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Title: Windows 10 = Maze of Slow, Intrusive Garbage. Need Help in Un-Bloating and Speeding Up
Source: Me
URL Source: [None]
Published: Jan 2, 2018
Author: Me
Post Date: 2018-01-02 11:15:46 by Liberator
Keywords: Windows 10, Intrusive, Garbage
Views: 17070
Comments: 92

To you Computer tech-heads, just got a Win 10 HP piece of crap that is running in quicksand. It's not a brand new machine...

Firefox is running, but preventing the LF page from opening without permission. Took forever to load youtube as well as all other pages.

Have loaded CCleaner and Avast.

There seems to be a mountain of bloatware and intrusive programs running in the background. I'm a Win 7 guy, so this is all Greek to me. It's like a selfish Monster has hijacked the machine.

The Settings are nothing like the simplicity of Win 7. Very convoluted.

How do I take back this machine? And stop the intrusive stuff and updates?

Any constructive suggestions are appreciated. Thanks...

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 92.

#12. To: Liberator (#0)

A decent downgrade guide, covers the issues pretty well.

How to Downgrade Preinstalled or Upgraded Windows 10 Installation to Windows 7/8.1

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-01-02   17:40:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Tooconservative, Liberator (#12)

How would Liberator downgrade when he bought a used computer with Win-doze 10 pre-installed? There is no traceability to a license agreement with Microsoft and therefore no warranty per your dumb ass suggestion.

buckeroo  posted on  2018-01-02   17:48:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: buckeroo (#13)

How would Liberator downgrade when he bought a used computer with Win-doze 10 pre-installed? There is no traceability to a license agreement with Microsoft and therefore no warranty per your dumb ass suggestion.

He only needs an existing Win7 Pro license to install an old version. Since he is mourning the loss of his old OS, he has a good chance of already owning a Win7 that he could install on this Win10 Hellmachine.

I never suggested he had any warranty. You made that up. Dumb ass.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-01-02   18:03:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Tooconservative (#15)

He only needs an existing Win7 Pro license to install an old version. Since he is mourning the loss of his old OS, he has a good chance of already owning a Win7 that he could install on this Win10 Hellmachine.

With the Win7 PRO that I know of (fully licensed of course) from the original install, it will read the CPU registration and lock to the machine. Win 7 is not transferable to other boxes is what I am suggesting.

You are simplifying the issues into silliness.

buckeroo  posted on  2018-01-02   20:26:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: buckeroo, Liberator (#17)

With the Win7 PRO that I know of (fully licensed of course) from the original install, it will read the CPU registration and lock to the machine. Win 7 is not transferable to other boxes is what I am suggesting.

You get stupider by the day.

Win7 and others never lock to a CPU. The OEM versions of newer versions of Windows will lock to a particular motherboard and its components. For these, you must stay with the same computer or at least a motherboard with the same components. However, you can install different CPUs with no problem. For OEM versions, the OS is locked to the first computer (motherboard configuration) you install it on and you cannot upgrade previous versions of Windows with it.

If you have a full licensed copy of Win7, you can install it where you like and it can upgrade old versions of Windows (and it has direct support from Microsoft, not the OEM). It does "lock" to a particular configuration of motherboard/RAM/drives/video cards during the registration process with Microsoft. This can temporarily inhibit any component changes, even while still using a computer with the same CPU/mobo/video card. Microsoft will accept new configurations but it takes a little more fuss. In no case is the OS ever locked to a particular CPU or hardware configuration or motherboard.

You don't seem to know much about Windows OEM vs. full versions. You shouldn't be offering advice to anyone.

Liberator might be better off just trying to clean up his Win10 machine to make it usable. The presence of creepy bloated spyware is discouraging but with some effort, he should be able to get a clean Win10. And keep in mind that this Win7-Forever thing is going to turn out just like the WinXP-Forever did. When the manufacturers of the components and Microsoft stop building drivers for new components and motherboards for an old OS like WinXP or Win7, that OS's days are numbered.

