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Historical
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Title: We Were Soldiers
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: Nov 12, 2017
Author: Mark Steyn
Post Date: 2017-11-12 07:18:54 by tpaine
Keywords: None
Views: 3384
Comments: 54

We Were Soldiers

by Mark Steyn

November 11, 2017

On "Fox & Friends" this morning, reacting to the live footage of President Trump in Hanoi, I talked about the Vietnam war's domestic impact on the American psyche. It took many decades for that to change, and this Veterans Day movie pick is one of the cultural artifacts of that evolution in perception - a film about soldiering that wears its allegiance in its very title. It was released about six months after 9/11, in the spring of 2002, and in that sense is a movie about an old war seen through the lens of a new one.

The best thing about We Were Soldiers is how bad it is. I don't mean "bad" in the sense that it's written and directed by Randall Wallace, screenwriter of Braveheart (which won Oscars for pretty much everything except its screenplay, which was not overlooked without reason) and Pearl Harbor (whose plonking dialogue has been dwelt on previously in this space). Mr Wallace is as reliably uninspired as you can get. And yet it serves him well here. Pearl Harbor was terrible, but it was professionally terrible, its lame dialogue and cookie- cutter characters and butt-numbingly obvious emotional manipulation skillfully woven together into state-of-the-art Hollywood product. By contrast, in its best moments, We Were Soldiers feels very unHollywoody, as if it's a film not just about soldiers, but made by soldiers - or at any rate by someone who cares more about capturing the spirit of soldiery than about making a cool movie. It's the very opposite of Steven Spielberg's fluid ballet of carnage in Saving Private Ryan, and yet, in its stiffness and squareness, it manages to be moving and dignified in the way that real veterans of hellish battles often are.

This is all the more remarkable considering that it's about the first big engagement of the Vietnam war, in the Ia Drang valley for three days and nights of November 1965. In those days, the word "Vietnam" had barely registered with the American public and the US participation still came under the evasive heading of "advisors". In essence, the 1st Batallion of the 7th Cavalry walked - or helicoptered - into an ambush and, despite being outnumbered five to one by the enemy, managed to extricate themselves. Colonel Hal Moore, the commanding officer of the AirCav hotshots, and Joe Galloway, a UPI reporter who was in the thick of the battle for two days, later wrote a book - a terrific read. That's the source material from which Wallace has made his movie, with Mel Gibson as Moore and Barry Pepper as Galloway.

We Were Soldiers opens with a brisk, unsparing prelude - a massacre of French forces in the very same valley, 11 years earlier. Then we're off to Fort Benning, Georgia a decade later, where Colonel Moore and his grizzled old Sergeant-Major, Basil Plumley (Sam Elliott), are training youngsters for a new kind of cavalry. "We will ride into battle and this will be our horse," announces Moore, as a chopper flies past on cue. Basil Plumley, incidentally, is not in the least bit plummy or Basil-esque. He's the hard-case to Moore's Harvard man, a fairly predictable social tension, at least to those BBC comedy fans who treasure the "Dad's Army" inversion, with lower middle-class Arthur Lowe and his posh sergeant John LeMesurier.

Wallace turns a great book into a clunky film, and at first it seems as if he's doing the usual adapter's shtick of taking a vivid real-life story and shaving all the edges off to fit the usual clichés. The Fort Benning scenes become incredibly irritating in their bland gee-whizzery. There's always some kid around to prompt Mel Gibson to wax philosophical, as when his five-year-old cute-as-a-button daughter asks him, "Daddy, what's a war?"

Meanwhile, Mrs Moore (Madeleine Stowe) serves as den mother to the army wives, clustered around the living room like a convention of 1960s sitcom spouses. One of them is puzzled because she's just been into town and discovered that the local laundromat won't let her wash her coloreds (there's a sign in the window saying "Whites Only"). As in Pearl Harbor, the clothes and hairdos look just right, but the characters and emotional moment feel phony.

