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Creationism/Evolution
See other Creationism/Evolution Articles

Title: Creation vs Evolution: The Bombardier Beetle Challenge
Source: [None]
URL Source: https://crev.info/2018/02/creation- ... n-bombardier-beetle-challenge/
Published: Feb 9, 2018
Author: David F. Coppedge
Post Date: 2018-02-09 14:59:08 by A K A Stone
Keywords: None
Views: 11167
Comments: 128

Bombardier beetles made the news again this week. Creation scientists have long used them to challenge evolutionary theory. Can the Darwinians fight back?

Watch a funny video on National Geographic

of a barfing toad. The toad made the mistake of sneaking up on a bombardier beetle and snatching it with its tongue before the beetle could fire its weapons. It’s not hard to imagine what happened inside the toad’s stomach, because a few minutes later, the toad gags and vomits out the beetle, practically turning its stomach inside out to get rid of the pest which, though sticky with gastric juices, is none the worse for wear and crawls away.

The amazing bombardier beetle is the “dinner date from hell,” the article quips. New Scientist says these beetles can survive for almost two hours before being spit out by any predator unlucky enough to gulp them down. Japanese scientists proved it was the bug’s cannons that forced the vomit response, because beetles that had already fired their weapons were not regurgitated.

Creationists have long used the bombardier beetle as a challenge to evolution since the days of Duane Gish and Robert Kofahl in the 1960s and 1970s. Jobe Martin talked about them in his films, Incredible Creatures that Defy Evolution. How could such a system evolve by a Darwinian process? Unless the entire mechanism were in place, the bug would blow itself to bits. The secular articles admit that it’s a remarkable “shock and awe” defense mechanism. National Geographic explains,

Bombardier beetles aren’t especially rare; more than 500 species live on every continent except Antarctica, and all of them create a toxic brew of chemicals in a special chamber at the bottom of their abdomen.

The molecules are mixed together at the last minute and react to form hydrogen peroxide and another class of compounds called benzoquinones, along with huge amounts of heat and pressure. Both chemicals are irritants and can damage skin and lungs.

Thanks to the shape of the chamber, this boiling foul mixture is ejected with a huge force.

Luc Bussiere at The Conversation is similarly intrigued by these bugs. He includes slow-motion video of the beetle firing its weapons. You can see that the eruption comes out well-aimed and in spurts. The explosion actually creates smoke. Could this evolve?

In Spacecraft Earth, Dr Henry Richter describes the creation challenge presented by the bombardier beetle, which he calls one of his favorite examples of creatures that defy evolution.

This amazing insect uses two separate chambers in its abdomen, one for the explosive (hydrogen peroxide) and one for the detonator (hydroquinone). These chemicals must be kept separate and in a deactivated state. When they are mixed in the combustion chamber, they must be activated at just the right time, in the right amounts, and in the right way, or else the bug will be a victim of its own weapon, unable to reproduce. How could such a system evolve? Everything had to work right from the beginning, or no offspring would see the light of day to pass along the lucky discovery.

He quotes Lyell Rader’s 1998 book for additional details:

Bombardier beetle (Wikimedia Commons)

All of these systems have to be in flawless working conditions for the beetle to survive. The cannons without the explosives would be meaningless. One chemical without the other would not explode. Both chemicals, without the inhibitor, would blow the beetle to bits. Without the anti-inhibitor, the beetle would be unable to trigger the explosion at all. Without the storage chambers, it wouldn’t have the chemicals on hand when needed. Without strongly reinforced, heat-proof combustion tubes and cannons, the heat generated by the explosion would cook the beetle.

But most amazing of all is the hair trigger communications system. The beetle identifies a potential enemy; waits until the enemy gets its mouth open; pulls the anti-inhibitor like a firing pin on a rifle; aims its cannons; and sends a scalding blast of noxious gas from its tail into the mouth of the aggressor, curbing its appetite for any more beetles. These five functions must be perfectly timed to a fraction of a second.

Richter adds more detail illustrating the irreducible complexity of this creature:

There’s more to this story. High speed cameras have shown that the beetle fires a rapid series of shots rather than one explosive burst. This gives the bug finer control over the explosion, preventing the recoil that would send it flying. The beetle can also aim its heat weapon precisely over a wide range of angles. All these controls require additional ‘brain software’ for their use.

It’s no wonder, Richter says (pp 79-80), that creationists have enjoyed pointing to the bombardier beetle as a challenge to evolution. (As for the evolutionist quibble that the chemicals are not explosive, see Gish’s response quoted here.)

The Darwinian Response

Evolutionists must certainly be aware that creationists have long used the bombardier beetle as evidence against evolution. Let’s look in the three pro- evolution articles for their comeback arguments:

National Geographic: “bombardier beetle species may have evolved the ability to survive toads’ digestive system…” New Scientist: “In another experiment, the researchers found bombardier beetles are more likely to survive after 20 minutes in a toad stomach than 14 other beetle species. This suggests they have evolved a tolerance for toad digestive juices.” The Conversation: “The diverse getaway tactics of animals are a testament to the fascinating creativity of evolution…. we should be mindful that evolutionary innovation can produce remarkable adaptations.“

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 59.

