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New Discovery! 2023 Hottest in over 120 Million Years 2024 and beyond in prophecy Questions This Speech Just Broke the Internet Status: Not Logged In; Sign In Mexican Invasion See other Mexican Invasion Articles Title: Europe Is Killing Itself Source: YouTube URL Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydPZRoLzu-E Published: Sep 7, 2017 Author: Pat Condell Post Date: 2017-09-08 08:06:55 by Tooconservative Keywords: None Views: 16286 Comments: 63 Suicide by virtue signalling. Everyone is free to download this video and post it to their own account if they wish, as long as it is not edited in any way (including the title) and not monetized. Merkel has no regrets on open door policy http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wor... Merkel regrets open door policy. “I wish I could turn back time.” http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/7... Germany: MIgrant sex crimes double in one year. https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/10... 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To: Tooconservative (#0) What do progressives do when a program they devise doesn't work at all. Double down and claim its racist who are the problem!! Its work so far so way stop it? Justified  posted on  2017-09-08   9:20:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #2. To: Justified (#1) What do progressives do when a program they devise doesn't work at all. Double down and claim its racist who are the problem!! Its work so far so way stop it? They won't stop it. Everybody else has to team up to stop them. So, why don't we team up? The answer is that, besides progressives, "everybody else" is divided into groups that, among them, are groups every bit as offensive as the progressives, or moreso. On the right, for example, libertarian free-marketeers detest pro-lifers as much even more than they do progressives. Vicomte13  posted on  2017-09-08   9:36:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #3. To: Vicomte13 (#2) On the right, for example, libertarian free-marketeers detest pro-lifers as much even more than they do progressives. I wouldn't agree to that. The honchos of the Libertarian Party have always been pro-choicers. They had a big setback when Ron Paul was their 1988 pro-life nominee, a legacy that continues to cause them problems. Among the small-L libertarians, my experience indicates that a strong majority of them are pro-lifers. Don't assume there is any majority of pro-lifers among the libertarians overall, even if LP leadership remains pro-abortion (but fairly quiet about it). Tooconservative  posted on  2017-09-08   9:46:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #4. To: Tooconservative (#3) Maybe it wasn't a great example. Look at this site. Start lining up the issues and putting people in various boxes, issue by issue. Now think how impossible it would be for us to all cooperate with each other against a common enemy, because we talk of each other as the enemy, even though we probably agree on 75% of everything. What I meant was that we need only look to ourselves to see why a visible enemy like the Democrats advances against us. Many of us simply hate each other. How can anything be built on that? Can't be. Vicomte13  posted on  2017-09-08   10:06:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #5. To: Vicomte13 (#4) Now think how impossible it would be for us to all cooperate with each other against a common enemy, because we talk of each other as the enemy, even though we probably agree on 75% of everything. One might almost suspect there are agentes provocateurs but I think that conservatives tend to be more opinionated and sunk into their various FNC and talk radio bubbles. And you have a good smattering of the Jonesy people who follow Alex Jones and even Michael Savage. And no elected pols who really speak well to all those groups, including Trump (despite trying to, even appearing as a guest on Jones' show). OTOH, we don't have a complicit mass media or control of academia or social networks. So we are being swamped by the big battalions of the Left in the war for public opinion. Tooconservative  posted on  2017-09-08   10:13:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #6. To: Tooconservative (#5) It's not even that. Look, here's the way it is: the American Right cannot hold permanent institutional power the way the American Left has until it reconciles itself to Catholics. We are not going to stand in ranks with people with whom we agree politically on important things when you call us Satanists and evil and other jejeune, ignorant crap when we talk to you in private. You don't find us going on crusade against your religions. We did once. In Europe. 