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Title: Profile In Treason: The Inconceivable Evil Of John McCain—“Man Of Blood”
Source: The Unz Review
URL Source: http://www.unz.com/article/profile- ... l-of-john-mccain-man-of-blood/
Published: Oct 17, 2017
Author: James Kirkpatrick
Post Date: 2017-10-20 14:59:06 by Deckard
Keywords: None
Views: 5182
Comments: 87

There is no hatred more complete and no malevolence more fanatical than that held by the American political class for the American people. The commissar’s rage against the kulaks, the jihadist’s fury against the infidel, the inquisitor’s wrath against the unbeliever, all of this pales in comparison to the genocidal bloodlust Senators and Congressmen have against their own constituents. And even as they gleefully promote the outsourcing of jobs, the importation of cheap labor, and the ruthless extirpation of property, wealth and liberty, these shameless parasites demand their slaves die to export their filthy System all over the world.

The most contemptible and dangerous of these vermin is Senator John McCain. In a political career marked by near constant betrayal and hypocrisy, there are only two constants to his bloody career. The first is a passion for war, any war, for any reason, which can only be termed pathological. The second is the desire to replace the people of his own state and the voters of his own party.

Like a dying venomous snake, McCain is using his final moments to strike at President Trump and those who supported him.

In remarks gleefully repeated by the sociopathic controlled media, McCain simpered:

To fear the world we have organized and led for three-quarters of a century, to abandon the ideals we have advanced around the globe, to refuse the obligations of international leadership and our duty to remain ‘the last best hope of earth’ for the sake of some half-baked, spurious nationalism cooked up by people who would rather find scapegoats than solve problems is as unpatriotic as an attachment to any other tired dogma of the past that Americans consigned to the ash heap of history.

[Read John McCain’s Liberty Medal ceremony speech, Boston Globe, October 17, 2017]

It’s worth noting McCain gave his comments while accepting an award from…Joe Biden. Much like McCain’s “patriotism” consists of deconstructing the Historic American Nation itself, Biden poses as a champion of the “working class” because he rides Amtrak but supports “constant, unrelenting” immigration, outsourcing, anti-white racial preferences and endless, nihilistic wars. McCain and Biden, are, in all essentials, practically identical.

One aches to ask Senator McCain directly what “problem” he thinks will be more effectively “solved” by importing the Third World. National security? Health care? Collapsing wages? Rising inequality? Crumbling infrastructure?

McCain’s mumblings are practically self-discrediting. But as American journalists exist to serve power and suppress dissent it’s unlikely the Senator has been or will ever be asked to defend such ludicrous claims.

McCain draws a distinction between “nationalism” and “patriotism,” with the former being defined by the concrete realities of history and heritage and the latter formed by mysterious abstractions.

“We live in a land made of ideals, not blood and soil,” he explained. “We are the custodians of those ideals at home, and their champion abroad.”

These ideals, as is customary when they are invoked, are not defined. Yet given McCain’s tributes to the “immigrant’s dream,” the land which “reinvents itself,” and the current “international order,” his remarks are being hyped as a rebuke of “Trumpism” and celebrated by Leftist journalists who suddenly claim the right to define what is “conservatism” or “Republicanism” [John McCain just delivered a total and complete takedown of Trumpism, by Chris Cillizza, CNN, October 17, 2017]

McCain’s ideals would be unrecognizable, not only to the Founding Fathers, but to practically any other American generation in history. Would the Father of Our Country have countenanced endless interventionism? Would either Jefferson or Hamilton have recognized a moral imperative for self-annihilation? Would any Federalist or anti-Federalist celebrate the replacement of the very people who had just won independence from the British Empire?

McCain’s denunciation of “nationalism” is also selective. McCain is quite eager to defend the borders of other nations. “We are all Ukrainians,” he declared on one occasion [Senator John McCain: “We Are All Ukrainians, by Jay Newton-Small, Time, February 28, 2014]. “We are all Georgians” he pronounced on another.

It is only when it comes to America that McCain’s “patriotism” becomes abstract and imaginary. Indeed, it seems every people on earth has a right to “blood and soil” which must be safeguarded by American arms, except Americans themselves.

Even as this is written, Kurds and Iraqis are on the brink of war [The Kurdish War with Iraq, by Thomas Ricks, Foreign Policy, October 17, 2017]. If it erupts, once again, the tribal hatreds and border conflicts of peoples who should be of interest to us only in anthropology textbooks will be cause for the death of American soldiers.

The sacrifice of our military is framed as “leadership.” “That leadership has had its costs, but we have become incomparably powerful and wealthy as we did,” McCain gloats. And he is right, in speaking of his peers; he and his fellow parasites are indeed incomparably powerful and wealthy.

But such power and wealth does not trickle down to those he ostensibly represents. The wages of working Americans have stagnated for decades, and even skilled workers can barely earn a wage sufficient to support a family.

And “power?” The tyranny of George III that our forefathers rose against would be a glorious boon for ordinary Americans of today, as their lives, families, communities, and property are forfeit to the whims of unelected bureaucrats, publicly funded “activists,” or sadistic reporters eager to rouse a mob. McCain’s tribute to America’s “power” and “wealth” is reminiscent of an Ottoman sultan boasting about shared victories to the janissaries he’s kidnapped from Eastern Europe.

The democratic system McCain pledges Americans to defend is a form of government in which elected officials blatantly lie to their constituents and then taunt them at the very moment of betrayal. Consider McCain himself. He campaigned on repealing Obamacare, and then gleefully voted to save it [Mr. McCain Goes To Washington, by John Fund, National Review, July 30, 2017] He promised to “complete the danged fence” but instead has done his best to make sure Arizona ceases to be an American state in any meaningful sense.

One may disagree with monarchy or some other form of unelected leadership, but it seems vastly preferably to a system where political power is awarded to the most outrageous liar. Such a system should not be tolerated, let alone fought for.

Besides, the liberal international order McCain defends is nothing of the kind. The Western world is not free. [The Liberalism That Isn’t, by Costin Alamariu, Daily Caller, September 7, 2017] East Germany in the 1980s was in some ways more free than contemporary Germany is today: it would not have occurred to Erich Honecker to expose his subjects to mass sexual assault at the hands of Muslim invaders and then arrest anyone who protests. [Married couple sentenced for migrant critical Facebook post, by Chris Tomlinson, Breitbart, July 8, 2016]

The Occupation Government in Washington has presided over the Death of the West. The world order McCain defends is, quite explicitly, built on the dispossession of the European-Americans who actually created the American polity. If our civilization or country is to survive in any meaningful sense, that order must be destroyed.

And that means replacing the political class, the enemy collaborators, exemplified by the likes of Senator McCain. His warmongering against a nuclear armed Russia is unhinged. His desire to hurt our own nation is so unrelenting and energetic one wonders if he is working under duress or threat of blackmail. I almost hope so. To think he actually believes these ideas is a terrifying possibility.

It is not polite to speak ill of the terminally ill. Yet this cruel, murderous and thoroughly despicable character poses a threat not just to the existence of the American nation, but to the very lives of people all over the world.

I wish the Senator no harm. I only offer a desperate prayer in self-defense that his retirement will be forthcoming and his media megaphone removed.

The political life not just of our country, but of the world, must be rid of this Man of Blood, this sociopathic butcher—who, shuffling to his grave, seems determined to drag us all down with him.(2 images)

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#1. To: Deckard (#0)

The Stain is truly a mega douche bag! And he is not the only one in DC claiming to be a Republican. I wish N Vietnam would have kept him. I sincerely wish he would go ahead & retire!!!

I also wonder why he takes the positions he does. But I think it is simply that he is following orders from the NWO / Globalist / CFR crowd. How they manage it, I am not sure, but would imagine they are blackmailing him. With what, I do not know.

