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Title: Catholic Internet poster -God raised a lizard and a mouse from the dead because I said please. Claims God healed his broken neck and spine. Also says Christ does not treat Christians' diabetes or cancer. He let's them bear that cross, die
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Published: Sep 17, 2017
Author: Vicomte13s words quoted by A K A Stone
Post Date: 2017-09-17 01:29:08 by A K A Stone
Keywords: None
Views: 10551
Comments: 104
Lets contrast the two different takes that this vic guy takes. On the one hand he claims God will answer his prayer to raise a lizard and a mouse from the dead. But god will not heal a sick christian. This is bizarre. This is very telling about Vic.
Here is the first quote taken from libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=38701
(1) When I was a boy, I dove off a dock into a shallow, rocky lake alone. I broke my neck and severed by spinal cord, and was completely paralyzed and drowning at the bottom of the like. I asked God "Please", and he healed me and allowed me to rise and walk away. I told no one until decades later.
(2) A very dead lizard was raised from the dead in my hand by God, when I asked him "Please".
(3) A dead mouse was raised from the dead in my hand by God, when I asked him "Please".
There, those are three true miracles, things that snap the laws of physics in half and that have no explanation. In all three cases a direct personal prayer to God consisting of one word persuaded God to grant the miracle. In all three cases I was alone: these were private theophanies and miracles, not public things. They revealed God to ME; they have no power to reveal him to anybody ELSE, because nobody would ever believe me if these were necessary to prove God to THEM. And in none of the cases did they PROVE God to me - I already knew God was. They were gifts, charisms, nothing more. They weren't FOR any of you, and they aren't for you to argue with me about.
Now here is his contradictory claim found right here
libertysflame.com/cgi-bin...? ArtNum=52686&Disp=14#C14
Christ does not treat Chrsitans' diabetes or cancer. He let's them bear that cross, die, and come to him.
Similarly for starvation. Christ lets hundreds of millions of Christans starve to death. They bear their cross to the end and have their reward in the next life.
Christ never promised health and happiness in this life - in fact, he promised that those things won't be found here.
So you're right - I have absolutely no belief at all that Christ will reach down from heaven and protect Christians from any diseases, or marauding enemies, or starvation, or natural disaster - because he DOESN'T protect us from any of things, and never said he would. Our reward for staying true to him is found on the other side, in the afterlife, not HERE.
If you have diabetes here, praying to Christ will keep you faithful to him to the end and win you the afterlife, but you're still going to lose your foot in THIS life, because Christ isn't going to lift a finger to protect you from the natural law, or from the marauding of other men. You have to help yourself in this life - Christ holds out the promise of happiness in the afterlife if, in the process of helping yourself in this one you don't do great evil, and you remember him and try to do what he said. That's the deal.
That Christ substitutes for human government in this life is impiety. It is ignoring what he really said, and adding nonsense to it that he never said.
Christ will not govern your country. He won't save you from malaria, or hurricanes, or earthquakes, or Nazis. He will have compassion on you, and receive your soul when they kill you, but he won't stop them from killing you, he won't drive off your diseases if you drink contaminated water, and he won't make hurricane Irma spare your life. He might on a one-off basis, but Christians at large get no pass, at all, from natural law.
Christ's deal is not about here.
Wow can anyone think of any possible way that Vic can reconcile these two mutually exclusive beliefs? I sure can't and I think he is nuts if he thinks he raised a lizard from the dead. Double nuts if he raised a mouse also.
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#57. To: Liberator (#40)
When I meant controversy I meant this http://biblehub.com/kjv/jeremiah/25.htm No beef with redleghunter.