Microsoft ended all non-subscribed (paid corporate) support for Win7 in January 2015, two years ago. Even the paid corporate bigwigs will receive support only through January of 2020, only two years from now. And even the subscribed support corporate types get only security patches and minor updates. Microsoft is not producing any new device driver support for these corporate machines so they lack the ability to use many newer components appearing on the market due to lack of drivers.

You may want to reconsider making much effort or incurring expense to make a Win10 HP into a Win7 HP with only two years left in the Win7 support cycle. I know this isn't happy advice for you to hear but you need to be coldblooded about it and recognize the reality of what happens when Microsoft sunsets and then drops support for one of its OSes.

Ignore buckwheat's advice.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-01-03   3:57:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Tooconservative, buckeroo (#18)

You get stupider by the day.


Yep, and every time I break wind from the
beans the sound it makes is: "Buckeroo."

Willie Green  posted on  2018-01-03   8:50:21 ET  (1 image) Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Willie Green, buckeroo, Liberator (#20)

Yep, and every time I break wind from the beans the sound it makes is: "Buckeroo."

One of your most perspicacious observations here at LF.     : )

Going back to my #19 and the performance hits that older Intel CPU-based systems will incur to fix the CPU flaw in these older systems (under Linux/Windoze/MacOS), there are those within the industry who are saying this benefits AMD.

AMD's new generation of CPUs do not have this deep security flaw found in the Intel CPUs. These AMD CPUs, the Ryzen line for desktops/workstations and AMD's big multicore server CPUs do not incur these speed penalties that are being enacted now on all the Intel-based machines that are a few years old. So suddenly those old Windows machines are going to get noticeably slower. People that just got screwed by Intel are going to be looking hard at buying AMD if they feel they have to upgrade their machines due to this security flaw. Why would anyone want to reward a company that just screwed them by buying another of their products? Nobody wants to do that. And it does give AMD a food in the door, just as their powerful new chip designs have matured and come to market in sizable quantities.

Intel issued a patch to essentially slow down all machines running Linux/Windoze and close the security hole caused by the flawed CPU design. Now that has apparently been pulled back and the AMD machines sail on running at full speed and the Intel-based machines are stuck with worse performance if they patch this severe security hole. Apple will have to do the same, I think. Apple's Mach micro-kernel would seem to be just as vulnerable from what I'm reading.

The most recent Intel CPUs are far less impacted by the performance hit incurred by patching this CPU flaw. This indicates that Intel knew for some time that they were producing extremely flawed CPU designs and chose not to fix that problem and then issued a patch to fix and, therefore, greatly slow down those CPUs. It brings to mind the Apple iPhone scandal of stealthily trying to downgrade their performance to save their battery life (warranted for 3 years for AppleCare customers to retain over 50% of battery life, no matter how many times the battery cycled). So I would expect some class action lawsuits against Intel for this. Among others, thing of all the cloud providers with hundreds of thousands of these CPUs who will, as a direct result of Intel's actions, lose 20%-50% of the performance they paid Intel's premium prices to obtain. This will not end well for Intel in court.

Then think of all the damage from class action lawsuits by ordinary consumers.

For the first time in a long time, this might be the time to consider buying some AMD stock. They really do have some good new hardware in their latest CPU designs. There are also some of the latest Intel CPUs that are containing fairly powerful AMD Radeon graphics instead of the various Intel embedded 3d graphics capabilities, an implicit admission that AMD has progressed faster and cheaper than Intel has. Intel wouldn't license AMD's Radeon silicon for its own chips if it could economically provide the same performance in-house. I welcome the competition, across the board. The rise of AMD against Intel has always been a net bonanza for the consumer, it seems.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-01-04   10:41:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Tooconservative (#21)

What about processors in phones/tablets? ARM, Qualcomm etc. etc.? Android OS?

Willie Green  posted on  2018-01-04   11:03:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Willie Green (#22)

What about processors in phones/tablets? ARM, Qualcomm etc. etc.? Android OS?

