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Historical
See other Historical Articles

Title: We Were Soldiers
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: Nov 12, 2017
Author: Mark Steyn
Post Date: 2017-11-12 07:18:54 by tpaine
Keywords: None
Views: 224
Comments: 54

We Were Soldiers

by Mark Steyn

November 11, 2017

On "Fox & Friends" this morning, reacting to the live footage of President Trump in Hanoi, I talked about the Vietnam war's domestic impact on the American psyche. It took many decades for that to change, and this Veterans Day movie pick is one of the cultural artifacts of that evolution in perception - a film about soldiering that wears its allegiance in its very title. It was released about six months after 9/11, in the spring of 2002, and in that sense is a movie about an old war seen through the lens of a new one.

The best thing about We Were Soldiers is how bad it is. I don't mean "bad" in the sense that it's written and directed by Randall Wallace, screenwriter of Braveheart (which won Oscars for pretty much everything except its screenplay, which was not overlooked without reason) and Pearl Harbor (whose plonking dialogue has been dwelt on previously in this space). Mr Wallace is as reliably uninspired as you can get. And yet it serves him well here. Pearl Harbor was terrible, but it was professionally terrible, its lame dialogue and cookie- cutter characters and butt-numbingly obvious emotional manipulation skillfully woven together into state-of-the-art Hollywood product. By contrast, in its best moments, We Were Soldiers feels very unHollywoody, as if it's a film not just about soldiers, but made by soldiers - or at any rate by someone who cares more about capturing the spirit of soldiery than about making a cool movie. It's the very opposite of Steven Spielberg's fluid ballet of carnage in Saving Private Ryan, and yet, in its stiffness and squareness, it manages to be moving and dignified in the way that real veterans of hellish battles often are.

This is all the more remarkable considering that it's about the first big engagement of the Vietnam war, in the Ia Drang valley for three days and nights of November 1965. In those days, the word "Vietnam" had barely registered with the American public and the US participation still came under the evasive heading of "advisors". In essence, the 1st Batallion of the 7th Cavalry walked - or helicoptered - into an ambush and, despite being outnumbered five to one by the enemy, managed to extricate themselves. Colonel Hal Moore, the commanding officer of the AirCav hotshots, and Joe Galloway, a UPI reporter who was in the thick of the battle for two days, later wrote a book - a terrific read. That's the source material from which Wallace has made his movie, with Mel Gibson as Moore and Barry Pepper as Galloway.

We Were Soldiers opens with a brisk, unsparing prelude - a massacre of French forces in the very same valley, 11 years earlier. Then we're off to Fort Benning, Georgia a decade later, where Colonel Moore and his grizzled old Sergeant-Major, Basil Plumley (Sam Elliott), are training youngsters for a new kind of cavalry. "We will ride into battle and this will be our horse," announces Moore, as a chopper flies past on cue. Basil Plumley, incidentally, is not in the least bit plummy or Basil-esque. He's the hard-case to Moore's Harvard man, a fairly predictable social tension, at least to those BBC comedy fans who treasure the "Dad's Army" inversion, with lower middle-class Arthur Lowe and his posh sergeant John LeMesurier.

Wallace turns a great book into a clunky film, and at first it seems as if he's doing the usual adapter's shtick of taking a vivid real-life story and shaving all the edges off to fit the usual clichés. The Fort Benning scenes become incredibly irritating in their bland gee-whizzery. There's always some kid around to prompt Mel Gibson to wax philosophical, as when his five-year-old cute-as-a-button daughter asks him, "Daddy, what's a war?"

Meanwhile, Mrs Moore (Madeleine Stowe) serves as den mother to the army wives, clustered around the living room like a convention of 1960s sitcom spouses. One of them is puzzled because she's just been into town and discovered that the local laundromat won't let her wash her coloreds (there's a sign in the window saying "Whites Only"). As in Pearl Harbor, the clothes and hairdos look just right, but the characters and emotional moment feel phony.

But once Mel & Co hit 'Nam, We Were Soldiers lives up to its title, as if happy to have its studio-mandated soppy-girly scenes behind it. At the time of its release, it was fascinating to watch the hasty and not entirely voluntary evolution of the Hollywood war movie post-September 11th. You'll recall the moment in Saving Private Ryan when Tom Hanks says, in all seriousness, that maybe saving Private Ryan will be the one good thing to come out of this lousy war. Hollywood still can't bring itself to be patriotic, to fight for a cause, so in the modern war movie, detached from the morality of the cause, military values - honor, courage, comradeship - exist in a vacuum, the soldier's professionalism its own raison d'être.

