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Title: Video claims shooter dressed as police
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URL Source: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=LAS+VEGAS ... a=videos&iax=1&iai=qMxn7hpXmk4
Published: Oct 8, 2017
Author: Planet X Investigations
Post Date: 2017-10-08 15:41:01 by A K A Stone
Keywords: None
Views: 57183
Comments: 186
Video claims shooter dressed as police Poster Comment: Video claims shooter dressed as police
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#83. To: nolu chan (#81)
(Edited)
SMH. Attention to detail isn't your forte. Neither 1280 nor 1208 are on the graphic What does this mean?
Even if the audio capture hasn't been altered there are still parameters required to make the ballistic calculations to "prove" his conclusion of a second shooter. http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi Nobody knows what weapon or ammunition was used - so any attempt to fill in those parameters is, at best, only a guess.
As I can do simple calculation, unlike you, I need no additional source to discover the bullshit. Sound cannot travel 1280 feet to a target and come back to the taxi, and travel a total distance of 1280 feet. Not even a super genius can make sound do that. But that is what you claimed, that the sound traveled a total distance of 1280 feet, based solely on the taxi driver recording.
It means that total distance the time traveled is two times the echo travel distance. T1 on the taxi recording is almost instantaneous after the shot, a very short travel distance. Then the sound traveled 1208 feet to the target area, and at least 1208 feet back (unobstructed). Do arithmetic much? The total distance will be double the distance if unobstructed and reflected by something at the target area straight back to the taxi. If the sound travels another mile and gets reflected back from a distant building, it would take even longer.
No, it means the number "1208" (and 1280) isn't referenced by that graphic because the audio data on that graphic pertains to a completely different discussion of a completely different audio data set.
What is 2612.57 / 2? This is an open book quiz. The answers are ECHO'd on the graphic.
Nice straw man you've got there. No strawman or putting words in his mouth. Here are his exact words. At #42 he stated, all in reference to the Taxi Driver video: T1 is at the taxi. T2 is out and back and also recorded at the taxi. Echo distance is NOT the distance traveled from the aiming point to the point of origin. It is the time between T1 as recorded at the taxi, and T2 as recorded at the taxi. T1 and T2 are derived solely from the recording at the taxi, and do not tell either the point of origin or the point of aim. T2 could have reached the taxi by being reflected off anything the sound wave hit. If the distance between the taxi and the target were 400 yards, then for the sound to have come from the target area back to the taxi would require a total travel of 800 yards. At #43, he claims, in refrence to T1 and T2 on the taxi recording: "Total distance: T2 - T1 is the difference in the time of arrival at the taxi, and the time to travel to a reflective surface and to make the return trip to the taxi. If that indicates the total distance sound traveled of 1280 feet, the sound would have to have been reflected from not more than 640 feet away. >>What do you mean by report, if not an echo? As any Boy Scout with one of these... ...should know: https://duckduckgo.com/? q=An+explosive+noise%3A+the+report+of+a+rifle >>And just how did you calculate such a remarkable result for distance? { blah blah blah wikispew} I used the same speed I used in my other analysis (appended below) - based upon an air temperature of 72 degrees Then I calculated the difference in time between the last bullet sound (T1) and the corresponding last report sound (T2). T2-T1 = time the report traveled = 1.07 1.07 * FPS of 1130.8 = 1208.8 ========================== Conclusion: Burst B is NOT two weapons being fired simultaneously. It is one weapon being fired at a more distant target. The longer distance, observable in the period between Burst B's T1 and T2, manifests a corresponding longer period of reverb. It is the reverb that is being incorrectly interpreted as a second weapon (and second shooter) firing at the same time. Research resources:
You are just yukon being yukon. This is not a quiz. Consider it your final exam. You FAILED. If the distance from the taxi to the point the sound was reflected back is 400 yards, the sound had to travel a total distance of 800 yards, or about 2400 feet. Keep digging. With yourself for an expert source, it is no wonder that your conclusion is impossible bullshit. If T2 - T1 at the taxi were to indicate a total distance of sound travel of 400 yards, the sound went 200 yards to get to a reflective surface and 200 yards to come back to the taxi.
Who is we? https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/02/shooter-las-vegas-strip-police.html Deadliest shooting in modern US history leaves at least 59 dead, 500+ injured in Las Vegas Arjun Kharpal and| Michael Sheetz [Excerpt] The FBI requested that anyone with video or photos regarding the shooting call 1-800-225-5324.
Regarding your Digital Audio Workstation (DAW) for music, you might indicate what the abbreviation stands for, and with Sonar, you might indicate that it is a company brand name, and does not relate to SONAR. Sonar DAW available starting at $49.95.