But once Mel & Co hit 'Nam, We Were Soldiers lives up to its title, as if happy to have its studio-mandated soppy-girly scenes behind it. At the time of its release, it was fascinating to watch the hasty and not entirely voluntary evolution of the Hollywood war movie post-September 11th. You'll recall the moment in Saving Private Ryan when Tom Hanks says, in all seriousness, that maybe saving Private Ryan will be the one good thing to come out of this lousy war. Hollywood still can't bring itself to be patriotic, to fight for a cause, so in the modern war movie, detached from the morality of the cause, military values - honor, courage, comradeship - exist in a vacuum, the soldier's professionalism its own raison d'être.

That's a problem dramatically, but it's an amazing transformation nevertheless. A Vietnam movie like this would have been unthinkable 20 or 30 years ago, or at any time since John Wayne made The Green Berets. This is a film where soldiers lie burned and bleeding and say "I'm glad I could die for my country" without a trace of Altmanesque irony or Oliver Stoned mockery.

Perhaps the scene that sums up what changed - if only in that brief period of post-9/11 national unity - is the moment when Joe Galloway's fellow members of the press corps are choppered in after the battle. Galloway himself has been transformed by what he's experienced: he understands now, he gets it. Meanwhile, they cluster around Colonel Moore asking the usual idiot how-do-you-feel questions: "How do you feel about the loss of your men, sir? Have you notified their families?" In this film, soldiers are intense, heroic, highly skilled - and the media are a bunch of droning boneheads in safari suits. Who'd have thought it? Considering that for the previous three decades the press congratulated themselves for being the real heroes of Vietnam - getting the truth back to the American people, etc - this scene seems almost heresy.

Mel Gibson? Oh, he's fine, if you make allowances for the wandering southern accent. The real problem is the characterizations of his men, whom Wallace completely fails to distinguish from one another. That's a pity. One of the reasons Colonel Moore wrote his book was to memorialize as individuals, as personalities, the men under his command. It's well worth reading.


Poster Comment:

One of the best war films, imo...

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 46.

#1. To: tpaine (#0)

We Were Soldiers

Damn good movie

GrandIsland  posted on  2017-11-12   8:24:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: GrandIsland (#1)

" Damn good movie "

Yes it is !!!

I rate it with Band of Brothers, and Saving Private Ryan !! Don't particularly like Tom Hanks, but SPR was a very good movie !

Stoner  posted on  2017-11-12   9:08:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Stoner (#2) (Edited)

I rate it with Band of Brothers, and Saving Private Ryan !!

I'm still a big fan of Platoon. Those other movies were great movies as well. Full metal jacket was also a good flick.

As far as We we're soldiers... I admired the message the movie put forward. It was how I policed. Anytime my subordinates had it tough on a call or detail (danger, understaffing, complexity or even just the weather)... when possible, I tried to be the first person on the scene and the last to leave... and it was important to me not to micromanage in doing so. It's important to let your officers make decisions and find a way to work together.

Not sure about the military, but these new millennial officers would never work by that ideal. It's all about them. They're the most important person they know.

GrandIsland  posted on  2017-11-12   9:21:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: GrandIsland (#3)

" It's all about them. They're the most important person they know. "

In my day, that was the way it was with most, not all, but most 04 up. The officer corp then was very political !! I would suspect it is worse now.

Stoner  posted on  2017-11-12   9:43:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Stoner (#4)

In my day, that was the way it was with most, not all, but most 04 up. The officer corp then was very political !! I would suspect it is worse now.

It was definitely that way in the conventional army in VN.

Remember that scene in the movie Hamburger Hill,where the 101'st Abn were getting shot all to hell while the commanding General flew around at 2,000 feet in his observation helicopter to "direct the assault",and starts giving hell to the 17 year old now operating the radio who tells him his CO has been killed and so has his platoon sgt,and he is crying and doesn't know what to do? The General called him everything but a cowardly rabid dog,and basically told him to get his shit together and organize the survivors and assault the hilltop?