That's a problem dramatically, but it's an amazing transformation nevertheless. A Vietnam movie like this would have been unthinkable 20 or 30 years ago, or at any time since John Wayne made The Green Berets. This is a film where soldiers lie burned and bleeding and say "I'm glad I could die for my country" without a trace of Altmanesque irony or Oliver Stoned mockery.

Perhaps the scene that sums up what changed - if only in that brief period of post-9/11 national unity - is the moment when Joe Galloway's fellow members of the press corps are choppered in after the battle. Galloway himself has been transformed by what he's experienced: he understands now, he gets it. Meanwhile, they cluster around Colonel Moore asking the usual idiot how-do-you-feel questions: "How do you feel about the loss of your men, sir? Have you notified their families?" In this film, soldiers are intense, heroic, highly skilled - and the media are a bunch of droning boneheads in safari suits. Who'd have thought it? Considering that for the previous three decades the press congratulated themselves for being the real heroes of Vietnam - getting the truth back to the American people, etc - this scene seems almost heresy.

Mel Gibson? Oh, he's fine, if you make allowances for the wandering southern accent. The real problem is the characterizations of his men, whom Wallace completely fails to distinguish from one another. That's a pity. One of the reasons Colonel Moore wrote his book was to memorialize as individuals, as personalities, the men under his command. It's well worth reading.


Poster Comment:

One of the best war films, imo...

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#1. To: tpaine (#0)

We Were Soldiers

Damn good movie

I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح

GrandIsland  posted on  2017-11-12   8:24:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: GrandIsland (#1)

" Damn good movie "

Yes it is !!!

I rate it with Band of Brothers, and Saving Private Ryan !! Don't particularly like Tom Hanks, but SPR was a very good movie !

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.

Never Pick A Fight With An Old Man He Will Just Shoot You He Can't Afford To Get Hurt

"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." (Will Rogers)

Stoner  posted on  2017-11-12   9:08:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Stoner (#2) (Edited)

I rate it with Band of Brothers, and Saving Private Ryan !!

I'm still a big fan of Platoon. Those other movies were great movies as well. Full metal jacket was also a good flick.

As far as We we're soldiers... I admired the message the movie put forward. It was how I policed. Anytime my subordinates had it tough on a call or detail (danger, understaffing, complexity or even just the weather)... when possible, I tried to be the first person on the scene and the last to leave... and it was important to me not to micromanage in doing so. It's important to let your officers make decisions and find a way to work together.

Not sure about the military, but these new millennial officers would never work by that ideal. It's all about them. They're the most important person they know.

I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح

GrandIsland  posted on  2017-11-12   9:21:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: GrandIsland (#3)

" It's all about them. They're the most important person they know. "

In my day, that was the way it was with most, not all, but most 04 up. The officer corp then was very political !! I would suspect it is worse now.

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.

Never Pick A Fight With An Old Man He Will Just Shoot You He Can't Afford To Get Hurt

"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." (Will Rogers)

Stoner  posted on  2017-11-12   9:43:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Stoner (#2)

I rate it with Band of Brothers, and Saving Private Ryan !!

And Blackhawk Down.

misterwhite  posted on  2017-11-12   10:08:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: tpaine (#0)

We Were Soldiers opens with a brisk, unsparing prelude - a massacre of French forces in the very same valley, 11 years earlier. Then we're off to Fort Benning, Georgia a decade later, where Colonel Moore and his grizzled old Sergeant-Major, Basil Plumley (Sam Elliott), are training youngsters for a new kind of cavalry. "We will ride into battle and this will be our horse," announces Moore, as a chopper flies past on cue. Basil Plumley, incidentally, is not in the least bit plummy or Basil-esque. He's the hard-case to Moore's Harvard man, a fairly predictable social tension, at least to those BBC comedy fans who treasure the "Dad's Army" inversion, with lower middle-class Arthur Lowe and his posh sergeant John LeMesurier.

I copied and pasted this to highlight how full of shit Mark Steyn is and how little he knows about the US Army,or life in the US Army for career soldiers.