I will add that all those that voted to keep him in office are a bunch of douche bags as well !!!

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.

Never Pick A Fight With An Old Man He Will Just Shoot You He Can't Afford To Get Hurt

"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." (Will Rogers)

Stoner  posted on  2017-10-20   17:12:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Deckard (#0)

I never cared much for McCain... But if he's aggravating these neo-nazi pinheads, then he must be doing something right.

Willie Green  posted on  2017-10-20   19:18:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Deckard, buckeroo, Gatlin, BorisY, jeremiad, Abcdefg, rlk, Justified (#0)


Gatlin>> There was no good reason to post this trash on LF. John McCain did absolutely nothing as a POW that was dishonorable.

libertysflame.com/cgi-bin...?ArtNum=47351&Disp=14#C14

http://investmentwatchblog.com/john-mccain-1969-tokyo-rose-vietnam-confession/

Hondo68  posted on  2017-10-20   19:23:55 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Stoner (#1)

The punishment for being a RINO, is being a McTumor.

I hope his final months are painful and he dies shitting himself.

I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح

GrandIsland  posted on  2017-10-20   19:55:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: hondo68, GrandIsland (#3)

Without "yukon" on LF, I gotta say, we lost a contributor to belly-gut lafter. Kinda like GrandIsland.

buckeroo  posted on  2017-10-21   0:39:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: hondo68 (#3) (Edited)

THIS RECORDING HAS BEEN SEALED BY
THE US GOVERNMENT SINCE IT’S BROADCAST
IT WAS ONLY RELEASED THIS WEEK
WHEN SOMEONE FOUND IT MISLABLED
IN THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES.

Like U.S. Rep Frederica Wilson who is “all hat and no cattle” you are “all bullshit and no brain” for failing to portray this prime example of how important context is in understanding the meaning behind this video and the reason for it was that it was torturously and forcibly extracted.

By posting this video out of context you are attempting by insinuation to show that when he was a POW, McCain was a “Hanoi Hilton songbird” who collaborated with the enemy. You however show no evidence to back up this claim which is strongly contradicted by accounts from interviews with other POWs. Robert Timberg interviewed many POWs who served with McCain, said there's no evidence that he ever collaborated with the North Vietnamese. "I've never known of any occasion in which Sen. McCain provided the North Vietnamese with anything of value," Timberg said.

George "Bud" Day and Orson Swindle, fellow POWs, said that POWs sometimes were forced to talk when they were tortured, but they tried to tell lies to mislead their captors. "We were all tortured and we wrote confessions under the pressure of torture," said Swindle, who was a cellmate with McCain. "John McCain never collaborated with the enemy. He, like every one of us, submitted to severe torture. John McCain did nothing dishonorable. He was heroic." Day, a Medal of Honor winner, said about a flyer to portray McCain as a traitor, this is "the most outrageous f------ lie I've ever heard."

When he was interrogated, McCain gave his ship's name and squadron number and confirmed the target of his failed mission. He also gave the names of the Green Bay Packers' offensive line and said they were members of his squadron. Asked to identify future targets, he mentioned North Vietnamese cities that U.S. planes had already bombed. At one point after severe torture McCain broke down and signed a confession. But Timberg said McCain deliberately used misspellings, grammatical errors and Communist jargon to show he was writing under duress: "I am a black criminal and I have performed the deeds of an air pirate. I almost died, and the Vietnamese people saved my life . . . "

John McCain is a long-time acquaintance of Doctor Phillip Butler at the U.S. Naval Academy and as Prisoners of War in Vietnam. Phillip Butler is a 1961 graduate of the United States Naval Academy and a former light-attack carrier pilot. In 1965 he was shot down over North Vietnam where he spent eight years as a prisoner of war. He is a highly decorated combat veteran who was awarded two Silver Stars, two Legion of Merits, two Bronze Stars and two Purple Heart medals. After his repatriation in 1973 he earned a Ph.D. in sociology from the University of California at San Diego.

Butler has said he is disappointed to see John McCain represent himself politically in ways that are not accurate. He said there are instances where he doesn’t see that John is the "straight talk express" on politics he markets himself to be. While Butler said that McCain is a remarkable man who has made enormous personal achievements and he is a man that I am proud to call a fellow POW who "Returned With Honor" Butler did not support or vote for McCain is the election for McCain to be President of the United States.

Butler had this to say about McCain's treatment as a POW:

1) Was he tortured for 5 years? No. He was subjected to torture and maltreatment during his first 2 years, from September of 1967 to September of 1969. After September of 1969 the Vietnamese stopped the torture and gave us increased food and rudimentary health care. Several hundred of us were captured much earlier. I got there April 20, 1965 so my bad treatment period lasted 4 1/2 years. President Ho Chi Minh died on September 9, 1969, and the new regime that replaced him and his policies was more pragmatic. They realized we were worth a lot as bargaining chips if we were alive. And they were right because eventually Americans gave up on the war and agreed to trade our POW's for their country. A damn good trade in my opinion! But my point here is that John allows the media to make him out to be THE hero POW, which he knows is absolutely not true, to further his political goals.

2) John was badly injured when he was shot down. Both arms were broken and he had other wounds from his ejection. Unfortunately this was often the case -- new POW's arriving with broken bones and serious combat injuries. Many died from their wounds. Medical care was non-existent to rudimentary. Relief from pain was almost never given and often the wounds were used as an available way to torture the POW. Because John's father was the Naval Commander in the Pacific theater, he was exploited with TV interviews while wounded. These film clips have now been widely seen. But it must be known that many POW's suffered similarly, not just John. And many were similarly exploited for political propaganda.

3) John was offered, and refused, "early release." Many of us were given this offer. It meant speaking out against your country and lying about your treatment to the press. You had to "admit" that the U.S. was criminal and that our treatment was "lenient and humane." So I, like numerous others, refused the offer. This was obviously something none of us could accept. Besides, we were bound by our service regulations, Geneva Conventions and loyalties to refuse early release until all the POW's were released, with the sick and wounded going first.

4) John was awarded a Silver Star and Purple Heart for heroism and wounds in combat. This heroism has been played up in the press and in his various political campaigns. But it should be known that there were approximately 600 military POW's in Vietnam. Among all of us, decorations awarded have recently been totaled to the following: Medals of Honor -- 8, Service Crosses -- 42, Silver Stars -- 590, Bronze Stars - - 958 and Purple Hearts -- 1,249. John certainly performed courageously and well. But it must be remembered that he was one hero among many -- not uniquely so as his campaigns would have people believe.

John McCain served his time as a POW with great courage, loyalty and tenacity. More than 600 of us did the same.

There are other favorable testimonials about McCain’s conduct as a POW which bear the same witness to support his bearing, character and actions….I have chosen to present only a few of those.
There is no evidence that John McCain did anything that was dishonorable while he was a POW.
Attack John McCain for his political views and actions all you wish to. You will be correct and justified to do so. But unless you can show verifiable evidence McCain did something wrong as a POW that other POWs did not also do the likes of while under the duress of extreme torture and was not considered wrong….then let time McCain served as a POW be sacred and remain as such.

The Canary Clan is charged with the responsibility to search impartially for the facts or actualities of a subject or situation. It is eminently qualified to perform this charge by devoting considerable time, deep reflection, careful deliberation, and serious consultation to approach decisions without any particular ideology or agenda. The Canary Clan has a commitment to respect precedent, fairness and a determination to faithfully present the facts.
You gotta walk that lonesome valley.
Long live freedom of speech, long live the Canary Clan and God Bless America!

Gatlin  posted on  2017-10-21   6:23:17 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Gatlin (#6)

Good morning Gatlin. Nice to see you.

I despise McCain. But you are correct it seems.

