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Title: Trump to Palestinian Authority: No More Aid, No More Talking, No More Anything Until You Commit to Peace
Source:
TimesOfIsrael via AoS
URL Source: http://acecomments.mu.nu/?post=373538
Published: Jan 25, 2018
Author: Ace
Post Date: 2018-01-25 17:57:07 by Tooconservative
Keywords: None
Views: 10357
Comments: 86
Oh well. We'll just have to take the crudity of words backed up by actual action instead of more words. "That money is not going to them unless they sit down and negotiate peace, because I can tell you that Israel does want to make peace, and they’re going to have to want to make peace, too, or we’re going to have nothing to do with it any longer," he said. Poster Comment: Haley is toeing the same line at the U.N. in a showdown with the Pali scumbag. Twitchy: Nikki Haley destroyed Mahmoud Abbas during the UN Security Council meeting … we love this woman. — Fox News (@FoxNews) January 25, 2018 From Fox News: Haley made the remarks at a meeting of the U.N. Security Council on the Middle East. She pointedly contrasted Abbas with leaders like the late Egyptian President Anwar Sadat, whom she cited as a leader “willing to step forward, acknowledge hard truths, and make compromises.” “Where is the Palestinian Anwar Sadat?” she asked She made Abbas SO mad … Responding to U.S. threats to pull funding for the Palestianian Authority, he said: “Damn your money.” DAMN. This Trump is so boorish. I wish we had a well-spoken chubby-faced College Boy like Marco who would talk tough for conservative crowds and then pursue the perpetual pay-off-the-Palestinians plan that the Establishment prefers. In unscripted remarks to the press on Thursday, US President Donald Trump said the US would no longer transfer monetary aid to the Palestinians unless they entered peace negotiations with Israel, and excoriated the Palestinian leadership’s reaction to his decision last month to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital. Nikki Haley skewers Mahmoud Abbas at UN Security Council meeting https://t.co/UDnGcYKOoH U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. Nikki Haley launched a broadside Thursday at Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, accusing him of indulging in “outrageous” conspiracy theories about Israel and lacking what is needed to secure peace in the region. “We will not accept for the U.S. to be a mediator, because after what they have done to us — a believer shall not be stung twice in the same place,” Abbas said, according to The New York Times.
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#1. To: Tooconservative (#0)
I am not convinced Israel wants peace at all, except possibly on the condition that the Palestinians officially accept their second rate status. Israel will not accept a 2 state solution even if it means peace, though I'd love to be proven wrong. Of course Israel will claim they do want peace. If Trump were to make the same ultimatum to Israel it would be interesting to see the reaction. Maybe a 2 state solution OR no more money type deal. AIPAC would go anti-trump in an instant.
AIPAC, like AMA and ABA and AARP, are just not the powerhouses they once were. They still have influence but pols just aren't very scared of them any more. Chamber of Commerce is, by itself, probably more powerful than the 4 I listed combined. And a half-dozen more. CoC is very powerful. In many ways, they are the primary muck in the Beltway swamp. I found it interesting that Trump just happened to launch this threat to defund the Palis, had Haley reinforce it by telling off Abbas to his face, and all just as he arrived at Davos. Imagine their faces! LOL I saw Times of Israel also reported that France's new prez, Macron, had said he will not recognize Jerusalem as the Palestinian capital but he otherwise will stick with the EU idea that Jerusalem should be a capital for both states in a two-state solution. It's not unthinkable, every peace plan has always had this concept in it. A handful of small EU countries like Slovenia had been trying to agitate for EU countries to recognize Palestine as a state and its capital as Jerusalem, in effect granting Palestine the status of a nation. That would be a prelude to demanding that Palestine be given a seat at the U.N. So France won't be a part of that. And they do still hold a veto on the Security Council.
With any luck at all,that old asshole Jim-Mah Cawtur will stroke out.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
Or former Dem Senate majority leader, George Mitchell. Did you know he has made a full-time job out of being a peace envoy to Israel and the Palis since he left the Senate about 20 years ago? Or Lurch, who tried and failed several times to broker a peace deal with Israel. I saw he was making noises the last few days that he might run in 2020. If only.
This is not enough. They need to disapear or die.
No,but it's no real surprise. He is a whore for anyone that will pay him,selling influence. In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
because I can tell you that Israel does want to make peace, and they’re going to have to want to make peace, too, But he did just make the same ultimatum, end the argy bargy or we are out of here
For what it is worth, my dead dawg scruffy would have performed a much better job than Donald Trump. As an example, instead of spreading enmity with the Palestinians and favoring the Israelis, scruffy would be in the backyard of the WH burying a dawg bone. See how the peace process would be infinitely more effective? Yes, scruffy would be worrying about the good ol' USA!
Trump knows money talks. They were getting free dollars to continue to support terrorism. Cut off...that's the way.
Palestine was nobody's land over thousands of years. Jews originally immigrated to what became Israel from Iran or Irac after supposedly receiving a message from God that it was given to them. The rest is mostly mythology. Was Goliath a bad guy? Mostly he was somebody who wanted to continue living there. But he was the tallest man in the platoon who made him a candidate for a sharp rock in the head from David with subsequent celebration. In the eighteen hundreds a jewish fellow by the name of Hertzl in Russia made the suggestion that Jews should return to their traditional lands in Israel, which they began doing. In the 1920s they constituted 15% of the population of Israel. They then declared the other 85% of the population to be outsiders with British approval. This pissed the palistinians off. They are still pissed. I don't have a horse in this race. I can understand why the Palistinians are pissed. I don't happen to like the Palis. I am not happy about Jewish arrogance.
The historical record shows that couldn't be true. And I doubt the area was ever abandoned as is seems some imply when (many) Jews either left or were exiled from the region. I mean, what's the point of exiling a people from a certain territory if those ordering the exile planned to exile themselves from it as well? It's just not realistic to think of any culture keeping such a solid line between their lineages and the lineages of other cultures, especially if, when looting cities, enough rapes occurred to create half Jewish offspring. As I compose this, it occurs to me that perhaps the reason for the rule about how any child of a Jewish woman (but not a Jewish man) is also Jewish is because it would, in times of antiquity, conveniently exclude the offspring of any Jewish men who would rape gentile women while pillaging gentile cities, or for that matter, even if they were not pillaging. In any event, the Greeks conquered the area, followed by the Romans. Muslims later conquered the area, and Wikipedia claims many Jews essentially became Arabs, some even adopting Islam. That is believable as it's pretty much the norm worldwide when any people is conquered by another, including Japan after WW2. But the Crusades followed and so on and so forth. Rest assured, if the place was devoid of people, there wouldn't be much in the way of conquering required. People have been there for many thousands of years. And for me it's easy to speculate that the people native to the area over the millennia quite likely are at least in part, the descendants of ancient Israel. While some some left or were exiled, it was likely only a portion of them. So it's not much of a stretch to suggest that the Palestinians and others throughout the region might, to some degree, have ancient Jewish blood in them.
The historical record shows that couldn't be true. You just made my point in an attempt to deny it. I said Palestine was nobody's land over thousands of years. You attempt to refute it by giving a list of people who passed through but were unable or disinterestd in hanging on to it for any period. It belonged to nobody but the wind. Is that so hard to understand?
I took "nobody's land" to mean a land with virtually nobody in it. I suppose you meant a land with no clear owner of right.