SGM Basil Plumley was not and is not a "Hollywood character actor",despite the implication he was portrayed as some sort of "enlisted scum counterpoint to the Harvard Educated Officer and Gentleman". I personally know someone that served with SGM Plumley in one of the Airborne Divisions before the VN war,back when Plumley was a mere platoon Sgt,and he said that Elliot "absolutely NAILED Plumley"

IIRC,Plumley was even a paid advisor on the set,and was well aware of how he was being portrayed,and had no problems with it.

Steyn,being the outsider shithead alleged "intellectual" even has the first part of the movie 180 degrees off because it's purpose was to show the movie audiences what life was like in the peacetime army for career soldiers and their familes BEFORE the VN War began,so they would identify the soldiers and their wives as real people with real people problems and lives,and not some sort of cardboard cutout Hollywood characters. In FACT,that was the part of the movie that impressed me the most. Guess what,Bubba? Soldiers and their wives are also people. So are their children.

We Were Soldiers Once is the best movie that has ever been made about the conventional army as it evolves from a peacetime army to a wartime army that has ever been made. As for Plumley,he might seem unique to most of you,but he was pretty typical of the old WW-2 and Korean War senior airborne infantry NCO's I was running into when I enlisted in early 1964. I actually laughed out loud in delight as Gibson was introducing himself and Plumley to the officers and NCO's of the then-new 1st Air Cav,and said "SGM Plumley and myself are airborne,and one thing you are going to discover is airborne soldiers LOVE to run!" No truer words have ever been uttered in a movie.

And the battle scenes were the most realistic I have ever seen. Especially the nighttime battle scenes in the jungle,where people where shooting by the light and shadows thrown by flares. Maybe even a little TOO realistic because I was seriously amped when I left the movie.

The best movie ever about what it's like to be in Special Forces in battle is Black Hawk Down. I am really,REALLY hoping that wasn't an accurate depiction of the US Army Ranger commanders,though.

Both are excellent movies and I recommend them to anyone without reservation.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-11-12   10:13:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Stoner (#2)

I rate it with Band of Brothers, and Saving Private Ryan !!

I rate it higher. I loved Band of Brothers because I had a relative that was a Platoon Sgt in the 101's during WW-2,but it's not fair to compare a truly excellent multi-episode series with an actual movie. It's like trying to compare Lonesome Dove with Tombstone.

Black Hawk Down rates right up there with We Were Brothers,but since it was a Ranger operation that was basically a raid that was supported by Special Forces troops out wandering around on their own,it's unfair to both it and We Were Soldiers to compare them. Apples and oranges.

I will say I own them both,though.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-11-12   10:20:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: tpaine (#0)

One of the Top 3 war movies IMO.

1) Patton
2) Saving Private Ryan
3) We Were Soldiers

I look for inspiration, enlightenment, or virtue in movies. These three each had those components.

Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.

Liberator  posted on  2017-11-12   10:21:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Stoner (#2)

Yup, Band of Brothers...

THAT series of movies was THE best, hands down.

Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.

Liberator  posted on  2017-11-12   10:23:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: sneakypete, Stoner (#7) (Edited)

Black Hawk Down was intense.

Excellent flick.

I'd forgotten about American Sniper as well.

Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.

Liberator  posted on  2017-11-12   10:24:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: tpaine, sneakypete, redleghunter, all (#0)

Now do we include 'Braveheart' in this category?

If so, I'm then extending my list to 'Rob Roy' -- even though it wasn't a "war" flick.

Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.

Liberator  posted on  2017-11-12   10:29:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: GrandIsland (#3)

I'm still a big fan of Platoon. Those other movies were great movies as well. Full metal jacket was also a good flick.

Yup. Platoon was excellent, as was Full Metal Jacket (although for the latter you have to be in the mood. The jarhead suicide is a major buzz-kill.)

Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.

Liberator  posted on  2017-11-12   10:31:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Stoner (#4)

In my day, that was the way it was with most, not all, but most 04 up. The officer corp then was very political !! I would suspect it is worse now.

It was definitely that way in the conventional army in VN.

Remember that scene in the movie Hamburger Hill,where the 101'st Abn were getting shot all to hell while the commanding General flew around at 2,000 feet in his observation helicopter to "direct the assault",and starts giving hell to the 17 year old now operating the radio who tells him his CO has been killed and so has his platoon sgt,and he is crying and doesn't know what to do? The General called him everything but a cowardly rabid dog,and basically told him to get his shit together and organize the survivors and assault the hilltop?

