[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Mail]  [Sign-in]  [Setup]  [Help]  [Register] 

Evil Mutant Death Walrus

White House chopper mechanic busted with crystal meth after calling the cops on himself

FBI Admits It Used Multiple Spies To Infiltrate Trump Campaign

Judge Orders Mueller To Prove Russian Company Meddled In Election

"The Factory of the World"

Trump Announces He’s a Few Weeks From Banning Bump Stocks

Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump, and Why Civility Can't Return To Politics

Self-Censorship: Where The Real Damage Is Being Done

Decorated Silver Star Veteran, POW Sentenced to 7 Years for a Gun He Bought 40 Years Ago

Facebook Deletes Disabled Vet’s Pages — After Taking $300,000 in Advertising

Rockin’ the Right

State Department provided ‘clearly false’ statements to derail requests for Clinton docs, ‘shocked’ federal judge says

Police Charge a 12-Year-Old Rapper With Felony After Mall Confrontation Over Selling His Own CDs

Stossel: Libertarian Larry Sharpe Brings New Ideas to New York

9/11 was a bank heist

Dear God, Hillary Clinton. Please, Just Go.

Mexico dispatches two Boeing 727s full of federal police officers to intercept migrant caravan from Honduras heading to the US....

stop this onslaught - and if unable to do so I will call up the U.S. Military and CLOSE OUR SOUTHERN BORDER!

High School Girls Admitted to Making False Sexual Assault Accusations Against a Male Student Because They ‘Just Don’t Like Him’

Newly Released Video Challenges Cop's Story in Shooting of Autistic Teen

‘To Kill a Mockingbird’ performance canceled again at Shorewood HS; boy in custody

‘Golfcart Gail’ calls cops on black dad at his kid’s soccer game

You Want to Make America Great Again? Start by Making America Free Again

YouTube users question sanity, reality as service goes dark worldwide (YouTube DOWN, gone)

Trump voter begs for forgiveness: 'Sorry I voted for him -- I've enabled this monster'

Ben Shapiro Explains Socialism in 2 Minutes

Creepy Porn Lawyer slam dunked by Trump in Federal court

Feds raise rate 6 times under Trump but once/twice under Obama

‘I Stand for the Flag, I Kneel at the Cross’: PA Dem Forced to Resign After Facebook Posts Deemed Offensive

Warren’s DNA test mocked, as GOP cites study showing average Native-American link could be stronger

Warren Releases DNA Results, Challenges Trump Over Native American Ancestry

Did Saudis, CIA Fear Khashoggi 9/11 Bombshell?

Portland citizens jeer cowardly anarchists, cheer police! (short version)

With the Saudis, Trump Shows Timidity

Four Democrats Caught in Voter Fraud Ring Targeting Seniors in Fort Worth

'YOU'RE FREE, MAN!' Somalian whose deportation from UK was stopped by outraged Heathrow passengers revealed as gang-rapist who attacked teen girl

Police seeking person who put googly eyes on historic Georgia statue

Antifa mob that should be shot and killed on site

Ford Just Came To Trump' Defense & Destroyed Fake News Media & Their Lies: Tariffs & Their Layoffs

Trident Juncture 2018 Is About to Kick Off: NATO’s Big War Games Near Russia’s Borders Never End

Who Runs Bartertown? (Perpetual Taxes on Property)

'The president of a country should not publicly ridicule a woman who courageously comes forward': Anal Clooney skips royal wedding to take a hit at Trump at Pennsylvania women's conference

Christine Blasey Ford's bogus 'bravery' award nomination

War on Choice: UK Government Sets ‘Calorie Cap’ for Pizzas, Burgers… Even Soup

Good bye ... NFL --- been good knowing you.

M*A*S*H Goes to the Junkyard

Donald Trump Defends Medicare, a Socialist Program, from the Threat of Socialism

I'm at the Trump rally in Warren County Ohio

Libertarian and Police Accountability Pages Deleted in Facebook Purge

US Openly Threatens Russia with War: Goodbye Diplomacy, Hello Stone Age


Status: Not Logged In; Sign In

United States News
See other United States News Articles

Title: Being a faggot is a choice
Source: [None]
URL Source: https://socialinqueery.com/2013/03/ ... raight-here-are-5-reasons-why/
Published: Feb 12, 2018
Author: ejaneward
Post Date: 2018-02-12 11:57:20 by no gnu taxes
Keywords: None
Views: 1156
Comments: 212

1. Just because an argument is politically strategic, does not make it true: A couple of years ago, the Human Rights Campaign, arguably the country’s most powerful lesbian and gay organization, responded to politician Herman Cain’s assertion that being gay is a choice. They asked their members to “Tell Herman Cain to get with the times! Being gay is not a choice!” They reasoned that Cain’s remarks were “dangerous.” Why? “Because implying that homosexuality is a choice gives unwarranted credence to roundly disproven practices such as ‘conversion’ or ‘reparative’ therapy. The risks associated with attempts to consciously change one’s sexual orientation include depression, anxiety and self-destructive behavior.” Image

