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Title: Trump doesn't want to say too much about the Las Vegas shooting because he's part of the problem (Liberal Puke)
Source: Independent
URL Source: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices ... ent-part-problem-a7978956.html
Published: Oct 2, 2017
Author: Will Gore
Post Date: 2017-10-02 10:29:58 by Willie Green
Keywords: None
Views: 2840
Comments: 42

Trump took to Twitter to offer his 'warm condolences' to the victims, in a turn of phrase that was archetypically odd. Notably he made no immediate comment about the identity of the killer, said to be a local white man in his 60s – and we know where he stands on the NRA

Las Vegas is the city that perhaps most obviously symbolises America’s love affair with the world of entertainment. Its themed hotels, the residencies of huge music stars, the casinos, the coloured illuminations: pulled together they offer the chance to be thrilled and, if you’re lucky, get rich – all under the gaze of a thousand fluorescent lightbulbs.

This morning, however, Vegas is facing up to a much darker reality following the death of at least 50 concertgoers at the hands of a mass murderer. The city that styles itself as the entertainment capital of the world is also now the holder of a much less wanted title as the site of America’s deadliest shooting. 

In the immediate aftermath of the killings, seemingly perpetrated by a man shooting into a crowd from his hotel balcony, thoughts turn to those who have died or been injured, and to the emergency services who have faced a scene of barely imaginable horror. How, we must all wonder, could a person inflict such deliberate pain and suffering on people who were innocently enjoying a musical show? It is a question we have asked in the UK this year too.

Donald Trump look to Twitter to offer his “warm condolences” to the victims, in a turn of phrase that was archetypically odd. Notably he made no immediate comment about the identity of the killer, said to be a local white man in his 60s, who does not fit Trump’s vision of a terrorist. There will be much debate about Trump’s reaction and about the terminology used to describe this tragedy.

Unavoidable too will be a reopening of that grand old American pastime: debating whether gun laws are to blame for a massacre.

The regulations in Nevada are lax, even by US standards. Permits and licences are, it seems, an unnecessary burden for people who want to hang around town tooled up to the nines. State law makes no particular reference to automatic weapons of the sort which appear to have been used in this incident, although federal legislation prohibits the possession of fully automatic weapons unless they were registered before 1986.

In some ways though, the legal minutiae can be a distraction. The basic facts are that gun homicides in America run into the thousands every year – over 12,000 in 2015, up markedly on the previous year. The number of suicides by shooting is also staggering: over 22,000 in 2015. All in all, up to 100,000 people annually will die or be injured as the result of gun use. All four of the biggest mass killings have happened in the last decade.

True, America’s annual firearm-related death rate (10.54 per 100,000 of population in 2014) compares well to some other countries – if those other countries happen to be Brazil (21.2) or El Salvador (45.6 in 2011). But set against France (2.83 in 2012), the UK (0.23 in 2011) or Australia (0.93 in 2013), it would take an ideologue or a madman to conclude that US gun policy is serving the country well.

President Obama recognised the lunacy of America’s attitude to guns. His rage at the deaths witnessed during his time in office became ever more apparent with every high-profile shooting; yet the rage was matched only by his inability to bring about sufficiently substantive change.

Obama’s successor is not cut from the same cloth; indeed, he has rallied the gun lobby to his side, declaring in a speech to the National Rifle Association (NRA) in April that his election had brought an “eight-year assault” on gun ownership rights to a “crashing end”. He has regularly trotted out the line beloved of those who support the right to bear arms – that if more people carried weapons there would be more “good guys” around to head off the “bad buys” when they strike. It is intellectual gibberish of the highest order.

The other favoured mantra of the NRA and its fans is that “it isn’t guns that kill, it’s humans”, which would be laughable for its disingenuousness if the consequences weren’t so severe.

Fifty people in Las Vegas would not be dead if a man had thrown punches or rocks from his hotel room instead of firing a machine gun. Bereaved families would not have to wonder if their loved ones died in excruciating pain from wounds inflicted by bullets. Emergency services would not be dealing with a shortage of blood supplies with which to treat the injured.

Trump will doubtless tell the world that this incident was the act of a lone wolf, perhaps a man who was mentally unstable. Maybe we will find out that the killer had access to an unlawful weapon. We may find he had ideological motives too. Trump will find excuses to avoid pinning responsibility on the US’s constitutional attachment to deadly firearms.

The truth that Trump will not face up to is that America’s disastrous relationship with guns is getting worse. Indeed, he cannot face up to it; because he, the entertainer-President, arch-appeaser of the gun lobby, is part of the problem. 

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 39.

#6. To: Willie Green (#0)

The regulations in Nevada are lax, even by US standards. Permits and licences are, it seems, an unnecessary burden for people who want to hang around town tooled up to the nines. State law makes no particular reference to automatic weapons of the sort which appear to have been used in this incident, although federal legislation prohibits the possession of fully automatic weapons unless they were registered before 1986.