There is also a noticeable lack of muzzle flashes from the 32nd floor. Initial shots at 3:12. Tall Ace of Spades Most footage doesn't capture the real, initial, non automatic shots shown here that the shooter probably used as test shots before using the bump stock and continuous fire when the next song starts. People are clearly trying to leave the scene shortly after the initial shots which start at 3:12.
Regarding the video referenced by this thread: "Video claims shooter dressed as police" This research paper - http:// www.btgresearch.org/AcousticReconstruction02042012.pdf describes, as part of their methodology, using an audio spectrogram to differentiate between impact sound and muzzle report sound. The spectrogram capabilities of my DAW are very limited so I looked around for a free utility and, not finding anything suitable, decided to build my own utility for creating a spectrogram. Here's what I'm seeing in the relevant section of audio referenced in the "Video [that] claims shooter dressed as police". * This audio was filtered to remove as much of the crowd noise as possible. This is just a progress report. I will document the complete methodology as time allows.
Yep. You've already demonstrated you can cut and paste. Two completely different sets of sound events and data being discussed and confused there. Now again - per the data in my graphic: What is 2612.57 / 2? This is an open book quiz. The answers are ECHO'd on the graphic.
Two completely different sets of sound events and data being discussed and confused there. yukon, you have derived T1 and T2 from the Taxi recording. The difference in the times does not reveal point of origin or point of aim. The difference in the two times can be used to derive the length of time for sound to travel to a reflective surface and return. A total distance of 1,280 feet would be for a round trip. Half of that would put the reflective point at 640 feet, and your bullshit would show a shooter midway between the taxi and the taxi and the music venue. FAIL.
Where are you getting 1,280 from?
1208. Feel better? It is still bullshit. T1 And T2 were explicitly derived from the same Taxi tape. If the total distance the sound traveled is 1208 feet, and the sound went from the taxi and came back, the furthest point the sound got to was about 604 feet away. Prove that wrong.
1208 isn't not on my graphic/meme with the "Taxi Driver Video" URL referenced at the bottom though, is it. Why is that?
Nope. T1 and T2 are just generic labels for Time 1 and Time 2. Look at my meme again - note the rows Labeled "Burst A" and "Burst B" There's a column for T1 and a column for T2 "Burst A" has a T1 and T2, and "Burst B" has a T1 and T2 See the ECHO distance and Total distance columns?
Nope. T1 and T2 are just generic labels for Time 1 and Time 2. In your #42, you provided two Youtube links which were broken with extra spaces in the middle. I have them below in a usable form. Anyone may observe clearly that the first is a link to 1m7s mark of the video, and the second is a link to the 1m24s mark of the same video, i.e. 14 seconds apart. Points 14 seconds apart were chosen because REASONS. Anyone going to either link will find themselves in the Taxi Lady video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBbOFwWquAw&feature=youtu.be&t=1m7s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBbOFwWquAw&feature=youtu.be&t=1m24s https://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=53025&Disp=42#C42 And here are your exact words at #42 (emphasis added) I used the same speed I used in my other analysis (appended below) - based upon an air temperature of 72 degrees Then I calculated the difference in time between the last bullet sound (T1) and the corresponding last report sound (T2). [graphic omitted] T2-T1 = time the report traveled = 1.07 1.07 * FPS of 1130.8 = 1208.8 ========================== [graphic omitted] An analysis of two sequential burts of gunfire between: NOTE: "1.07 * FPS of 1130.8 = 1208.8" is incorrect. 1.07 * 1130.8 = 1209.956. NOTE: In the next mention FPS is 1130 ft per second at 72 degrees. NOTE: If you are measuring time between two different gunshots, rather than a shot and its own echo, you cannot derive distance. You would be measuring the time between two shots, saying nothing of distance about either one. The sounds are all from the Taxi Lady recording. These sounds do not give the aiming point, or point of origin of the shots. These sounds give the time sounds were recorded at the taxi. A sound that traveled 1.07 seconds at the speed of sound went 1,209.1 feet. (1,130 * 1.07) You cannot measure the Echo Distance from the aiming point back to the point of origin as there is no recording at the point of origin, the point of origin being the 32nd floor (supposedly). Both links go to the taxi video. The Echo Distance is from the point the sound reflected back, to the taxi location where it was recorded, following the path of the sound at ground level back to the taxi. What is recorded on the Taxi Lady video is the sound that traveled from the 32nd floor to the taxi, and whatever may have come from elsewhere as a sound reflected back. For a sound and its echo to show up on the taxi video at a 1.07 second interval, it had to travel to a reflective surface and back in 1.07 seconds, going a total distance of 1,209.1 feet. The event venue was about 400 yards away. For any recorded echo, the sound of the shot had to travel to the taxi, and the sound also had to travel from the 32nd floor to a reflecting surface and come back to the taxi. If the echo came from the venue area, 400 yards away, the echoed sound had to travel 400 yards to a reflective surface, then turn around and travel at least 400 yards, if the path were unobstructed at ground level, to the taxi location. If 1,209.1 feet were one way, the round trip out and back to the 32nd floor would be about 2,418.2 feet. The path back to the taxi, if unobstructed would be somewhat shorter, as 1,209.1 would be the hypotenuse of a triangle, with the distance back to the taxi being the long side of the right triangle, if unobstructed. Any obstructions at ground level would cause the sound to take an indirect path back to the taxi. You can make pretty graphics, and wonderful word salads, and throw around terms like relativity, but you cannot do simple calculation. Your analysis is pretty, but it is complete bullshit. No echo traveled to the venue and returned in 1.07 seconds. For a sound recorded in the taxi, there can be no corresponding echo of that sound recorded 1.07 seconds later in the taxi, if the echo came from the venue area. As relativity goes, you're relatively incompetent.