The problem with such statements is that they infuse biological accounts with an obligatory and nearly coercive force, suggesting that anyone who describes homosexual desire as a choice or social construction is playing into the hands of the enemy. In 2012, the extent to which gay biology had become a moral and political imperative came into full view when actress Cynthia Nixon, after commenting to a New York Times Magazine reporter that she “chose” to pursue a lesbian relationship after many years as a content heterosexual, was met with outrage by lesbian and gay activists. As one horrified gay male writer proclaimed, “[Nixon] just fell into a right-wing trap, willingly. …Every religious right hatemonger is now going to quote this woman every single time they want to deny us our civil rights.” Under considerable pressure from lesbian and gay advocacy groups, Nixon recanted her statement a few weeks later, stating instead that she must have been born with bisexual potential.

Yes, it’s true that straight people are more tolerant when they believe that lesbian and gay people have no choice in the matter. If homosexual desire is hardwired, then we cannot change it; we must live with this condition, and it would be unfair to judge us for that which we cannot change. By implication, if we could choose, of course we would choose to be heterosexual. Any sane person would choose heterosexuality (not so. see here). And when homophobic people come to the opposite conclusion—that homosexual desire is something we can choose—then they want to help us make the right choice, the heterosexual choice. And they are willing to offer this help in the form of violent shock therapy and other “conversion” techniques. In light of all this, I can absolutely understand why it feels much safer to believe that we are born this way, and then to circulate this idea like our lives depend on it (because, for some people, this truly is a matter of life and death). Indeed, most progressive straight people and most gay and bi people–including Lady Gaga herself–hold the conviction that our sexual orientation is innate. They have taken their lead from the mainstream gay and lesbian movement, which has powerfully advocated for this view.

But the fact that the “born this way” hypothesis has resulted in greater political returns for gay and lesbian people doesn’t have anything to do with whether it is true. Maybe, as gay people, we want to get together and pretend it is true because it is politically strategic. That would be interesting. But still, it wouldn’t make the idea true.

The science is wrong: People like to cite “the overwhelming scientific evidence” that sexual orientation is biological in nature. But show me a study that claims to have proven this, and I will show you a flawed research design. Let’s take one example: In 2000, a team of researchers at UC Berkeley conducted a study in which they found that lesbians were more likely than heterosexual women to have a “masculine” hand structure. Presumably, most men have a longer ring finger than index finger, whereas most women have the opposite (or they have index and ring fingers of the same length). Lesbians, according to this study, are more likely than straight women to have what we might call “male-pattern hands.” The researchers concluded that this finding supports their theory that lesbianism might be caused by a “fetal androgyn wash” in the womb—that is, when female fetuses are exposed to greater levels of a masculinizing hormone, it shows up later in the form of female masculinity: male-pattern hands and… attraction to women. But this study makes the same error that countless others have made: it does not properly distinguish between gender (whether one is masculine or feminine) and sexual orientation (heterosexuality or homosexuality). Simply put, the fact that a woman is “masculine” (itself a social construction) or has been introduced to greater levels of a male hormone need not have anything to do with whether she is attracted to women. We would only assume this if we had already accepted the heteronormative premise that masculine people (or men) are naturally attracted to femaleness and that normal (i.e., feminine) women are naturally attracted to men. Herein lies the bias. Many “masculine” women who are heterosexual (have you been to the rural South?) would like us to know that their gender does not line up with their sexual desire in any predictable way. And many very feminine lesbians would like us to know this too. The bottom line is that ideas about sexual desire are so bound up with misconceptions about gender and with the presumption that heterosexuality is nature’s default, that science has yet to approach this subject in an objective way. For a comprehensive examination of the flaws in the most widely cited research on sexual orientation, see Rebecca Jordan-Young’s brilliant book Brain Storm: The Flaws in the Science of Sex Differences (Harvard University Press, 2011).