God raised a lizard and a mouse from the dead because I said please. Claims God healed his broken neck and spine. - this is all true. Also says Christ does not treat Christians' diabetes or cancer. He let's them bear that cross, die - IN GENERAL that is also true. And he usually lets the kid drown. And the kid he saved from drowning will just die later of something else, just as the lizard and the mouse also both died later of something else. You speak of praying to God as though if you just pray, that God will just grant major miracles that will save you from the consequences of your twisted economics, politics, and personal views - that all you gotta do is stick your prayer into the Jesus slot and turn the knob, and Jesus will grant a miracle to save you from the consequences of not doing what he and YHWH said to do. You're wrong. He won't. Why did he save my young life from paralysis and death at the bottom of a lake? Why did he raise those two animals back up? The almighty has his purposes, and I can only surmise what they are. I put them on the board as part of an argument for belief from miracle - God has performed specific miracles and left behind physical traces, not simply oral testimony like mine - of some of them. Those miracles can be studied through modern forensic science, and their miraculous physics-breaking nature is revealed. THAT is specifically why I spoke of my own private miracles - as part of a line of reasoning to cause atheists, agnostics and doubters to look at the forensics of the open miracles, so that they - like Thomas - can have a tangible, concrete thing to hold onto, and thereby open their minds to the possibility of God. Eventually that path will lead to Scripture, but nobody who thinks Scripture is fairy tale is ever going to read it seriously to do anything with it other than tear it apart. So yes, all of things things I said are true. All of it. That YOU have difficulty putting the concepts together is your problem. And now it's MY problem because you're screaming across threads on this board that I'm a liar, you're telling me in private messages that I am a liar over a dinner that I did, in fact reserve. You're quoting Scripture rather randomly, or even in some cases actually confirming the very thing I said (about ancient Israel being the EXCEPTION to the general law against killing, for instance), but you're so blind in your rage that you don't see it. And you've got a little posse here following you around and seconding you. I am the (only) face of Catholicism here, and I am telling the truth. You and your posse are the "Christians" here, and you are falsely accusing me of lying, and slandering me from thread to thread, naming threads after me. Will you change? Nah. Knowing you, you will copy what I said at the end of the last post - that I was walking away - and post THAT and then this post and say "LIAR! You said you were not posting anymore, and here you are! LIAR LIAR LIAR!" I've been writing on this site for years now, ever since LibertyPost went offline. There are people on this site with whom I have been communicating for a decade. I don't think I understood before now just how different Christians and Catholics are. I don't think I understood the depths of the fury on your side. I see it now, I get it. And I don't think there is anything more to say. I'm disgusted, I'm insulted at being repetitively called a liar, and I see no value in going toe-to-toe in public over lies that you have fabricated. These threads are a monument to the difference between my God and yours. I'm sticking with mine, because as far as I can tell, yours does not exist at all, any more than the "facts" about me that you keep making up. I have spoken of actual miracles, real things, and tried to incorporate them into a discussion aimed at helping those who don't see God at all, to have a thread they can follow to open their minds to the possibility. What have you done? Denied. Slandered. Lied. Why should I stay to argue this, because YOU say that if I leave you have won. What have you won? You've managed to drive me off because I don't feel like putting up with slander and bullshit. If that's a "win" for you, I'll let you have it. You have won nothing. You've taken your small site and made it smaller. You flushed out the Catholic and drove him away. So now you can sit and sing Kumbaya together in the darkness. Enjoy it, you've earned it.
You're aren't the only Catholic here. Even if you were, that doesn't make you any more representative of Catholics than some LF evangelical can be said to represent all evangelicals. These threads are religious chitchat. They can never be more than that. Why people think that somehow the internet is a mission field is beyond me. It is not and never has been. Chitchatting religious doctrine or experiences is still just chitchat.