Apparently, some of the ARM CPUs suffer a comparable defect, the bigger 64-bit ones. So many of these are customized CPU cores, like Apple's A8/A9/A10 CPUs in its iPhones/iPads, that it is hard to make a comprehensive statement about all the ARM CPU variants. But I suspect the high-end ARM CPUs will suffer some performance penalty as well. Most prominent suspects: Windows 10 tablets with ARM and Google's own Chromebook and its clones (like the ASUS Chromebook).

The units most likely to be adversely affected will be the most pricey models produced in recent years for Windows ARM tablets and Chromebook hardware. That'll leave a bad taste in the mouths of buyers and summon a parade of class-action lawyers hungry for a payoff.

I think people haven't quite realized just how bad this is for Intel and, to a lesser extent, ARM.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-01-04   11:10:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Tooconservative (#23)

Is the defect actually being criminally exploited by malicious hackers? Or is it just a theoretical flaw that MAYBE they might find out about someday?

Willie Green  posted on  2018-01-04   11:18:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Willie Green (#24)

In the link above to The Register, they have a very complete explanation of the exact nature of the flaw in handling kernel requests and why they have to move the virtual kernel to its own separate address space (incurring a major speed penalty).

They mention this at the end:

Finally, macOS has been patched to counter the chip design blunder since version 10.13.2, according to operating system kernel expert Alex Ionescu. And it appears 64-bit ARM Linux kernels will also get a set of KAISER patches, completely splitting the kernel and user spaces, to block attempts to defeat KASLR. We'll be following up this week.

So, that answers some of your question about ARM systems. And I am already safely slowed down on my Intel i7 Mac as I am now running MacOS 10.13.2.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-01-04   12:47:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Tooconservative (#26)

Hey, I gotta Win 10 question that maybe you can answer for me...

I have a cheapie HP Stream 11-y010wm notebook computer that I use on very rare occasion when I need to use HP scanner/printer software on my printer...

Anyway, the damn Win10 upgrade wizard tells me that my CPU is OK & my RAM is OK, but I don't have enough space on the 32GB built-in hard disk. Well I've run the damn disk cleaning utility and I've removed all the damn programs except Windows itself (plus a few HP programs I need for the Wifi, mousepad & crap like that) and the frigging bloatware STILL tells me I need more room... I'm at wits end... what else can I safely remove so the damn upgrade will work? Even if I have to remove system files that it'll reinstall when it upgrades... Any advice/help would be appreciated.

Willie Green  posted on  2018-02-20   18:08:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Willie Green (#27)

Maybe you should check what your disk free space is. Go to My Computer, right-click the hard drive icon, select Properties from the pop-up menu. You should see how much space is used and free with a pie chart.

You might check to see whether you're running the 32-bit or the 64-bit version of Win10.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-02-20   18:50:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: All (#29)

After I offered up advice that you solicited, you don't even bother to reply.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-02-22   12:46:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Tooconservative, VxH (#30)

After I offered up advice that you solicited, you don't even bother to reply.

Sorry... I've been struggling with that damn bloatware, trying to get the upgrade to work...

I have the 64-bit... and the suggestions you gave helped quite a bit... I can clean out a LOT of crap that the clean-up wizard misses, giving me 17.0 GB used on C:/ and 10.8 GB available... and did a "reset this PC" taking it all back to square one with no reset point to revert back to... And delete ALL other programs it will let me delete... I don't have NOTHING on there except the fucking Windows... And I made sure the recylce bin is empty too...

And when I start the Win 10 upgrade assistant, IT TELLS ME EVERYTHING IS OK...
The CPU is OK and the RAM is OK and the hard drive space (10.8 GB available) is OK...

And then I sit there and wait while it downloads...

And then I sit there and wait while it installs...

And I sit and wait some more because it's slower than molasses in January...

And then I get pissed-off & start cussing a blue streak because it mother-fucking bombs out after being 80% installed...