Hondo just makes stuff up. I think he has tourette syndrome and he just spouts random stuff. Mostly made up bullshit.

A K A Stone  posted on  2017-10-21   8:07:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: hondo68 (#3)

You must have really struck close to home if you got Tater to crawl out of his hole to defend the traitor McStain.

Well done!

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul

Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.

Deckard  posted on  2017-10-21   10:35:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Deckard, Tater McCanary, Gatlin, A K A Stone, McCain treasonous POS, no lie (#8)

McCain with his Islamists in Libya one year before Benghazi, priming the pump for Hillary "What does it matter"?

Hondo68  posted on  2017-10-21   12:56:37 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Gatlin (#6)

Dr. Butler, --- "John allows the media to make him out to be THE hero POW, which he knows is absolutely not true, to further his political goals."

Gatlin,--- There is no evidence that John McCain did anything that was dishonorable while he was a POW.

There is plenty of evidence that John McCain did a lot that was dishonorable while he was a Senator.

tpaine  posted on  2017-10-21   14:18:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: hondo68 (#9)

Tater McCanary

HA!!

Liberator  posted on  2017-10-21   14:49:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: A K A Stone (#7)

Good morning Gatlin. Nice to see you.
I despise McCain. But you are correct it seems.
Hondo just makes stuff up. I think he has tourette syndrome and he just spouts random stuff. Mostly made up bullshit.
Hello back to you. It was nice to read your post and to learn your thoughts on this matter.

You and I are in complete agreement about both McCain and hondo.

I supported McCain when I saw him as a right-wing conservative doing the job he was elected to do during his political career here in Arizona. Unfortunately I have been able to observe very closely as he morphed into a political mutant whose philosophy I can’t even understand and much less even tolerate to any degree.

Therefore I too have grown to despise McCain for what he has become.

It was because of this that I voted for J.D. Hayworth against McCain in the 2010 primary election. Furthermore, in the 2010 US Senate election in Arizona on November 2, 2010, I did something I never thought I would possibly do….I voted for McCain’s Democrat opponent because I thought he was the better man to serve Arizona. I did however have to hold my nose and vote for the least of the worst in 2016 because the two running against McCain in the primary and general elections were abject losers….totally deplorable. Not voting and then seeing either of those two losers win was never a choice for me.

No one needs to try and convince me that John McCain is worthless baggage for Trump supporters and the MAGA cause in the Senate. I agree with anyone on that. However, it is not McCain’s performance, or lack thereof, in the Senate that Hondo is discussing here. He is attempting to show that McCain’s actions as a POW was traitorous. That is something he simply cannot do!

In his misguided effort, Hondo is trying to take individual allegations and assumptions which collectively do not prove McCain was involved in any collaborations with the enemy. In doing so he has failed to fulfill the burden of proof effectively to capture the benefit of the allegations and assumptions.

The obligation to show factual truth lies with the claim maker, as the Latin maxim attests. Semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit, the translation of which is: The necessity of proof always lies with the person who lays allegations and charges. Hondo is an abject failure in his effort to fulfill the burden of proof to effectively capture the benefit of his false assumptions and personal opinions about what John McCain did or didn’t do while he was a POW at the Hanoi Hilton.

There were other POWs who were filmed for propaganda purposes during captivity in Vietnam. Like the John McCain film, Admiral Jeremiah Denton Jr. was also filmed making a film for propaganda purposes and that video was also broadcast around the world. You can look at a small portion of the video by clicking below to see Denton using his eyes to blink the word “TOTRURE” using Morse Code during his captivity in Vietnam.

Naval Intelligence was able to decipher his "strange" blinking. Admiral Denton was awarded the Navy Cross, our Nation's 2nd highest military honor for his heroism as a P.O.W.

The actions and inactions of all military personnel while they were POWs in Vietnam were carefully reviewed after their release and return home. Each POW was asked about what he did or didn’t do and what each of the other POWs to which they had knowledge did or didn’t do.

From the detailed interrogations of the POWs and a complete analysis of all information at hand, eight Vietnam POWs were charged with collaborating with the enemy while imprisoned. They had made antiwar broadcasts, cooperated with their captors and had written letters condemning the conflict. Fellow prisoners called them traitors and communists, and named them the “Peace Committee.” Formal military charges against the eight were filed after their release.

All eight had been accused by U.S. Air Force Col. Theodore W. Guy, who was the senior officer in their POW camp at a place called “Plantation Gardens.” Guy filed the charges May 29, 1973, claiming the men had aided the enemy, conspired to undermine discipline and disobeyed orders.

John McCain was not one of the eight POWs accused or charged for collaborating with the enemy and conspiring to undermine discipline or disobeying orders.

John McCain can rightfully be accused of doing many wrong political things, but accusing John McCain of being a traitor during his time as a POW is a charge that can never be intelligently and accurately made.

Hondo’s commenting on McCain’s actions as a POW is just as reprehensible as Representative Frederica S. Wilson’s commenting on the phone call the Commander-in-Chief made to a grieving military widow. Hondo has no standing in the matter. If Hondo had flown combat missions over Nam and had personal friends who were POWs in the Hanoi Hilton, as those of us who have….then and only then could he be qualified to directly comment on the individual actions of any POW held in captivity in Vietnam. Since he does not….he just needs to shut the fuck up!

Gatlin  posted on  2017-10-21   16:27:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: tpaine (#10)

There is plenty of evidence that John McCain did a lot that was dishonorable while he was a Senator.

You are absolutely correct, Sir.

I commend you on your astute observation with your having and showing shrewdness in your innate ability to notice and understand something clearly….IN THIS CASE.

Gatlin  posted on  2017-10-21   16:36:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Gatlin (#13)

I commend you on your astute observation with your having and showing shrewdness in your innate ability to notice and understand something clearly….IN THIS CASE.

We agree then, ---- IN THIS CASE.

By the way, did you really fly missions over NVN? Or were you claiming to have POW friends imprisoned there? Or both?

Just wondering.

tpaine  posted on  2017-10-21   16:50:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: hondo68 (#9)

McCain with his Islamists in Libya one year before Benghazi, priming the pump for Hillary "What does it matter"?
This garbage is way off the topic you called to my attention for discussion here.

Your point to me was a futile effort to show a good reason that John McCain did something traitorous by collaborating with the enemy while he was a POW at the Hanoi Hilton. You have grossly failed in your attempt to do that. Consequently, changing your axis of attack shows extreme weakness in your ability to carry on an intelligent discussion. If you desire to communicate with me, you must stay on topic.

To stay on topic, you need to simply stop and imagine for a moment what it would be like for you to be able to think clearly….to concentrate and remember what you are discussing. Yes, these are some of the things you must learn to handle while you are trying to deal with your Cognitive Dysfunction.

Gatlin  posted on  2017-10-21   16:57:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Gatlin, Songbird, Wet Start Johnny (#15)

You have grossly failed in your attempt

Your attempt to equate Admiral Denton a true POW war hero, to Hanoi John McCain has failed miserably.

Denton is a hero and McCain is an evil POS traitor, see the difference?

Hondo68  posted on  2017-10-21   18:21:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: tpaine (#14) (Edited)

By the way, did you really fly missions over NVN? Or were you claiming to have POW friends imprisoned there? Or both?

Just wondering.

It is extremely strange that you should be “just wondering” about this enough to ask your specific questions. Because of that, I am “just wondering” why I should even bother answering you since you have never believed anything I stated on the forum about my military career. Now, have you?

However, since I am so magnanimous and can be very generous or forgiving towards such a doubting Thomas skeptic who refuses to believe anything without his direct personal knowledge of an event….I will take time to graciously answer your questions.

