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Title: The twilight of the elites...in the European Union
Source:
HotAir
URL Source: https://hotair.com/archives/2017/10 ... wilight-elites-european-union/
Published: Oct 17, 2017
Author: Jazz Shaw
Post Date: 2017-10-17 10:35:59 by Tooconservative
Keywords: None
Views: 12850
Comments: 109
Signs of that happening come to us with additional news in a similar vein this month. For one example, can you name the youngest national leader in the world right now? If you said Emanuel Macron you’re probably in the majority, but you’re also wrong. Macron is already almost an old man compared to the guy who is set to take power in Austria. That would be 31-year-old Sebastian Kurz, leader of the reinvigorated People’s Party (OeVP), who is about to topple the Socialist Democrat establishment in his nation. This has resulted in what the Washington Times’ Wesley Pruden describes as, “An Austrian thumb in the eye of the elites.” But the new Austrian chancellor, youthful as he is, represents just the kind of new blood that Kennedy brought to the fore in the new world. He has achieved something close to rock-star status. He took over a fading political party whose party colors were black and black, replaced them with turquoise, rebranded the party as “a movement,” promised to get tough on runaway immigration, go easy on new taxes but to stay in Europe and “put Austria first.” Did Kurz come up with “put Austria first” as a copy of Trump’s America First or did they arrive at those catchphrases independently? At this point, it doesn’t really matter. But there’s more of a similarity here than simple sloganeering. Check out the details of the Kurz platform which the Daily Mail described with palpable alarm. Some of this may ring a bell to American observers of politics. (Emphasis added) Kurz, dubbed the Conservative Macron due to his age and his party reform, said: ‘I would of course like to form a stable government. If that cannot be done then there are other options,’ adding that he planned to talk to all parties in parliament but would first wait for a count of postal ballots that begins on Monday. Kurz may form a coalition with either the now weakened Social Democrats or with the more right-wing Freedom Party. But he’s also indicating a willingness to simply go it alone if he can’t structure a deal in keeping with his campaign pledges. But Kurz isn’t the only one. The Czech Republic, also part of that same eastern block, is closing in on their own elections and if the current polling is remotely accurate the race won’t be all that close. Their next leader is most likely to be a far less youthful, but equally revolutionary gentleman who is being referred to as “the Czech Trump” or “the new Berlusconi,” depending who you ask. 63 year old Andrej Babis is the leader of the ANO party and is on track to take control. He’s similarly alarmed the defenders of the status quo with comments about how he is, “done with multiculturalism.” (The Telegraph) To be clear, I don’t believe any of this signals the absolute end of the European Union, nor will the socialist tendencies of their more western member countries be completely subsumed any time soon. Neither Kurz nor Babis is signaling an immediate move toward leaving the EU and both of their nations still benefit greatly from trade through that organization. But at the same time, they have no interest in having Brussels micromanage the affairs of their respective nations and they want their borders to be secured. And seeing how well Hungary has done in thumbing its nose at the EU, both of these men have little reason to fear reprisal. “Make Europe Great Again?” When I recently wrote about the possibility of a coming east-west schism in the European Union (EU), I focused primarily on Hungary and Poland. They’re part of that eastern block of countries which joined the EU a bit later and introduced a definite culture clash with their significantly more socialist, globalist neighbors in France and Brussels. Recent events to the east seem to have signaled a swift erosion of the older, established “elites” who have been running the show. But there are still more dominos left to fall. Herr Kurz is called “the Austrian Trump,” and not, to celebrate his youth, “the Austrian JFK,” which illustrates just how far time has marched on. Two generations have been birthed in Europe that can barely recognize the late president by his mere initials. The young leader, dubbed Wunderwuzzi in his home country, which translates to Wonderkid, has pledged to cut benefits for all foreigners in Austria and has vowed to stop the European Union meddling in the country’s politics. “We have other enemies than Russia. We have to fight the human traffickers in the Mediterranean. Twenty thousand have died in that sea. We have terrorism blighting Europe. What are we waiting for?” Mr. Babiš insisted that there are no genuine refugees arriving in Europe.