#1. To: A K A Stone (#0)

The Conversation:

“The diverse getaway tactics of animals are a testament to the fascinating creativity of evolution…. we should be mindful that evolutionary innovation can produce remarkable adaptations.“

What's fascinating is Bogus Science's PTB claims that their 100% unproven theory of "Evolution" constitutes actual "science."

We should be mindful that "Adaptation" is a whole different ballgame. Yet its doesn't stop National Geographic from performing semantic-contortionism.

DNA is incapable of mutating other than regressively or DE-volving. That's just Genetics 101.

Liberator  posted on  2018-02-09   15:18:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Liberator, A K A Stone (#1)

DNA is incapable of mutating other than regressively or DE-volving. That's just Genetics 101.

It is more accurate to say that there is no known mechanism for DNA to extend it's instruction set.

And "no known mechanism" does not equate to one not existing, and is not sufficient to conclude that it cannot do so. To support a claim that DNA is "incapable" of mutating into more complex structures, one must prove a negative -- that it "can't" do something -- and that is very hard to do.

As far as creationism goes, there is also "no known mechanism" for the divine creation of new life. To explain the existence of life on earth, Creationists say "God created it" while Evolutionists say "Evolution created it". Yet neither side can fully explain the mechanism by which life came to be.

Though I suppose Creationists are not exactly looking to explain how God made it happen.

Pinguinite  posted on  2018-02-10   1:49:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Pinguinite (#9)

Though I suppose Creationists are not exactly looking to explain how God made it happen.

We have a plausible and compelling theory to explain it.

He did it through the evolution. He made man from the clay ie from the ocean mud, and out of it He shaped plants, animals and man in a very long process.

In the beginning He created space, visible and invisible world, gave it physical laws and started the time.

A Pole  posted on  2018-02-10   6:15:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: A Pole, redleghunter (#11)

He [God] did it [created life] through the evolution.

He made man from the clay ie from the ocean mud, and out of it He shaped plants, animals and man in a very long process.

Are you serious??

From which part of Genesis are you quoting?

In the beginning He created space, visible and invisible world, gave it physical laws and started the time.

Now THAT can be found ostensibly in Genesis.

Liberator  posted on  2018-02-10   14:41:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: Liberator, A K A Stone, Vicomte13 (#42)

"He made man from the clay ie from the ocean mud, and out of it He shaped plants, animals and man in a very long process."

Are you serious??

From which part of Genesis are you quoting?

You take mystical and subtle text intended for the small elite (yes, there was no printing press and books when the Pentateuch was written were EXTREMELY rare) crudely and literally, like a Cargo cult member who found a book on quantum physics

OK, MR Literalist, explain me one thing, how Noe managed to fit countless thousand species of animals into his Ark, and how did he manage to get all those species from all continents? He must have had countless biologists all over the world collaborating with him, did he?

A Pole  posted on  2018-02-10   16:09:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: A Pole, redleghunter (#54)

OK, MR Literalist, explain me one thing, how Noe managed to fit countless thousand species of animals into his Ark, and how did he manage to get all those species from all continents? He must have had countless biologists all over the world collaborating with him, did he?

Wow you really don't believe the Bible. Next thing you are going to tell us is there was no serpent and no garden of Eden. Is that what you believe?

Now to your question.

1. Who is to say that there were animal kinds that weren't near where the ark was consructed.

2. Secondly. Do you think there were poodles, German shepherds, cockerspaniels, wolves and every creature like that on the ark? There wouldn't need to be. There is the dog kind and they are responsible for all the variable types of dogs we have today. Same with other creatures such as rabits, squirrles etc. I'm sure they would have used younger creatures instead of a full grown giraffe.

3. Do you know how big the ark was?

Mr Pole there is a life sized replica of Noah's ark in Kentucky. I haven't seen it yet. But I will some day. You should go see it. It might help your faith.

I reallyl want your answer on the serpent and the garden of Eden.

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-02-10   16:28:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: A K A Stone (#55)

Wow you really don't believe the Bible. Next thing you are going to tell us is there was no serpent and no garden of Eden. Is that what you believe?

The actual Church of Christ as really founded by Christ Himself in a certain concrete place and time, was not based on the Bible. New Testament was written by the members of the Church much later.

The serpent and garden of Eden were real, but the Serpent was not a snake, but Satan, Garden of Eden was not a plain garden but a world before the fall.

A Pole  posted on  2018-02-10   17:02:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 59.

#60. To: A Pole (#59)

The serpent and garden of Eden were real,

You think Noah's ark is made up. Why not the Garden of Eden?

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-02-10 17:08:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: A Pole (#59)

The actual Church of Christ as really founded by Christ Himself in a certain concrete place and time, was not based on the Bible. New Testament was written by the members of the Church much later.

Jesus quoted from the old testament. He said it was reliable.

You don't believe the New Testament is inspired by God?

Why do you put your faith in Christ if you think the Bible is a bunch of crap?

A K A Stone  posted on  2018-02-10 17:16:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: A Pole (#59)

The actual Church of Christ as really founded by Christ Himself in a certain concrete place and time, was not based on the Bible. New Testament was written by the members of the Church much later.

How much later?

redleghunter  posted on  2018-02-10 18:50:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 59.

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