Psst - T1 T2 Elapsed Time Total Distance https://libertysflame.com/cgi- bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=53025&Disp=46#C46 I've move on with the correct calculation: But hey - You go ahead and obsess on 1208.
You are confusing TWO separate analysis - The one on the left pertains to audio from video recorded at the target - which is the subject of this thread "Video claims shooter dressed as police" The one on the right pertains to audio recorded by the Taxi Driver. Please explain to the class what the 1.0612 value under Ts=d/Vs is, and why T= Tb-Ts is the CORRECT calculation, incorporating muzzle velocity and ballistic deceleration, required to determine the distance to the shooter.
It means you can put numbers into somebody's chart and present columns in fancy colors and lines with shadows. And then you can ask questions about what it all means. The link up top looks interesting but does not work.
Nope. 1. That's not what 1.0612 is. 2. It's not "somebody's chart" - It's a spreadsheet I created per the research methodology described on the "link" which works just fine: http://www.btgresearch.org/impactsound.pdf http://www.btgresearch.org/AcousticReconstruction02042012.pdf
Not only did four people answer, but they answered from four different distances.
{ crickets crickets crickets }
https://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=53025&Disp=103#C103 The first thing wrong with your spreadsheet chartoon is that column 3 is defined as [Vel x + y in ft/s]. You do not define x or y. You did not provide the exact rifle and barrel length. As for ammunition, your chartoon specified .223. In your spreadsheet chartoon, you specified 62 grain, but fail to say what or why. A popular 223 is Remington Metal Case, 55 grain. It provides 3239 fps. Heavier 62 grain ammunition tends to go slower. Do you think .223 American Eagle (Federal) FMJ 62 grain ammunition was used. It provides 3,020 initial velocity. Do you think Remington Core-Lokt 62 grain ammunition was used. It provides 3100 fps initial velocity. Perhaps an Ultramax FMJ 62 grain. That provides 2925 fps. Perhaps a UMC Remington Flat Base Closed Tip 62 grain. That provides 3100 fps. Perhaps USA (Winchester) FMJ 62 grain. That provides 3100 fps. http://gundata.org/ballistic-calculator/ That was all the .223, 62 grain ammo I saw. What 62 grain ammunition did you calculate? You claim an initial velocity of 3,240 fps. https://www.federalpremium.com/ammunition/rifle/family/american-eagle/american-eagle-rifle/ae223 223 Rem. Full Metal Jacket Boat-Tail ammunition provides 3240 muzzle velocity, however, it is 55 grain, not 62 grain. You did not provide calculations on the spreadsheet chartoon you created. Your showing of two different times on the taxi driver video is pure bullshit. You have no idea of the delay of the muzzle blast to the taxi, or the route the sound took. You do not account the time that sound is traveling at least 341 feet while the bullet is traveling. You have no idea of where the sound turned around to come back to the taxi, or what path the sound took to return to the taxi. Your echo chartoon describes itself as "Test for ECHO." The formula you are making believe you are using specifies things that have nothing to do with taxi driver distant echo recordings. "A microphone was placed near the muzzle to record both the muzzle blast and the sound of the bullet hitting the deer." The recording for this method is of the nearby muzzle blast and the sound of the bullet hitting the target. In the Las Vegas taxi, you have a shooter 338 feet up, and the taxi is down, to the side, and out from the hotel. The gunman is around the corner from the taxi, and you have an echo of the muzzle blast coming back, from an unknown reflecting surface, via an unknown indirect route to the taxi which is at ground level and not line of sight. http://gundata.org/blog/post/223-ballistics-chart/ 400 [Range] You claim to rely on a specific research paper. http://www.btgresearch.org/impactsound.pdf By: Michael Courtney, PhD, and Amy Courtney, PhD, Ballistics Testing Group, Western Carolina University, Cullowhee, NC Key Words: acoustic, reconstruction, shooting Abstract The sound of a bullet hitting a target is sometimes discernable in an audio recording of a shooting event and can be used to determine the distance from shooter to target. This paper provides an example where the microphone is adjacent to the shooter and presents the simple math needed in cases where the microphone is adjacent to the target. [...] Introduction With surveillance systems becoming more ubiquitous in society, the number of shooting events being captured on audio is rapidly increasing. The sound of a bullet hitting a living target is