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#23. To: interpreter (#21)
Of course Basque isn't Indo -European. The Basques settled Iberia and Acquitania 40,000 years ago, painted the caves and bred with Neanderthals. Photo-Indoeuropeans didn't exist yet. The Steppes from which they eventually came 32000 years later were still covered with ice. So was Michigan, for that matter. There were no Great Lakes yet, and England and France were still a continuous, flat continent (with no people in them). The Basques have been in place for a long, long, LONG time - preparing Indo-European by tens of millennia. But Adam and Eve speaking Indo-European? No linguist will say that. For one thing, linguistics is a real science. Real science treats Adam and Eve as a cultural legend, not an actual fact. But beyond that, if we allow Adam and Eve actual existence, in a Middle Eastern Eden, with their lines traced forward among all men (and in particular the patriarchs of the Bible) THOSE people spoke Hebrew and Akkadian, Aramaic and Canaanitin and Phonecian, and Coptic Egyptian. And those languages are entirely Hamitic and Semitic in origin, two completely different language families utterly unrelated to Indo-European, as are Sinitic (Chinese) and Altaic (Mongolian) languages. Basque is unique not only because it's a European language unrelated to the surrounding Indo-European languages, but because it is not related to ANY other language or language family on earth. That is because we are descended from angels...or Neanderthalers.
Now THAT's good stuff! If I win the lottery, I'm going to do it: milk the white-tails! It's proven technology with the reindeer, so let's take it to the next step!
Finally, a GOP congressman that you can like. Anyway, it's very rare to catch any reindeer news so naturally I thought of your interest.
I am curious: have you ever even milked a cow? Or a goat? Both are a lot more domesticated than any deer or reindeer. It isn't as much fun as you might think. And forget about any vacations or leaving home unless you have a neighbor or employee stupid enough to keep up the milking twice a day. You have to milk on schedule twice a day to keep up milk production. And they don't make any milking machines that can fit a goat or reindeer AFAIK.
It isn't as much fun as you might think. Of course. And you're right, it's not particularly fun. It's not a horror either. A chore. I assume that I will organize the farms and make sure they operate efficiently and have proper facilities and veterinary care. I assume that once I have gone through the rather dreary business of establishing the best practices and the proper standards of kind treatment, by example, that I will be able to step away from the actual teat-squeezing and hire peasants to do that part.
Your prospects of finding enough reliable teat-squeezing peasants may not be as rosy as you think. Even so, I wish you luck with finding them. Finding milkmaids in the 21st century isn't so easy. It seems they do have milking machines for goats and sheep at Amazon. Not just one, a number of types. They offer different sizes of teat cups, goat hobbles (I only ever had hobbles for a cow), other equipment.
Finding milkmaids in the 21st century isn't so easy. I always figured that I would have an easier time persuading the Russians to let me turn Siberia into a vast set of linked farms than persuading any American state to let me turn the wild whitetails into a semi-domesticated herd. There are plenty of peasants in Russia willing to do things a lot more demeaning than that. In the US, I would prefer to use prisoners. Handling their own animals often makes really bad men better than they were.
Russia is willing, eager even, to bring in American agricultural producers with expertise. They have ranchers and cowboys over there from places like Wyoming and Montana (people who are used to cold weather and a hard life).
Back after their Revolution and before World War II, many skilled American engineers went over there to help them set up factories using modern techniques. Tsarist Russia was really pathetic at educating engineers to do that, due to the class and wealth strictures on education under the old monarchy. I had a great uncle who was an engineer in the auto industry in Michigan who went over there in the 1920s and helped them design and build modern factories for machine production. It's a good thing Americans went over and did that, because it was those same factories that churned out war material that ate up the German armies two decades later. Without those production facilities, the USSR would never have been able to survive the German onslaught, and we would have faced an ugly one-front war against the Third Reich on the beaches of France. After the Cold War ended, men like Tillerson went over there with their companies and helped the Russians re-establish their oil industry on modern lines. Russia really is a land of opportunity for American engineers with vision. It's a vast land with people who are well- educated in the sciences, but who do not have the benefit of modern systems theory or capital. Russians are hardy, and they will work as regular employees in places so harsh that American workers would demand - and get - high pay as an incentive to go. Russia's a hard place, to be sure, and if you try to set up any sort of financial system, you are going to get robbed. (That is also true in China, for different reasons: the Chinese government will steal your intellectual property. The Russian government won't do that, but the Russian mob will literally steal any money you bring in.) In Russia, you can have security if you build things in agriculture, in raw materials exploitation, in power generation. And you building things means that you provide the money and some expertise - the Russians themselves will build it and operate it, but if you provide the funds and some plans, the Russians will let you get a reasonable profit stream from it and won't just seize it. There is a rule of law, of sorts, in Russian when you stay down in beetroots and machine parts. Try to make money on money flows, which is to say usury, and you're going to get devoured. In China, you can make a profit for a few years, while you build your big factories. But then they will steal you blind and take all of your intellectual property. And anyway, China is not full of deer. Siberia is. One of the Soviet Winter War plans was to move large populations of defeated Finnish Laplanders to Siberia to make it productive in cold weather agriculture and industry. Of course those plans never came to be because the Finns fought the Soviets off pretty effectively until the very end - and then Stalin had far bigger fish to fry than little Finland. "So many Russians, and our country so small, where will we find room to bury them all?" - Finnish expression from 1940.