And it has the mother-fucking AUDACITY to tell me that it's because there's not enough disk space after telling me there WAS enough space when I started.

GODDAM BLOATWARE

Fuck Bill Gates...

Fuck Microsoft

Fuck Redmond Washington

The world would've been a much nicer place to live if they had just called it quits after DOS 6.0...

Gates has NEVER made a version of Windows that didn't SUCK.

Willie Green  posted on  2018-02-22   16:59:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Willie Green (#35)

And it has the mother-fucking AUDACITY to tell me that it's because there's not enough disk space after telling me there WAS enough space when I started.

Yes, it's never good when your OS takes up more than half of your storage media.

Is there any way that you can download the update you need on to a USB drive? Those are very cheap now for 16GB or 32GB.

I'm not sure you could even update that laptop's internal drive. An EMMC drive is unusual, not really an SSD, just a MMC data card soldiered to the motherboard.

I suppose you could try to ask HP support or search around their forum to see if anyone else has the same problem or found a solution. I went to look at the HP forum and found this thread:

HP: I am runnin W 10 ver.1511 and wish to upgrade to 1607, but it is no go , 12/15/16

HP is saying that the drive cannot be upgraded, it seems. They suggest wiping the drive entirely, installing Win10 fully from a USB drive. That's a lot of downloading and fussing.

That is just an insanely small boot drive. I suppose it must have made some sense to HP when they built it.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-02-22   21:13:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: Tooconservative, Willie Green (#36)

That is just an insanely small boot drive. I suppose it must have made some sense to HP when they built it.

Willie,you ain't going to like this,but the best use for your 10 year old laptop is helping build a landfill.

You can go to Amazon,Wal-Mart,Tiger Direct,or even to HP or Dell,and buy a brand spanking new laptop that is several times quicker,has 2 or 3 times as much storage space,and comes with Win 10 already loaded for less than 400 bucks. AND....,it is a registered software copy and your new laptop comes with a warranty.

I'm running a new gaming computer I bought from Amazon just before Christmas. My 10 year old HP desktop took a dump,and I had stuff for sale on the web and needed a computer right NOW to handle sales questions.I quickly figured out in was my video card that died,so thinking this would be the quickest solution,I called HP about a replacement video card. They wanted $665 for one. Since I could buy a new smoking hot gaming machine on Amazon right then with Win 10 Home already loaded for $716 delivered,that was a no brainer.

I do have the old HP back up and running as a backup computer and storage device,though. Did some research on current video cards,consulted Tom's Hardware page,and bought a new video card that obviously outperforms the original one for less than 65 bucks on sale at Amazon.

Still have a old HP 15 inch lap top that is probably 15 years old and in perfect working condition. It was my "road trip" computer,so it hardly ever got used. It's so slow it's painful to even wait for it to boot,so a couple of road trips ago I stopped at a Wal-Mart and bought a new HP 12 inch lap top that was quicker than my HP Desktop at home,weighs less than half of what the old 15 inch laptop weighs,and with the 12 inch keyboard is easy to use. IIRC,I bought it on sale for $144.

Do yourself a favor and just dump your old laptop and buy a new one with a 12 to 15 inch screen. It will come with Win 10 already loaded,and there is no way you can upgrade your old one to have as much storage or be as quick if you spent twice as much money to upgrade it.

Hell,if you want to save even more,go to the Dell or HP homepages and check on refurbished or "back from lease" laptops that are current production or only a year old. They even come with a warranty and in general they seem to be about half as expensive as the new model new if it isn't on sale.

If you can find "last years tech" on sale,mo betta. Last years tech is the sweet spot for most of us because you are getting something WAAAAY better than what you are replacing,for a fraction of the price of "this years tech". You even get a discount if you upgrade to Win 10 Pro from Win 10 Home.

It really is cheaper to just toss a computer over 5 years old away than it is to try to upgrade it,plus you get a warranty.

sneakypete  posted on  2018-03-10   15:00:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: sneakypete (#68)

Willie,you ain't going to like this,but the best use for your 10 year old laptop is helping build a landfill.