very loud, almost as loud as the muzzle blast. This allows determination of the distance between the shooter and target if the time of the muzzle blast and target strike can be determined from an audio recording. If the location of the target is known, this greatly narrows possible locations of the shooter. Method Deer were shot with a muzzleloader shooting saboted .40 caliber pistol bullets impacting at velocities typical of the .40 S&W cartridge (1350 fps for a 135 grain bullet). A microphone was placed near the muzzle to record both the muzzle blast and the sound of the bullet hitting the deer. The time recorded between the muzzle blast and bullet striking the target represents the sum of the bullet time of flight (tb) and the time for the sound to return to the microphone from the target (ts), t = ts + tb = d/Vs + d/Vb where d is the target distance, Vs is the velocity of sound, and Vb is the average bullet velocity over the distance. Vb depends on the distance, because the bullet is slowing in flight due to air resistance. Consequently, this equation must be solved using a ballistic calculator [1] and an iterative technique where one guesses different distances and computes the resulting ts and tb until there is agreement with the observed total time. The ballistic calculator requires knowing the muzzle velocity, ballistic coefficient of the bullet, air temperature, relative humidity, barometric pressure, and altitude. Converging on a distance is not hard since the total time is a monotonic and nearly linear function of the distance. [...] Note: the formula cited above is NOT the one cited by you. It relies on a microphone close to the muzzle also being close enough to the target to pick up the sound of the bullets striking, not an echo of the muzzle blast returning from some unknown point. = = = = = = = = = = http://www.btgresearch.org/AcousticReconstruction02042012.pdf At page 5: These results show that it is possible to use an audio recording of a shooting event to accurately determine the distance between the target and shooter. In cases where the location of the microphone is different, the mathematical details are different, but the ideas are the same. For example, if the microphone is adjacent to the victim (such as a 911 recording might be), the equation for determining the distance becomes: t = tb — ts = d/Vb — d/Vs Directly above is the precise formula you have cited on your spreadsheet chartoon: Did you have a victim in the taxi? This formula only applies where the microphone is close to the victim (the target). The discussion continues, The last part is what The Health Ranger used, and what I expanded upon. At page 6, The only audio recordings you linked to are that of the Taxi Driver. The Taxi Driver recordings are irrelevant to the formula you cite. T2 - T1 is not the time some report traveled. It is time difference between the time of the bullet arrival report and the sound arrival report. If your dippy calculation were correct, and the bullet were subsonic, T1 would be larger than T2, the the time some mythical report traveled would be a negative number. T2 - T1 is larger or smaller depending on the difference between the speed of the bullet and the speed of sound. If the difference of the flight time of the bullet and sound at 1200 feet were .2 seconds, you would calculate (T2 - T1) the muzzle report traveled 400 yards in .2 seconds. The speed of sound would still take 1.06 seconds to travel 1200 feet. Regardless of what T2 - T1 indicates, the muzzle report will travel 1200 feet in 1.06 seconds. The difference between the two report times indicates the difference in the velocity of time and the velocity of the bullet. If the sound took 1.06 seconds, the distance was 1200 feet. With the known distance, the velocity of the bullet can be calculated. If the bullet took 0.2 seconds less, the bullet made the trip in 0.86 seconds. Your T2 - T1 calculation is complete nonsense. Picking back up with your spreadsheet chartoon, you seem to have some fascination with the number 1.062. This number is not directly relevant to the Las Vegas shootings, but is the time for sound, adjusted for specific conditions, to travel 400 yards or 1200 feet at 1130 feet per second. Nothing in particular is known to have happened where the bullet traveled 400 yards or 1200 feet at ground level. 1200 feet is not the distance from the window in Paddock's room to anything in particular identified with the case. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/02/us/mandalay-bay-vegas-shooting.html New York Times Here is where 400 yards or 1200 feet come from. It is an estimated distance between Mandalay Bay and the Harvest Festival stage, at ground level, based on a Google image.