Siberia aside, I still think it would be difficult to line up and milk reindeer with milking machines. And they still only would produce something like two quarts of milk per day. A dairy cow can produce gallons. You would really have to have a market demand to justify creating the herd and barns and machinery and such. And then get the reindeer to be a little cooperative.
Yeah watch the closest hind leg closely.
You will at least need 8 maids a milking. Just think how the "12 days of Christmas" reinforces white privilege. :)
In Texas some Juvenile Corrections facilities teach ranching/farming skills. That could be a ministry for you Vic. Come on down to Texas and leave behind your Yankee ways (as I did). :)
Good stuff. You really ought to have been a University professor. You're problem would have been boredom if you were compelled to teach the same subject every year. (Still have that reindeer dream? :-)
You would really have to have a market demand to justify creating the herd and barns and machinery and such. And then get the reindeer to be a little cooperative. Now...THIS is classic LP/LF fare. Hilarious. I for one enjoy it. MLK had his dream; Vic has his. The couple quarts + untrainable reindeer does present logistics probs if the intent is commercial liability. Reindeer milk. Reindeer Mozzarella. Reindeer yogurt. Hmmm...
When the day comes when I'm milking a reindeer or cow, I'm hoping for a kick in the head ;-)
Just think how the "12 days of Christmas" reinforces white privilege. :) Uh-oh. 12 Days of a WHITEY Christmas. Great meme.
Excellent idea. Vic, first you've got to run a personal pilot program. I truly believe Vic could well conduct a Juvie project and turn it into a ministry... Or run seminars in his native New England. I can see one or all being successful for him... All those retired hippies up in Vermont, Mass, NY State and CT are BEGGING for something like this. Btw, dunno how anybody can leave NY/NJ/CT pizza and beaches for...Texas ;-/
Hence a proper set of hobbles. And a rope if they're really uppity. : ) My hobbles were very old and looked just like this I see they have nicer nylon hobbles now that would be gentler to the skin.
I'm not saying the reindeer are untrainable, just undomesticated. You can break even a herd cow in adulthood to milk. But you find that most aren't amenable. They just don't like us. I can't blame them. However, something around 15%-20% of herd cows can be bribed to docility with a quart or two of corn. Just make sure that you're done milking before they finish their bribe. : )
So...IF they can become domesticated, it is plausible they will hold still and cooperate for a quart or two per day? You can break even a herd cow in adulthood to milk. But you find that most aren't amenable. They just don't like us. I can't blame them. However, something around 15%-20% of herd cows can be bribed to docility with a quart or two of corn. Just make sure that you're done milking before they finish their bribe. : ) Don't like those odds. And timing. As a Joisey guy, I think I'd rather roll the dice and brave the lunatics in the dairy section of Walmart. WAIT....
Just for fun, do it all in remote Siberia. Vic had better win the lottery. You might be surprised. Sell it as all-organic, super-healthy, tell the rubes that the Eskimos are eating and drinking reindeer milk and living to be 185 years old, the usual sales blarney. It's not impossible, given adequate marketing and enough stupid rich hippie types. Vic probably knows tons of 'em right in his own neighborhood.
Being truly domesticated takes many centuries. Dogs are domesticated. Most cow breeds are domesticated. Cats are barely domesticated. Goats and sheep are mostly domesticated. So you wouldn't get truly domesticated animals in your lifetime probably. But if you raise them in captivity and that is all they know and they can't really forage for themselves, complete dependency of a herd on humans does look a lot like domestication. You could likely find feeds they would especially like, that would increase their milk production as well. Clovers, alfalfas, apple cube products, all that stuff you can buy to attract deer. You only need to get them to walk into their milking stall and hold still for five minutes twice a day. And they do have some discomfort if they aren't milked so that works for you. It would be a total yuppie product. Not in the price range of the People Of Walmart.
