notice. The olde-timers would have noticed something like that...or someone paying attention. My son attended a mass several years ago with his friends, who attended RCC. His impression was first and foremost that he was impressed by...THE SHOW. The whole rites thing is impressive if you're watching it from a performance standpoint. There are still Catholics (Mel Gibson would be one), who get very hot on that topic. I think us Prots just don't get the whole dispute, anyway I don't. Gibson funded that Latin rite church just so his dad could attend a real old-fashioned pre-Vatican II Catholic mass in Latin and with the priest facing the altar. I don't get it either; can't fathom a God who dings Salvation (and knocks off points) because of something like that. OR, forgetting to dab the finger in the Holy Water tray, a women lacking headwear, or any number of Venial Sin oversights. Well, Mel is traditional about SOME things, isn't he? So he did establish his own church? Just for his dad? Heard he's planned a follow up to 'The Passion...', which will explore the aftermath of Christ' last days before ascending afterward. Should break more theater attendance records as Hollywood continues to hate on Gibson.
Gibson's father was something else. Gibson is an outspoken critic, both of the post-Vatican II Roman Catholic Church and of those Traditionalist Catholics, like the Society of Saint Pius X, who reject Sedevacantism. Gibson is also a proponent of various conspiracy theories. In a 2003 interview he questioned how the Nazis could have disposed of six million bodies during the Holocaust and claimed that the September 11, 2001 attacks were perpetrated by remote control.[1] He has also been quoted as saying the Second Vatican Council was "a Masonic plot backed by the Jews".[2] . . . In 2006 Gibson's foundation, The World Faith Foundation of California, which is funded by Mel Gibson, purchased an existing church structure in the Pittsburgh suburb of Unity, Pennsylvania, and established there a Tridentine sedevacantist congregation called St. Michael the Archangel Roman Catholic Chapel.[38] The Reverend Leonard Bealko, purportedly a former Roman Catholic priest who had left the church voluntarily in 1986, was appointed pastor. By mid-2007 Gibson and his fellow congregants had dismissed Bealko and dissolved the congregation amid charges that Bealko had misrepresented his credentials and mishandled finances.[39] So that Sedevecantist church didn't last but, at the time, it was kind of a Thing when it became clear to libmedia that Gibson and papa were both very very conservative Catholics. Papa made other inflammatory comments too, doing his son no favors.
#85. To: Tooconservative (#84)
There are plenty of conspiracies to speak out about as we know....(naah, you wouldn't know about that) Questioning the Holocaust was the one subject the Gibsons invoked was what made them/him persona non grata to begin with in a Hollywood that's known to be very Jewish, very liberal, very Atheist, and very anti-Christian. I may not agree with the Gibsons on the Holocaust, but it was after all just an opinion. Hollywood has many opinions that at least 50% of America finds offensive. I give Mel points for trying to reach out to God while helping others develop their faith.
Ok, I'll bite... The claim of a 911 "remote control" facet of the attack is interesting, given there is no video footage of the Pentagram "plane." Gibson may have something there. Given what we know today about who runs what, and to what extent those PTB are willing to retain/wield power, it can be said that NO explanation of 911 can truly be discounted or dismissed. Even MORE SO in light of the ongoing coup against DT that's been exposed.
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#12. To: redleghunter (#10)
Love ya Bro and thanks for this thread. If I have ever offended you in any way I apologize and seek forgiveness.
#14. To: Vicomte13 (#12)
(Edited)
Thank you. Everybody here needs to try harder at this, and we would all enjoy the place more.
#17. To: A K A Stone (#14)
#22. To: Vicomte13, A K A Stone, redleghunter (#17)
You, and Too Conservative, and VxH, take the conversation in a direction that forces me to choose to be uncivil and coarse - which sometimes I do, but I'm not good at it and am unwilling to keep at - or to back away and cease the discussion.
Angels had children with human women, creating the Nephilim (and their descendants, the Basques) so apparently they have the equipment...at least some of them. Other than the fact that they mated with human females and produced the Nephilim.
#24. To: Tooconservative (#22)
(Edited)
And of course the Father begat Jesus via Mary.
#29. To: hondo68, A K A Stone, redleghunter (#24)
(Edited)
Vic: And of course the Father begat Jesus via Mary.