It ain't that old, pete...

If you can find "last years tech" on sale,mo betta. Last years tech is the sweet spot for most of us because you are getting something WAAAAY better than what you are replacing,for a fraction of the price of "this years tech".

That's exactly what I did just last year... (or maybe it was only 2 years ago)...

Anyway, I had just bought a HP Deskjet Printer/Scanner on sale after Christmas at Wally-World and was pissed off because I couldn't get the scanner to work with Linux and that's what I needed so I could scan some receipts for my health care insurance or some such bullshit... and my brother was out of town so I couldn't get him to scan it for me... So I went back to WallyWorld and bought the cheapest HP Windows notebook that they had.... and it must've been on-sale too because I know I paid less then what they're selling it for now..

Anyway, the point is, Wally-World is STILL SELLING the exact same notebook I bought last year (or maybe the year before) and the only problem with it is that the 32 GB C: drive is too small and can't be upgraded, and the goddam Windows 10 update is fucking bloatware that doesn't have the brains to take advantage of additional memory I have installed as drive D: or a USB stick...

But other than that, it's a nice little netbook and I'm not ready to junk it yet...

Hell, if I ever give up on Windoze, I can always convert it to linux and get another 5 years out of it... LOL!

Willie Green  posted on  2018-03-10   16:06:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: Willie Green (#73)

Even more Win10 update info to enjoy today.

Slashdot: Microsoft Admits It Updated Some Windows 10 Computers To Newest Build Despite Users Telling It Not To Do That

The admission came in a knowledge base article updated last week. Not all users of older Windows versions were forcibly updated, but only those whose machines were running Windows 10 v1703 (Creators Update). This is the version where Microsoft added special controls to the Windows Update setting section that allow users to pause OS updates in case they have driver or other hardware issues with the latest OS version. But according to reports, a Microsoft snafu ignored these settings and forcibly updated some users to Windows 10 v1709 (Fall Creators Update).

This reminds me of why I left the Windows ecosystem years back. It's some horrible thing like this all the time. It never ends. Exhausting.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-03-14   3:42:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: Tooconservative (#86)

It's some horrible thing like this all the time. It never ends. Exhausting.

Well the TurboTax website told me that it doesn't work well with Linux.... so I guess all the aggravation of updating my Win10 laptop was worthwhile afterall...

Willie Green  posted on  2018-04-15   9:04:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: Willie Green, Liberator (#90)

Ars, today:

The next big Windows 10 update, originally expected earlier this month until Microsoft delayed it at the last minute because of a bug causing blue screens of death, at last has an official name and a release date.

As expected, Microsoft is dropping its "themed" names for this update, instead calling it simply the Windows 10 April 2018 Update, with the version number 1803. It'll be available to download manually from April 30, just scraping into April. Broader distribution through Windows Update will start on the next Patch Tuesday: May 8.

Just as was the case with past updates, those installing it through Windows Update shouldn't expect to receive the update immediately; Microsoft rolls each update out in phases, checking for incompatibilities and other problems, before opening the floodgates and offering the upgrade to everyone. Microsoft stepped up the pace of this rollout with the last update, which saw it peak at more than 92 percent of Windows 10 systems.

There is also a new version of Win10 that is called Windows 10 Lean (informally). It will be about 2GB less in size and will omit some stuff (like the Registry Editor!). I have no idea if you would even qualify to install that version though.

I'd suggest that this April 30 update is the last one you should try to install on such a tiny SSD.

Anyway, I said I'd flag you when we found out the release date so now you know and can decide if you want to do a final update of your Win10 on your tiny SSD drive.

If you update now, you're good to go for (probably) another two years with major packages like Office or TurboTax or antivirus programs or whatnot.

You might start watching the HP forums to find out if others with your exact make/model have successfully installed this update. You don't really want to be the first kid on the block.

Tooconservative  posted on  2018-04-27   19:32:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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