Notice that libmedia is immediately peddling the idea that this was "machine gun" or "automatic" gunfire.

There is no evidence thus far that the perp used any fully automatic weapons in his attack.

The intent is to blur the lines between various weapon types to use a massacre to push for more restrictive gun laws.

Tooconservative  posted on  2017-10-02   11:51:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Tooconservative (#6)

There is no evidence thus far that the perp used any fully automatic weapons in his attack.

Are you deaf,or is it that you have never shot a machine gun,or been shot at by a machine gun?

sneakypete  posted on  2017-10-02   21:34:07 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: sneakypete (#14) (Edited)

I have shot a machine gun, a vintage Thompson.

There are no reports that an actual machine gun was used.

There are reports that two AR15/AK47 guns were present with bump stocks installed. A bump stock is not a machine gun but it functions very similarly. A legal dodge to the strict licensing for actual machine guns. There just aren't that many real machine guns around. For one thing, they're insanely expensive and so are the parts for them. $10K is cheap for any real machine gun. Buying repair parts is reported to be in the $10K-$50K range, depending on the gun.

It's why in all these gun massacres over the years, you never heard of one with machine guns. Or bank robberies. Actual machine guns in civilian hands are pretty rare and very expensive. Not cheap even for cops.

Tooconservative  posted on  2017-10-02   22:09:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Tooconservative, sneakypete, Stoner (#15)

There are no reports that an actual machine gun was used.

Listen to this video of the shooting and tell us all that's not a machine gun being fired.

Deckard  posted on  2017-10-03   6:01:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Deckard (#18)

I don't care what it sounds like.

Subsequent reporting continues to confirm that these were long rifles equipped with after-market bump stocks. Not full auto machine guns, either legal or illegal.

Tooconservative  posted on  2017-10-03   6:23:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Tooconservative (#19) (Edited)

Subsequent reporting continues to confirm that these were long rifles

So,traditional machinegun style,like the old and much-beloved BAR?

I used to know a Master Sergeant that served a couple of tours in the Delta,where it's pretty open and you can usually see for a long ways. He used to call BAR's "varmit guns",although to be fair the BAR did have both slow fire and a rapid fire options,and it wasn't hard at all to squeeze off single shots.

You could really "reach out and touch someone" with one of those old long,heavy barreled beauties that were chambered for the old 30/06 round.

However,I NEVER met anyone that loved carrying one. SOB's were heavy.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-10-03   8:53:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: sneakypete (#31)

" I NEVER met anyone that loved carrying one. SOB's were heavy. "

A friend of my Dad carried one from Normandy until end of war in Europe. He was a little guy, only about 5' 4", said everyone laughed at him for having to carry it, said he cursed the Sgt that assigned it to him. BUT, he said after the first fire fight, only God could have taken it from him. Except for the weight, he loved it ! He thought it was the best long arm of the war.

Stoner  posted on  2017-10-03   10:36:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Stoner (#37)

A friend of my Dad carried one from Normandy until end of war in Europe. He was a little guy, only about 5' 4", said everyone laughed at him for having to carry it, said he cursed the Sgt that assigned it to him. BUT, he said after the first fire fight, only God could have taken it from him. Except for the weight, he loved it !

Yup,I had friends that had been in the old "brown boot army" that would tell you that NOBODY wanted to be a BAR man in basic or advanced training,and everybody made fun of the BAR man.

UNTIL the bullets started flying. Suddenly he was EVERYBODY's best friend.

A BAR and a M-3 greasegun are the only full-auto weapons I have ever wanted to own. The BAR for historical reasons as well as the reason that nobody to this date has ever made a replacement for it that performed any better or was more reliable,and the M3 Greasegun because I had a suppressed one I sometimes carried on missions in VN. Most guys would carry a 9mm Sten or a Swedish K,but not me. I wanted the good old reliable 45 ACP. Plus the standard 45 ACP round was already loaded at a subsonic level,so with a suppressor the loudest sound they made was when that heavy bolt slammed forward.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-10-03   14:36:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: sneakypete (#38)

Interesting.

If I could own a WWII full auto capable weapon, my choice would be the BAR, or a Thompson. But, that is not going to happen. I might rent one at Knob Creek, that would be the closest I will ever get.

Stoner  posted on  2017-10-03   15:05:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 39.

#40. To: Stoner (#39)

If I could own a WWII full auto capable weapon, my choice would be the BAR, or a Thompson.

I'd love to have a BAR,but am no fan of the Thompson.

I don't even know why I would actually buy a BAR even if I had that much "disposable" money. I am sitting here right now looking at a Model 54 Winchester bolt-action 30/06 that I've owned since the mid-70's,and have never even shot the damn thing. I can't remember exactly when was the last time I actually fired a rifle or a shotgun,and the only time I have fired one of my handguns was to shoot snakes.

Come to think of it,I have a couple of handguns I have owned for 30 years that I have never fired,either. I need to start gathering up that crap and have a sale.

sneakypete  posted on  2017-10-03 17:00:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 39.

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