I've done more than chit-chat with people I have met on the boards. I've assisted some, to the extent that I could, and gotten very helpful advice from others. Everything we say and do, everywhere, matters. "Mission field" is Protestant-speak. I'm not a missionary, I'm not a clergyman - never planned to be. It's nice of you to speak for the Catholics, but why don't you stick with speaking for the Christians? The Catholics here, if there are any, are all capable of speaking for themselves. I am sure that such Catholics here will tell you univocally that the insults of the rosary are manifestations of your ignorance, and that regardless of what they think of the current Pope, that the papacy itself was constituted by God with Peter as the first designee. I don't think there are other Catholics here, but if there are, none of them will disagree with anything I've just said. If they are more reticent than I am about speaking, it is probably only because they see what happens to me and they don't want to endure that. If any other Catholics are reading this right now, if you speak up to second what I said you will demonstrate the uniformity of our faith in those basic regards - that we CAN speak for Catholicism on many things, because there is a substantive content to our religion, it is not all simply a matter of opinion. On the other hand, if there are Catholics reading this who profoundly disagree with me on these things and others, and who think that I have misrepresented Catholicism, you should also speak up to second Too Conservative's argument that what I say is not representative of you. In all of my experience, we Catholics are pretty uniform around the world in our basic outlook on things like God, family and the beliefs of the Church. We're not Protestants who each believes what he wants to believe. We're Catholics precisely BECAUSE we all adhere to a pretty long list of common beliefs. This is all the more true because the Catholic Church kinda sucks, really, with all of the scandals and bad history and abuse and problems. We're still here because we believe it is true at the heart, that this is God's Church, peopled in every age by very flawed humans who do flawed human things. We know that, and we know we can leave at any time and believe what we want. We stay - often with a lot of anger at the wrongdoing - because we ultimately believe in fundamental truths of the religion. Is there a single Catholic on this site who disagrees with anything I have just said? I seriously doubt it. So come on, Catholics - step out of the shadows now. I'm being attacked, as a Catholic, on two fronts - because I'm a Catholic and, these people say, our rosary is a blasphemy and our papacy is an abomination - and then also because I say that I'm a Catholic and am accused of not saying things representative of the Church. Tell them what you think.
Not really. You're just chitchatting but like to imagine that you're suffering more than all the martyrs of history. Which you aren't. It's still just anonymous chitchat. You seem to think you can or will at some point change people's minds on some policy or doctrine. But it just won't happen on the internet. Ever. The Federalist: Why You Should Stop Trying To Change People’s Minds, 9/12/17
old world bump on The head vic vs new world age over The sTuffed Top Toopcconservative You're righT noThing is going To change love ps owo = nwo same game - axis differenT magneTs - marbles If you ... don't use exclamation points --- you should't be typeing ! Commas - semicolons - question marks are for girlie boys !
Bullshit, I'm a half-assed Catholic too! And there are other Catholics keeping a low profile. It's still just anonymous chitchat. Typical nasty projection. Are all Christians like you? It does not always stay anonymous. Sometimes human connections are made, and sometimes that is to the benefit of each. Also, some people do engage their minds. I agree with you that political change cannot be made on a board such as this, but religion is very personal, and God is very real. People ache for him, they need him and they want him. But there is so much encrustation around the ladder out of the depths that sometimes people who want to climb it can't find the first rung. And sometimes, given them a helping hand by putting their hand on the first rung and showing it them, and perhaps cracking some of the crustaceans off it so they can feel it, does give them a handhold, from which, then, their own desire causes them to reach up for the next rung. And then they're off. That CAN happen on a site like this. And rarely, it does. A turn of phrase, a different way of looking at old problems - this is possible with individuals through a board such as this.
You're a Catholic, and you think that the rosary and the papacy are in defiance of God?
you think that the rosary and the papacy are in defiance of God? Baptized, Confirmed, and survived the torture of Catholic Parochial Schools! I've done a few rosaries. I never said that, quit making stuff up. Lighten up, Torquemada. When has it actually happened on this website? All of the regular and irregular posters have known each other for many years, back at TOS and LP. I've rarely seen anyone change their minds about anything, least of all religion or politics.
You can't find it in the Bible yet you throw away Paul who is in the Bible. You haven't used one verse of scripture to make a single point. Because you cannot. You have to go outside the Holy Bible and say the Catholic church had some special secret revelation. Then you are vague about that. Then you say adios. Then you come back asking for fellow Catholics to join you. Then you still cannot answer to this thread or the rosary thread or any other thread or text that refutes the Catholic church as a bible believing church. Yes you believe parts of it but not all of it. Then you botch and cry when someone points out that the Catholic church is acting contrary to the words god gave us in the Bible. I'm not saying that there aren't Catholics who are in fact saved.
I'm more concerned with what people do to each outher in this life than what fools and con men tell me I'm going to get in the next life. People think life on this tiny planet have a unique relationship with god. There are billions of stars out there with millions of planets whirling around them. What makes you believe god is primarily concerned with matters on earth? There is no evidence for concern at all.