Another sign from God that this land was kept in reserve for the Jews. In the middle of densely populated Near East, empty space waiting for the rightful owners. I am going to post a book review "The Birth of Israel: Myths And Realities"
"The closest genetic relatives of the Middle Eastern Jews are Druze, Bedouin and Palestinians." https://www.haaretz.com/science-and-health/palestinians-and-jews-share-genetic-roots-1.5411201
No doubt, Scruffy was the man for the job. But it is still pretty hard to elect a corpse. People just aren't ready for an undead doggie pres'nent.
I like how Trump laid this steaming turd right in the laps of the Davos elite, just as he was ready to arrive there to hobnob with his fellow-wizards. That's a total hoot. No doubt he's given the diplos a case of the vapors.
Regardless of the history, a bunch of Holocaust survivor families are in Israel and they and their military and their nukes say they're not going anywhere, ever. So the Palis need to get the best deal they can so their young people can aspire to more than just blowing up a bus of Yid schoolkids. That's just how it is.
Not all that much. The Jews have been pretty big on studies of mitochondrial DNA. However, these studies have left little doubt about modern European Jews having a very distinct common group of Semitic ancestors from the Mideast region.
Peace means the end of the nearly $4 Thousand-Million US tax dollars per year... and you're "not convinced"?? This entire charade is about the money. IMHO "we are tartets from evil doers!!!" [ and ] U looked up birfer on the dcitionary. It isn't a movie. "Listen piece of shit. Call me anti American again and your're banned. I don't like you." - aka stoned -
I seem to remember reading elsewhere that they have full Israeli citizenship, with full rights, even voting rights. That does not sound like second rate status. Si vis pacem, para bellum Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God. Never Pick A Fight With An Old Man He Will Just Shoot You He Can't Afford To Get Hurt "If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." (Will Rogers)
I get it. You are a card carrying Jew hater, and you have demonstrated that many times. You would have been dancing around like Bojangles while Jew kids were burned alive in concentration camp ovens. The so-called Palestinians are just Arab terrorists being used by Arabs as an excuse to conduct terror acts against Jews. Any Arab country has plenty of money to fully take care of these people, but of course they don't want to.
Any Arab country has plenty of money to fully take care of these people, but of course they don't want to. " The so-called Palestinians are just Arab terrorists / trouble makers. They have been kicked out of all Arab countries, no one wants them, because all they do is cause trouble, and contribute nothing positive. Si vis pacem, para bellum Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God. Never Pick A Fight With An Old Man He Will Just Shoot You He Can't Afford To Get Hurt "If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." (Will Rogers)
Some do, like the longterm Druze residents. And they are subject to compulsory military service as well, both sexes. That isn't true of the Palis.
Oh, I have, have I? This makes twice in one week where you have completely mischaracterized me. But it is noteworthy that you would respond this way to me and not respond to another on this thread who stated plainly that Palestinians should just disappear or die, which certainly sounds like a card carrying Palestinian hater to me. But I suppose in your world that just doesn't deserve any condemnation, right? Of course not. I don't suppose you have have any references supporting this accusation, do you? Ergo, all of them should just be exterminated. Roasted alive in ovens, perhaps? And there you have it. Proof they are subhuman and should just be wiped off the map.
Prior to WWII, some said similar things of Jews.
They are plainly discriminated against in all manner of ways. Bulldozed homes, illegal settlements, border crossings, destroyed orchards and farms and so forth Even when Isralies kill Palestinians and are prosecuted, they typically get the absolute minimal punishment that is politically palatable.
And there you have it. Proof they are subhuman and should just be wiped off the map. I've seen your responses on many web sites. It is obvious you prefer Arabs to Jews. Boy given the quoted remark above, I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion. Since you love Palestinian terrorists so much, go live there and give your money to them. Tell them how they are mistreated by the Jews. I'm sure they will treat you with love and admiration.
Yeah, and those damn Jews want to take away their bombs and rocket launchers, and protect themselves by building walls.
Seeing comments from me is not the issue. Comprehending them is. You are pulling a borderline Gatlin. That does not surprise me. Well, there's a blockade instituted by Israel making life miserable so I wouldn't be very happy with that. They're not even allowed concrete at last count, as they might use some of it to build defensive structures. But why don't you lead by example and pack your things and move to Israel? You can prove your love of Israeli Jews this very same way.
No such thing. That is UN tyranny talk. The solution is for all the Palis and Arabs to get their sorry asses out of Israel.
The noive!
Seeing comments from me is not the issue. Comprehending them is. You are pulling a borderline Gatlin. Comprehending you is not a problem at all. Well, there's a blockade instituted by Israel making life miserable so I wouldn't be very happy with that. Uh Huh. That has to be the reason. The go live in Dubai. Convince them about supporting Palestinians.
How inconsiderate of the Jews. I guess to make the Palis & their ass kissers happy, the Jews should all just commit mass suicide. Si vis pacem, para bellum Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God. Never Pick A Fight With An Old Man He Will Just Shoot You He Can't Afford To Get Hurt "If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." (Will Rogers)
You would have been dancing around like Bojangles while Jew kids were burned alive in concentration camp ovens. That really is pretty harsh. I've never seen him say anything like that.
All I have ever seen him do is support every bogus grievance against the Jews, especially Israel. So I guess I don't worry about being harsh.
References would be in order for sure. Coming up with them would certainly keep him busy for a pleasantly long time. Thank you, by the way.
You know, I was at the store yesterday and when I wasn't thinking about what I needed to buy, my mind wandered to this accusation, and it occurred to me that maybe it was my speculation that the rule for inherited jewry was based on birth by a Jewish mother was because it allowed Jewish men to disregard responsibility for their extramarital activities with gentile women. Was that what set you off? Rest assured, rules, particularly religious ones, have historically been made by us guys. Women have largely had no say in them, at least prior to 50 years ago and that bias certainly rears it's head. In the case of Judaism, I fault it for advocating a racial or religious based supremecy: You know the "we're God's chosen people" line. Putin once warned us Americans about the dangers of any people considering themselves exceptional, that after Obama made the claim for us Americans. Putin was right, and the same principle applies to Jews. No people should consider themselves more privileged then the rest of the world, and it's especially dangerous when it's religiously based. In my opinion we can see that in the attitudes of many Israeli jews in regards to illegal settlements and the general treatment of not just Palestinians. (i.e God gave us this holy land so everyone here should get the hell off it or die). Essentially, the basic tenant of Judaism (and please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) is that non-jews pretty much exist for the benefit of jews. It's actually not unlike how we as humans regard the existence of cattle, though of course not to that level. Christian zionists obviously enable this type of thinking, and of course they largely agree with it, as Judaism is without dispute the father of Christianity. But to be clear, I'm not just picking on Judaism. Islam has it's supremecy tenants also, though it's not ethnically based (perhaps one tiny consolation with that faith). Their problem is it sex-based. The whole 72 virgins bit. Women are basically chattel ... property of men, and at some point centuries ago, perhaps dating back to even Mohammed, the guys there decided that paradise must like a brothel. I suppose that was due to the limits of their imagination, or perhaps sex was the only thing that gave them any kind of respite from a life perhaps devoid of any other physical enjoyments. So with Islam, women pay the price and with Judaism, gentiles pay the price. So assuming you are not simply confusing me with someone else who actually posts Jew-hating material (which maybe you are) it could be instead that I am simply open to criticizing Judaism just like I'll criticize any other faith or idea. Perhaps you, on the other hand, consider Jews to be God's Chosen People such that saying anything about them that does not cast them in a favorable light is automatically Jew hating or anti-semitic. If that's the case, then I'll leave the labeling in your little world to you. I do have though at least one Jewish friend. I went to a bar mitzvah for his daughter many, many years ago, and I sat down for lunch with him a couple months back. He's a great guy. He loves people and he would have paid for my meal had I let him. Well he did, actually. I just insisted on paying the tip. I don't know how you are going to sort all this out in your simple black n white world, but I guess you have some homework to do now, assuming you choose to do it. Cheers....