3. The science is wrong: An even greater problem with the science of sexual orientation is that it seeks to find the genetic causes of gayness, as if we all agree about what gayness is. To say that “being gay” is genetic is to engage in science that hinges on a very historically recent and specifically European-American understanding of what being gay means. In Ancient Greece, sex between elite men and adolescent boys was a common and normative cultural practice. According to historians Michel Foucault and Jonathan Ned Katz, these relationships were considered the most praise-worthy, substantive and Godly forms of love (whereas sex between a man and a woman was, for all intents and purposes, sex between a man and his slave). If men having frequent and sincere sex with one another is what we mean by “gay,” then do we really believe that something so fundamentally different was happening in the Ancient Athenian gene pool? Did some evolutionary occurrence enable Plato’s ancestors to get rid of all of those heterosexual genes? And what about native cultures in which all boys engage in homosexual rites of passage? Do we imagine that we could identify some genetic evidence of propensity to ingest sperm as part of a cultural initiation into manhood? What about all of the cultures around the globe in which male homosexual sex does not signal gayness except for under certain specific circumstances (e.g., you are only gay if you are the receptive sexual partner, or if you are feminine)? And while I am on this subject, what about the fact the United States is precisely one of those cultures? When young college women lick each other’s boobs at frat parties, or when young college men stick their fingers in each other’s butts while being hazed by their frat brothers, we don’t call this gay—we call this “girls gone wild” or “hazing.” My point here is that a lot of people engage in homosexual behavior, but somehow we talk about the genetic origins of homosexuality as if we are clear about who is gay and who is not, and as if it’s also clear that “gay genes” are possessed only by people who are culturally and politically gay (you know, the people who are seriously gay). This is a bit arbitrary, don’t you think?

Just 150 years ago, scientists went searching for the physiological evidence that women were hysterical. Hysteria, by Victorian medical definition, meant that a woman’s uterus had become dislodged from its proper location and was floating around her body causing all sorts of trouble—like feminism, and other matters of grave concern. And guess what, they found the evidence, and they published books and articles to prove it. They also looked for and found the evidence that all people of African and Asian ancestry were intellectually and morally inferior to people of European Ancestry. Many books were published dedicated to establishing these obviously absurd and violent beliefs as legitimate and indisputable scientific facts. Similarly, the science of sexual orientation has a long and disturbing history. In the late 1800s and early 1900s, it was believed that homosexuals had beady eyes, particularly angular facial structures, and “bad blood.” Today, we apparently have gender variant fingers and gay brains.

Is it possible that people who identify themselves as “gay” in the United States (again, keep in mind that “gay” is a culturally and historically specific concept), share some common physiology? Perhaps. But even if this is so, do we really know why? Indeed, we may find (as Simon LeVay did) that men who identify as gay share a certain trait—a larger VIP SCN nucleus of the hypothalamus, for instance. But how do we know that this “enlargement” is a symptom or cause of their homosexuality, and not, say, a symptom or cause of their general propensity for bravery, creativity, or rebellion? In a homophobic culture, you need some bravery (and other awesome traits) to be queer. Perhaps these personality traits are what are actually being observed under the microscope.

And, of course, there is the time-eternal question: why aren’t scientists looking for the genetic causes of heterosexuality? Or masturbation? Or interest in oral sex? The reason is that none of these sex acts currently violate social norms, at least not strongly enough to be perceived as sexual aberrations. But this was not always true. In the 19th century, scientists were interested in the biological origins of the “masturbation perversion.” They were interested because they believed it was pathological, and because they wanted to know whether it could be repaired.

At the end of the day, what we can count on is that the science of sexual orientation will produce data that simply mirror the most crass and sexist gender binarisms circulating in the popular imagination. This research will report that women are innately more sexually fluid than men, capable of being turned-on by almost anything and everything (hmmm…. other than in Lisa Diamond’s research, where have I seen that idea before? Ah yes, heterosexual pornography.) It will report that men are sexually rigid, their desires impermeable. It will tell us that straight men simply cannot be aroused by men and that gay men are virtually hardwired to be repulsed by the thought of sex with women. Regardless of what else we might say about the soundness of these studies, what is evident to me is that they have been used to authorize many a straight man’s homophobia, and many a gay man’s misogyny.

4. Just because you have had homosexual or heterosexual feelings for as long as you can remember, does not mean you were born a homosexual or heterosexual. There are many things I have felt or done for as long as I can remember. I have always liked to argue. I have always loved drawing feet and shoes. I have always craved cheddar cheese. I have always felt a strong connection with happy, trashy pop music. These have been aspects of myself for as long as I can remember, and each represents a very strong impulse in me. But was I born with a desire to eat cheddar cheese or make drawings of feet? Are these desires that can be identified somewhere in my body, like on one of my genes? It would be hard to make these claims, because I could have been born and raised in China, let’s say, where cheddar cheese is basically non-existent and would not have been part of my life. And while I may have been born with some general artistic potential, surely our genetic material is not so specific as to determine that I would love to draw platform shoes. The point here is that what we desire in childhood is far more complex and multifaceted than the biological sciences can account for, and this goes for our sexual desires as well. Some basic raw material is in place (like a general potential for creativity), but the details—well, those are ours to discover.