God, if he exists, would find human beings a juvenile annoyance tucked far off in the distant corner of the universe.
Is there a single Catholic on this site who disagrees with anything I have just said? I agree with you. "I'm being attacked, as a Catholic, on two fronts " Why do you care about what any of these malcontents have to say? Splitters! "we are tartets from evil doers!!!" [ and ] U looked up birfer on the dcitionary. It isn't a movie. "Listen piece of shit. Call me anti American again and your're banned. I don't like you." - aka stoned -
Vic wasn't up to it. Perhaps you can explain why God will raise a lizard and a mouse from the dead for vic. But vic said god will not help a sick person with cancer. It is a bizarre and silly statement. Come on over to the Rosary thread if you care to defend that practice that Jesus forbade. Maybe you are more up to it than Vic was. He had no answers.
I sincerely hope that you find God. I really do.
Is that just the current Roman lingo for "Stop trying to divide the body of Christ!"? We've heard it before. So has everyone else.
Perhaps not a mission field but this chit chat tends to find opinions not normally brought up in person.
Also, some people do engage their minds. This is true. The apostles used Roman empire roads to bring the Gospel. The new "roads" is the interweb. Just think of the charity work that is funded and reported on the net.
How one conducts oneself in this life is the witness of having the next life.
That while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. The above can be found in over 25,000 ancient manuscripts in Koine Greek, Syriac, Latin and other languages. And of course add to the above Christ left His ekklesia, His called out ones (Church) to be a witness for Him. You have the objective evidence of the New Testament and the subjective proof of Christ's followers. However, Robert you do make some valid points. Christianity does not lay its truth in the material world. God has provided examples of His Power in miracles which validate the words spoken. There's a miracle which happens daily on earth. God removes hearts of stone with loving hearts of flesh (Ezekiel 36) and converts the souls of countless many. It is His act to do so. The question is do we have the proper "soil" to accept the blessings of the Sower.
That may be true but I've found it quite rare that anyone changes their opinions on religion substantially as a result of online persuasion or debate. I won't say it doesn't happen but it is rare.
I've seen new or immature Christians come to Christian type forums to grow. Through all the sewage we see online, there have been diamonds among the muck.
Proving that there are fools speaking various languages in various cultures that can be influenced by drivel.
Is that just the current Roman lingo for "Stop trying to divide the body of Christ!"? We've heard it before. So has everyone else. Scene #8, Life of Brian. "we are tartets from evil doers!!!" [ and ] U looked up birfer on the dcitionary. It isn't a movie. "Listen piece of shit. Call me anti American again and your're banned. I don't like you." - aka stoned -
I made a mistake. I thought you would actually put some intellectual power into examining theology.
Mythology?
It was no mistake. You just weren't prepared do deal with it when it came.
Absolutely. Basically ALL of us have been exposed to countless opinion, theory, and facts that otherwise would have NEVER been contemplated - never mind heard in the first place.
But...aren't they all one and the same "fools and con men"?? What makes you or I any different? What makes one group of "con men" more legit or honest then the others? EVERY group is "selling" their respective way on how to best live (notice I didn't say how best to live "honorably," "ethically," or "morally.")
One issue at a time... Let's accept your theory for a moment: "There are BILLIONS of stars out there with millions of planets whirling around them." Who or what manufactured them? Something obviously set all these planetary spheres on their respective orderly paths or revolutions around their respective suns/stars. None of these planets or stars are moving willy-nilly and random like ping-pong balls to our knowledge -- same of our own solar system. What we see is ORDER, not chaos. That indicates some kind of material law is in effect. Q: Doesn't ALL laws or order necessarily require a force to create such "law and order"?
HA! (Many WILL indeed be "tucked away in a distant corner" -- but of exactly what manner of isolation, one needs to contemplate a Way -- THE Way to avoid it.)
Yup. The force is called gravity.