I think you overstate or misinterpret this. Jews, coming from such an ancient culture, do naturally consider Gentiles as transient peoples, always getting conquered, adrift in history. Naturally, they will seek their own advantage. And this is a characteristic of all the Semitic peoples. Arabs are certainly that way, just not as competently as Jews have become because of their considerable education and cultural diversity. And modern Jews are simply not the Jews of yesteryear. In Israel, they still maintain a pretty consistent Jewish culture. But the larger majority of Jews scattered around the world (Europe, North and South America, etc.) no longer have that cultural solidarity. The rabbis have worried for years about the rates of intermarriage, about Jewish men marrying Gentile women (or vice versa), about all the issues involving intermarriage and children. And gay marriage has made it worse, with some wealthy Jews wanting their Jewish sons to marry their Catholic boyfriend and give them a few little adopted Chinese girls to play the role of granddaughter. This is a long and increasingly bitter debate among the various denominations and endless organizations that Jews debate these issues in. Judaism, especially in the Diaspora, just isn't nearly as Jewish as it used to be. Those old cultural norms have broken, perhaps irrevocably. And the rabbis and older generation can't get the younger generation to see it as anything important. Very upsetting to the traditionalists to consider that in 20 years, only 15%-20% of all Jews in the world will be married to a Jewish spouse. They also worry about producing enough children because they are well-below replacement rates (other than Orthodox Jews who have tons of kids). The Ashkenazim aren't exactly happy that the future of Judaism are the Orthodox Jews merely due to their prolific breeding. These are not happy topics of discussion for Jewish leaders. I'll repeat that BBC link from above. Look at what Bibi's brother-in-law is saying about the rumors that Bibi's son is dating a Norwegian Gentile.
I'm certainly not opposed to Jews cherishing their faith to the point of wanting to have pure Jewish marriages. My only beef is an apparent tenant of superiority that, okay, some of them have about being God's chosen. The video I posted illustrates the attitude well. Christians recognize that God loves everyone equally no matter their genes, origins or sins, but Judaism simply doesn't go along with that, at least as far as the old testament goes. Orthodox Jews would be at the forefront of this error, naturally. Moderate & peaceful Muslims have to deal with accusations about how the Koran states that unbelievers must be executed. They accept the passages as real, of course but dismiss it as being either antiquated teaching or needing to be taken in proper context of the day. So it seems both peaceful Muslims and progressive Jews have that difficulty in common. I remember Sally, AKA Goldi-lox of LP, a converted Jew, telling me on the phone once how Jews were not allowed ot charge fellow Jews interest on loans. If a white organization were to announce such a policy to fellow whites, it would certainly be a basis of serious accusation of white supremacy. But of course, you cannot accuse or ever suggest Judaism is a supremacist faith without risking being called an Jew hater or anti-semite, which, as you've seen, happened to me on this thread. Well, I guess my sin was in suggesting one Jewish tenant, however old it's origins may be, may have been formulated to excuse parental responsibility of Jewish men who have sex with gentile women.
Deuteronomy 10:19 “Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.”
She never did convert. She flirted with it but didn't carry through. So maybe a Gentile woman isn't the most reliable source of info. And, yes, Jews do charge interest to other Jews.
Huh?? All they've done is extend the olive branch while ceding land back to their perpetually hostile Muzzie tormentors after gaining it it two major wars (started of course BY Muzzie neighbors.) Ping, you do understand the Koran's commandments with respect to Jews (I assume)? Arafat was offered land, territory that would be considered a "Palestinian state" but rejected it. He took the money and the perpetual victimhood. Oh. And their "deal" is to occupy Israel. No compromise. *It needs to be noted that there is no "Palestinian" people, nor "Palestinian" culture, history, or semblance of gubmint or official leader UNTIL the sliver-state of Israel was re-established in 1948 (btw, their share of sovereign land was originally promised to be far greater -- until the Brits decided to give the vast majority of territory to Muslim pan-Jordan.)
a) Trump, the US, the UN are in NO position to deliver any such ultimatum to any sovereign nation. b) "Palestine" DOES. NOT. EXIST. Nor does its culture or ANY history. AIPAC would go anti-trump in an instant. I would concede that AIPAC does wield too much influence in America's affairs and self-interest.
That's mighty WHITE of the Micro-Leader. And French. Maybe Trump out to move our French embassy to Marseilles. JUST BECAUSE. I realize you know this, but it bears repeating: Jerusalem has been historically JEWISH and the de facto capital of Israel for over 2000 years. The EU "idea" of a bi-capital for an alleged "two-state solution" makes as much sense as the EU's suicidal importation/invitation of Muzzie invaders, looters, rapists, and terrorists. The EU's agenda is a literal occultist, One-World dictatorship in any case. Much like the Democrat Party in the US, the EU/UN are focused on "Divide & Conquer" tactics, lies, and propaganda... As of late, even the subversive Vatican has stepped out of the closet to support the occultist One-World Gubmint agenda.
There have been many eras with widely varying Jewish population in Jerusalem and across the lands of ancient Israel. It's a very long history.
France NEVER warranted or deserved any UN VETO power to begin with...I know -- irrelevant to this debate. As sister-EU leader to brother Germany (oh, the irony, huh?), behind the scenes the French PTB indeed support statehood for "Palestine"; They just won't publicly support it for a few reasons -- one, it would agitate Jews in high places. As well as Americans in high places. And anyone with a sense of propriety and truth.
It's a very long history. Yes, it is a very long history; Keyword: "Ancient." Jerusalem has been strongly associated with Israel historically longer and more legitimately than any other nation on the planet. If ever a case could be made for a nation's "Capital," "Jerusalem" is at the very top of the list. Despite the many conquests and occupations by foreigners, Jerusalem has never stopped being the unofficial capital of Israel. Historically and culturally -- Jerusalem more than any nation on earth -- merits and warrants official recognition and respect as a capital city of its people. In this case, obviously of Israel. Any political proposal that suggests any other nation "share" its capital -- especially Jerusalem; especially with Muslims; especially the contrived "Palestine" -- is too bogus for words, based on a lie, and ...frankly, insulting to one's intelligence.
You mean, other than in 70 AD when the Romans leveled it, leaving it unrecognizable according to Josephus. Jesus did prophesy destruction of Jerusalem and the Disapora in Matthew 24. That's when they destroyed the other fortresses and cities of Israel. Enslaved the able-bodied adults and sold all under 17 as personal slaves. Josephus said 1.1 million inhabitants, mostly Jewish, were killed. Then Titus built the Arch of Titus to celebrate. The Jews really hate that thing.
The Chinese and especially the Japanese would dispute that. Others as well. Although I'm not saying that Jews have not had a substantial presence there throughout history.