5. Secretly, you already know that people’s sexual desires are shaped by their social and cultural context. Lots of adults worry that if we allow little boys to wear princess dresses and paint their nails with polish, they might later be more inclined to be gay. Even some liberal parents (including gay and lesbian parents) worry that if they introduce their child to “too much” in the way of queer material, this could be a way of “pushing” homosexuality on them. Similarly, many people worry that if young women are introduced to feminism in college, and if they become too angry or independent, they may just decide to be lesbians. But if we all really believed that sexual orientation was congenital—or present at birth—then no one would ever worry that social influences could have an effect on our sexual orientation. But I think that in reality, we all know that sexual desire is deeply subject to social, cultural, and historical forces. We know that if the world today were a different place, a place where homosexuality was culturally normative (like, say, Ancient Greece), we would see far more people embracing their homosexual desires. And if this were the case, it would have nothing to do with genetics.

The concept of “sexual orientation” is itself less than 150 years old, and almost equally recent is the notion that people should partner based on romantic attraction. Most of what feels so natural and unchangeable about our desires—including the bodies and personalities we are attracted to—is conditioned by our respective cultures. The majority of straight American men, for instance, will tell you that they have a strong, visceral aversion to women with bushy armpit hair. But this aversion, no matter how deep it may now run in men’s psyches and no matter how nonnegotiable it may feel, is hardly genetic. Up until the last century, the entire world’s female population had armpit hair, and somehow, heterosexual sex survived.

People like to use the failure of “gay conversion” therapies as evidence that homosexuality is innate. First of all, these conversions do not always fail; if you make someone feel disgusted enough by their desires, you can change their desires. Call it a tragedy of repression, or call it a religious awakening—regardless, the point is that we can and do change. For instance, in high school and early in college, my sexual desires were deeply bound up with sexism. I wanted to be a hot girl, and I wanted powerful men to desire me. I was as authentically heterosexual as any woman I knew. But later, several years into my exploration of feminist politics, what I once found desirable (heterosexuality and sexism) became utterly unappealing. I became critical of homophobia and sexism in ways that allowed these forces far less power to determine the shape of my desires. If this had not happened, no doubt I’d be married to a man. And if he wasn’t a complete asshole, I’d probably be happy enough. But instead, I was drawn to queerness for various political and emotional reasons, and from my vantage point today, I believe it to be one of the best desires I ever cultivated. [Does this mean that your daughter may decide to be a lesbian if she takes some women’s studies courses? Yes. Whatcha gonna do now?!]

Perhaps most importantly, the fact that we might cultivate or “choose” something doesn’t mean that it is a trivial, temporary, or less a vital part of who we are. For instance, is religion a choice? Certainly it is if we define “choice” as anything that isn’t an immutable part of our physiology. But many religious people would feel profoundly misunderstood and offended if I suggested that their religious beliefs were a phase, an experiment, or a less significant part of who they are then, say, their hair color. Choices are complex. Choices run deep. And yes, choices are both constrained and fluid–just like our bodies.

Post script: Ultimately, the terms set forward in the public debate about this subject–biology versus “choice”–are quite limited, mainly because “choice” is not the most useful term for describing all of the possibilities that sit apart from biology. Several social, cultural, and structural factors can shape our embodied desires and erotic possibilities. The fact that these factors are not physiological in origin does not mean that they aren’t coercive or subjectifying, resulting in a real or perceived condition of fixity or “no choice.” We know that social factors also become embodied over time. And yet, I remain somewhat committed to the concept of “choice”–or something like it–to describe the possibility of a critical and reflexive relationship to our sexual desires. Personally, the idea that I don’t have control over who or what I desire is a big turn-off to me, so I am constantly pushing back on what feel like the limits of my own desires. For instance, I went through a period of pushing myself to date femmes because I had some good reasons for being suspicious about why I had ruled them out from my dating pool. When it felt like I could never be nonmonogamous, I made it a goal to at least try. Then when I realized I only really felt attracted to alcoholic rebels, I nipped that in the bud too. Just when I thought I’d never think hairy men were hot, I allowed myself to face my attraction to Javier Bardem. When my tastes and proclivities start to feel like they are solidifying, I get suspicious and disappointed. So, in the interests of full disclosure, I am writing from the perspective of someone who finds sexual fixity pretty uninteresting, and who believes that there are really good feminist and queer reasons to take regular, critical inventory of the parts of our sexuality that we believe we cannot or will not change.

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

#1. To: no gnu taxes (#0) (Edited)

"Being a faggot is a choice"

Here's the bottom line: It makes no difference.

It makes no difference if it's a choice, if it's genetic, cultural, environmental or if you were sexually abused as a child. If you get stuck arguing the origins of homosexuality, you've lost the argument.

What makes a difference is how you behave. Alcoholics have long argued about the origins of alcoholism. "It's in my genes." "My uncle was an alcoholic." "Everyone I knew drank." "I'm Irish."

Screw all that. Stop drinking and start acting like the rest of society. You may not have a choice about who you are, but you certainly have a choice how you behave.