DOOD! Target shooting was invented to keep people like you distracted so you don't get bored and hurt yourselves. If you don't already do it,start tomorrow! You owe it to your obsessive self. In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
No - as I've explained multiple times before. The two images are of two SEPARATE analysis. The one on the left references Audio taken by the taxi driver, the one on the right references audio recorded on the field. >>The only audio recordings you linked to are that of the Taxi Driver. Bzzt. FAIL again. https://youtu.be/kcjYefWRsKU?t=8 and That's the audio referenced by the 2nd meme.
So - how'bout you go download the free tools required to create an amplitude graph of this section of audio: https://youtu.be/kcjYefWRsKU?t=8 and and tell us what the time you measure between the last bullet sound and the last report sound is? Then you can tell us all what that means.
https://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=53025&Disp=32#C32 https://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=53025&Disp=32#C32 1.07 seconds between T1 and T2 = 1208 ft. 1208 ft from the Mandalay Bay, per Google earth, puts us right about where the video is being taken. No, nitwit. 1.07 seconds would be the time differential between the flight time of the bullet and the time of sound to reach the recording point. Sound travels 1208 feet in 1.07 seconds. If the sound went 1208 feet and arrived in 1.07 seconds, and the bullet arrived 1.07 seconds before the sound, the bullet took 0.00 seconds in flight time. Try again.
LOL. You're like a senile backseat driver who obsessively complains about (keeps pasting from) a wrong turn taken by a taxi driver 1.07 years ago while they were delivering you, on time (relatively speaking), to a compulsory (coincidental to the phase of the Moon) monthly appointment with your neurologist/psychotherapist. I made a wrong turn, corrected it - and moved on. https://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi? ArtNum=53025&Disp=46#C46 YOU Try again. Go ahead - download those tools and show us how its done! YOU - create an amplitude graph of this section of audio: https://youtu.be/kcjYefWRsKU?t=8 and and tell us what the time you measure between the last bullet sound and the last report sound is?
You drove into a ditch. You are still in it, spinning your wheels.
Yeah, you make believe that the sounds recorded in the taxi can yield an accurate measurement of distance. The problem, of course, is related in your reference study. http://www.btgresearch.org/AcousticReconstruction02042012.pdf Using Sound of Target Impact for Acoustic Reconstructions of Shooting Events At page 2: t = ts + tb = d/Vs + d/Vb where d is the target distance, Vs is the velocity of sound, and Vb is the average bullet velocity over the distance. At page 5: At page 6: Your recording is at a taxi nearly 400 feet away from the muzzle. You can do all the calculations you desire and the microphone will be no closer to the muzzle. The muzzle was likely around the corner, about 340 feet up, and some angular distance away from the microphone in the taxi. There was no direct path for the sound to reach the taxi. The taxi did not pick up the sounds of the bullets striking people on the ground over 1200 feet away. The muzzle blast echoed back, but you do not know where from, or what path it took to the taxi at ground level. A taxi recording indicates the muzzle blast with a delay by the time the sound took to reach the taxi, about .35 seconds at 400 feet. During that delay, the muzzle blast is on its way to some reflective surface which redirects the sound by some route to the taxi at ground level. The elapsed time at the 400 foot distant taxi is not the elapsed time of the muzzle burst soundwave out and back. You ignored the ~0.35 second initial delay to reach the taxi, and you have no idea what reflective surface(s) redirected the sound before the echo arrived at the taxi. You do have a nice picture with circles on it though.
Nope. I only referenced that study for the 2nd analysis - of audio/video recorded on the field. That analysis was done to refute the claim that a 2nd shooter, dressed as a policeman, was firing on the field. The observable difference between the bullet and report sound events succinctly refutes the asserted "proof" of a 2nd shooter on the field. Regarding my initial meme "TEST FOR ECHO" -- Balistic data is NOT required to determine the total distance sound traveling from, and echoing back to, the ORIGIN point which is essentially where the Taxi driver was.
>>The taxi did not pick up the sounds of the bullets striking people on the ground over 1200 feet away I never said it did. The ECHO observed and discussed in the "TEST FOR ECHO" meme is not the sound of bullet impact - it is the reflected report. You do understand what REPORT is now, right? At least that's progress!