Expected. They might. Wouldn't change the truth of the matter. The time line and continued historical documentation of Jerusalem as strongly associated with Israel is indisputable. That's even without laying the whole, "But God said Jerusalem and Israel are both the Jews' land!" out there. Although I'm not saying that Jews have not had a substantial presence there throughout history. You or anyone could challenge the assertion, but the Jews' constant and continued heavy presence and ownership in Jerusalem would still be true. They never abandoned the ship.
Bunch of interesting historical tidbits you scrunched up in that little paragraph. I guess it's hard to sleep on a bed of crushed rock and dust. Oy. "Sho vee took a little break....."
Well, it is the prophecy of Jesus in Matthew 24 so it doesn't hurt to relay a summary of a contemporary Jew. Of course, Josephus wrote from a perspective that local Jewish leaders like the priests and the hothead Zealots provoked the Romans into destroying Jerusalem and other Jewish cities and sending most of the population into slavery. His account of the massacre and aftermath in Jerusalem is pretty grim stuff.
It's a fascinating historical account. We're fortunate that his account was preserved for posterity. Rarely are past bloody aftermaths related in such detail. I'm sure The Almighty wanted it that way, told from an "outsider" perspective" so it couldn't be claimed to be biased in any way. That the place and slaughter take place in Jerusalem is one in a litany of many accounts germane to Biblical prophecy and the Jews' self-destruction, redemption, and ultimate return to their home land.
Josephus acted as the main negotiator with the Jews in Jerusalem for the Roman general. He was writing a personal account of it. He blamed the Jews but some historians thought he would have been afraid to write anything that would make an emperor want him dead.
Valid and logical claim. Off the top of your head have you any idea of Josephus' timeline of his personal account?
Josephus was there from the beginning to the end AFAIK. He wrote about the entire operation. Josephus surrendered to Titus' father and was very close to young Titus. Josephus was a Benedict Arnold who got full citizenship and took the family name (Titus Flavius Josephus) as his own. Definitely a dynastic family retainer type, a fixture of the court. The Jewish War described briefly: So, yeah, for the first-century, it was a very comprehensive account. We have few to match it or even to compare to it. I may as well include this first-century bust which is supposedly Josephus himself:
Yes, extremely so. Wow. To your knowledge are there any other sources of events at the time so to validate any or all of Josephus' accounts? The "summary of Jewish history" seems to be worth a good read; I've only scraped the surface with respect to Josephus.
NOT a big fan of the CE/BCE change of dating by anti-Christian elements instead of the REAL markers of dating, BC and AD. An aside: Is there no end to this ongoing assault on all things Christian? Even in this context? (BOGUS)REASONS GIVEN HERE: https://www.ancient.eu/article/1041/the-origin-and-history-of-the-bcece-dating-system/ Aside from being more accurate, BCE/CE is inclusive. The use of BC/AD relegates every event prior to, and since, the birth of Jesus of Nazareth subordinate to the Christian understanding of who he was. For Christians, Jesus is the Christ, the annointed of God, the messiah. The calendar "counts down" to the birth of Jesus and then proceeds to count away from it. To a Christian this may seem like simple common sense and the way the world works but not so to someone outside of that tradition. People of different cultures and belief systems should be able to access and discuss history without having to date it according to the Christian belief in Jesus as the son of God and the messiah. It is for these reasons that Ancient History Encyclopedia, following standard scholarly guidelines in the 21st century, uses the designation BCE/CE instead of BC/AD. The encyclopedia has an international audience of readers who embrace multiple faiths and recognize many different belief systems. Therefore, Ancient History Encyclopedia has adopted the BCE/CE designation in an effort to be accurate, adhere to scholarly principles, and be inclusive and welcoming to all. BULLSH*T. Maybe we ought to change our numerical system since it is Arab. Or Calendar. Because it is Roman. SICK of "Inclusivity" used as a political sledgehammer by an anti-Christian academic "scholars."
We already use the Western Arab numerals. There are also the slightly older Hindu-Arab numerals also. Here's a Wiki pic of an Egyptian phone showing both types of arab numerals. They've been in fairly widespread use for about 10-12 centuries.
Deuteronomy 10:19 “Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.” There is no shortage of OT passages that plainly describe how Israel, upon returning from Egypt, are ordered to destroy the inhabitants who were living there, apparently peacefully. In some cases, they were ordered to kill all, in other cases they were permitted to spare some, but in all cases, Israel was preferred by God over those inhabitants. I've no doubt these references come into play when consideration of illegal settlements and purging Palestinians of farms and orchards, as per the sentiment described in the video I posted. In the OT, it is supposedly God who makes these determinations of granting lands to whom, in some cases to the other tribes of the time (Moabites and Ammonites being examples, though they were conveniently marginalized as a people in the OT because they were supposedly the incestuous descendants of Lot and his 2 daughters) but usually it's written as God giving lands of native inhabitants to Israel. Obviously there was a lot of tribal warfare world over going back to the dawn of history, and even before, but it may be that Judaism is the faith that reaches back the farthest to these ancient times to glean some guidance as to how they are to think and act more so than any other major faith. And according to those texts, there is no dispute that Israel was a tribe of "God's chosen people" that had divine right to conquer & often destroy the those not of that tribe of Israel. And while Christianity recognizes a "new covenant" via Jesus that now treats all humans as equals, Judaism still has that old covenant in place, as it has not expired.
I didn't know that. Still, she studied it, and one need not be a member of a club to be an authority on it. I did a little digging, and found this site which appears to be Jew oriented: ------- https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/64434/ribbis-interest-in-judaism To answer your first question, the Torah is very clear that interest may not be charged to Jews, but may be charged to non-Jews: Deuteronomy 23:21 Unto a foreigner thou mayest lend upon interest; but unto thy brother thou shalt not lend upon interest; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all that thou puttest thy hand unto, in the land whither thou goest in to possess it. ---------- Just like all other major faiths, there are subsets that have somewhat different teachings (some Jews are not zionists) so I'm sure some Jews would subscribe to this, and others who would disregard it, but I guess the rule on interest is not universal among Jews.
Well, I think the 67 war was technically started by Israel, though possibly preemptively as it appeared Egypt and friends were building up. But in any event, the current occupation of non-Israel land by Israeli forces is obvious, and the blockade of those people instituted by Israel is not in dispute. There are many goods you can buy in the hardware store that is not permitted into Gaza, which is in act of war if done aganist any other country. So no, the olive branch reference you gave is very wrong. Those under Israel's thumb are, without question, oppressed by Israel. Israel sees that as necessary to protect themselves, while Palestinians see that as a legitimate reason to hate Israelis. If Israel were to agree to a two state solution, the resulting government would have an interest in keeping Palestinians in line, in addition to allowing the people to be happier with more prosperous economic conditions. But it seems Israel prefers the oppressive situation with it's occasional terrorist acts and controversial world image than to treat Palestinians as a sovereign people. I suppose I do. Just like I understand the Torah's commandments with respect to tribes foreign to ancient Israel. Seriously, I don't think the Koran is any worse than the Torah/Old testament in regard to how their respective non-believers are to be treated. In any event, many Muslims are indeed peaceful and loving, just as many Jews and Christians are. And all three of those groups have also produced those who engage in violence for religious/political ends. Maybe Arafat responded in his own interests, or maybe that deal was not the great thing for his people as you believe it was. From your writings, does appear you are biased, as I'm sure you'd agree. Some zionists suggest the land was completely vacant when Jews returned there in 1948, and that all the Palestinians et al decided after that to move in. As I discussed earlier on this thread, I find that scenario very unlikely as once a land is inhabited, it's pretty much inhabited for all time thereafter. Even when a people is exiled from a place, the force that exiles them don't do it only to then vacate the place themselves. That just doesn't happen. When Jews returned to present day Israel, the people living there probably saw them as illegal aliens or perhaps "undocumented immigrants". Whatever oppression Jews suffered at the hands of Germany during WWII, it was not the doing of the people living in the middle east, and yet they had to and must continue to pay the price for a European country's sins. Yes, I think it was Britain that was responsible for actually creating national boundries in the middle east, just as they did in Africa. Prior to that it was just borderless and tribal. But the borders created much larger kingdoms placing conflicting tribes under a single rule that created more serious conflict. I don't know that Britain carving up these two land masses did anyone other than Britain any favors.