500 years ago. At the same time that your brutal and satanic ancestors were burning people at the stake as witches. There was evil on all sides. That was then. This is now. You are not them, and we are not them. We are us now, Americans. We believe our religion is true, every bit as much as you do. And we are the pivot population - the ones that gave FDR his New Deal, and America its social welfare structure. We need to have a talk about social welfare, because that's where our religious differences bite down the hardest politically. We tend to love the military, the idea of the rule of law, support law enforcement in general, and support individual rights. We're as pro-life as you are. But we're never going to break bread with people who are still in the third grade pitching taunts about our being evil. We're not evil, but you are when you talk like that (not YOU - "ye"). You have to discipline yourself to stop that. That is the PRICE of having the Catholics as the pivot back towards you. You cannot get the Jews - though you profess your love for them - not ever. But you CAN have us for the same reason that FDR did: we believe in social welfare and a functional state. But we are not blacks. We will not sit at the table and pretend we're cool with racists who hate us. You spew your hatred, we hear it, and we walk away. Our common interests are not important enough, because we are actually Catholics - we know that life is short, we die and go someplace better, so we're not going to compromise on anything important, ever. We'll just wait to the afterlife. We are not persuadable, and we are not changeable. But we WILL work with allies towards a common goal. Catholic France gave America its birth in the first place, did we not? (Yes we did.) So, understand that for US, social welfare is not political, it is theological. We cannot abandon it because some asshole named Rand or Hayek or Friedman decided that it is unnecessary. Those people are midgets compared to Jesus of Nazareth, who commands it. We are operating on commandments of God, and we're never going to compromise. You are ALREADY COMPROMISED. You COLLECT Medicare and Social Security, and Medicaid and Disability and Unemployment when you need it. So all of this mewling and puking against the social welfare state, which is your hallmark, is hypocritical and stupid. And you make yourselves disgusting to us by spewing hate at us. Stop spewing the hate. Admit that you NEED the social welfare (because you do), and then sit at the table with us to discuss and work out REASONABLE finances, REASONABLE levels of health care and military spending. Agree on the economic commandments, and all of a sudden you have a majority for not expanding gay marriage and for ratcheting back abortion, for maintaining a robust military and the rule of law. All of a sudden you have what you want. But you'd rather piss all of that away so that you can maintain a stupid hatred of Catholicism that is based on nothing that has happened within the past three hundred years. It is so very dumb. We're not moving. You could. If you do, then you have what you want. If you don't, we sit unmovable and grow through immigration and birth rates, the social welfare state is maintained, and the military, but the society goes to worms. You want to win? Then stop being stupid and stop hating your natural allies. You USED TO hate the Jews with the same vehemence, but you STOPPED. Which means that you CAN decide to stop hating a religious group you don't agree with, if you WANT to. You don't want to. Apparently you like losing. See, we Catholics mostly have what we want. We just want to stop the moral decay. You guys have nothing you want. Everything is falling to ruin. You are too few in numbers, and you're losing all the battles. You're like the South in 1863: you need more men. We are like France, sitting there over the horizon - ABLE to intervene (as we did in 1778) and ABLE to turn the tide. But we're not going to do that unless you reach out your hand. So humble yourselves and turn off the anti-Catholic hatred, and reach out your hand. We will take it. It isn't funny to us. We don't see it as a game. Jack Chick makes me laugh, but that's the way you people ACTUALLY TALK TO ME on this board, because I am a Catholic. Are you REALLY all that ignorant? Honest to God, you seem to be. Well, if you don't want to go the route of the Confederacy, lose the war, and then eventually even have your monuments taken down so that you died in vain for an evil cause, went to hell, and are forgotten here also...memory blotted out. You're well on your way. You don't have to lose. But like George Washington and the founders knew; YOU CANNOT WIN WITHOUT CATHOLIC FRANCE. And you can't. The Confederates didn't have Catholic France or Anglican Britain, because their populations would not let them commit to fighting for slavery. Catholic America would ally with you, if you were not such nasty fucks to us ALL THE TIME. So decide to save yourselves and grow up and knock that shit off for good. It doesn't strengthen YOUR side, and it drives away the only possible allies that could give you the win. Stop insulting us, and understand that we are never going to let you end social welfare, not ever. Accept those two things as GIVENS, and then look at what you can build on a stable political alliance. There is hope, in that path. There is none on your swirling path into darkness. Pickett - don't make the charge. Vicomte13  posted on  2017-09-08   12:41:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #7. To: Vicomte13 (#6) You don't have to lose. But like George Washington and the founders knew; YOU CANNOT WIN WITHOUT CATHOLIC FRANCE. And you can't. The Confederates didn't have Catholic France or Anglican Britain, because their populations would not let them commit to fighting for slavery. Perhaps that you should consider that Catholics can't win on pro-life and pro-family issues either without the Prot voters. It cuts both ways. Catholic and Prot camps make common cause on abortion and family policy pretty broadly and without much fanfare. I always considered this to be understood. And I recall years back you predicting that the great wave of Hispanic immigration would dramatically shift America toward Catholicism because the immigrants were strongly pro-life Catholic. But we don't see that. Instead we see Latin America and South America pivoting to emulate our policies on abortion and same-sex marriage. I think you're mistaken about the fundamental voting habits of a majority of Catholic voters in northeastern Blue states and CA in particular. Where are these pro-life pro-Catholic Dems getting elected to the House, let alone the Senate? And yet these senators from the northeast Blue states do represent a large voting bloc in each of these states. So I don't see where either immigrant Catholics or the states with the highest concentrations of Catholic voters are making any real headway in electing authentic Catholics to office. Instead, you get the Pelosis and other very liberal unCatholic Catholics elected overwhelmingly. But no pro-life Catholics or any that speak out much on same-sex marriage are in office. You might argue that Bob Casey campaigns to the ghost of his father's brand of pro-life politics as a Dem. But even that is a very faint gesture and surely an outlier among prominent Dem politicians. Tooconservative  posted on  2017-09-08   13:01:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #8. To: Tooconservative (#7) Yeah, well, it looks like American culture is stronger than Christianity across the board. In the past ten years, religion has faded in general - Catholic, Protestant - you name it. The "don't believe" category has grown dramatically, while the "nominal believer" (no church) category has grown greatly. So looks as though I was wrong about Hispanics. Looks as though Christianity is simply going to die out in America as it has in Europe, and become a little asterisk at the bottom of the page. People will be "Christian" like the French are Catholic. Kids still usually get baptized. There's a marriage at some point, maybe. And then a funeral. Essentially the church becomes a baptism hall, a marriage hall and a funeral parlor. The seculars look set to win. Most of them are not all that hard to live with. So I guess that's it then. Christianity never reconciled. It just shriveled. We could discuss why, but why bother? Vicomte13  posted on  2017-09-08   14:20:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #10. To: Vicomte13, Tooconservative (#8) In the past ten years, religion has faded in general - Catholic, Protestant - you name it. I believe LDS (Mormon) has grown very slowly, but grown. I reckon Islam is a big exception. Evangelical denominations have grown. Mainstream Catholic and Protestant religion isn't doing so good. nolu chan  posted on  2017-09-09   4:12:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #11. To: nolu chan (#10) (Edited) Nope. Evangelical Christianity is also in decline among whites. There has been a small rise in it among Hispanics, but a much larger rise in religiously unaffiliated among Blacks, Whites AND Latinos. Organized religion itself is dying out in the US. That doesn't mean that belief in God is going away. But people in increasing numbers no longer desire to express that belief in God through organized churches. That means that the political clout of the organized churches is declining steadily and substantially. It's frankly not hard to see why. Organized Christianity addresses side issues and esoteric things, but does not address, front and center, the primary issues that drive human beings: and those are ECONOMIC. There has long been an argument from the conservative right in America that the government should get out of the business of social welfare, that the government has no business providing social security, medical care, poverty relief - that this is the role of private charity and the churches. The problem, of course, is that the churches never filled that role well, and are not trying to. Instead, the churches focused on maintaining political control through the justification of segregation and racism in the South, alcohol prohibition nationwide, and every aspect of sexuality, from contraception through abortion and homosexuality nationwide. One could - and Christian fanatics would - argue that these are fundamental Christian issues. But America is a democracy and people vote with their feet. Fact is, people need economic security