I was the guy that came up on the command frequency and gave the General (IIRC,his call sign was Black Jack,which always led me to suspect that General Pershing was an ancestor) a ration of shit for being a shitty leader and a coward because "If you had any balls you would land your goddamn helicopter at the base of that hill and lead the charge yourself,instead of flying around and talking shit to a terrified 17 year old from the safety of being 2000 feet in the air!"?

I thought the MoFo was going to stroke out,and hoping he would. He spit and sputtered and demanded "Who is this? I will have you court-martialed,etc,etc,etc!"

It didn't get any better for him when I told him "You don't know who I am,do you,MoFo? Why not land and come looking for me?"and then laughing at him as he spit and sputtered some more.

At that time I was on a mountaintop in Laos that we used as a radio relay site for our recon and hatchet force teams running missions in Laos. We had no teams in trouble at that time,so I was wandering through the frequencies with a spare radio to ease the boredom,and hit on their conversation.

Evidently the USAF daytime command ship (I THINK it's call sign was Dusty during the daytime) had been listening in too,and he cut in and told me by call sign (Leghorn) that I should get off that freq and let the General alone. I could hear the laughter in his voice as he said it,though. He was even kind enough to contact me on the regular SOG push so the 101st General could not learn my call sign or find out who I was. I am not sure if it was true or not,but was told that aircraft was commanded by a Air Force General. What I know for a fact is that when we contacted them and told them we need air cover NOW,we always got air cover NOW. Anything and everything from A1 Skyraiders,to jet fighter-bombers,to Spooky gun ships. Good MoFo's,one and all.I can honestly say they are one reason I survived. The USAF saved my ass more than once.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-11-12   10:41:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Liberator (#11)

Now do we include 'Braveheart' in this category?

You can if you want,but I don't see how it relates to the US Military at war.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-11-12   10:44:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Liberator (#12)

Full metal jacket was also a good flick.

I thought it was almost cartoonish. Granted,I was never in the USMC,but I sincerely hope life in the USMC wasn't like that back then,or ever.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-11-12   10:46:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: sneakypete (#14)

I don't see how it [Braveheart] relates to the US Military at war.

It doesn't.

However the context IS still "war," tactics, honor, and courage.

Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.

Liberator  posted on  2017-11-12   10:47:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: sneakypete (#15)

I thought it was almost cartoonish. Granted,I was never in the USMC,but I sincerely hope life in the USMC wasn't like that back then,or ever.

I agree; Over the top for sure.

Might there have been DIs like that and the whole chaotic aftermath? Maybe. I don't have to tell you -- you saw it all.

Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.

Liberator  posted on  2017-11-12   10:49:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: sneakypete (#13)

I was the guy that came up on the command frequency and gave the General (IIRC,his call sign was Black Jack,which always led me to suspect that General Pershing was an ancestor) a ration of shit for being a shitty leader and a coward because "If you had any balls you would land your goddamn helicopter at the base of that hill and lead the charge yourself,instead of flying around and talking shit to a terrified 17 year old from the safety of being 2000 feet in the air!"?

I thought the MoFo was going to stroke out,and hoping he would. He spit and sputtered and demanded "Who is this? I will have you court-martialed,etc,etc,etc!"

It didn't get any better for him when I told him "You don't know who I am,do you,MoFo? Why not land and come looking for me?"and then laughing at him as he spit and sputtered some more.

Some wild sh*t. Dude, you were certifiable. Lol.

Seems to me you could write a book. A different one than what we've seen. Ever consider it?

Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.

Liberator  posted on  2017-11-12   10:52:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: sneakypete, Y'ALL (#6) (Edited)

We Were Soldiers Once is the best movie that has ever been made about the conventional army as it evolves from a peacetime army to a wartime army that has ever been made. As for Plumley,he might seem unique to most of you,but he was pretty typical of the old WW-2 and Korean War senior airborne infantry NCO's I was running into when I enlisted in early 1964.

I enlisted in Jan, 1958, went to jump school with the 11th at Ft. Campbell, before the Division went to Germany. -- Almost all our older sgts were WW-2 and Korean War senior airborne infantry NCO's.

Tough, no nonsense guys, but most were fair, and great soldiers. Same went for most of the older officers. Lots of the younger officers were full of themselves, though.