An ultimatum to make peace or lose foreign aid? Yes Trump can absolutely do that. And he may get around to it before his first term is up. We'll see.
"De facto" means something that is true in practice but not otherwise technically true or legally true. I'm unclear on when Jews were supposedly exiled from the "holy land" during or after Roman rule (it seems from your sentence you believe some Jews have been there the entire time, even under hundreds of years of Muslim rule). But clearly, Jerusalem was not any de facto capital of Israel in those intervening centuries up until 1948 as Israel as a country did not exist.
The Islamic "Dome of the Rock" is in Jerusalem, which if memory serves me, is where Mohamed supposedly ascended into heaven. Seems there was a bit of that going on there at the time. hehe. Heck, maybe Islam actually copycatted the Christian narrative on that one. And there are 1 billion Muslims in the world. While that lends religious and not legal/national interest to the city, a billion Muslim believers can kinda create a national interest.
Israel should destroy it. Then build something specific in its place.
That's a good point. The Chinese culture would only be beaten by the Egyptians, had Egyptians been able to reasonably maintain the level of civilization they had 3-4k years ago. But I'd think the Chinese would predate the Japanese.
I read years ago that Baghdad was the oldest city. Or heard it somewhere.
Just looked. Actually Damascus. That is actually what I heard in the past, I just remembered wrong.
Okay, then we should also point out that if true, then the Muslims did not exterminate them when they conquered the place even for hundreds of years. So if Muslims instinctively hate Jews as per your previous ref of the Koran, then why didn't they take them out when they had the chance? (I assumed your reference was that Muslims should kill Jews but... perhaps not?) It would seem that during this time, the Muslims did not view Jews (or actually Israel) as they do today. So what changed? Obviously Israel was created. Perhaps the beef Muslims have are less religious and more political than is commonly portrayed or assumed?
The Jewish people bought the land they live in, including Palestine around 1900. It is well documented the land was hardly occupied at the time. In fact, it was a combination of deserts and disease infested swamps. They bought it from greedy Arabs at inflated prices who laughed at the dumb Jews. They, through hard work and effort made it liveable. Once the Jews created a great environment, Arabs were hired as laborers. Later they became squatters on legally purchase land. That is who are the so-called Palestinians today. Why can't you understand the Arabs don't want peace with the Jews? I don't think you want to understand it.
The definition of "city" would be important to clarify. Two people pitching a tent could qualify, if the definition was extreme enough.
A natural skeptic, Twain was not taken by the splendor of the Holy Land. He wrote irreverently about the country’s legendary sites. The Sea of Galilee was, “a solemn, sailless, tintless lake, as unpoetical as any bath-tub on earth.” The Church of the Nativity was “tricked out in the usual tasteless style observable in all the holy places of Palestine.” Throughout Innocents Abroad, Twain explicitly states that the area was desolate and devoid of inhabitants. His group entered Palestine from the north, passing through such sites as the Sea of Galilee, the Banias, Nazareth, Jenin and Nablus. Riding on horseback through the Jezreel Valley, Twain observed, “There is not a solitary village throughout its whole extent – not for 30 miles in either direction. There are two or three small clusters of Bedouin tents, but not a single permanent habitation. One may ride 10 miles, hereabouts, and not see 10 human beings.” He continues, “Of all the lands there are for dismal scenery, I think Palestine must be the prince... Can the curse of the Deity beautify a land? “Palestine sits in sackcloth and ashes. Over it broods the spell of a curse that has withered its fields and fettered its energies.” Twain was not alone in his poor impression of the land of milk and honey. Historians and travelers alike made similarly dreary observations over the centuries. Six hundred years before Twain’s visit, another famous visitor with a nom de plume was struck by Jerusalem’s desolation. Rabbi Moses ben Nachman, known as Nachmanides (1194-1270), fled Christian Spain for the Land of Israel. After a long and perilous journey, Nachmanides arrived at the Port of Acre before traveling to Jerusalem in 1267, where he couldn’t even find nine other Jews to pray with. He wrote to his son, “Many are Israel’s forsaken places, and great is the desecration. The more sacred the place, the greater the devastation it has suffered. Jerusalem is the most desolate place of all.” Nevertheless, the sage, whose Torah commentary is still studied, had an altogether surprising interpretation of the desolation he encountered. He saw it as a blessing in disguise. Commenting on a verse in Leviticus that describes the curses that will befall the land of Israel, Nachmanides wrote that the devastation “constitutes a good tiding, proclaiming that during all our exiles, our land will not accept our enemies... Since the time that we left it, [the land] has not accepted any nation or people, and they all try to settle it... This is a great proof and assurance to us.” The 13th-century scholar wrote that Israel will remain desolate until the Jewish People assume control. But when the people of Israel finally return to the land of Israel, the region will once again flourish thanks to Divine providence. As the most famous eyewitness to the 19th-century desolation of Palestine, Twain was an unwitting collaborator of Nachmanides. Innocents Abroad brought global attention to the sorry state of Palestine and proved that Palestine was a land without a people for a people without a land just 15 years before the First Aliya and subsequent waves of Jewish immigration. Half a century after Twain’s visit, the Balfour Declaration was issued in 1917. Fifty years later the Six Day War was won. And today, in 2017 – 50 years after that – Israel continues to flourish, moving in leaps and bounds away from Twain’s “sackcloth and ashes.” At various points throughout his journey, Twain criticized his fellow “American vandals abroad” for the petty buying and selling of holy land trinkets and religious artifacts. So what compelled this skeptical father of American literature to buy an olive wood-covered Bible for his mother? Twain might not have known it at the time, but by reporting on the “curses” of Palestine during his visit, he was lending credence to the biblical passages he famously mocked in his book, prophecies which were fulfilled less than a few decades later. Likewise, Twain’s decision to purchase a Bible over any other trinket is evidence that he was moved by the religious holiness and spirit of the land.
I've never heard of any part of Israel having swamps. And I suppose if I sold you the Brooklyn bridge, that would make it yours also? I thought it was the land "flowing with milk and honey". You make it sound more like Utah, where the Mormans settled and worked because no one else wanted to live there. Sounds like a very convenient story book tale for kids. Does it end with "and they lived happily ever after?" Because in real life, things are more complex than that. It's easy to grab onto and hold a small little belief like that and never let go -- it makes it much easier to dismiss any need for critical thought. So lets' try some critical thought. Who were the Arabs the Jews supposedly bought the land from? Were they nobility? Probably not as I doubt there was anything approaching nobility in the Arab culture in 1900. How much did they pay? For how much land did they pay it? What authority or right did these mysterious Arabs sell the land? Did any of that money go to the people that were living there? If there was no one living there, why would these Jews pay anyone at all to move in? Can you answer any of these questions? Or is it just easier to say Muslims hate Jews and be done with it?