>>Your recording is at a taxi nearly 400 feet away from the muzzle "our reporting suggests that Paddock was positioned directly above the camera at this point" https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000005473328/las-vegas- shooting-timeline-12-bursts.html 1. That's not 400 feet. 2. Imagine a firehose at an elevated position on the shore of a lake pointing the stream of water at a point on the surface 1200 feet away. Now, for the water, substitute the stream of shockwaves coming from the muzzle - and for the surface of the lake - the ground. 3. What's your explanation for the difference between the echo times observed for Burst A and Burst B? The shooter hasn't moved. The taxi hasn't moved. What's different? The angle the hose is pointing?
The taxi was hardly at or near the origin point. It was 338+ feet away. The study placed a microphone "a few centimers" from the muzzle, not 10,302+ centimeters away. The taxi was 338 feet down, some distance out from the building. Even if directly opposite the taxi, the muzzle had to travel 338+ feet to get to the taxi. That still take 0.299 seconds for the muzzle blast to reach the taxi from 338 feet. Adjusting for your cited claim (at #118) that NYT reporting "suggests that Paddock was positioned directly above the camera at this point," with the taxi directly below the window, your blather has not materially changed the problem with your chartoon. The taxi microphone was not a few centimeters from the muzzle, it was over 338 feet away. The problem, of course, is related in your reference study. http://www.btgresearch.org/AcousticReconstruction02042012.pdf Using Sound of Target Impact for Acoustic Reconstructions of Shooting Events At page 2: t = ts + tb = d/Vs + d/Vb where d is the target distance, Vs is the velocity of sound, and Vb is the average bullet velocity over the distance. At page 5: At page 6: Your recording is at a taxi over 338 feet away from the muzzle. You can do all the calculations you desire and the microphone will be no closer to the muzzle. The muzzle was likely around the corner, about 338 feet up, and some angular distance away from the microphone in the taxi. The taxi did not pick up the sounds of the bullets striking people on the ground over 1200 feet away. The muzzle blast echoed back, but you do not know where from, or what path it took to the taxi at ground level. A taxi recording indicates the muzzle blast with a delay by the time the sound took to reach the taxi, about .299 seconds at 338 feet. During that delay, the muzzle blast is on its way to some reflective surface which redirects the sound by some route to the taxi at ground level. The elapsed time at the 338+ foot distant taxi is not the elapsed time of the muzzle burst soundwave out and back. You ignored the ~0.299 second initial delay to reach the taxi, and you have no idea what reflective surface(s) redirected the sound before the echo arrived at the taxi. You do have a nice picture with circles on it though. Also, as there was no firearm seen protruding from any window, if Paddock was the shooter, he and the firearm were inside the room. The sound of muzzle blast had to travel out through the hole in the window in a directional manner. No straight path to the taxi was available.
The report of what, reflected from what surface?
Which is irrelevant for the purpose of measuring the elapsed time between the initial Report sound event and the corresponding Echo event at the same location, at the bottom of the wall directly beneath the shooter.
Explain the difference between the Echos observed in Burst A and Burst B. The shooter is in the same position. The taxi is in the same position. The "reflective surfaces" haven't moved. And the surface of the ground, along which the report shockwave radiated back from SOMEWHERE (probably closely relative to the aiming point), hasn't moved either.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestWhat sound cannot do is zing into something 1,280 feet away,
#84. To: buckeroo (#80)
(Edited)
He is claiming verifiable acoustic signature analysis based on somebody's cell phone audio capture that is not controlled in anyway.
#85. To: VxH (#74)
You didn't read this...
#86. To: VxH (#83)
What does this mean?
#87. To: nolu chan (#86)
(Edited)
#88. To: nolu chan (#86)
(Edited)
total distance will be double the distance
What is 7369.77 / 2?
#89. To: Tooconservative (#82)
You're putting your words in his mouth.
T1: Time from start of video (1minute N seconds) at the time of the last shot in the burst.
T2: Time from the start of the video (1minute N seconds) at the time of the echoed sound event corresponding to T1.
TempF: the air temperature (72 degrees F)
FPS: 1130 ft per second -- The speed of sound at 72 degrees F
Elapsed Time: T2 minus T1, the number of seconds between the last shot, and the echo of the last shot in each burst.
Total Distance: Elapsed Time * FPS = the total distance traveled between T1 and T2.
Echo Distance = The distance the echo traveled from the aiming point back to the point of origin.
1208.80" #42. To: nolu chan, A K A Stone, Tooconservative, Klingon Ambassador (#40) (Edited)
An analysis of two sequential burts of gunfire between:
["Taxi Driver Video" the Zapruder Film of the Las Vegas shooting UNCUT / UNEDITED]
https://www.youtube.com/watch ?v=mBbOFwWquAw&feature=youtu.be&t=1m7s
and
https://www.youtube.com/watc h?v=mBbOFwWquAw&feature=youtu.be&t=1m24s
===============
T1: Time from start of video (1minute N seconds) at the time of the last shot in the burst.