I'm from Michigan - a Midwesterner - not a Yankee.
Quite impossible, really. Reindeer, moose and elk are skittish. You have to do it by hand. Cervid milk is very rich in milkfat. Producer cow milk is 3.75% milkfat. Reindeer milk in on the order of 23%. Market demand is easy to generate. You take the milk and you make gjetost desert cheese out of it. You cut it into three ounce blocks and you put it in green, red and white wrapping with a picture of Santa's face and reindeer, and you market it at Christmastime as "Santa's own" - genuine reindeer milk cheese. You sell it for $15 a cube. Likewise, you make reindeer milk chocolate, in the form of a reindeer, and sell that. And finally, you market a triple-creamy Bullwinkle's Butter, made from moose milk.
Rudolph's own. Santa's own. Bullwinkle's own butter. And once you've milked the white-tails, Bambi Brand And Hart Healthy Elk milk.
There are ways to significantly gentle most any species. It may take a generation or so. We just haven't tried very hard yet. I can think of a number of approaches that might work beyond food bribery. First, you have to explain to the yuppie foodies what that is and why they want it more than life itself. You're making me uncomfortable. LOL
A man with ambitions. Heh-heh. I think you might be more commercially viable with elk than with whitetail or reindeer. A bigger animal, it can produce more milk per animal, reducing labor costs, facility overhead, etc.
But is it enough of a challenge? 8-P You might be surprised. Sell it (reindeer milk, cheese, yogurt, etc) as all-organic, super-healthy, tell the rubes that the Eskimos are eating and drinking reindeer milk and living to be 185 years old, the usual sales blarney. It's not impossible, given adequate marketing and enough stupid rich hippie types. Vic probably knows tons of 'em right in his own neighborhood. Absolutely. I wouldn't be surprised at all that reindeer dairy products could find a very viable marketing niche in New England as well as the Pacific NW. Yup...parade some wrinkled up 185 year old Yankees claiming IT has been THE reason for challenging Methuselah's longevity and good health.
SOMEWAY, I feel compelled to defer to the skilled hands of you midwestern types and Yankee types who find squeezing and tugging on select animal parts for milk more routine. Walmart might carry the Chinese "reindeer" milk for a very reasonable price ;-) Yes...the snob-appeal should also work in Vic's favor. I can see Whole Foods carrying Reindeer milk. Say $12 per quart (is that enough??)
Likewise, you make reindeer milk chocolate, in the form of a reindeer, and sell that. And finally, you market a triple-creamy Bullwinkle's Butter, made from moose milk. Duuude! Marketing looks done! ("Triple-creamy Bullwinkle's Butter"?) Get a move on with this dream! 23% fat? Moose and Squirrel Milk Shakes! Whatchoo waiting for? Seriously...
You're making me uncomfortable. LOL Heh...(now that you mention it)
Since we've had a number of posts now based on this reindeer "farmer", I thought I'd mention a bit more about him. He's a Santa impersonator and his thing is getting his reindeer to pull a sleigh in parades and at special events. I can't find a picture of them actually pulling the sleigh. Bentivolio said he took up acting in movies to get rid of his stage fright in front of cameras. In 2010, he acted in the low budget movie Lucy's Law in the role of a TV News reporter.[9] In 2011, he appeared in another low budget political satire, The President Goes to Heaven.[10] . . . Bentivolio's wife Karen is a registered nurse. They have resided in Milford, Michigan since 1982 and live on a small farm raising reindeer trained to pull Santa’s sleigh in various parades and special holiday events within Michigan. They also maintain a small flock of chickens, a 25-hive apiary of honeybees, and a 115-vine vineyard. Bentivolio is an avid sportsman and bass fisherman. He is a novice golfer and enjoys clay pigeon shooting.[49] I don't think he milks the reindeer or the chickens. I have to wonder if he's brave enough to stand that close to the reindeer bucks during the rut. I know I wouldn't.
It would be in that price range, I think. At least initially.
Bwaahaa!