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20170927-lord-balfours-nephew-palestine-was-a-swamp-before-israel/ The rest of your questions and comments are just empty rhetoric. The Jew have legally owned the land they cultivated.
Interesting. Thank you. It is from jpost.com so that needs to be taken into account, but it is something to consider.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travelogues_of_Palestine Same quotes.
Kinda cool, ain't it? But for purely political or ideological reasons, we're not about to change it.
You have misunderstood the preceding scripture which explains in every case why God has ordered the destruction of inhabitants. It is crucial to read and understand right out of the gate from Genesis. Admittedly it's not all that easy to tie things together in some cases. Cherry-picking OT scripture is a major problem for those who think this technique makes the case(s) that indict both the Jews and most of all, The Almighty as bad guys, unfairly picking on non-Jews for no good reason. You're hardly alone in this regard -- even so-called "Believers" are confused in many cases. Unless as I'd suggested, OT scripture is read AND understood, and continuity maintained. If you're really curious and do truly want to understand God's reasons in the cases Jews are asked/demanded by God to eliminate others, Bible-study, willing knowledgeable mentors, or online sources would be helpful. (and btw, I still owe you a response and feedback on your own beliefs...sorry.) In all cases, Israel was preferred by God over those inhabitants. In general, Jews ARE indeed preferred or favored by The Almighty; They represent Mankind. But they are also severely disciplined or warned that they will be cursed and ARE cursed for disobedience. AND finally rewarded for perseverance. Just like the rest of Mankind. In the OT, it is supposedly God who makes these determinations of granting lands to whom, in some cases to the other tribes of the time (Moabites and Ammonites being examples, though they were conveniently marginalized as a people in the OT because they were supposedly the incestuous descendants of Lot and his 2 daughters) but usually it's written as God giving lands of native inhabitants to Israel. God's determinations and reasons for disciplining or destroying other tribes at the time aren't so simplistic or trivial. You've obviously dug in pretty deeply -- more than many Believers, but understanding the dynamics (or rather mis-understanding the dynamics is sorta like having ever number of a lock-combo right...except for a single click. One wrong miscue and the entire thing in out of line, out of context or misunderstood. Judaism is the faith that reaches back the farthest to these ancient times to glean some guidance as to how they are to think and act more so than any other major faith. And according to those texts, there is no dispute that Israel was a tribe of "God's chosen people" that had divine right to conquer & often destroy the those not of that tribe of Israel. ONLY for divine purpose and reason -- not frivolously or just for the heck of it. God also allowed the same destruction and conquest to Israel and of Jewish people, didn't He? And while Christianity recognizes a "new covenant" via Jesus that now treats all humans as equals, Judaism still has that old covenant in place, as it has not expired. It expired the day Jesus Christ proclaimed His New Covenant and Gospel. And yes, for over 2000 years Judaism has ignored their own fulfilled prophecies, awaiting a Messiah that has already arrived.
That's quite a beak on that bust. (Maybe his worried look broken beak was a warning that Josephus had better edit his original account of "history.")
Ok, I've read your series of posts... I can either spend half the day responding, or whittle it down to the basics. (I'll choose Plan B :-)
Well, aquiline noses were all the rage back in the day. The sculptors had a pretty free hand to conform statues to the general Roman style. We don't know how accurate any of these old Roman statues are.
The '67 War was clearly and factually pre-emptively started by the Arabs. Six Days of Miracles (explained in just ten minutes) Watching just the first 7:30 explains what happened as briefly as possible. There are many goods you can buy in the hardware store that is not permitted into Gaza, which is in act of war if done aganist any other country. Uh, perhaps because Palestinians keep on building home-made BOMBS with material from hardware stores. Capisce?? And IF you're referring to a "nation" -- like the fictional "Palestine" -- IT is NOT one. It is a UN-contrived perpetual refugee camp of so-called "Palestinians," aka displaces ARAB people (mostly from JORDAN) who are perpetually hostile to and at war forever with Israel. Despite this hostility and constant warring against Israel, did you realize that it is ISRAEL that supplies them their electricity? And provides goods and services? AND gives Arabs/Muzzie citizenship and a voice in government? Now tell me the REVERSE would be remotely possible... Those under Israel's thumb are, without question, oppressed by Israel. Utter BS. Israel sees that as necessary to protect themselves, while Palestinians see that as a legitimate reason to hate Israelis. Total mischaracterization. Palestinians, like ALL Muslims tribes, territories, states and nations HATE Jews and HATE Israel. And wish them D-E-A-D. And beside that, they HATE the "infidel," aka NON-Muzzies. So conclusively, Palestinians are just typical illogical Arabs/Muzzies/Death Cultists. (You'd asked in another recent post why Muslims in the past didn't exterminate the Jews while they were in pwer in the region. One, they were mis-treated as Dhimmis. Two -- since Israel was re-created a nation AND as Israel thrived and beaten them in every war and embarrassed the Muslim World, their Koranian pledge to kill every last Jew is out in the open.) If Israel were to agree to a two state solution, the resulting government would have an interest in keeping Palestinians in line, in addition to allowing the people to be happier with more prosperous economic conditions. But it seems Israel prefers the oppressive situation with it's occasional terrorist acts and controversial world image than to treat Palestinians as a sovereign people. You're serious, aren't you? That's not only completely non-sensical, irrational and illogical, but patently untrue. Abbas: 'Jordan and Palestine are One People in Two States' Palestinian Authority leader makes statement likely to overjoy Israeli nationalists during meeting with Jordanian soccer head in Amman. Contact Editor Ari Soffer, 19:48 Were you aware that as had been reported in Feb 2015, Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas described Jordanian and Palestinian Arabs as "one people living in two states"? Did you know that Abbas has Jordanian citizenship? Why do advocates of an Israel-"Palestine" two-state solution completely IGNORE the fact that ALL OTHER Arab-Muslim nations -- especially Jordan -- refused to cede any of the British Mandate of Palestine (Arabs received the vast Lion's Share) to these "Arab Brothers"? Do you know or acknowledge that Jordan had harassed, murdered, and finally driven out their "Arab Brothers" way back, exiling them to the desert? And THAT is how they wound up beggars at Israel's door. But don't believe me; Look it up. Yet incredibly, you and others either convenient forget the truth or ignore it, putting ALL the blame on an "oppressive Israel." For the life of me, I don't understand how sentient people concerned with truth ignore an oft-repeated Muzzie vow to destroy Israel with every chance it gets? Again, there IS no "Palestinian" history, culture, language, borders, and identity other than the the contrived grievance that Israel is "occupying" the fictional "nation" of "Palestine"? Let's speculate for the sake of argument that "Palestine" is created as a "Two-State Solution"; End of story and of hostilities between the Arab World and Jews, right? WRONG. Most of us know without a doubt that Arab-Muzzie nations would merely used a newly created "Palestinian neighbor" as a springboard from which to blitz Israel. AS THEY HAVE REPEATEDLY in 1948, 1956, 1967, and 1973. Nothing has changed. And anyway, just why should Israel surrender its own sovereignty and security? Seriously, I don't think the Koran is any worse than the Torah/Old testament in regard to how their respective non-believers are to be treated. In any event, many Muslims are indeed peaceful and loving, just as many Jews and Christians are. And all three of those groups have also produced those who engage in violence for religious/political ends. Just...wow. Geeez...ok, no need to exchange ideas or debate any further you on this subject if this is your delusional perspective. You've made your position clear. Ours would be an exercise in futility.