As to your first question:

I participated in Operation Arc Light. [Click HERE for information on Operation Arc LIght] I did not participate in Operation Linebacker or Operation Linebacker II….I spent that year attending the Air Command and Staff College.
As to your second question:
I had one friend who was shot down in a B-52 over Hanoi who fortunately survived the shoot down only to have the misfortune of spending some time in the Hanoi Hilton. Before leaving Air Command and Staff College to spend a year tour in Thailand crewing on the AC-130 Spectre Gun Ship, I had the good fortune to serve as sponsor for another friend who was shot down in a F-4 and who as a returning POW was entering the Air Command and Staff College the year after me. I had served with both of these returning POWs in the B-58 Hustler at Grissom AFB.
You can chose to believe any of this you want to or continue to disbelieve anything I state about my military career. I really don’t GAS. I did have some pleasant memories reviewing the Operation Arc Light article and the videos while recalling the times I spent with my friends so many years ago and that was satisfying to me for the effort to answer your post.

Now, if you like, you can come join in my memories …

Click HERE to see more Operation Arc Light videos.

Gatlin  posted on  2017-10-21   18:24:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: hondo68 (#16)

Denton is a hero and McCain is an evil POS traitor, see the difference?

You posted a video in which McCain lied.

I posted a video in which Denton lied.

You say Denton is a hero and McCain is an evil POS traitor.

Then you ask if I see the difference.

Well….No!

Both were tortured and both produced a video with a lie.

So, I don’t see the difference.

You show me the difference.

Semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit….the necessity of proof always lies with the person who lays allegations and charges.

Gatlin  posted on  2017-10-21   18:43:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Gatlin, Ho Chi Minh shill, what difference does lying make (#18)

I don’t see the difference

Denton said that he received food and medical treatment and that he was a loyal US gov employee, which is true. McCain said that he was a war criminal killing Vietnamese people, and that the Ho Chi Minh government was nice, which are lies.

You wonder what difference lying for the enemy makes?

Hondo68  posted on  2017-10-21   19:25:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: hondo68 (#19)

On July 18, 1965, Denton was shot down in North Vietnam. He was captured by the North Vietnamese that day and he remained a prisoner of war for seven years and seven months, enduring years of solitary confinement and brutal mistreatment. Four of those years were spent in solitary confinement where he would spend day and night in a windowless 3-by-9-foot cell mostly in irons.

On May 2, 1966, as part of a propaganda campaign, the North Vietnamese arranged for Denton to be interviewed for television by a Japanese reporter. His appearance before the TV camera was scripted by the guards for him to say that he received food and medical treatment. That was a scripted lie he was forced to tell.

It was during this time before the TV camera that he blinked his eyes in Morse code the word “T-O-R-T-U-R-E” to show that he was appearing under duress and was being tortured. When asked about his views on the actions of the U.S. Government he had not been scripted to answer that question and “he strongly affirmed his government’s position, in defiance of his captors’ instructions. He then prepared himself for the torture session that followed.

Both Denton and McCain were tortured before they appeared on camera and tortured afterwards. Denton had an opportunity to make a patriotic statement because he was asked a question which he had not been scripted to answer. John McCain did not have that same opportunity. If asked the same question during the interview that Denton was asked, there is no way of knowing what McCain would have said.

Both men were tortured before and after the interviews and both men were given a script of lies to follow. Denton was afforded an impromptu opportunity to go off script when John McCain was not.

You don’t know what would have happened had Denton’s scripted statement and answers been given to McCain and McCain’s scripted statement and answers had been given to Denton and neither does anyone else. But you think that you are one uber-smart individual who can listen to different forced interviews and decide that Denton is a hero and McCain is an evil POS traitor. GET FUCKING REAL.

Denton spent almost eight years as a prisoner of war, suffering severe mistreatment and becoming the first U.S. military captive to be subjected to four years of solitary confinement. His book offers the true shocking details about his about that ordeal and is called, "When Hell was in Session."

Furthermore …

It has been reported and testified to that the North Vietnamese torture was so sufficiently brutal and ever prolonged that virtually every American POW so subjected was forced to make a statement of some kind at some time.[15] As one POW wrote of finally being forced to make an anti-American statement: "I had learned what we all learned over there: Every man has his breaking point. I had reached mine."[13] Realizing this, the Americans' aim became to absorb as much torture as they could before giving in.[11] After making statements, the POWs would admit to each other what had happened, lest shame or guilt consume them or make them more vulnerable to additional North Vietnamese pressure.[11] Nevertheless, the POWs obsessed over what they had done, and would years after their release still be haunted by the "confessions" or other statements they had made.[17] As another POW later said, "To this day I get angry with myself. But we did the best we could. [We realize], over time, that we all fall short of what we aspire to be. And that is where forgiveness comes in. "[17]

- [11] Mahler, Jonathan (2005-12-25). "The Prisoner". The New York Times Magazine.
- [13] Lieut. Commander John S. McCain III, United States Navy (1973-05-14). "How the POW's Fought Back". U.S. News & World Report. Reposted under title "John McCain, Prisoner of War: A First-Person Account", 2008-01-28. Reprinted in Library of America staff (1998). Reporting Vietnam, Part Two: American Journalism 1969–1975. Library of America. pp. 434–463. ISBN 1-883011-59-0.
- [15] Hubbell, P.O.W., p. 548.
- [17] Farrell, John Aloysius (2000-01-23). "'A refining experience'". The Boston Globe.
So….Hot Shot….There were nearly 600 American POWs released. The North Vietnamese torture was so sufficiently brutal and ever prolonged that virtually every American POW so subjected was forced to make an anti-American statement of some kind at some time. Denton was forced to lie as was McCain also forced to lie….along with virtually every American POW.

Now, asshole….you are one ignorant SOB to think that you can unilaterally decide who among these nearly 600 American POWs that were forced to make an anti-American statement were lying traitors and who are heroes simply based on the aspects of their lives as you see them following their release.

You wonder what difference lying for the enemy makes?
Nah, I can only wonder what makes you so damned stupid.

Gatlin  posted on  2017-10-21   22:36:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: hondo68 (#16)

Denton is a hero and McCain is an evil POS traitor, see the difference?

Tater's lips are so firmly pressed to McStain's ass that he can't see anything.

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul

Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.

Deckard  posted on  2017-10-21   23:47:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Gatlin, McCain, Kerry, POW MIAs (#20)

nearly 600 American POWs that were forced to make an anti-American statement

McCain did, Denton didn't! Your attempt to smear POW/MIA's with your lies is despicable. You're scum, like McCain.

McCain lied in his anti-American broadcasts. He's still blocking release of information on POW/MIA's.

Denton told the truth in his pro-American broadcast, and he's not the only POW to do so.

Hondo68  posted on  2017-10-22   0:39:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Deckard (#21)

Tater's lips are so firmly pressed to McStain's ass that he can't see anything.

It's probably because he's voted for him numerous times and has a need to justify/rationalize his actions so he can feel good about himself, for some silly reason.

Vegetarians eat vegetables. Beware of humanitarians!

CZ82  posted on  2017-10-22   8:35:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Gatlin (#17)

It is extremely strange that you should be “just wondering” about this enough to ask your specific questions. Because of that, I am “just wondering” why I should even bother answering you since you have never believed anything I stated on the forum about my military career. Now, have you?

It's not strange at all to wonder about the veracity of a man who seizes every opportunity to toot his own horn.

Thanks for once again doing so.

tpaine  posted on  2017-10-22   13:28:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: tpaine (#24) (Edited)

Thanks …
Oh, you are more than welcome. But you really need to find a better way to occupy your time rather than continually stalking my posts.

You also need to get over your obsessive jealousy of me….then find a way to overcome your inferiority complex and also accomplish great things in your life.

Because …

In the end, you're measured not by how much you undertake but by what you finally accomplish ~ Donald Trump
I will leave you with this …

Gatlin  posted on  2017-10-22   16:58:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: tpaine (#24)

You asked him and he answered.