Ended up two years in Munich, with Co B, 502nd. Great duty, but I was glad to get out.. The petty politics of the peacetime army did me in.

tpaine  posted on  2017-11-12   11:41:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Liberator, Y'ALL, sneakypete (#18)

sneakypete --- I was the guy that came up on the command frequency and gave the General (IIRC,his call sign was Black Jack,which always led me to suspect that General Pershing was an ancestor) a ration of shit for being a shitty leader and a coward ---

Seems to me you could write a book. A different one than what we've seen. Ever consider it? --- Liberator

I'll second that idea, pete...

tpaine  posted on  2017-11-12   11:48:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: misterwhite (#5) (Edited)

" And Blackhawk Down. "

Yes, thanks for mentioning that. Blackhawk Down is an excellent movie ! Sad, but excellent ! Sorry for that omission, that was a grievous oversight on my part !!

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.

Never Pick A Fight With An Old Man He Will Just Shoot You He Can't Afford To Get Hurt

"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." (Will Rogers)

Stoner  posted on  2017-11-12   13:47:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Stoner (#21)

Sorry for that omission, that was a grievous oversight on my part !!

Nah. Can't get them all.

There are the two 2006 Clint Eastwood films, Flags of Our Fathers and Letters From Iwo Jima telling the story of the battle for the island from both sides.

Zulu was a great film. I liked Patton. I saw The Bridge on the River Kwai with my dad when it came out and it made a lasting impression. Das Boot (the original in German with English subtitles) is superb.

And I liked Edge of Tomorrow.

misterwhite  posted on  2017-11-12   14:20:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: tpaine (#0)

We Were Soldiers

Definately a top grade historically accurate movie. Plumly, in real life, was a legend in the army.

rlk  posted on  2017-11-12   17:53:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: tpaine (#0)

Great book and great movie.

Had the honor of briefly meeting General Moore after a presentation at the Command and General Staff College at Leavenworth in 2001. Just a few months before the movie was released.

redleghunter  posted on  2017-11-12   18:39:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: redleghunter, rlk, Y'ALL (#24)

Definately a top grade historically accurate movie. Plumly, in real life, was a legend in the army. --- rlk

Great book and great movie. Had the honor of briefly meeting General Moore after a presentation at the Command and General Staff College at Leavenworth in 2001. Just a few months before the movie was released. --- redleghunter

Never had the honor to meet either man..

I met a kid on a house I was building back in '68 who was in that battle with Moore, -- he was having a tough time working as an apprentice plumber because of his wounds. Lost track of him after that one job tho.. Always wondered how he made out...

tpaine  posted on  2017-11-12   19:43:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: tpaine (#0)

One of the best movies I ever saw! The other was "Hamburger Hill".

goldilucky  posted on  2017-11-12   21:52:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: goldilucky (#26)

One of the best movies I ever saw!

Me too. I've probably seen it half a dozen times, and hope to many more..

tpaine  posted on  2017-11-13   1:07:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Liberator (#17) (Edited)

Might there have been DIs like that and the whole chaotic aftermath? Maybe. I don't have to tell you -- you saw it all.

I know next to nothing about the USMC.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-11-13   9:52:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: tpaine (#19)

The petty politics of the peacetime army did me in.

I hear ya. If it hadn't been for finding SF,I seriously doubt I would have made it through the 1st enlistment without getting tossed out.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-11-13   9:56:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: tpaine (#20)

I'll second that idea, pete...

Can't even write more than two sentences here now. AKA seems to have me restricted.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-11-13   9:57:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: rlk (#23)

Plumly, in real life, was a legend in the army.

ANY kid that grows up with a name like Basil Plumley is going to end up being tough.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-11-13   10:03:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: redleghunter (#24)

Had the honor of briefly meeting General Moore after a presentation at the Command and General Staff College at Leavenworth in 2001. Just a few months before the movie was released.

I envy you that

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-11-13   10:05:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: sneakypete, Y'ALL, (#30) (Edited)

Can't even write more than two sentences here now. AKA seems to have me restricted.

I'd bet I'm not alone in wondering what in hell is AKAs problem. --- Why he's obsessed about you promoting the homo agenda baffles me.

Weird...

Just noticed that I had written. --- I enlisted in Jan, 1958. --- Make that Jan, 1955...

tpaine  posted on  2017-11-13   10:20:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: tpaine, sneakypete, A K A Stone (#33)

I'd bet I'm not alone in wondering what in hell is AKAs problem. --- Why he's obsessed about you promoting the homo agenda baffles me.