Maybe THAT was their plastic surgery fad back in the day. Maybe the bigger and more beakish the schnozz, the more masculine or powerful. And sculptor accommodated the wish of their customers. We don't know how accurate any of these old Roman statues are. True. Hmm...You mean centaurs might not actually have existed back then? :-( And if Mona Lisa was considered "a beauty," those were dire time, weren't they?...
I always thought the various art and statues of Roman emperors had big fake noses. I doubt they had such hawkish honkers in real life. It was the admired facial standard in art in that era. Artists always tend to conform to the popular sensibilities and physical ideals of their own era.
because I can tell you that Israel does want to make peace, and they’re going to have to want to make peace, too,
#2. To: Pinguinite (#1)
#3. To: Tooconservative (#0)
#4. To: sneakypete (#3)
With any luck at all,that old asshole Jim-Mah Cawtur will stroke out.
#5. To: Pinguinite (#1)
I am not convinced Israel wants peace at all, except possibly on the condition that the Palestinians officially accept their second rate status.
#6. To: Tooconservative (#4)
Or former Dem Senate majority leader, George Mitchell. Did you know he has made a full-time job out of being a peace envoy to Israel and the Palis since he left the Senate about 20 years ago?
#7. To: Pinguinite (#1)
If Trump were to make the same ultimatum to Israel
#8. To: Tooconservative (#0)
This Trump is so boorish. I wish we had a well-spoken chubby-faced College Boy like Marco who would talk tough for conservative crowds and then pursue the perpetual pay-off-the-Palestinians plan that the Establishment prefers.
#9. To: Tooconservative (#0)
#10. To: Tooconservative (#0)
#11. To: rlk, redleghunter, A Pole, Tooconservative (#10)
Palestine was nobody's land over thousands of years.
#12. To: Pinguinite (#11)
Palestine was nobody's land over thousands of years.
#13. To: rlk (#12)
#14. To: rlk (#10)
Palestine was nobody's land over thousands of years. ... The rest is mostly mythology.
#15. To: Pinguinite (#11)
So it's not much of a stretch to suggest that the Palestinians and others throughout the region might, to some degree, have ancient Jewish blood in them.
#16. To: buckeroo (#8)
For what it is worth, my dead dawg scruffy would have performed a much better job than Donald Trump. As an example, instead of spreading enmity with the Palestinians and favoring the Israelis, scruffy would be in the backyard of the WH burying a dawg bone.
#17. To: redleghunter (#9)
Trump knows money talks. They were getting free dollars to continue to support terrorism.
#18. To: rlk (#10)
I don't have a horse in this race. I can understand why the Palistinians are pissed. I don't happen to like the Palis. I am not happy about Jewish arrogance.
#19. To: Pinguinite (#11)
So it's not much of a stretch to suggest that the Palestinians and others throughout the region might, to some degree, have ancient Jewish blood in them.
#20. To: Pinguinite (#1)
"...I am not convinced Israel wants peace at all..."
#21. To: Pinguinite (#1)
" Palestinians officially accept their second rate status. "
#22. To: Pinguinite (#1)
#23. To: no gnu taxes (#22)
(Edited)
" The so-called Palestinians are just Arab terrorists being used by Arabs as an excuse to conduct terror acts against Jews.
#24. To: Stoner (#21)
I seem to remember reading elsewhere that they have full Israeli citizenship, with full rights, even voting rights.
#25. To: no gnu taxes (#22)
I get it.
You are a card carrying Jew hater, and you have demonstrated that many times.
You would have been dancing around like Bojangles while Jew kids were burned alive in concentration camp ovens.
The so-called Palestinians are just Arab terrorists being used by Arabs as an excuse to conduct terror acts against Jews.
Any Arab country has plenty of money to fully take care of these people, but of course they don't want to.
#26. To: Stoner (#23)
They have been kicked out of all Arab countries, no one wants them, because all they do is cause trouble, and contribute nothing positive.
#27. To: Stoner (#21)
That does not sound like second rate status.
#28. To: Pinguinite (#25)
Any Arab country has plenty of money to fully take care of these people, but of course they don't want to.
#29. To: Pinguinite (#27)
They are plainly discriminated against in all manner of ways.
#30. To: no gnu taxes (#28)
I've seen your responses on many web sites. It is obvious you prefer Arabs to Jews.
Boy given the quoted remark above, I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion.
Since you love Palestinian terrorists so much, go live there and give your money to them. Tell them how they are mistreated by the Jews. I'm sure they will treat you with love and admiration.
#31. To: Pinguinite (#27)
(Edited)
illegal settlement
#32. To: no gnu taxes (#29)
Yeah, and those damn Jews want to take away their bombs and rocket launchers, and protect themselves by building walls.
#33. To: Pinguinite (#30)
#34. To: no gnu taxes (#29)
" Yeah, and those damn Jews want to take away their bombs and rocket launchers, and protect themselves by building walls. "
#35. To: no gnu taxes, Pinguinite (#22)
You are a card carrying Jew hater, and you have demonstrated that many times.
#36. To: Tooconservative (#35)
#37. To: Tooconservative, no gnu taxes (#35)
(Edited)
That really is pretty harsh. I've never seen him say anything like that.
#38. To: no gnu taxes, Tooconservative (#36)
All I have ever seen him do is support every bogus grievance against the Jews, especially Israel.
#39. To: Pinguinite (#38)
(Edited)
In my opinion we can see that in the attitudes of many Israeli jews in regards to illegal settlements and the general treatment of not just Palestinians. (i.e God gave us this holy land so everyone here should get the hell off it or die). Essentially, the basic tenant of Judaism (and please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) is that non-jews pretty much exist for the benefit of jews. It's actually not unlike how we as humans regard the existence of cattle, though of course not to that level.
#40. To: Tooconservative (#39)
#41. To: Pinguinite (#40)
Christians recognize that God loves everyone equally no matter their genes, origins or sins, but Judaism simply doesn't go along with that, at least as far as the old testament goes.
#42. To: Pinguinite (#40)
I remember Sally, AKA Goldi-lox of LP, a converted Jew, telling me on the phone once how Jews were not allowed ot charge fellow Jews interest on loans.
#43. To: Pinguinite (#1)
I am not convinced Israel wants peace at all...
#44. To: Pinguinite (#1)
If Trump were to make the same ultimatum to Israel...
#45. To: Tooconservative (#2)
I saw Times of Israel also reported that France's new prez, Macron, had said he will not recognize Jerusalem as the Palestinian capital but he otherwise will stick with the EU idea that Jerusalem should be a capital for both states in a two-state solution.
#46. To: Liberator (#45)
I realize you know this, but it bears repeating: Jerusalem has been historically JEWISH and the de facto capital of Israel for over 2000 years.
#47. To: Tooconservative (#2)
A handful of small EU countries like Slovenia had been trying to agitate for EU countries to recognize Palestine as a state and its capital as Jerusalem, in effect granting Palestine the status of a nation. That would be a prelude to demanding that Palestine be given a seat at the U.N. So France won't be a part of that. And they do still hold a veto on the Security Council.