more than they need racial division, alcohol prohibition, and lectures about sex. And so the government has grown, and the role of government in providing economic security has grown, while the churches wilt and become less and less capable of really providing charitable support for the whole population even if they wanted to (which they don't). Conservatives never want to face up to the reality that the fundamental purpose of religion and government, from the perspective of individual people, is providing them with economic security. The provision of economic security is massive, permanent, and requires shifting wealth from those who have a lot and want more, to those who don't, on a continuous and rather heavy basis. Charity is supposed to do that, but the churches have never done it on the scale necessary, and focus on aspects of social control that have been at best intrusive into life where people do not want intrusion, generally unhelpful (Prohibition), or outright evil (Southern Christian arguments for racial segregation and slavery). This has served to discredit Christianity over the historical span. (Note well how Protestants remember the details of Catholic crimes committed five hundred years ago in the time of Luther - nobody forgets the sins of organized religion.) There is nothing on the cards at all that indicates that organized Christianity will get smarter or step up to its charitable role. Christians have never wanted to do that, and still don't. So, essentially, organized Christianity is expensive, intrusive and useless, and more and more people see that and walk away from it now that there are other entertainment options. Which means, in turn that even though the Churches COULD HAVE BEEN the social safety net, had they actually fulfilled their true purpose, they are no longer capable of replacing the government in that role even now, and in the future they will be weaker, smaller, and increasingly irrelevant, like they are in Europe. Which means that the government will remain the foundation and source of the social safety net, and that it will continue in that role until the end of the world, as it must. Which means that the conservative right is doomed to endless political defeat and marginalization unless it changes its ideology regarding the social safety net. It is not possible to win control of any democratic country by campaigning on dismantling the social safety net, so when conservatives still talk about doing that, they are cranks on the fringe. One of the reasons that Republicans campaign on a right wing program to get their base, but always lie and never do it is because if they really did some of the things they campaign on, they would effectively be doing what the Republicans did to themselves with Prohibition: made themselves odious. One of the key planks of the Democratic platform in 1932 that got FDR elected was an end to Prohibition. He won, and within a year the Constituton was amended to end it. You can see that relentless will to power on the right in various posters here on this board. It's really offensive. People won't vote for that. You can ALSO see the will to power on the Left. People would not vote for that either, if that was all that was on offer. But the Left also provides the Social Safety net, which is why over time, since 1932, they always win. They may lose an election here or there, but none of their major advances in providing the social safety net are ever undone. Obamacare is the current example. The American people need universal health care, paid for by the government. The rest of the civilized world has it, and we need it. The right pretends we don't. but when they actually get power, they recognize that the cost of actually pulling the plug on it will be horrendous suffering which will ensure they are wiped out in the next election. So the right when it actually has power - supports the social safety net. It verbally abuses it to keep the wingnuts in their party happy, but it actually supports it. Ronald Reagan is the guy who not only shored up Social Security, but signed the law that gave access to hospital emergency rooms all across America, regardless of ability to pay. A lot of the rank and file on the right really believe in dismantling the social welfare state and rolling back laws on sexual liberty, hard prohibition on pot. They even manage to maintain some dry counties down South. But even when "their" party wins, the social welfare state is never rolled back, because it cannot be. It cannot be for exactly the same reason that the country is not going to abandon electricity and go back to living like the Amish. Vicomte13  posted on  2017-09-09   7:46:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #12. To: All (#11) My point in writing the above is to point directly at the aspect of right wing thinking that has to change if the right is going to turn the wheel and enjoy a century of dominance just as the Left has since FDR. There is much to detest on the Left, starting with the fact that they are racists, and continuing along with the fact they they are