A K A Stone  posted on  2017-10-22   21:25:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: A K A Stone, tpaine, Gatlin (#26)

I don't mean to step on your toes, but why do consistently defend "Gatlin." He is one of the worst posters on this chit-chat channel.

buckeroo  posted on  2017-10-22   21:42:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: buckeroo (#27)

YOU calling another poster "the worst" is as laughable as that cowboy hat wearing Florida racist cunt gorilla considering herself a rockstar

I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح

GrandIsland  posted on  2017-10-22   21:59:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Gatlin, sneakypete (#25)

I thought of you last night watching Pluto.tv. MST3K was featuring the 1964 movie The Starfighters, a documentary movie about the Lockheed F-104b fighter. It starred Bob Dornan and it laster was a part of his bid to become a Congressman. I'm sure you recall "B-1 Bob".

Tooconservative  posted on  2017-10-22   22:00:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: GrandIsland, Gatlin, A K A Stone (#28)

YOU calling another poster "the worst" is as laughable as that cowboy hat wearing Florida racist cunt gorilla considering herself a rockstar

Lets be brutally honest, although it will be difficult for you to swallow: I did not perform that post that you claim I did. Immediately below is what I said:

I don't mean to step on your [A K A Stone] toes, but why do consistently defend "Gatlin." He is one of the worst posters on this chit-chat channel.

As I re-think my earlier post, I should have included you, GI. YOU are the worst poster on this chit-chat channel. In fact, you are the scum bag of the Universe for incorrectly identifying my posts and playing some bullshit.

You are a fuckin' lamer.

buckeroo  posted on  2017-10-22   22:23:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Tooconservative, yukon, meguro, Gatlin, Bob Dornan (#29)

Is that yukon, meguro and Gatlin in the foreground?

Gatlin hates B1 Bob Dornan because he slams McCain for his POW/MIA information cover ups, as a Senator from Arizona.

Hondo68  posted on  2017-10-22   23:29:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Tooconservative (#29) (Edited)

I'm sure you recall "B-1 Bob".
Of course.

I enjoyed the video, thanks for sharing. It brought back two pleasant memories.

First, I was on the both the receiving end and the pumping end of the KC-135 refueling boom many times. I was on the receiving end during my ten years in the B-58. Then I was on pumping end of the KC-135 during my final year of service awaiting retirement. The refueling squadron I was assigned to was based in Altus AFB Oklahoma but performed refueling support flying out of Eielson AFB Alaska for the RC-135 reconnaissance aircraft. And yes Sarah….”I really could see Russia out the window.”

Secondly, I had to hit a quick stop of the video at 3:48 when I saw the same 100-4 model of the red 1955 Austin Healey I had purchased new in Paris and shipped back to the states when my tour of duty in Europe was over.

Again, thanks …

Gatlin  posted on  2017-10-22   23:39:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: GrandIsland (#28)

Gatlin  posted on  2017-10-22   23:57:47 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Tooconservative (#32)

A 1955 Austin Healey 100-4 …

Link: 1955 Le Mans disaster.

Link: Austin-Healey racing car at centre of 1955 Le Mans disaster that killed 84 is set to sell for £1m.

Link: Tom drives the infamous 1955 Le-Mans Austin Healey 100S .

Gatlin  posted on  2017-10-23   3:06:09 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: hondo68 (#31)

Your being unable to continue an intelligent discourse can be considered a major reason for the posting community’s wide acceptance of your failure to post anything beneficially informative and the reason you attempt to interject humor.

Humor in forum postings can be acknowledged widely as a area of linguistic importance. However, failed humor will definitely not received much linguistic attention. After reading your asinine failed humor remarks an educated person can easily understand why.

Gatlin  posted on  2017-10-23   3:56:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: buckeroo, A K A Stone (#27) (Edited)

I don't mean to step on your toes, but why do consistently defend "Gatlin."

Understanding truth and the need to illuminate the notion of truth is a simple role played in an intelligent person’s ordinary objective thought. This has long been established in our logical, philosophical and scientific theorization.

Acknowledging truth involves the concern for substantive background issues and the identification of the bearers of truth and good will. A person who has the innate ability to distinguish truth from other notions and call attention to that should not be challenged or chastised….they should be complimented.

You may now say: ”Thank you, Stone, for defending truth!”

Gatlin  posted on  2017-10-23   4:30:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: buckeroo, A K A Stone, GrandIsland (#30) (Edited)

Lets be brutally honest, although it will be difficult for you to swallow: I did not perform that post that you claim I did.

Before being brutally honest, you first need to be brutally clear by stating exactly what GI claimed you performed you say that you did not?

You definitely need to illuminate and resolve the puzzle you created.

***SNICKER:*** And you have the intrepidity to suggest that I am one of the worst posters on this chit-chat channel. ***SNICKER:***

Gatlin  posted on  2017-10-23   4:52:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: GrandIsland, buckeroo, A K A Stone (#30)

… for incorrectly identifying my posts …

WTF is this stupid twit blithering about now?

Why in God's name can’t he think clearly so as to only talk straight and direct in his posts and be understood?

Never mind answering the second question….it’s rhetorical.

Gatlin  posted on  2017-10-23   5:09:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Gatlin (#34)

A 1955 Austin Healey 100-4 …

One of the most handsome sports cars, styling ahead of its time really. The early Covettes and Porshes had nothing over it.

Tooconservative  posted on  2017-10-23   6:17:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Tooconservative (#39)

Side bar note:

I had planned to take the five hour drive from Toul-Rosières AFB France over to watch portions of the “1955 24 Hours of Le Mans” to see the Austin Healey run, but a last minute situation change made it unable for me to make the trip. I all to soon learned that cancellation may have been a blessing when information about the historic crash began to filter out.

I had a ’58 100-6 red-over-black four seater later on at Grissom AFB and my aircraft commander had a black ’62 3000. He lived across the street and we would head out to fly and return from flying in formation.

Enough about the Austin Healey….thanks for triggering the memories.

Gatlin  posted on  2017-10-23   9:45:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: Gatlin (#40)

The '58 4-speed 4-seater in red.

The '58 2-seater, red-over-black.

That model with Ice Blue and Ivory interior was ahead of its time. What a pussy wagon. Anyway, it shows the interior layout nicely.     : )

Tooconservative  posted on  2017-10-23   10:00:56 ET  (3 images) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: Reconquistas, Gatlin, Panama Juan McAztlan, *Border Invasion* (#35)

unable to continue

You and your Panamanian Senator both need to be deported to Aztlán!

The Mexica depart from Aztlán. From the 16th Century Codex Boturini. Created by an unknown Aztec hand in the 16th century.
(Gatlin & McCain journey to America)

Hondo68  posted on  2017-10-23   11:15:18 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Tooconservative (#41)

The louvered hood in the top picture is customized.

The wheels in the second photo replaced the wire spokes which were a bitch to keep balanced.

I added four seat belts to the seats shown in the bottom photo. Those seat belts would of course be of no help in a roll over but they would be in a spin out.

I had only two kids at the time and we took a grand tour one summer from Grissom AFB through Gettysburg and on up to Niagara Falls and back with the top down all the time. Fun times …

Gatlin  posted on  2017-10-23   11:20:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: hondo68 (#42) (Edited)

Hey, I have a good idea for you.

Instead of continuing to take the abuse heaped on you, why don’t you do what Muslims do?

You may find it more gratifying and far less painful.

Just suggesting …

I am done with you for now on this thread….FUCK OFF.

Gatlin  posted on  2017-10-23   11:28:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: Gatlin (#44)

DAYUM! You would almost think they are devout Catholics,wouldn't you?

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-10-23   11:29:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: sneakypete (#45)

That IS funny ...