I was the guy that came up on the command frequency and gave the General (IIRC,his call sign was Black Jack,which always led me to suspect that General Pershing was an ancestor) a ration of shit for being a shitty leader and a coward because "If you had any balls you would land your goddamn helicopter at the base of that hill and lead the charge yourself,instead of flying around and talking shit to a terrified 17 year old from the safety of being 2000 feet in the air!"?

I thought the MoFo was going to stroke out,and hoping he would. He spit and sputtered and demanded "Who is this? I will have you court-martialed,etc,etc,etc!"

It didn't get any better for him when I told him "You don't know who I am,do you,MoFo? Why not land and come looking for me?"and then laughing at him as he spit and sputtered some more.

At that time I was on a mountaintop in Laos that we used as a radio relay site for our recon and hatchet force teams running missions in Laos. We had no teams in trouble at that time,so I was wandering through the frequencies with a spare radio to ease the boredom,and hit on their conversation.

Evidently the USAF daytime command ship (I THINK it's call sign was Dusty during the daytime) had been listening in too,and he cut in and told me by call sign (Leghorn) that I should get off that freq and let the General alone. I could hear the laughter in his voice as he said it,though. He was even kind enough to contact me on the regular SOG push so the 101st General could not learn my call sign or find out who I was. I am not sure if it was true or not,but was told that aircraft was commanded by a Air Force General. What I know for a fact is that when we contacted them and told them we need air cover NOW,we always got air cover NOW. Anything and everything from A1 Skyraiders,to jet fighter-bombers,to Spooky gun ships. Good MoFo's,one and all.I can honestly say they are one reason I survived. The USAF saved my ass more than once.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-11-12   10:41:44 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: sneakypete (#13)

I was the guy that came up on the command frequency and gave the General (IIRC,his call sign was Black Jack,which always led me to suspect that General Pershing was an ancestor) a ration of shit for being a shitty leader and a coward because "If you had any balls you would land your goddamn helicopter at the base of that hill and lead the charge yourself,instead of flying around and talking shit to a terrified 17 year old from the safety of being 2000 feet in the air!"?

I thought the MoFo was going to stroke out,and hoping he would. He spit and sputtered and demanded "Who is this? I will have you court-martialed,etc,etc,etc!"

It didn't get any better for him when I told him "You don't know who I am,do you,MoFo? Why not land and come looking for me?"and then laughing at him as he spit and sputtered some more.

Some wild sh*t. Dude, you were certifiable. Lol.

Seems to me you could write a book. A different one than what we've seen. Ever consider it?

Liberator  posted on  2017-11-12   10:52:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Liberator, Y'ALL, sneakypete (#18)

sneakypete --- I was the guy that came up on the command frequency and gave the General (IIRC,his call sign was Black Jack,which always led me to suspect that General Pershing was an ancestor) a ration of shit for being a shitty leader and a coward ---

Seems to me you could write a book. A different one than what we've seen. Ever consider it? --- Liberator

I'll second that idea, pete...

tpaine  posted on  2017-11-12   11:48:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: tpaine (#20)

I'll second that idea, pete...

Can't even write more than two sentences here now. AKA seems to have me restricted.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-11-13   9:57:26 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: sneakypete, Y'ALL, (#30) (Edited)

Can't even write more than two sentences here now. AKA seems to have me restricted.

I'd bet I'm not alone in wondering what in hell is AKAs problem. --- Why he's obsessed about you promoting the homo agenda baffles me.

Weird...

Just noticed that I had written. --- I enlisted in Jan, 1958. --- Make that Jan, 1955...

tpaine  posted on  2017-11-13   10:20:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: tpaine, sneakypete, A K A Stone (#33)

I'd bet I'm not alone in wondering what in hell is AKAs problem. --- Why he's obsessed about you promoting the homo agenda baffles me.

Weird...

Odd. I think it's weird TO PROMOTE or be neutral about a gay agenda that is insidious, perverse and badly corrupting our youth and culture.

Maybe it's just a coincidence -- both of you guys are atheists, right?

Liberator  posted on  2017-11-13   10:36:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Liberator (#34) (Edited)

I think it's weird TO PROMOTE or be neutral about a gay agenda that is insidious, perverse and badly corrupting our youth and culture.