There's no reason whatsoever for homosexuals to behave the way they do -- a different sex partner every week, hanging out at restrooms, parks and rest stops looking for sex, sex with strangers, drug use, orgies, unprotected sex, etc. That's not genetic.

And there is certainly no need to tell anyone about your sexual peccadillos. I don't want to hear it from straight people and I don't want to hear it from you.

One last thing. Not that long ago your behavior was officially considered a perversion. Some people may not have gotten the news about the reclassification. So STFU about it and get out of my face.

misterwhite  posted on  2018-02-12   12:21:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: no gnu taxes, misterwhite (#0)

Title: Being a faggot is a choice

There has always been a problem with this argument.

If a homosexual can choose to be straight, then the obverse must also be true: heterosexuals can also choose a sodomy lifestyle and stick with it for a lifetime. This is, after all, what is expected if homosexuals do choose to live straight lives.

So you think you could just as easily choose to be a homosexual as a heterosexual? When exactly did you choose to be a heterosexual instead of choosing to be a homo?

This argument only works with people who already believe it. Not so different from the arguments the libs make to defend Teh Gays. They're all fundamentally bad arguments.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-02-12   12:35:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: no gnu taxes (#0)

ESAD/FOAD = If you do, you will.

Play self-destructive Nature-Abominating games, win self-destructive Nature- Abominating prizes.

VxH  posted on  2018-02-12   12:39:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: misterwhite (#1)

Screw all that. Stop drinking and start acting like the rest of society. You may not have a choice about who you are, but you certainly have a choice how you behave.

Absolutely true! It ain't easy,though. Very few people are successful the first few times they try to quit addictions,and there can be no question about sex being addictive. Have you EVER heard anybody say "I tried it once and didn't like it,so I just gave up."?

HOWEVER,what you are doing is demand people become celibate in order to please YOU,or society in general,not to please or improve themselves.

Granted,there are a small number of celibate by choice people in the world,but I'd be willing to bet that not a single one of them every had much of a sex drive to begin with.

In short,it's asking too much. Especially given that it's none of your,mine,or anyone else's business if they have sex or not,and none of us have the right to tell them to not have sex.

I think a lot of you people would be spending your time more wisely trying to figure out how to have a little sex yourselves,than waste it all trying to keep someone else from having it.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2018-02-12   12:40:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: no gnu taxes (#0) (Edited)

Some do seem to be "born that way". Most choose, at some point.

So what? It's no skin off my nose who people choose to snog with.

I've said before and I will repeat my own view of the whole subject: I don't care what people do, as long as they don't do it in the streets and disturb the horses. (And cars ain't horses - there are no more horses.)

Is homosex a choice? Sure. It's not illegal, and I don't hate the people who choose it. It's none of my business, and I just don't care. Why should I? Live and let live.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-02-12   12:49:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Tooconservative (#2)

heterosexuals can also choose a sodomy lifestyle and stick with it for a lifetime.

Yes they could. That is their choice.

What's your point?

So you think you could just as easily choose to be a homosexual as a heterosexual? When exactly did you choose to be a heterosexual instead of choosing to be a homo?

People have sex with animals. People have sex in all weird kinds of ways. First, I chose to be heterosexual by nature. I chose to be a normal person because I know the difference between right and perversion.

Basic anatomy doesn't suggest faggot sex is normal.

no gnu taxes  posted on  2018-02-12   12:51:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: sneakypete (#4)

I think a lot of you people would be spending your time more wisely trying to figure out how to have a little sex yourselves,than waste it all trying to keep someone else from having it.

Nah, you don't really "think" much at all. Otherwise you and the turd burglar brigade would observe the sociobiological FACTS regarding what, thanks to Natural Selection, SEX really is.

XX + XX = FAIL

XY + XY = FAIL

XX + XY = Human


VxH  posted on  2018-02-12   12:52:27 ET  (2 images) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: no gnu taxes (#6) (Edited)

Basic anatomy doesn't suggest faggot sex is normal.

Ok. But why do you CARE? Really. What difference does it make to you what people do with their pee-pees? This is the part I just don't get: all of the ANGER at the people do deviant things. Who cares? WHY do they care? I don't care. It's not interesting. There are people who love chopped liver and onions. I don't. Ick. It doesn't make me angry at the people who do.

Why does it MATTER?

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-02-12   12:54:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Vicomte13 (#8)

Basic anatomy doesn't suggest faggot sex is normal.

Ok. But why do you CARE? Really.

I wouldn't if they limited it to their bedrooms.

no gnu taxes  posted on  2018-02-12   12:57:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Tooconservative (#2)

you think you could just as easily choose to be a homosexual as a heterosexual?

This is why the argument is not about the origin of homosexuality (or alcoholism or pedophilia or any other behavior). The argument should be about behavioral choices.