For the answers and mountains of "evidence" you'd have to first open your heart, then begin reading Genesis ("And God said, Let us make man in our image...Genesis 1:26). Then work your way through the rest of "The Owners Instruction Manual.") Additional Bible Study or Commentary will be helpful. In case you reject this notion because "Man Wrote It," please be reminded that the same Creator who set those millions and billions and gazillions of planets and stars in an orderly fashion -- as well as the trillions of cells that work autonomously to keep us alive -- is the creation of the same God who can easily inspire and impart His EXACT will into the heart and mind and hand of man. (No "FEE-FI-FO-FUM" required.) Can we agree that ALL of our orderly universe, our life, our cellular systems are indeed a miracle? That it transcends the notion of coincidental total and complete systematic order out of chaos? ( But no...not everything will make sense in this life as you already note. Once our planet and original occupants were once perfect like all of Creation, but soon became a fallen place that requires redemption...[see Genesis again.]) One of the gifts of our Creator, aka God, is that He has left our spiritual destiny to our own personal free will. Whether we shall seek and find Him and our mission is entirely up to us. There is no better time to seek and find than...yesterday. Though our Creator can easily impose His will upon you, upon me, there is no coercion. Just a simple test of "discovery" and humility. Ergo, we are all responsible for our own soul....which shall transition from the physical, deteriorating BioShell into the Spirit -- and brand new spiritual "body." As it is written.
Gravity is still a "law" of the material world of mass that requires a "law-maker," a manufacturer.
No. Elements such as gravity,inertia and isotopic processes are are eternal and inherent in the real physical world. It is up to us to accept and use them.
Who wrote it? Many people write different things. This invites many questions that can not ansered here in less than a volume. I hace other interests such as clinical psychology and nuclear physics. I haven't time to waste the rest of my life arguing with an impulsive juvenile addicted to fantasy and believing he can wear me down with inanity.
Looks to me like rlk and sneakypete are handing you your ass. : ) They're hardnosed opponents.
Lemme guess: Alfalfa? I'm not letting other people's addiction to emotional reactions childish fantasy and feel-good make beleive over-rule my logical thought processes. Odd that you characterize as "Fantasy" or "Fairy Tales" beliefs in a Creator (a belief the vast majority of people in history inherently and instinctively believe in); Faith in an "Owners Manual" underwritten by man-through-God Himself, actual ancient prophecies from SEVERAL authors having FACTUALLY come true; and belief that after the material existence the soul sheds its BioShell for a metaphysical body... Yet SOMEHOW, "Bushido" and its "Codes" is *your* "Gospel." Soehow IT is not "fantasy," wishful thinking, or a Fairy Tale. To whom do you cite as your Authority for Bushido's validity and Truth? Part of your problem is a superiority-complex which convicts you into believing any concession of thought or opinion is regarded as a character or intellectual sign of weakness. "Logic" doesn't even come into play here; Only your own vanity and obstinate child-like position -- regardless of proof or possibility. It is weak to lock-into a default "I'm-Always-Right, You-Are-Always-Wrong mode -- especially without a sufficient or thorough examination. You can't possibly disprove the existence of a Creator of all things, aka God. But it CAN be proven ALL things indeed have a Creator. That's called "Math."
Comments (98 - 104) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestThe "deal" remains for ALL who accept it. Isn't that your understanding of what the Gospel is all about?
#58. To: A K A Stone (#54)
#59. To: Vicomte13 (#58)
I am the (only) face of Catholicism here
These threads are a monument to the difference between my God and yours.
#60. To: Tooconservative (#59)
Why people think that somehow the internet is a mission field is beyond me. It is not and never has been. Chitchatting religious doctrine or experiences is still just chitchat.
#61. To: Vicomte13 (#60)
I'm being attacked, as a Catholic, on two fronts
#62. To: Tooconservative (#61)
boris
#63. To: Vicomte13, lifelong Catholics (#58)
(Edited)
I am the (only) face of Catholicism here, and I am telling the truth.
/s
#64. To: Tooconservative (#61)
Not really. You're just chitchatting but like to imagine that you're suffering more than all the martyrs of history. Which you aren't.
#65. To: hondo68 (#63)
#66. To: Vicomte13 (#65)
You're a Catholic
/s
#67. To: Vicomte13 (#64)
Typical nasty projection. Are all Christians like you?