Dunno about that; the menage a buck look kinda...happy. Especially the mammal in the middle.
I like the bovine faces of the reindeer and their larger bodies (more meat/milk) and fur type. More attractive than deer or mooses (who have been known to bite your sister). The reindeer faces/bodies remind me more of cattle.
Remember, I'm Basque AND Sami. Basques have been fishing herring and milking sheep for something like 40,000 years. And Sami have been fishing herring and milking reindeer for about 30,000. The reindeer thing (and moose) is already a think in Samiland - has been since before anybody walked into America from Alaksa. But milking the WHITE TAILS, our kind of deer way down here - THAT is a new thing! Not hard to see why. Cows and yaks and buffalo are relatively docile (bison aren't - and nobody milked them), and sheep and goats are relatively docile and small, so you can manhandle them. There are those things wherever there are whitetails, and deer don't have the same production. So, to milk the deer would have meant trying to tame an immensely skittish, dangerously strong animal you can't manhandle, and that can get away, and kick the hell out of you...in other words, you get hurt a lot, and you get maybe a cup of milk out of them for your troubles. And the males will kill you during certain seasons (not that you're going to be milking the males (...not that there's anything wrong with that...)). OR you could just get three cups of milk everyday from a little goat that isn't going to randomly go berserk and kick you to death. Deer are hard. Reindeer are quite a bit more docile. You can actually harness them up to pull a sleight. Moose also. Try pulling a sleigh with whitetails. Think of the insane, tangled, braying, kicking goat rope that would be! There's a reason that we haven't tried this yet. But there's a reason to do it. Truth is, forests are good and clean the air, but they are really not economically productive at all, unless you chop them down (and then you h'ain't got no more forest). The deer naturally thrive in woodland, so if you turn them into vast semi- domesticated dairy herds, the forest becomes a source of ongoing meat, milk and soft deer leather that is native to the environment and does not require anything like the endless care that other dairy animals require. The forested vastness of Canada and Siberia is mostly uninhabited and has no economic function or much of a future other than to become Japanese chopsticks. Systematize cervid dairy, and suddenly there is a modest but steady stream of useful products that will generate more economic return and employ quite a few more people than simply slashing down the taiga. Also, because the milk is unique, wild and healthy, and a new thing, it could be done in a very different way. If you run the taiga whitetail farms (and red deer also) as wild organic no-kill, you could create a food supply for the animal loving niche, and no-kill soft leather.
Moose bytes kan be pretti nasti!
Those aren't necessarily bucks. The thing with reindeer. In the summer, the males have antlers to compete for females. But as winter comes, the male antlers fall off and the females grow antlers, which form a redoubtable antler wall around the babies when the snows come. The relatively defenseless males get eaten in the winter by the wolves, while the antlered females circle and defend their babies and themselves. Come spring, the females lose their antlers and the males gain theirs. So, when you look at Santa's sleigh, you note that all of the reindeer have antlers, and it's winter, which means that Dasher, Dancer, Prancer, Vixen, Comet, Cupid, Donner and Blitzen are all females. Rudolph is confused.
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#24. To: Tooconservative (#22)
BTW, you may have missed the latest reindeer news.
#25. To: Vicomte13 (#24)
Now THAT's good stuff! If I win the lottery, I'm going to do it: milk the white-tails! It's proven technology with the reindeer, so let's take it to the next step!
#26. To: Vicomte13 (#24)
Now THAT's good stuff! If I win the lottery, I'm going to do it: milk the white-tails! It's proven technology with the reindeer, so let's take it to the next step!
#27. To: Tooconservative (#26)
(Edited)
I am curious: have you ever even milked a cow? Or a goat? Both are a lot more domesticated than any deer or reindeer.
#28. To: Vicomte13 (#27)
(Edited)
#29. To: Tooconservative (#28)
Your prospects of finding enough reliable teat-squeezing peasants may not be as rosy as you think. Even so, I wish you luck with finding them.
#30. To: Vicomte13 (#29)
I always figured that I would have an easier time persuading the Russians to let me turn Siberia into a vast set of linked farms than persuading any American state to let me turn the wild whitetails into a semi-domesticated herd.
#31. To: Tooconservative (#30)
#32. To: Vicomte13 (#31)
#33. To: Tooconservative (#26)
have you ever even milked a cow?
#34. To: Vicomte13 (#27)
teat-squeezing and hire peasants to do that part.