Gatlin  posted on  2017-10-23   11:31:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: hondo68 (#42)

You and your Panamanian Senator both need to be deported to Aztlán!

Heh!

Two insane peas in a pod.

Liberator  posted on  2017-10-23   11:39:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: hondo68, Deckard (#31)

Is that yukon, meguro and Gatlin in the foreground?

That there is some funny stuff...

Liberator  posted on  2017-10-23   11:40:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Deckard (#0)

The most contemptible and dangerous of these vermin is Senator John McCain. I

Not true. McLunatic is pretty damn despicable,but he wasn't a traitor until he became a POW and was suddenly no longer a Prince in the US Navy. For the first time in his life,he was suddenly no better,and most importanly,no better protected or treated than everyone else around him. The culture shock brought out the self-serving coward in him,and the ability to blackmail him over what he did as a POW was the nail in his coffin. Once a blackmailer starts to control you,they never quit until you are put in the ground. Over time,someone who is being blackmailed will allow their ego to come forward to justify their actions to themselves as the right thing to do because no one can live with self-hate.

PLEASE note this doesn't excuse what he did after he was released. If he had of had the courage to stand up on his hind legs and admit the pain and the threat of being crippled for life scared him into helping the NVA,most people could have probably came to forgive him. Continuing to do it is what is unforgivable,and especially since he was in no danger then and just doing it for personal power and wealth.

On the other hand,we have people like Senator William Fulbright,who willingly and knowingly provided the North Vietnamese communist government with American battle plans while serving as the Chairman of the Senate Armed Forced Committee. Fulbright was personally responsible for the deaths of thousands of American soldiers.

Not to mention President Roosevelt and his commie cousin/wife and their incestuous relationship with their "kindly Uncle Joe".

Compared to them,McLunatic is a mere shoplifter.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-10-23   11:44:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: Willie Green (#2)

I never cared much for McCain... But if he's aggravating these neo-nazi pinheads, then he must be doing something right.

If you mean that,you are a fool.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-10-23   11:48:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: A K A Stone (#26)

You asked him and he answered.

I asked him and he answered, then he concluded with another question, which I answered.

His humble reply was very satisfying. Thanks...

tpaine  posted on  2017-10-23   11:54:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: Gatlin (#6)

By posting this video out of context you are attempting by insinuation to show that when he was a POW, McCain was a “Hanoi Hilton songbird” who collaborated with the enemy.

Well,he WAS.

You however show no evidence to back up this claim which is strongly contradicted by accounts from interviews with other POWs. Robert Timberg interviewed many POWs who served with McCain, said there's no evidence that he ever collaborated with the North Vietnamese. "I've never known of any occasion in which Sen. McCain provided the North Vietnamese with anything of value," Timberg said.

There was plenty of evidence during the war,but it was suppressed because his daddy was one of the most senior Admirals in the Navy,and the morale problem it would have created.

Also,more than one former POW has stated since they were released that they all had a "Gentleman's Agreement" to not divulge the names of any POW's the collaborated with the enemy to help preserve the honor of the officer corps.

Only ONE enlisted POW was held in Hanoi,a sailor that fell off the deck of a carrier and rescued by a NVN fishing boat.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-10-23   12:09:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: Gatlin (#12)

From the detailed interrogations of the POWs and a complete analysis of all information at hand, eight Vietnam POWs were charged with collaborating with the enemy while imprisoned. They had made antiwar broadcasts, cooperated with their captors and had written letters condemning the conflict. Fellow prisoners called them traitors and communists, and named them the “Peace Committee.” Formal military charges against the eight were filed after their release.

How many of them were officers,and how many were enlisted swine?

How many of them had daddies that were flag rank officers?

Names and ranks,please.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-10-23   12:13:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: sneakypete (#53) (Edited)

Names and ranks,please.

You go look up that information….I am not your fucking secretary.

Gatlin  posted on  2017-10-23   12:23:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: Gatlin, ALL (#12)

http://macvsog.cc/jon_cavaiani%27s_pow_&_peace_committee_experience.htm

You may find this interesting.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-10-23   12:34:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: Tooconservative (#29)

OFF TOPIC!

I am finally watching Pluto TV today. In fact,am listening to live news as I type this.

My Channel Master took a dump this morning. I can unplug it to reboot it and get it working again,but within a couple of minutes it shuts down again.

This is the second one to take a dump in around 4 years. The first one only lasted about 18 months.

Going to contact CM today about sending it in to be repaired. If they give me any grief,I won't be buying another one or recommending one to my friends. I will be looking for a practical alternative.

Luckily for me I only had about 3 percent of the internal hd filled,and it was mostly stuff I can miss without regret because it will be ran over and over again somewhere. I would be really steamed if I had not watched the most recent episode of Polkark that was recorded last night.

Going to have to type up a schedule so I make sure I watch upcoming episodes on the ROKU PBS station.

Do you know if it is possible to schedule and record ROKU programming?

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-10-23   12:45:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: Tooconservative (#39)

A 1955 Austin Healey 100-4 …

One of the most handsome sports cars, styling ahead of its time really. The early Covettes and Porshes had nothing over it.

I prefer the 3000 A-H,myself. Came damn close to buying one when I came back to Bragg from Okinawa,but since there were no A-H parts and service depts within 100 miles of either Bragg or my home,I had to pass.

A 3000 or a pre-71 XKE convertible were my dream cars back when they were affordable for most people. Now you have to be rich to buy either.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-10-23   12:50:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: Gatlin (#54) (Edited)

Names and ranks,please.

You go look up that information….I am not your fucking secretary.

Ok,you don't know.

Why is it so hard for you to admit it?

Is it because you actually do know,and don't want to admit all 8 were enlisted swine?

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-10-23   12:55:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: sneakypete (#56) (Edited)

Do you know if it is possible to schedule and record ROKU programming?

Well, I guess you could.

Most of these streams are not protected with strong HDCP copy protection. So you could get a HDMI splitter/deHDCP device off Amazon ($21). Then you can just plug it into a capture card or USB capture device like these. Price from $150-$400. Then you have to recompress it.

IOW, yes but it isn't something I would recommend for you to try. And I don't think you could schedule it very easily, that would be even harder to do.

I am finally watching Pluto TV today. In fact,am listening to live news as I type this.

You get more channels if you sign up at pluto.tv. Then go to their channel #2 (My Pluto). It will display a 6-digit code. You take that and use your browser to go to http://pluto.tv/activate and type in the code. It will unlock more channels for you.

You can also get a client program on your computer (Windows/Mac/Linux). The advantage is that it allows you to timeshift the Pluto shows. They used to allow recording it on your hard drive but apparently they only allow timeshifting now. Anyway, I can't get it to record now like it used to.

I see they are playing the old Route 66 shows. I wish they'd start playing Adam 12.

Do you know if that oldies channel, TVland, is available on Roku? There are a few others that have the old shows from the Fifties/Sixties/Seventies but I haven't found them on Roku yet.

Tooconservative  posted on  2017-10-23   13:28:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: sneakypete (#52)

There was plenty of evidence during the war,but it was suppressed because his daddy was one of the most senior Admirals in the Navy,and the morale problem it would have created.
“Plenty of evidence”….and “supposed.” What gross generalizations!

Obviously all of this is only your reserved personal opinion or just wild conjecture.

Yes, it has been reported there was POW information suppressed but not the kind of information about which you speak.

It has been reported that the suppressed information was ONLY on POWs who never returned. Furthermore, nowhere has it been shown what information was suppressed or why.

Oh, there has always been loose talk….the kind of loose talk like you are engaging in now…. but the truth is hard to divine since there has never been any firm supportable evidence.

None of this loose talk or vague rumors has ever been considered factual, because they’ve never been confirmed, and would be very, very difficult, if not impossible to confirm.