T2: Time from the start of the video (1minute N seconds) at the time of the echoed sound event corresponding to T1.
TempF: the air temperature (72 degrees F)
FPS: 1130 ft per second -- The speed of sound at 72 degrees F
Elapsed Time: T2 minus T1, the number of seconds between the last shot, and the echo of the last shot in each burst.
Total Distance: Elapsed Time * FPS = the total distance traveled between T1 and T2.
Echo Distance = The distance the echo traveled from the aiming point back to the point of origin.
===============
https://www.google.co m/search?biw=1544&bih=856&q=Forensic+Acoustics+gunfire
http://www.physic sclassroom.com/mmedia/waves/er.cfm
https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/usa/las- vegas/historic
http://www.csgnetwork.c om/soundspeedcalc.html
T1 T2 Elapsed Time Total Distance 17.689655 18.758621 1.068966 1208.80
Here's a snapshot with increased decimal precision and less rounded confusion :-}
#90. To: VxH (#88)
This is an open book quiz. The answers are ECHO'd on the graphic.
#91. To: Tooconservative, VxH, A K A Stone (#75)
I am curious that we have seen no reporting that police requested the concert goers to upload their videos from that night. Maybe the sheriff and the FBI have really dropped the ball on this.
CNBC
Published 2:11 AM ET Mon, 2 Oct 2017
Updated 1:53 PM ET Tue, 3 Oct 2017
#92. To: VxH, Tooconservative, A K A Stone (#73)
* My DAW (Sonar) doesn't appear to have the capability of capturing a sound spectrogram like the ones the authors of the study produced....
#93. To: VxH, Tooconservative (#47)
There is a video (somewhere in the haystack now) that has audio of what sounds like several single hp rifle cracks at the start of the shooting - presumably at the fuel tanks.
Las Vegas Shooting First Actual Shots - Rare
Published on Oct 7, 2017
#94. To: A K A Stone, TooConservative (#0)
* Lower frequency sounds (the muzzle reports) are graphed at the top - higher energy sounds towards at the bottom.
* More work to be done adding time and frequency indexes, zooming, anotating etc but it looks promising.
#95. To: nolu chan (#89)
(Edited)
What is 7369.77 / 2?
#96. To: VxH (#95)
Yep. You've already demonstrated you can cut and paste.
#97. To: nolu chan (#96)
#98. To: VxH (#97)
Where are you getting 1,280 from?
#99. To: nolu chan (#98)
(Edited)
1208. Feel better?
#100. To: nolu chan (#98)
(Edited)
T1 And T2 were explicitly derived from the same Taxi tape.
#101. To: VxH, A K A Stone (#100)
T1 And T2 were explicitly derived from the same Taxi tape.
["Taxi Driver Video" the Zapruder Film of the Las Vegas shooting
UNCUT / UNEDITED]
https://www.youtube.com/watch ?v=mBbOFwWquAw&feature=youtu.be&t=1m7s
and
https://www.youtube.com/watc h?v=mBbOFwWquAw&feature=youtu.be&t=1m24s
===============
T1: Time from start of video (1minute N seconds) at the time of the last shot in the burst.
T2: Time from the start of the video (1minute N seconds) at the time of the echoed sound event corresponding to T1.
TempF: the air temperature (72 degrees F)
FPS: 1130 ft per second -- The speed of sound at 72 degrees F
Elapsed Time: T2 minus T1, the number of seconds between the last shot, and the echo of the last shot in each burst.
Total Distance: Elapsed Time * FPS = the total distance traveled between T1 and T2.
Echo Distance = The distance the echo traveled from the aiming point back to the point of origin.
===============
#102. To: nolu chan (#101)
(Edited)
>>NOTE: "1.07 * FPS of 1130.8 = 1208.8" is incorrect. 1.07 * 1130.8 = 1209.956.
17.689655 18.758621 1.068966 1208.80
https://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi? ArtNum=53025&Disp=43#C43
I've already acknowledged that 1208 and the associated 1.07 seconds was the wrong calculation.
https://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi? ArtNum=53025&Disp=73#C73
#103. To: nolu chan (#101)
(Edited)
#104. To: VxH (#103)
Please explain to the class what the 1.0612 value under Ts=d/Vs is, and why T= Tb-Ts is the CORRECT calculation, incorporating muzzle velocity and ballistic deceleration, required to determine the distance to the shooter.