The Immaculate Conception, according to the teaching of the Catholic Church, is the conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary free from original sin by virtue of the merits of her son Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church teaches that God acted upon Mary in the first moment of her conception keeping her "immaculate".[1] I. THE DOCTRINE
In the Constitution "Ineffabilis Deus" of December 8, 1854, Pius IX pronounced and defined that the Blessed Virgin Mary "in the first instant of her conception, by a singular privilege and grace granted by God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the human race, was preserved exempt from all stain of original sin" (Denzinger, "Enchiridion", 10th ed., n. 1641). The subject of this immunity from original sin is the person of Mary at the moment of the creation of her soul and its infusion into her body. The term conception does not mean the active or generative conception by her parents. Her body was formed in the womb of the mother, and the father had the usual share in its formation. The question does not concern the immaculateness of the generative activity of her parents. Neither does it concern the passive conception absolutely and simply (conceptio seminis, carnis, inchoata), which, according to the order of nature, precedes the infusion of the rational soul. The person is truly conceived when the soul is created and infused into the body. Mary was preserved exempt from all stain of original sin at the first moment of her animation, and sanctifying grace was given to her before sin could have taken effect in her soul. The formal active essence of original sin was not removed from her soul, as it is removed from others by baptism; it was excluded, it never was in her soul. Simultaneously with the exclusion of sin, the state of original sanctity, innocence, and justice, as opposed to original sin, was conferred upon her, by which gift every stain and fault, all depraved emotions, passions, and debilities, essentially pertaining to original sin, were excluded. But she was not made exempt from the temporal penalties of Adam—from sorrow, bodily infirmities, and death. The immunity from original sin was given to Mary by a singular exemption from a universal law through the same merits of Christ, by which other men are cleansed from sin by baptism. Mary needed the redeeming Savior to obtain this exemption, and to be delivered from the universal necessity and debt (debitum) of being subject to original sin. The person of Mary, in consequence of her origin from Adam, should have been subject to sin, but, being the new Eve who was to be the mother of the new Adam, she was, by the eternal counsel of God and by the merits of Christ, withdrawn from the general law of original sin. Her redemption was the very masterpiece of Christ's redeeming wisdom. He is a greater redeemer who pays the debt that it may not be incurred, than he who pays after it has fallen on the debtor (Ullathorne, "Immac. Conception", p. 89). Such is the meaning of the term "Immaculate Conception".
#31. To: Tooconservative, Fred Mertz, Knights Templar (#29)
Are you sure you passed your catechism?
#33. To: hondo68 (#31)
I never made any claims to be devoutly Catholic, just a regular old school lapsed Catholic. The most popular type by far. If you expect me to be all new wave Catholic, and read all of Francis' drivel you can just forget that notion, no way!
#34. To: Tooconservative, Gods penis idolatry, invented here (#33)
(Edited)
I don't think you can be considered a real Roman Catholic
#46. To: hondo68, TooConservative (#34)
Alright then, believe whatever you like, but I also confirmed that I was a Catholic Christian, and was slapped by a Bishop. The confirmation name that I chose is John.
#56. To: redleghunter (#46)
There are minimum requirements. Not attending church at least weekly and on feast/holy days of obligation is considered by the Catholic Church as mortal sin. Unless one is too sick.
#63. To: Tooconservative (#56)
Yeah, on paper. But when did they last enforce it on anyone? When did they refuse communion for that, refuse a burial because of it, refuse deathbed rites from a priest?
#66. To: redleghunter (#63)
Again it depends on the motivation and devotion. With my mother we never missed a Sunday even on vacation and only missed if we were running a high fever. I don't think I witnessed my mother miss church at all in my time under my parents roof. And my dad was an usher and Knights of Columbus and was always doing something with the Church to include run BINGO nights.
#77. To: Tooconservative, redleghunter (#66)
Urban Catholic life, especially on the east coast, was obviously quite different from the kind of Catholicism you would find in rural America in places that I knew. Only in the largest towns could anyone go to Mass every day. In places like NYC, many older people would expect daily Mass as a matter of course.
#79. To: Liberator (#77)
From age 7-15 of routinely attending Mass on Sunday (as well as attending Catechism for 4 years), I never heard any Scripture during a sermon other than a brief verse from one of the NT Gospels. Never was any Old Testament scripture ever uttered.
#81. To: Tooconservative (#79)
They were all Mass-and-sacraments types and it couldn't be spiritually correct if it wasn't uttered in Latin with reference to the theology of Thomas of Aquinas. You know what I mean.
#82. To: Liberator (#81)
By my end days of attending Mass they'd even brought in folk guitarists to perform the music instead of the tradition pipe organ, which definitely signaled a different direction.
#83. To: Tooconservative (#82)
Speaking of a different direction, didn't the change come along around the time that the priest stopped facing the altar to consecrate and started facing the congregation?
#84. To: Liberator (#83)
(Edited)
11 kids? Yeah, pretty Catholic. Conquering the world, one supine event at a time. Hutton Peter Gibson (born August 26, 1918) is an American writer on Sedevacantism, a World War II veteran, the 1968 Jeopardy! grand champion and the father of 11 children, one of whom is the actor and director Mel Gibson.
Replies to Comment # 84.
#87. To: Tooconservative, Deckard (#84)
End Trace Mode for Comment # 84.
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