The argument that "I was born this way so this is how I'm going to behave" is a complete non-starter with me. Society sets the norms -- you can choose to fit in or not.

misterwhite  posted on  2018-02-12   13:00:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Vicomte13 (#8)

This is the part I just don't get: all of the ANGER at the people do deviant things. Who cares? WHY do they care?

Envy.

Jameson  posted on  2018-02-12   13:02:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Vicomte13 (#8)

Basic anatomy doesn't suggest faggot sex is normal.

Ok. But why do you CARE? Really. What difference does it make to you what people do with their pee-pees? This is the part I just don't get: all of the ANGER at the people do deviant things. Who cares? WHY do they care? I don't care. It's not interesting. There are people who love chopped liver and onions. I don't. Ick. It doesn't make me angry at the people who do.

Why does it MATTER?

Ok. But why do you CARE?

I wouldn't if they kept it in their own bedrooms.

no gnu taxes  posted on  2018-02-12   13:07:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: no gnu taxes (#12)

I wouldn't if they kept it in their own bedrooms.

Fair enough. I don't think it should be the basis of political power either.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-02-12   13:16:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Jameson (#11)

Envy.

Hah! That's a thought.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-02-12   13:17:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: no gnu taxes, hondo68, A K A Stone, Pinguinite (#6) (Edited)

First, I chose to be heterosexual by nature. I chose to be a normal person because I know the difference between right and perversion.

I don't believe you. I think you sexually imprinted on heterosexual patterns (as the vast majority do) and that everything you're saying is just a justification for you find "natural".

So do you actually practice only vaginal sex? Or do you freely commit sodomy with a female (oral and anal) and still consider that to be "normal"?

[I'll probably regret letting hondo know about it but it seems we can post MP4 video clips from Imgur here at LF. ... Oopsie, it seems we can post them and see them in Previews but they get filtered out when we actually Post.]

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-02-12   13:20:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Vicomte13 (#14)

The problem with faggots is they insist on being called normal. That and the special rights they want like insisting everyone pretend they're actually married.

It's a sign of the end times when they call good bad and bad good. Faggots are always look at me I'm a faggots.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-02-12   13:22:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Jameson (#11)

Didn't you say you were a fag?

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-02-12   13:24:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: no gnu taxes (#6)

Yes they could. That is their choice.

BTW, there is one large group of very prominent people in the sodomy community who do choose to practice sodomy: a majority of the gay porn performers are gay for pay, many of them married with kids.

Are they "choosing"? If so, what? Making money? Fulfilling deepseated same-sex desires?

The whole topic gets rather exhausting.

Apparently, people when considered in large enough numbers are just incomprehensible pervs.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-02-12   13:25:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Tooconservative (#15)

I don't believe you. I think you sexually imprinted on heterosexual patterns (as the vast majority do) and that everything you're saying is just a justification for you find "natural".

psychobabble

What I do or don't do with my female wife is none of your damned business.

no gnu taxes  posted on  2018-02-12   13:26:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Vicomte13 (#13)

Fair enough. I don't think it should be the basis of political power either.

It only has political power to the extent that some people want to forbid it. Their disapproval throws the gasoline on that particular fire.

Roy Moore, for instance.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-02-12   13:27:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: A K A Stone (#17)

Didn't you say you were a fag?

Um, no, but lots wonder about you and FireIsland's closets.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2018-02-12   13:28:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: no gnu taxes, Vicomte13 (#19)

What I do or don't do with my female wife is none of your damned business.

I take that as an admission that you practice sodomy with your wife.

And you have even less excuse than a homo does to practice oral or anal sodomy when you have that vaginal alternative.

If God hates sodomy, won't He hate men who use their wives for sodomy even more than He hates same-sex sodomites? After all, a hetero-sodomite like yourself is choosing sodomy when he has a legitimate natural alternative with sanctioned vaginal sex with his wife.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-02-12   13:30:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Tooconservative (#22) (Edited)

I take that as an admission that you practice sodomy with your wife.

You're just pinging me here, right?

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-02-12   13:33:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: no gnu taxes (#9) (Edited)

I wouldn't if they limited it to their bedrooms.

But they don't. 

And now they demand that everybody submit to, and parrot, their opinion that their behavior is healthy and normal -- when the CDC clearly documents the due penalties for their perversions.

They're also fond of redistributing other people's reproductive resources to proliferate their abomination of nature....

https://www.google.com/search? q=homosexuals+infertility+treatments

...behind the facade of treating their "infertility". That is obviously what a BIG part of Obamacare was really about, along with forcing the rest of us to pay for the EXPENSIVE treatment of their self-inflicted preexisting conditions.

VxH  posted on  2018-02-12   13:37:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: A K A Stone (#17)

Didn't you say you were a fag?

No, sorry Stone.... you're just going to have to keep looking for your special someone.

Good luck!