Unless of course you have personal knowledge and privileged insight that has never been shared publically.

Gatlin  posted on  2017-10-23   13:30:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: Gatlin (#38)

Just because you want to play games as in the support of your butt buddy YUKON all nite long OR your butt buddy GrandIsland all nite long doesn't mean I am on your talkie thread. I rarely post anymore.

Take my advice: you are a failure in life and as such, DIE.

buckeroo  posted on  2017-10-23   14:53:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: sneakypete (#55) (Edited)

I did find that information most interesting….thanks. I have read everything I can find on the POWs over the years, but I missed that link. There are so many things I could comment on from reading the article but I don’t have time.

I find nothing in his statement to contradict anything I have read in the past. Sergeant Major Jon Cavaiani has my respect and great admiration….may he eternally rest in peace.

I did find one thing most interesting in reading the report. I remember that you posted no enlisted personnel were in the Hanoi Hilton….I believer that was what you said. Well, contrary to this…the Sergeant Major stated that he was in the Hanoi Hilton at the time the Paris agreement was signed and in contact with Ted Guy there at that time. Minor point, but I am a nitpicker for details.

I have long known that eight Vietnam POWs were charged with collaborating with the enemy. I think all were members of the “Peace Committee” although I am going from memory and could be wrong about this.

I also remember reading that Robert Garwood, a Marine Corps Pfc, was the only POW brought to trial and he was found guilty of collaborating with the enemy and assaulting a fellow soldier while a POW in Vietnam. Is that correct as you know it?

You may find this information interesting if youhave not already viewed it: Traitors or patriots? Eight Vietnam POWs were charged with collaborating with the enemy.

Edit: I went back and checked. You said: “Only ONE enlisted POW was held in Hanoi,a sailor that fell off the deck of a carrier and rescued by a NVN fishing boat.”

Now we know there were at least two …

Gatlin  posted on  2017-10-23   14:59:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: buckeroo (#61)

I rarely post anymore.

That’s good news,. Bucky.

Judging from the low response to your posts and the lack of any intelligent in the comments you make….I feel that no one gives a shit if you post anymore at all.

I know that I certainly don’t.

Gatlin  posted on  2017-10-23   15:08:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: Gatlin (#63)

There is a benefit for viewers about your posts and it isn't about content of any single post; it is about your physical/mental condition being engaged all night long about ALL your posts, particularly to antagonize me.

You have further proved yourself to be worthy only of bottom whaleshit suck.

You got a serious problem. You are not just a loser in life. You deserve no compassion, either.

buckeroo  posted on  2017-10-23   15:28:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: buckeroo (#64)

As I said before, there is a lack of any intelligent in the comments you make.

I choose to now ignore you and not waste my valuable time with you any longer.

You have a nice day….or have you forgotten how to?

Gatlin  posted on  2017-10-23   15:39:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: Gatlin (#65)

Thanks for the pleasantries; are you leaving now to butt-buck either YUKON or GI? Just asking, of course.

buckeroo  posted on  2017-10-23   15:45:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: Gatlin, Hoser Canary, Tokyo McDouche (#63)

d the lack of any intelligent in the comments yo

.I feel that no one gives a shit if you post anymore at all.

I know that I certainly don’t.

Then go back to filling Tokyo Rose's douche bags!

Hondo68  posted on  2017-10-23   16:18:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: Tooconservative (#59)

IOW, yes but it isn't something I would recommend for you to try. And I don't think you could schedule it very easily, that would be even harder to do.

Thanks. Guess I am going to have to find another tuner with recording capabilities to buy.Sent a email to CM this afternoon telling them my problem,and waiting to see how they respond. If they aren't real helpful,I won't buy buying another 300 dollar tuner from them and won't recommend them to others,either.

You get more channels if you sign up at pluto.tv. Then go to their channel #2 (My Pluto). It will display a 6-digit code. You take that and use your browser to go to http://pluto.tv/activate and type in the code. It will unlock more channels for you.

Thanks for the tip,but I can't find any codes by going to channel 2,roku,or anywhere else.

I'm not a fan of the old tv shows. If I were,I could watch a ton of them off of my HD antenna. I get 39 channels,and at least 10 of them must be oldies channels.

I'll keep trying.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-10-23   19:20:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: Gatlin (#60)

Plenty of evidence”….and “supposed.” What gross generalizations!

Obviously all of this is only your reserved personal opinion or just wild conjecture.

Yeah,I tell ya what,how about you just eat shit and die. I suspect you have plenty of experience with the first,so you should get at least one new thrill if you follow my advise.

You love sucking up to the brass. We get it.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-10-23   19:22:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: Gatlin (#62)

I did find one thing most interesting in reading the report. I remember that you posted no enlisted personnel were in the Hanoi Hilton….I believer that was what you said. Well, contrary to this…the Sergeant Major stated that he was in the Hanoi Hilton at the time the Paris agreement was signed and in contact with Ted Guy there at that time. Minor point, but I am a nitpicker for details.

IIRC,he was a Sgt E-5 or SSG E-6 when captured after the NVA took Hickory Hill. A good friend of my was involved in that battle. Lost a leg due to traumatic amputation from an AK round.

He and the other enlisted were moved to Hanoi when the Peace Talks were wrapping up,in anticipation of releasing them. They were the lucky ones. Most enlisted that were captured spent all their captivity in the jungles of either Laos,Cambodia,or SVN. Very few of them were ever heard of again. It was easier to just pop a AK round in their heads and walk away once the war ended. No inconvenient questions to be answered that way.

I also remember reading that Robert Garwood, a Marine Corps Pfc, was the only POW brought to trial and he was found guilty of collaborating with the enemy and assaulting a fellow soldier while a POW in Vietnam. Is that correct as you know it?

Those were the charges,but they were either dropped or he was acquitted because he got a discharge at Camp Lejune and walked away a free man. Haven't heard anything about him since them,but I suspect he is still alive or his death would have been commented on by the media.

Edit: I went back and checked. You said: “Only ONE enlisted POW was held in Hanoi,a sailor that fell off the deck of a carrier and rescued by a NVN fishing boat.”

He WAS the only enlisted man kept a POW at the Hanoi Hilton. The VN Communists,being the status-conscious comrades that they were,decied to keep the enlisted sailor there as a servant to the officers. He could run errands for them,and since they thought he was stupid (he was,after all an enlisted man),the ironic part is he pretty much had the run of the place compared to the lock down situations of the officers. They used him to carry verbal messages,and he kept a list in his head of the names,ranks,and serial numbers of every officer held there in case the NVA tried to hold some back. He was actually a pretty sharp cookie. Can't remember his name or if he remained in the Navy after being returned,but if he did you can be sure he always had plum assignments and early promotions the rest of his career.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-10-23   19:34:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: Tooconservative (#59) (Edited)

BTW,disconnected the CM and hooked my HD antenna cable to the tv. If it had been a inch shorter,it would have been too short to reach. That's what I get for making custom cables the exact right length so I don't have to coil them. Lesson learned.

Sooooo,now I am watching antenna teebee with no TIVO. Which means no pause and no rewinding.

I think this must be how cavemen used to live.

BTW,lookit what I just bought for 80 bucks from wal-mart.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/KKmoon-4CH-Channel-Full-1080N-720P-DVR-HD-Digital-Video-Recorder-With-1TB-Hard-Disk/306654269

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-10-23   22:06:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: sneakypete (#70) (Edited)

Thanks for the info. I gathered from a previous post that he was either captured in Laos or Cambodia. My friend was in an F-4 and shot down over Laos dropping sensors. As I stated in a previous post. I was able to be his sponsor at Air Command and Staff College when I was finishing up and heading again back to SEA to the AC-130 unit at Ubon. Norm was flying out of Ubon when he was shot down. I never talked to him about his time in captivity….I never asked about it and he never brought it up. I do know that he was not the same person I had known before and I could easily understand why. He was conscious of everything and talked normally, but like he was still in some sort of a “where am I daze.”