#48. To: Tooconservative (#46)
(Edited)
There have been many eras with widely varying Jewish population in Jerusalem and across the lands of ancient Israel.
#49. To: Liberator (#45)
I realize you know this, but it bears repeating: Jerusalem has been historically JEWISH and the de facto capital of Israel for over 2000 years.
#50. To: Liberator (#48)
Jerusalem has been strongly associated with Israel historically longer and more legitimately than any other nation on the planet.
#51. To: Tooconservative (#50)
The Chinese and especially the Japanese would dispute that. Others as well.
#52. To: Tooconservative (#49)
You mean, other than in 70 AD when the Romans leveled it, leaving it unrecognizable according to Josephus. Jesus did prophesy destruction of Jerusalem and the Disapora in Matthew 24. That's when they destroyed the other fortresses and cities of Israel. Enslaved the able-bodied adults and sold all under 17 as personal slaves. Josephus said 1.1 million inhabitants, mostly Jewish, were killed. Then Titus built the Arch of Titus to celebrate. The Jews really hate that thing.
#53. To: Liberator (#52)
Bunch of interesting historical tidbits you scrunched up in that little paragraph.
#54. To: Tooconservative, redleghunter (#53)
(Edited)
Of course, Josephus wrote from a perspective that local Jewish leaders like the priests and the hothead Zealots provoked the Romans into destroying Jerusalem and other Jewish cities and sending most of the population into slavery. His account of the massacre and aftermath in Jerusalem is pretty grim stuff.
#55. To: Liberator (#54)
Rarely are past bloody aftermaths related in such detail.
#56. To: Tooconservative (#55)
He blamed the Jews but some historians thought he would have been afraid to write anything that would make an emperor want him dead.
#57. To: Liberator (#56)
(Edited)
Off the top of your head have you any idea of Josephus' timeline of his personal account?
Josephus recorded Jewish history, with special emphasis on the first century CE and the First Jewish–Roman War, including the Siege of Masada. His most important works were The Jewish War (c. 75) and Antiquities of the Jews (c. 94). The Jewish War recounts the Jewish revolt against Roman occupation (66–70). Antiquities of the Jews recounts the history of the world from a Jewish perspective for an ostensibly Roman audience. These works provide valuable insight into first century Judaism and the background of Early Christianity. Divided into seven books, it opens with a summary of Jewish history from the capture of Jerusalem by the Seleucid ruler Antiochus IV Epiphanes in 164 BC to the first stages of the First Jewish–Roman War (Book I and II). The next five books detail the unfolding of the war, under Roman generals Vespasian and Titus, to the death of the last Sicarii. The book was written about 75 AD, originally in Josephus's "paternal tongue" – either Aramaic or Hebrew[4] – though this version has not survived. It was later translated into Greek, probably under the supervision of Josephus himself. However, "the current Greek edition does not appear to be a translation, but must be considered a new edition, a complete re-working of the first writing and likely a considerable expansion". 
#58. To: Tooconservative (#57)
So, yeah, for the first-century, it was a very comprehensive account. We have few to match it or even to compare to it.
#59. To: Tooconservative (#57)
#60. To: Liberator (#59)
Maybe we ought to change our numerical system since it is Arab. Or Calendar. Because it is Roman.
#61. To: A K A Stone (#41)
#62. To: Tooconservative (#42)
She never did convert. She flirted with it but didn't carry through.
So maybe a Gentile woman isn't the most reliable source of info.
And, yes, Jews do charge interest to other Jews.
#63. To: Liberator (#43)
All they've done is extend the olive branch while ceding land back to their perpetually hostile Muzzie tormentors after gaining it it two major wars (started of course BY Muzzie neighbors.)
Ping, you do understand the Koran's commandments with respect to Jews (I assume)?
Arafat was offered land, territory that would be considered a "Palestinian state" but rejected it. He took the money and the perpetual victimhood. Oh. And their "deal" is to occupy Israel. No compromise.
*It needs to be noted that there is no "Palestinian" people, nor "Palestinian" culture, history, or semblance of gubmint or official leader UNTIL the sliver-state of Israel was re-established in 1948 (btw, their share of sovereign land was originally promised to be far greater -- until the Brits decided to give the vast majority of territory to Muslim pan-Jordan.)
#64. To: Liberator (#44)
Trump, the US, the UN are in NO position to deliver any such ultimatum to any sovereign nation.
#65. To: Liberator (#45)
I realize you know this, but it bears repeating: Jerusalem has been historically JEWISH and the de facto capital of Israel for over 2000 years.
#66. To: Liberator (#48)
Any political proposal that suggests any other nation "share" its capital -- especially Jerusalem; especially with Muslims; especially the contrived "Palestine" -- is too bogus for words, based on a lie, and ...frankly, insulting to one's intelligence.
#67. To: Pinguinite (#66)
"Dome of the Rock"
#68. To: Tooconservative (#50)
Jerusalem has been strongly associated with Israel historically longer and more legitimately than any other nation on the planet.
The Chinese and especially the Japanese would dispute that.
#69. To: Pinguinite (#68)
#70. To: All (#69)
#71. To: Liberator (#51)
but the Jews' constant and continued heavy presence and ownership in Jerusalem would still be true. They never abandoned the ship.
#72. To: Pinguinite (#65)
#73. To: A K A Stone (#69)
I read years ago that Baghdad was the oldest city.
#74. To: Pinguinite (#63)
Some zionists suggest the land was completely vacant when Jews returned there in 1948, and that all the Palestinians et al decided after that to move in. As I discussed earlier on this thread, I find that scenario very unlikely as once a land is inhabited, it's pretty much inhabited for all time thereafter
#75. To: no gnu taxes (#72)
The Jewish people bought the land they live in, including Palestine around 1900. It is well documented the land was hardly occupied at the time. In fact, it was a combination of deserts and disease infested swamps.
They bought it from greedy Arabs at inflated prices who laughed at the dumb Jews.
They, through hard work and effort made it liveable.
Once the Jews created a great environment, Arabs were hired as laborers. Later they became squatters on legally purchase land. That is who are the so-called Palestinians today.
Why can't you understand the Arabs don't want peace with the Jews? I don't think you want to understand it.
#76. To: Pinguinite (#75)
I've never heard of any part of Israel having swamps.
#77. To: A K A Stone (#74)
#78. To: Pinguinite (#77)
Interesting. Thank you. It is from jpost.com so that needs to be taken into account, but it is something to consider.
#79. To: Tooconservative (#60)
We already use the Western Arab numerals. There are also the slightly older Hindu-Arab numerals also. Here's a Wiki pic of an Egyptian phone showing both types of arab numerals. They've been in fairly widespread use for about 10-12 centuries.
#80. To: Pinguinite (#61)
(Edited)
There is no shortage of OT passages that plainly describe how Israel, upon returning from Egypt, are ordered to destroy the inhabitants who were living there, apparently peacefully.
#81. To: Tooconservative (#57)
#82. To: Pinguinite (#63)
#83. To: Liberator (#81)
(Edited)
That's quite a beak on that bust.
#84. To: Pinguinite (#63)
Well, I think the 67 war was technically started by Israel, though possibly preemptively as it appeared Egypt and friends were building up.
#85. To: Tooconservative (#83)
Well, aquiline noses were all the rage back in the day. The sculptors had a pretty free hand to conform statues to the general Roman style.
#86. To: Liberator (#85)
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