Jameson  posted on  2018-02-12   13:40:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Tooconservative (#22)

I take that as an admission that you practice sodomy with your wife.

What a dumbass remark.

What I said was that I am not going to discuss what goes on in my bedroom. That is something i wish faggots would practice.

no gnu taxes  posted on  2018-02-12   13:41:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: no gnu taxes (#26)

That is something i wish faggots would practice.

So I guess your gay friends discuss their bedroom activities with you, right?

Jameson  posted on  2018-02-12   13:44:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Jameson (#27)

I don't discuss sexual activities with my friends. That is a private matter and always should be. Yeah, i was in college and heard the exchange of stories, but I choose not to live in that world anymore.

no gnu taxes  posted on  2018-02-12   13:49:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: no gnu taxes (#28)

Just wondered -

Jameson  posted on  2018-02-12   13:52:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Tooconservative (#20)

It only has political power to the extent that some people want to forbid it. Their disapproval throws the gasoline on that particular fire.

They more than WANT to forbid it. Historically, the laws punished homosexual sodomy, practiced in the privacy of one's own home, as a life- destroying felony.

This was over the top. It did not go away on its own (as it should have, had people been reasonable). It required the mobilization of massive political power after a Supreme Court decision to force the issue and keep it dead.

A tremendous amount of political power has been expended to try to keep homosexual behavior between consenting adults criminalized, and that has, in turn, caused a massive mobilization of political power to strike that down.

Once such power is mobilized, it does not simply dissipate of its own accord once the immediate objective is achieved. It remains cohesive and seeks new battles.

Which is why it is wisest to not fight pointless battles in the first place. The British fought over their penny tax on principle - the principle of Parliamentary supremacy and not yielding to "the mob". And they provoked a full-on revolution and lost an empire on principle.

This was folly. Folly should be avoided.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-02-12   14:09:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: no gnu taxes (#0)

I would check ouT

The school lunch program

I'm only halfway safe

WenT To caTholic grade school

Love
boris

If you ... don't use exclamation points --- you should't be typeing ! Commas - semicolons - question marks are for girlie boys !

BorisY  posted on  2018-02-12   15:05:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Vicomte13 (#8)

all of the ANGER at the people do deviant things. Who cares? WHY do they care?

You're misstating what's going on. They're not only doing deviant things; they want to normalize these deviant things. They want their behavior to be legal and acceptable.

Now in a society consisting of responsible adults only, this might be possible. As you say, who cares?

But in a society also containing impressionable children, giving the green light to irresponsible and dangerous behavior sends the wrong message.

misterwhite  posted on  2018-02-12   16:21:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Tooconservative (#22)

I take that as an admission that you practice sodomy with your wife.

No such thing.

The specific sin of Genesis 19 was forcible anal rape of a man by another man. This passage does not concern marital relations. Anal sex between a husband and wife, within the confines of marriage, in the spirit of mutual consent, cannot be definitively categorized as a sin.

misterwhite  posted on  2018-02-12   16:29:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: misterwhite, Vicomte13 (#33) (Edited)

The specific sin of Genesis 19 was forcible anal rape of a man by another man.

How do you know that angels have anuses that can be raped? Do you think that angels, a separate and more purely spiritual creation than mankind, have anuses and genitals and so on? Perhaps they are "ill-equipped" for sex.

Please explain.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-02-12   17:13:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Tooconservative, Fred Mertz, Log Jamin Republicans, no gnu taxes, tater, FireIsland (#15) (Edited)

Anyone who voted for Bush, McCain, Romney, and Trump has stepped out of the closet and made their gender reassignment choice clear... Log Cabin Republican!

hondo68  posted on  2018-02-12   17:13:48 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: hondo68, buckeroo (#35)

I see Stain finally coming out and holding hands with his Lady Lindsey, still hoping his hero will make an honest woman of him. But I thought Howdy Doody retired decades ago, yet there he is.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-02-12   17:23:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: misterwhite (#32)

You're misstating what's going on. They're not only doing deviant things; they want to normalize these deviant things.

They do, yes. And that's politics. The reason they are so militant is because the laws were brutally repressive in the day when gays were not open about it. Private sex got convictions and felony prison sentences. When people are brutalized, they react if they can. If their reaction causes an easy rollback of the oppressive policy, that can be the end of it. And that's what happens in other countries regarding many things.

But in America, the rules are the result of a relentless and endless low- level political civil war in which policy changes are treated as a zero-sum game. Sodomy was not decriminalized because "who cares?" the way that it was in many other places. Here, it became the object of a political crusade between factions. The two sides fought it out, and the side with the greater political power triumphed. Both sides are filled with hate towards the other, and when people hate other people, they don't simply win - after the victory they rub the noses of the defeated in their defeat. That's the American way.

