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Bang / Guns
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Title: Pittsburgh Murder Conviction Shows Why Being Afraid Doesn’t Make It Self-Defense
Source: Bearing Arms
URL Source: https://bearingarms.com/tom-k/2018/ ... conviction-illustrates-hammer/
Published: Jan 28, 2018
Author: Tom Knighton
Post Date: 2018-01-30 05:35:58 by Deckard
Keywords: None
Views: 1250
Comments: 24

When you talk about self-defense shooting, the phrase “I was in fear of my life” gets thrown around a lot. Some will even try and argue that you can use that argument to justify almost any shooting, that as long as you can say you were scared then a jury will let you off the hook.

Which, of course, is complete and total bovine excrement.

Don’t believe me? Tell it to this guy.

A ride-share van passenger convicted of murder in the shooting death of a man outside a Pittsburgh club has been sentenced to 15 to 30 years in prison.

Thirty-eight-year-old Derek Vasos testified that he was “scared to death” when he shot 28-year-old Donald Ketter Jr. early on Feb. 5 outside the Carrick Literary Club. He said Ketter appeared to be in a rage and seemed to have something in his hands. At Thursday’s sentencing, the judge said that Ketter posed no danger.

If he was “scared to death,” why was he convicted?

Well, the story is sparse, but it appears that the fear was all in Vasos’s head.

But Judge Cashman discounted those claims.

“There was no danger you were in. You weren’t going to suffer serious bodily injury or death,” the judge said.

At trial, testimony showed that Vasos had gotten into an Uber after leaving the after-hours Carrick Lit Club early in the morning of Feb. 5.

As the Uber was pulling away on Copperfield Avenue, its path was blocked by Mr. Ketter, who was standing in the middle of the street blocking traffic.

Vasos, who was sitting in the Uber’s front, passenger seat, honked the car’s horn, but Mr. Ketter didn’t move.

Vasos testified that Mr. Ketter appeared to be in a rage, took off his belt and wrapped it around his hand in what he interpreted as a threat. As Mr. Ketter approached Vasos’ window, Vasos said he pulled out his legally possessed gun and fired once out of fear. He then fled in the Uber, eventually turning himself in hours later.

The fact that Vasos left the scene probably didn’t help his case.

However, the real deciding factor was probably the fact that, as things stood, the worst he was going to get was a butt whooping. In almost no state are you justified in using lethal force to stop a butt whooping.

Vasos may well have been terrified. I’m not going to dispute that.

However, for lethal force to be justified, it needs to pass the reasonable man test. Would a reasonable man believe there is a threat of serious bodily harm or even death. While I don’t want to get in a scrap with an enraged guy who has wrapped his fist in a belt, that doesn’t justify an armed response in and of itself.

At least, that’s what the jury found.

This is an important thing to keep in mind when you’re talking about an armed response. You need to understand what may or may not be considered justification for lethal force. Just saying you’re scared isn’t enough, nor should it be.

 


Poster Comment:

Different rules apply for cops.

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 8.

#1. To: Deckard (#0)

Different rules apply for cops.

They certainly seem to, and I cannot support the distinction made in their favor.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-01-30   6:48:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Vicomte13 (#1)

Different rules apply for cops.

They certainly seem to, and I cannot support the distinction made in their favor.

The definition of seem: “Give the impression of being something.””

Rather than making a decision on an impression, would it be better to have a thorough grasp of the various facts before deciding not to support something?

Some would think so …

Gatlin  posted on  2018-01-30   9:09:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Gatlin (#2)

Rather than making a decision on an impression, would it be better to have a thorough grasp of the various facts before deciding not to support something?

Some would think so …

No. We live in a complex world, and we only have the time to be really good and deeply informed about the things that we are directly engaged with in our lives: our jobs, our families, etc.

Nevertheless, as citizens and voters, we have absolute power over the way the country is run. WE, not the professionals, are the ultimate deciders, through our votes.

It is therefore incumbent on the professionals who depend on us: our financial support, our voting support and our goodwill, to do everything possible to inform us, and to serve us in the way that we wish to be served.

In particular, it is incumbent on them to practice good public relations, to make it such that we have confidence in what they are doing. This is done in a variety of ways, but it is THEIR responsibility to make the effort and put on the show to satisfy US.

It is NOT our responsibility to withhold our judgment, withhold exercising our power as the sovereign: voters, taxpayers - until we have all of the facts. That would mean, in effect, that we simply stayed home, did not vote, did not force change when we don't like the appearance of something, because we can never be as well informed as the insiders.

However, we, not the professionals, are the insiders, and we decide, based on imperfect knowledge. It's THEIR job to keep us happy by what they generally do, to sell and promote themselves.

When they permit themselves a pattern of crappy conduct that becomes so pervasive that we take note and start turning against them, THEY have the problem, and THEY need to police themselves and clean up their act and stop having even the APPEARANCE of impropriety.

We do not have the time, the inclination or the duty to be perfectly informed, but we do have the absolute power to determine what the law will be, what budgets will be, who will be favored and who will be cut off.

That is democracy in a republic.

So no, it is not our job to be perfectly or deeply informed. It's the job of the police to behave in such a manner that they are not constantly coming before the public as killers, dog-killers, corrupt criminals and 'roid raging scumbags. They have to do a much better job of policing themselves. We don't have to do anything more than we are doing. We, not they, are the sovereign. They serve us, and they had better please us, or eventually we will turn on them politically and start prosecuting them, cutting them way back, etc., as is our right.

It should not be all that hard for the cops to police themselves. They are not doing a good job of that right now, and they had better start in a hurry, or it's going to be more and more miserable to be a cop, because the public will turn on them - and we're they're boss, not the other way around. Look how the public just creamed the professional politicians of both parties by electing Trump. Jeb Bush and Hillary Clinton really believed themselves entitled to power because of family, insider status, connections. They were both broken and disgraced by a public who were tired of them. We live in a democracy - in the end, the people rule.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-01-30   10:13:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Vicomte13 (#5)

Rather than making a decision on an impression, would it be better to have a thorough grasp of the various facts before deciding ...

No. We live in a complex world, and we only have the time to be really good and deeply informed about the things that we are directly engaged with in our lives: our jobs, our families, etc.

/..../

We do not have the time, the inclination or the duty to be perfectly informed ...

Impression is defined as an idea or feeling about something or someone, especially one formed without conscious thought or on the basis of little evidence.

I would not feel comfortable and therefore I would not make a decision without conscious thought or on the basis of little evidence. If called upon to do so, I could express and “opinion” and I would clearly state that it was an opinion.

Thank you for responding to my post …

I will leave you with this:

Confucius said:

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated.
Perhaps the same can be said about the world….we insist on making it complex.

A. Lee Martinez, In the Company of Ogres:

I believe it was the great ogre philosopher Gary who observed that complexity is, generally speaking, an illusion of conscious desire. All things exist in as simple a form as necessity dictates. When a thing is labeled 'complex,' that's just a roundabout way of saying you're not observant enough to understand it.

Gatlin  posted on  2018-01-30   14:25:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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