Weird...

Odd. I think it's weird TO PROMOTE or be neutral about a gay agenda that is insidious, perverse and badly corrupting our youth and culture.

Maybe it's just a coincidence -- both of you guys are atheists, right?

Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.

Liberator  posted on  2017-11-13   10:36:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: redleghunter (#24)

Had the honor of briefly meeting General Moore after a presentation at the Command and General Staff College at Leavenworth in 2001. Just a few months before the movie was released.

Sweet.

Yes, an extreme honor.

'We Were Soldiers' is one of the few DVDs I actually bought.

Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.

Liberator  posted on  2017-11-13   10:38:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: sneakypete (#28)

I know next to nothing about the USMC.

I was referring to what happened in the movie.

Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.

Liberator  posted on  2017-11-13   10:39:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: All (#36)

Synopsis:

In defense of honor and justice.

Excellent flick.

Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.

Liberator  posted on  2017-11-13   10:43:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Liberator (#34) (Edited)

I think it's weird TO PROMOTE or be neutral about a gay agenda that is insidious, perverse and badly corrupting our youth and culture.

Maybe it's just a coincidence -- both of you guys are atheists, right?

It's REALLY weird that you think I'm neutral or promoting the gay agenda. I don't approve of that lifestyle, -- in fact at times I've actively made recruiters of the life aware of that, -- but I'm not homophobic either.

I'm agnostic, not athiest. -- Big difference. -- Feel free to think what you like about religion, but I'd prefer if you stay out of my face about it.

BTW, -- I previously phrased this sentence awkwardly, --- 'Why he's obsessed about you promoting the homo agenda baffles me.'

I should have written, -- Why he's obsessed about you (supposedly) promoting the homo agenda baffles me.

tpaine  posted on  2017-11-13   11:29:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: tpaine, A K A Stone, sneakypete (#38) (Edited)

It's REALLY weird that you think I'm neutral or promoting the gay agenda. I don't approve of that lifestyle, -- in fact at times I've actively made recruiters of the life aware of that, -- but I'm not homophobic either.

You to Pete:

"I'd bet I'm not alone in wondering what in hell is AKAs problem. --- Why he's obsessed about you promoting the homo agenda baffles me."

Frankly, Pete has always supported homos and their agenda.

(btw, I will not accept the propagandist term, "homophobic" or any of the "phobic" suffixes designed to label, target, and shut-down those who oppose the various positions of destructive, perverse insanity.)

That said, do you actually fear the notion that one might suspect that you oppose the Gay Agenda? OR homosexuality in general? (Not that you are expected to be aggressive in public about it.)

I'm agnostic, not athiest. -- Big difference. -- Feel free to think what you like about religion, but I'd prefer if you stay out of my face about it.

"Stay out of my face about it"? What's that even mean?

Atheist/Agnostic -- basically the same thing. Whatever.

I should have written, -- Why he's obsessed about you (supposedly) promoting the homo agenda baffles me.

I'm not sure I understand your above statement. EDIT: Wait I do. It's with respect to Pete and Stone. Never mind.

HERE is the reason for an aggressive stance against militant homosexuality:

Homofascists in High Places with an Agenda have taken control of major institutions, are corrupting the minds and souls of the innocent, the young, and weak-minded; and are attempting to indoctrinate and criminalize those who openly oppose their declaration of war on everything right, normal, and decent. For starters. And WE are tired of it.

Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.

Liberator  posted on  2017-11-13   12:59:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Liberator (#39)

Homofascists in High Places with an Agenda have taken control of major institutions, are corrupting the minds and souls of the innocent, the young, and weak-minded; and are attempting to indoctrinate and criminalize those who openly oppose their declaration of war on everything right, normal, and decent. For starters. And WE are tired of it.

Atheist/Agnostic -- basically the same thing. Whatever.

Stay out of my face about it"? What's that even mean?

I'm agnostic, not athiest. -- Big difference. -- Feel free to think what you like about religion, (or most ANY damn thing) but I'd prefer if you stay out of my face about it.

It means I don't like to get aggressive about it, but I have in the past, and will again if pressed.

I'd suggest you calm yourself about calling people atheists. It's a nasty word in my opinion. -- And most of the WE that I know, are tired of it.

tpaine  posted on  2017-11-13   13:30:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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