I still think about my friends and I always will.

Info: Norbert Gotner

Info: Robert Panek

Gatlin  posted on  2017-10-23   23:01:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: sneakypete (#69)

Yeah,I tell ya what,how about you just eat shit and die.

Even after this flare up which you are entitled to….what you said is still your reserved personal opinion or just wild conjecture. Face it …

You love sucking up to the brass. We get it.

Nah, the suck ups retired as 0-6s or even higher. I retired as an 0-4. I did my job and spoke my peace like I had always done as I worked my way up to E-6. The same way I will continue to do …

Gatlin  posted on  2017-10-23   23:16:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: Gatlin (#72)

I gathered from a previous post that he was either captured in Laos or Cambodia.

No. He was at CNN,and almost all of their missions were in Laos,but some were in NVN. I know of one pilot CNN rescued after he was shot down after bombing Hanoi.

He was captured after the NVA overran the CNN radio relay site near DaNang that was called "Hickory Hill". Recon teams took turns providing security for the radio site,and it just happened they were there. The only time I was at DaNang was when I went there to catch a R&R flight to Australia,so I could be wrong about Hickory Hill's exact location. "Near" means different things to different people,and this goes double for locations of top secret radio sites.

I was at CCC,and our radio relay site was on a mountaintop in Laos,with the call sign of "Leghorn". I pulled radio watch up there several times. If you flew bombing missions in that area you probably heard our call sign,but had no idea where we were or who we were.

He actually escaped from the top of the hill as it was being overan,but was wounded and had lost his weapon. He was captured the next morning by a VN peasant that saw him and ran screaming to the local NVA. I have no idea why they thought he was important enough to take to North VN,but he got seriously lucky when they decided to take him there. Otherwise chances are he would have been listed as MIA and probably never seen again.

heading again back to SEA to the AC-130 unit at Ubon

Yeah,if you were flying Spooky gunships out of Thailand,you have heard the Leghorn call sign. If you were flying in 69,chances are we talked on the radio a time or two when I was running recon or Hatchet Force missions.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-10-23   23:27:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: sneakypete (#74)

I pick at you sometimes while we banter back and forth, as you likewise do with me. I never had it rough at any time during the conflict. Some of my friends of course did. But I am here today to tell you and the world that I have the greatest respect for you grunts (to include all ground pounders) who served in Nam. I will salute each of you and buy beers anytime. No, this doesn’t mean we need to hug….it is just something I feel like saying at this time. With that, I will sign off for the evening …

Gatlin  posted on  2017-10-23   23:50:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: sneakypete, Gilligan (#74)

Yeah,if you were flying Spooky gunships out of Thailand...

Gilligan was making the peanut butter and jelly sammiches in the back.

Liberator  posted on  2017-10-24   10:37:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: Gatlin, sneakypete (#75) (Edited)

I will salute each of you and buy beers anytime. No, this doesn’t mean we need to hug….

That's mighty white of you....considering on the ground you and your uppity AF pals would never have anything to do with Pete and his fellow grunts at the time.

Liberator  posted on  2017-10-24   10:41:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: Liberator (#77)

.considering on the ground you and your uppity AF pals would never have anything to do with Pete and his fellow grunts at the time.

Not true. The USAF was never anything less than great with SF troops AFAIK. They even had at least one C-130 Flight Group in VN dedicated solely to flying us around and resupplying our camps.

Then there were the USAF guys flying helicopters out of Thailand in support of CCS SOG missions,the 20th something,and ALL the guys that flew bombers and gun ships. ESPECIALLY the guys flying the old C-47's and the C-130's. It is no exaggeration at all to say that I wouldn't be here typing these words tonight if it weren't for them coming down low and circling around us on the ground,and "laying down the damn-damn". Once so close on my my yards got wounded by one of their 7.62mm rounds.

LOTS of those guys,as well as Army helicopter pilots and crews were invited to parties at our camps as the guests of honor.

The only military people I ever had trouble with were conventional Army people,especially MP's,and Jarheads. The Air Force were great,and they also had the best mess halls and the friendliest head cooks.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-10-24   20:56:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: Gatlin (#38)

Why in God's name can’t he think clearly so as to only talk straight and direct in his posts and be understood?

Because he's a burnt out drug user... and most likely a cop hating pickle smoocher

I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح

GrandIsland  posted on  2017-10-24   22:54:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: sneakypete (#50)

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

Mexico ain't the one building the Wall, dumbfuck.

Willie Green  posted on  2017-10-25   10:07:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: Tooconservative (#39)

One of the most handsome sports cars, styling ahead of its time really. The early Covettes and Porshes had nothing over it.

Yes, nice, ahead of its time, a classic, but to me (like all Europeans cars) the Austin Healey 100 seemed sterile compared to the '55-'57 T-Bird.

My personal favorite was the next T-Bird Gen -- '58-'60.

Style-wise, there is nothing uniquely like a mid-late American-made styled car.

Liberator  posted on  2017-10-25   10:14:02 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: Willie Green (#80)

Mexico ain't the one building the Wall, dumbfuck.

Maybe you just need diaper change, Willie. (Btw, are you overdue for an electrode session?)

Liberator  posted on  2017-10-25   10:15:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: sneakypete, redleghunter, all (#78)

Not true. The USAF was never anything less than great with SF troops AFAIK. They even had at least one C-130 Flight Group in VN dedicated solely to flying us around and resupplying our camps....

...LOTS of those guys,as well as Army helicopter pilots and crews were invited to parties at our camps as the guests of honor.

Glad to hear they treated you with utmost respect. AS THEY WELL SHOULD. You guys were probably legends to them. Symbiotic thing had to be going on, especially with chopper pilots and C-130 taxis and re-suppliers -- I get that.

Good camaraderie and morale on both your part back them. Wonder what it's been like between the different branches for the past 10 years. ANYBODY?

The only military people I ever had trouble with were conventional Army people,especially MP's,and Jarheads. The Air Force were great,and they also had the best mess halls and the friendliest head cooks.

MPs and Jarheads? That's a shock. NOT. In later years they all become mods at FR.

Liberator  posted on  2017-10-25   10:42:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: Liberator (#81)

My personal favorite was the next T-Bird Gen -- '58-'60.

I liked the T-birds that came along a few years later. Many of the ones in the Fifties were too tank-like.

Tooconservative  posted on  2017-10-25   10:59:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: Tooconservative (#84) (Edited)

All the late 50s American cars were tanks. That '58-'60 was a garish work of art. Much larger of course than the '55-'57.

Love the next two T-Bird gens as well. The '61 gen was very elegant.

Sat in a '65 T-Bird at the Ford Exhibit at the NY World's Fair in '65 as a young lad.

Liberator  posted on  2017-10-25   12:25:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: Willie Green (#80)

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

Mexico ain't the one building the Wall, dumbfuck.

*I* am the dumbfuck?

Which one of us thinks Mexico wants to build a wall to keep their people from escaping,and which one of us thinks the Mexican government would bus them here for free if they could?

Mexico IS a leftist nation,though. This means the one thing they are not short on is poor people,and their plan to provide for their poor is to send them to the US to work illegally and send money back home to their families in Mexico.

They do this BECAUSE like all other leftist nations,they can't provide for them for their own people and need to "steal" money and jobs from other countries.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-10-25   16:28:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: Liberator (#85)

Sat in a '65 T-Bird at the Ford Exhibit at the NY World's Fair in '65 as a young lad.

IMHO,the 64-67 T-Birds put the "ugh" in "ugly".

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-10-25   16:30:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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