That CAN happen on a site like this. And rarely, it does.
#68. To: Vicomte13 (#65)
#69. To: Liberator (#36)
You (like others here) rage against an entity you believe doesn't exist, yet you believe He cheats us out of Eternal Life.
#70. To: All (#69)
#71. To: Vicomte13 (#60)
In all of my experience, we Catholics are pretty uniform around the world in our basic outlook on things like God, family and the beliefs of the Church. We're not Protestants who each believes what he wants to believe. We're Catholics precisely BECAUSE we all adhere to a pretty long list of common beliefs. This is all the more true because the Catholic Church kinda sucks, really, with all of the scandals and bad history and abuse and problems. We're still here because we believe it is true at the heart, that this is God's Church, peopled in every age by very flawed humans who do flawed human things. We know that, and we know we can leave at any time and believe what we want. We stay - often with a lot of anger at the wrongdoing - because we ultimately believe in fundamental truths of the religion.
#72. To: Jameson (#71)
#73. To: rlk (#69)
There is no evidence for concern at all.
#74. To: Jameson (#71)
Splitters!
#75. To: Tooconservative (#59)
Why people think that somehow the internet is a mission field is beyond me. It is not and never has been. Chitchatting religious doctrine or experiences is still just chitchat.
#76. To: Vicomte13 (#64)
It does not always stay anonymous. Sometimes human connections are made, and sometimes that is to the benefit of each.
#77. To: rlk (#69)
I'm more concerned with what people do to each outher in this life than what fools and con men tell me I'm going to get in the next life.
#78. To: rlk (#69)
What makes you believe god is primarily concerned with matters on earth? There is no evidence for concern at all.
#79. To: redleghunter (#75)
Perhaps not a mission field but this chit chat tends to find opinions not normally brought up in person.
#80. To: Tooconservative (#79)
That may be true but I've found it quite rare that anyone changes their opinions on religion substantially as a result of online persuasion or debate. I won't say it doesn't happen but it is rare.
#81. To: redleghunter (#78)
The above can be found in over 25,000 ancient manuscripts in Koine Greek, Syriac, Latin and other languages.
#82. To: Tooconservative (#74)
Splitters!
#83. To: rlk (#81)
#84. To: redleghunter, rlk (#83)
... put some intellectual power into examining theology.
#85. To: redleghunter (#83)
I made a mistake. I thought you would actually put some intellectual power into examining theology.
#86. To: redleghunter (#75)
...This chit chat tends to find opinions not normally brought up in person.
#87. To: rlk (#69)
I'm more concerned with what people do to each outher in this life than what fools and con men tell me I'm going to get in the next life.
#88. To: rlk (#69)
People think life on this tiny planet have a unique relationship with god. There are billions of stars out there with millions of planets whirling around them. What makes you believe god is primarily concerned with matters on earth? There is no evidence for concern at all.
#89. To: rlk (#70)
God, if he exists, would find human beings a juvenile annoyance tucked far off in the distant corner of the universe.
#90. To: Liberator (#88)
Doesn't ALL laws or order necessarily require a force to create such "law and order"?
#91. To: rlk (#69)
People think life on this tiny planet have a unique relationship with god....There is no evidence for concern at all.
#92. To: rlk (#90)
Yup. The force is called gravity.
#93. To: Liberator (#91)
For the answers and mountains of "evidence" you'd have to first open your heart...
An open heart is the shortest path to a childish empty head.
I'm not letting other people's addiction to emotional reactions childish fantasy and feel-good make beleive over-rule my logical thought processes.
#94. To: Liberator (#92)
Gravity is still a "law" of the material world of mass that requires a "law-maker," a manufacturer.
#95. To: Liberator (#91)
Though our Creator can easily impose His will upon you, upon me, there is no coercion. Just a simple test of "discovery" and humility. Ergo, we are all responsible for our own soul....which shall transition from the physical, deteriorating BioShell into the Spirit -- and brand new spiritual "body." As it is written.
#96. To: Liberator, rlk, sneakypete (#92)
#97. To: rlk (#93)
"An open heart is the shortest path to a childish empty head."
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