Maybe it's just a coincidence -- both of you guys are atheists, right?

It's REALLY weird that you think I'm neutral or promoting the gay agenda. I don't approve of that lifestyle, -- in fact at times I've actively made recruiters of the life aware of that, -- but I'm not homophobic either.

I'm agnostic, not athiest. -- Big difference. -- Feel free to think what you like about religion, but I'd prefer if you stay out of my face about it.

BTW, -- I previously phrased this sentence awkwardly, --- 'Why he's obsessed about you promoting the homo agenda baffles me.'

I should have written, -- Why he's obsessed about you (supposedly) promoting the homo agenda baffles me.

tpaine  posted on  2017-11-13   11:29:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: tpaine, A K A Stone, sneakypete (#38) (Edited)

It's REALLY weird that you think I'm neutral or promoting the gay agenda. I don't approve of that lifestyle, -- in fact at times I've actively made recruiters of the life aware of that, -- but I'm not homophobic either.

You to Pete:

"I'd bet I'm not alone in wondering what in hell is AKAs problem. --- Why he's obsessed about you promoting the homo agenda baffles me."

Frankly, Pete has always supported homos and their agenda.

(btw, I will not accept the propagandist term, "homophobic" or any of the "phobic" suffixes designed to label, target, and shut-down those who oppose the various positions of destructive, perverse insanity.)

That said, do you actually fear the notion that one might suspect that you oppose the Gay Agenda? OR homosexuality in general? (Not that you are expected to be aggressive in public about it.)

I'm agnostic, not athiest. -- Big difference. -- Feel free to think what you like about religion, but I'd prefer if you stay out of my face about it.

"Stay out of my face about it"? What's that even mean?

Atheist/Agnostic -- basically the same thing. Whatever.

I should have written, -- Why he's obsessed about you (supposedly) promoting the homo agenda baffles me.

I'm not sure I understand your above statement. EDIT: Wait I do. It's with respect to Pete and Stone. Never mind.

HERE is the reason for an aggressive stance against militant homosexuality:

Homofascists in High Places with an Agenda have taken control of major institutions, are corrupting the minds and souls of the innocent, the young, and weak-minded; and are attempting to indoctrinate and criminalize those who openly oppose their declaration of war on everything right, normal, and decent. For starters. And WE are tired of it.

Liberator  posted on  2017-11-13   12:59:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Liberator (#39)

Homofascists in High Places with an Agenda have taken control of major institutions, are corrupting the minds and souls of the innocent, the young, and weak-minded; and are attempting to indoctrinate and criminalize those who openly oppose their declaration of war on everything right, normal, and decent. For starters. And WE are tired of it.

Atheist/Agnostic -- basically the same thing. Whatever.

Stay out of my face about it"? What's that even mean?

I'm agnostic, not athiest. -- Big difference. -- Feel free to think what you like about religion, (or most ANY damn thing) but I'd prefer if you stay out of my face about it.

It means I don't like to get aggressive about it, but I have in the past, and will again if pressed.

I'd suggest you calm yourself about calling people atheists. It's a nasty word in my opinion. -- And most of the WE that I know, are tired of it.

tpaine  posted on  2017-11-13   13:30:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: tpaine (#40) (Edited)

I'd suggest you calm yourself about calling people atheists. It's a nasty word in my opinion. -- And most of the WE that I know, are tired of it.

I'm very calm. But you obviously aren't.

Since when is the truth "nasty"?? Your bristling overreaction is par for the Atheist OR Agnostic course.

Yes, WE I can tell your "We" brethren are "tired of it"; The recent not-so-little incident in SUTHERLAND SPRINGS, Texas reinforced what happens when militant Atheists get "tired of it." Same thing has happened elsewhere. As in that OTHER Christian church where a congregation of Black Church-goers in Charleston, SC was shot up by another Atheist.

Should the rest of us expect much more because your ilk feel dissed or "tired of it"?