#35. To: Vicomte13, TooConservative, Liberator (#29)
In the US, I would prefer to use prisoners. Handling their own animals often makes really bad men better than they were.
#36. To: Vicomte13 (#31)
#37. To: Tooconservative, Vicomte13, redleghunter (#32)
I still think it would be difficult to line up and milk reindeer with milking machines. And they still only would produce something like two quarts of milk per day. A dairy cow can produce gallons.
#38. To: redleghunter, Tooconservative, Vicomte13 (#33)
Yeah watch the closest hind leg closely.
#39. To: redleghunter (#34)
You will at least need 8 maids a milking.
#40. To: redleghunter, Vicomte13, TooConservative (#35)
In Texas some Juvenile Corrections facilities teach ranching/farming skills. That could be a ministry for you Vic. Come on down to Texas and leave behind your Yankee ways (as I did). :)
#41. To: redleghunter (#33)
(Edited)
Yeah watch the closest hind leg closely.
#42. To: Liberator, redleghunter, Vicomte13 (#37)
The couple quarts + untrainable reindeer does present logistics probs if the intent is commercial liability.
#43. To: Tooconservative (#42)
I'm not saying the reindeer are untrainable, just undomesticated.
#44. To: Liberator, Vicomte13, redleghunter (#37)
The couple quarts + untrainable reindeer does present logistics probs if the intent is commercial liability.
Reindeer milk. Reindeer Mozzarella. Reindeer yogurt. Hmmm...
#45. To: Liberator, Vicomte13, redleghunter (#43)
(Edited)
So...IF they can become domesticated, it is plausible they will hold still and cooperate for a quart or two per day?
Don't like those odds. And timing. As a Joisey guy, I think I'd rather roll the dice and brave the lunatics in the dairy section of Walmart. WAIT....
#46. To: redleghunter (#35)
Come on down to Texas and leave behind your Yankee ways
#47. To: Tooconservative (#32)
Siberia aside, I still think it would be difficult to line up and milk reindeer with milking machines...You would really have to have a market demand t
#48. To: Tooconservative (#44)
#49. To: Vicomte13 (#47)
(Edited)
Reindeer, moose and elk are skittish. You have to do it by hand.
Market demand is easy to generate. You take the milk and you make gjetost desert cheese out of it.
And finally, you market a triple-creamy Bullwinkle's Butter, made from moose milk.
#50. To: Vicomte13 (#48)
(Edited)
And once you've milked the white-tails, Bambi Brand And Hart Healthy Elk milk.
#51. To: Tooconservative, Vicomte13, redleghunter (#44)
Just for fun, do it all in remote Siberia.
#52. To: Tooconservative, Vicomte13, redleghunter (#45)
You only need to get them to walk into their milking stall and hold still for five minutes twice a day. And they do have some discomfort if they aren't milked so that works for you.
#53. To: Vicomte13, Tooconservative, releghunter (#47)
Market demand is easy to generate. You take the milk and you make gjetost desert cheese out of it. You cut it into three ounce blocks and you put it in green, red and white wrapping with a picture of Santa's face and reindeer, and you market it at Christmastime as "Santa's own" - genuine reindeer milk cheese. You sell it for $15 a cube.
#54. To: Tooconservative (#49)
("And finally, you market a triple-creamy Bullwinkle's Butter, made from moose milk.")
#55. To: All, Vicomte13, redleghunter, Liberator (#22)
(Edited)
TheLibertyConservative: Reindeer Farmer Turned Congressman Hopes To Regain Lost House Seat In 2018
Bentiviolio has worked as an autoworker, reindeer rancher, automotive designer, teacher, commercial home builder, Santa Claus for hire, and amateur actor before running for political office.[6][8] He taught in private schools, public schools, and adult education institutions. 
#56. To: Liberator (#52)
I can see Whole Foods carrying Reindeer milk. Say $12 per quart (is that enough??)
#57. To: Tooconservative (#55)
I don't think he milks the reindeer or the chickens.
#58. To: Tooconservative (#55)
I have to wonder if he's brave enough to stand that close to the reindeer bucks during the rut.
#59. To: Liberator (#58)
#60. To: Tooconservative (#49)
It may take a generation or so.
#61. To: Tooconservative (#59)
who have been known to bite your sister
#62. To: Tooconservative (#55)
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