The gays fought an absolutely brutal political battle. Unable to win directly, they won through the courts, and once the courts, the way the abortionists did. Once the law was changed by the courts, the attitudes of the people shifted - Americans are legalists - what is LEGAL is MORAL in the American mind, and if one takes the stand that that which is legal is nevertheless IMMORAL, one encounters strong political forces designed to beat back that view.

Trouble is, we Americans learned how to politically fight for "rights" in the context of the brutal repression and ultimate liberation of slaves and segregated blacks. Neither side gave any quarter, and the battle was one through blunt instruments (warfare) and brute political (and armed) force (National Guard called out to drive governors out of doorways and escort minority students into schools whose leaders did not want desegregation, but who were forced to do it at the physical gunpoint.

That is the way politics are played in America: with force.

When sodomy was illegal, some states made a point of BRUTALLY enforcing the law. The Supreme Court BRUTALLY stripped the rights from the states, and the gay activists BRUTALLY went straight into the most conservative states to make DAMNED sure that those big-bellied sherriffs were forced to submit, to stand aside, so that they would SEE and FEEL their defeat at the hands of superior power.

That's how Americans play with each other, and talk to each other. Look at the degree of vile nastiness that various posters here unleash on each other.

Americans justify all of that brutality in their own minds through appeals to their respective gods, who are all absolutists.

So yes, the gays have driven - successfully - to normalize homosexual behavior, just as the blacks and their allies drove -successfully - to normalize racial equality and to break the power of the segregationists.

If Americans were not so utterly intolerant and brutal in their exercise of power over one another, things not need be as bad as they are, but it is the American way of politics.

For my part, I nevertheless refuse to acknowledge that the forced adherence to laws about who can (consentingly) touch whom, and how. I think that the whole American system ITSELF stinks to high heaven, and that the roots of all of the brutality ultimately go back to the black/white racial issue.

Americans are cussed, on all sides, and so everything has to be a zero-sum game.

I don't accept that logic. I don't care who screws whom, or how. I do understand the DEGREE of aggressiveness of the gays in asserting their rights, now that it is a war - they are angry at past oppression. I also understand the reason for the past oppression: aggressive Christian fanaticism.

I am not a Christian fanatic. I don't like the Taliban, be they Christian or Muslim. So I don't get the hellbent nature of the desire to punish private behavior.

But what I get, or don't get, isn't really relevant. I don't hate the gays. Nor do I particularly love the gays. If people want to identify themselves by the way they procure their orgasms, I think it's all rather sleazy and gets into things I don't want to know. But it's in everybody's face, and like every other American I am forced, against my will, to have a specific opinion on the matter.

My opinion is that of the Supreme Court: Homosexual activity is a constitutional right, and whoever decides to try to beat down that right is an enemy of freedom who has to be broken. Therefore, just like blacks, homosexuals have the right to be served in the stream of commerce, and nobody has the right to either exclude blacks from his store, or refuse to provide goods and services to homosexuals - up to the point where the court has recently - correctly - drawn the line. When it comes to artistic expression, people cannot be forced to express themselves in favor of something they oppose.

In a similar vein, churches cannot be forced to marry gays or accept them as clergy.

It's sort of like the Civil War. It would have been so much better if "Christians" had acted like it and not insisted on slavery, and not, then, insisted on dominating slaves and fighting over it. But they did, so we all have to live with the aftermath.

I see the fanatics screaming "faggot" and I still wonder WHY DO YOU CARE? And I see the gays pressing their current political advantage but being rightly blocked by the Supreme Court at the place they should be blocked.

So as far as I can see the gays have gotten their "rights", and that's that. And I'm still not interested what they do with their pee-pees.

Not likely to change my mind about any of these things. I don't like the Taliban of any cause.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-02-12   17:24:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: hondo68 (#35)

Anyone who voted for McCain, Romney, and Trump has stepped out of the closet and made their gender reassignment choice clear... Log Cabin Republican!

I voted for McCain, Romney and Trump, and I'm not a Republican. Nor am I gay. So you probably ought to rethink that theory.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-02-12   17:25:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Tooconservative (#34)

How do you know that angels have anuses that can be raped? Do you think that angels, a separate and more purely spiritual creation than mankind, have anuses and genitals and so on? Perhaps they are "ill-equipped" for sex.

Please explain.

Angels had children with human women, creating the Nephilim (and their descendants, the Basques) so apparently they have the equipment...at least some of them.

At Sodom the angels were desired, for rape, by the townsmen. Whether they could have consummated the act or not is not known.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-02-12   17:27:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Vicomte13 (#37)

Spoken like a Catholic faggot lover. Well that is what your liberal whiny ass sounded like.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-02-12   17:32:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



      .
      .
      .

Comments (41 - 212) not displayed.

TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Mail]  [Sign-in]  [Setup]  [Help]  [Register] 

Please report web page problems, questions and comments to webmaster@libertysflame.com