#105. To: nolu chan, A K A Stone, TooConservative (#104)
(Edited)
It means you can put numbers into somebody's chart
#106. To: misterwhite (#62)
I was hiking in the mountains and I yelled, "Hello". Right after that I heard four other people yell 'hello', one after the other. And here I thought I was alone.
#107. To: All (#105)
#108. To: VxH, A K A Stone, Tooconservative, sneakypete (#107)
.223 Remington, Remington Metal Case, 55gr
-31.7981 [Drop inches]
1588 [Velocity]
308 [Energy]
532 [Time, Milliseconds) Using Sound of Target Impact for Acoustic Reconstructions of Shooting Events
Discussion
If the muzzle blast duration obscures the sound of the bullet hitting the target, simple inspection of the sound waveform is insufficient. Filtering techniques or spectrogram generation might recover the time of the target hit [1], or determination of the target hit might not be possible. However, in cases where the microphone is adjacent to the target and the bullet is supersonic, the sound of the bullet hitting the target occurs first, so it cannot be obscured by the muzzle blast.
A significant weakness in the study is the placement of the microphone near the muzzle of the gun, an unlikely location in most forensic cases, except for possible reconstructions of self-defense claims where the event is captured on a recording of the emergency call, officer involved shootings where the event is captured on a duty radio or other nearby microphone, and cases where the distance to the target is important to determining whether a soldier followed the applicable rules of engagement.
Las Vegas Shooting: Chaos at a Concert
and a Frantic Search at Mandalay Bay
UPDATED 10:30 PM ET, OCT. 2, 2017
#109. To: nolu chan (#108)
#110. To: nolu chan (#108)
(Edited)
Did you have a victim in the taxi?
[Original footage of las vegas shooting 50 filled 200 injured]
https://youtu.be/kcjYefWRsKU? t=22
#111. To: nolu chan (#108)
(Edited)
https://youtu.be/kcjYefWRsKU? t=22
Let's see if it's between 0.6126 and 0.7378
#112. To: VxH (#110)
Where T1 is the last bullet sound and T2 is the last report sound.
#113. To: nolu chan (#112)
(Edited)
https://youtu.be/kcjYefWRsKU? t=22
Let's see if it's between 0.6126 and 0.7378
#114. To: VxH (#113)
(Edited)
I made a wrong turn, corrected it - and moved on.
#115. To: VxH (#110)
The one on the left references Audio taken by the taxi driver
A microphone was placed a few centimeters from the muzzle to record both the muzzle blast and the sound of the bullet hitting the deer. The time recorded between the muzzle blast and bullet striking the target represents the sum of the bullet time of flight (tb) and the time for the sound to return to the microphone from the target (ts),
These results show that it is possible to use an audio recording of a shooting event to accurately determine the distance between the target and the shooter. In cases where the location of the microphone is different, the mathematical details are different, but the ideas are the same.
A significant weakness in the study is the placement of the microphone near the muzzle of the gun, an unlikely location in most forensic cases....
#116. To: nolu chan (#115)
(Edited)
The problem, of course, is related in your reference study.
#117. To: nolu chan (#115)
#118. To: nolu chan (#115)
(Edited)
#119. To: A K A Stone (#4)
Debunk it please.
What would the Elapsed time between the Last Report sound event and the Last Bullet sound event be if, as the video alleged, the guy "dressed as police" was shooting?
#120. To: VxH (#116)
Regarding my initial meme "TEST FOR ECHO" -- Balistic data is NOT required to determine the total distance sound traveling from, and echoing back to, the ORIGIN point which is essentially where the Taxi driver was.
Yeah, you make believe that the sounds recorded in the taxi can yield an accurate measurement of distance.
A microphone was placed a few centimeters from the muzzle to record both the muzzle blast and the sound of the bullet hitting the deer. The time recorded between the muzzle blast and bullet striking the target represents the sum of the bullet time of flight (tb) and the time for the sound to return to the microphone from the target (ts),
These results show that it is possible to use an audio recording of a shooting event to accurately determine the distance between the target and the shooter. In cases where the location of the microphone is different, the mathematical details are different, but the ideas are the same.
A significant weakness in the study is the placement of the microphone near the muzzle of the gun, an unlikely location in most forensic cases....
#121. To: VxH (#117)
The ECHO observed and discussed in the "TEST FOR ECHO" meme is not the sound of bullet impact - it is the reflected report.
#122. To: nolu chan (#120)
(Edited)
It was 338+ feet away.
#123. To: nolu chan (#121)
(Edited)
he report of what, reflected from what surface?
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