Liberator  posted on  2017-11-13   13:52:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: Liberator (#41)

Blaming church shootings on 'atheists' is the religious equivalent of racebaiting, imho.. You know damn well it came out that the Texas crazy was after his wife's family.. And I have no idea what caused the black church shooting. -- It sure wasn't caused by an agnostic.

You really do need to calm yourself.. Religious fervor always tends to look a bit crazy.

Any comments?

I see you're replying to me this morning on another subject. Does this mean you've accepted the fact that my agnosticism has nothing to do with atheistic fanatics?

tpaine  posted on  2017-11-15   13:40:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: tpaine (#44) (Edited)

Blaming church shootings on 'atheists' is the religious equivalent of racebaiting, imho.. You know damn well it came out that the Texas crazy was after his wife's family.. And I have no idea what caused the black church shooting. -- It sure wasn't caused by an agnostic.

I partially blame it on what's become an un-holy hostile crusade on the part of militant Atheists/Agnostics.

My opinion is based on irrefutable facts. That said, I am sensitive to the notion that folks like you can't help but take my opinion on the matter as an personal indictment -- but it shouldn't be.

Look -- ALL these shooters are "crazy." BUT they also share many of the same philosophies and hatreds. This same anti-Christian, anti-conservatve, anti-White bigotry and hatred has been encouraged by the MSM, entertainment outlets, and talking heads, 24/7. I don't have to tell you the obvious....

Simply and unfortunately, the liberal-progressive establishment are rabidly anti-Christian...as well as anti-Conservative, anti-White, anti-American MSM. These institutions have preyed upon the weak and cray-cray, indoctrinated them, convinced them that "THE ENEMY" are Christian, White, and the "Privileged."

The perp in the black church shooting...occurred in a CHURCH. What else needs to be said? The MSM narrative was "anti-Black" and NOT "anti-Christian." I construed the slaughter as "anti-Christian."

You really do need to calm yourself.. Religious fervor always tends to look a bit crazy.

When Christian groups or individuals start publicly calling for the killing of Atheists, then DO IT, THEN talk from a position of impartiality, friend. For now, the Media, Academia, Leftist social media, and "Entertainment" outlets have ALL targeted Christians for hate, hostility, and revenge.

I see you're replying to me this morning on another subject. Does this mean you've accepted the fact that my agnosticism has nothing to do with atheistic fanatics?

I am not conflating your beliefs, your personal ethics and morals with nutty Atheists-Agnotsics. Only the fact that Agnostics are Atheists on any given day. And that militant Atheists and Agnostics are indeed hostiles to varying degrees, again, depending on the day and conversation.

Liberator  posted on  2017-11-15   14:22:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: Liberator (#45)

I see you're replying to me this morning on another subject. Does this mean you've accepted the fact that my agnosticism has nothing to do with atheistic fanatics?

I am not conflating your beliefs, your personal ethics and morals with nutty Atheists-Agnotsics. Only the fact that Agnostics are Atheists on any given day. And that militant Atheists and Agnostics are indeed hostiles to varying degrees, again, depending on the day and conversation.

Weird, because to me, you are conflating my beliefs, my personal ethics and morals with nutty Atheists.

It is NOT a "fact that Agnostics are Atheists on any given day".

I have no idea who's been telling you these 'facts', but they are divisive opinions, of the worse sort. --- Very unchristian, imho..

tpaine  posted on  2017-11-15   15:06:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 46.

#47. To: tpaine (#46)

It is NOT a "fact that Agnostics are Atheists on any given day".

By definition, an Agnostic believes there may or MAY NOT believe in God. OR "doesn't know."

I have no idea who's been telling you these 'facts', but they are divisive opinions, of the worse sort. --- Very unchristian, imho..

Sorry you find it difficult to understand this Christian's perspective.

"Fundies" are often derided for their honest opinion. AND faith and un-compromising beliefs. And occasionally for our "un-Christian" beliefs. BY Atheists and Agnostics. Ironic, no?

Liberator  posted on  2017-11-15 15:18:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 46.

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