thugs, criminals, that they rig elections, and that they have their own fanatic issues, which mostly involve pillorying people over minoritarian issues. The Clinton family is an outright criminal enterprise that has been kept above the law by Democrat protection. The right would dearly love to replace the Left as the dominant establishment power, but they can't. They can't because they are children and don't understand either economics or the teachings of God in the Old Testament, the New Testament and practical reality. Life is economic, and wealth redistribution, of a limited, controlled, scheduled nature to prevent true suffering at the bottom of society, is necessary. God said it over and over, but the fact that Christians don't actually do that is why Christianity wilts while government remains strong. Government actually provides what God told people to provide. Religion obsesses about sex. The social safety network is a permanent feature of government, like sewers. It's necessary. The Right has to grow up and embrace that as a duty from God (which it is) and do it more efficienctly. Then they will win. Until they do, the right will look like it does, and its thought leaders will be what we have. And it will be the minoritarian view and keep losing, because it's wrong. Vicomte13  posted on  2017-09-09   8:01:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #14. To: Vicomte13 (#12) Oh and your so called economics of god thread didn't advance your point 1 millimeter. You abandoned it because that is what you do. Make up things and say you are going to prove something. Then you don't because you can't. A K A Stone  posted on  2017-09-09   8:12:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #16. To: A K A Stone (#14) Oh and your so called economics of god thread didn't advance your point 1 millimeter. You abandoned it because that is what you do. Make up things and say you are going to prove something. Then you don't because you can't. Ok. Well, then let's go back and focus on that thread. I do start things and don't finish them sometimes. Since you've called attention to it, I'll get right back on it now. Vicomte13  posted on  2017-09-09   9:02:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #18. To: Vicomte13, A K A Stone (#16) Since you've called attention to it, I'll get right back on it now. This is too much! I can't contain the belly laffter. buckeroo  posted on  2017-09-09   9:08:22 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   Replies to Comment # 18. #19. To: buckeroo (#18) Well, you know, original writing takes a lot of work. That thread that AKA Stone is addressing had several long essays on it that were quite detailed and took me hours to do. I don't cut and paste anything. When I am doing an analysis and writing on something, that's me doing the analysis and writing on it. That takes a lot of time. Writing takes time. Proofing it, considering the places where I might be misunderstood. That's real work, hours and hours and hours of it. And it's work done without pay at night for VERY hostile people who don't hesitate to express their hate, often. Which causes me to pause when I get tired - as anybody who writes things like that inevitably does - and ask myself "Just why exactly am I doing this, anyway? To appease the unappeasables?" It's very easy, and very sane, to just drop it and walk away. I don't see anybody ELSE here actually writing long original works of research and analysis. Nolu Chan is the exception - he clearly does focused legal research and puts together interesting results. You can use his work, even if you don't agree with it, because he gives the citations, and he argues from the texts he uses. You can't just brush away his legal arguments with an "I do not agree" handwave, because he has actually cited LAW. If you don't agree, then you have to look at what he has put together critically, to see if he has cited something wrong. He doesn't. So then it comes down to parsing words and his interpretation of words. Even where I don't agree with him, you'll never see me going after Nolu Chan with aggressive sneering disregard. I can see the work he has put into it, and I can see that what he has said has backing and needs to be taken seriously. He has the power to persuade because of the quality of his research and the detail of his efforts. When speaking of the Bible, you essentially have to be perfect. Your quotes have to be perfect, and your inferences have to hang upon the language you quoted. Theologies have been built on individual words and sentences over the course of almost four thousand years. Nobody is going to bum's rush anybody knowledgeable on the Bible. I know that. So I have to be extra careful. That's why I've made choices such as using the current version of the KJV - not because I agree with KJV-Onlyists, or that I think it is the best translation - I don't, and it isn't - but because I know that there is a whole swath of Protestant Christianity, including some of the very people I am trying to communicate with on this board - who will not accept anything BUT the KJV. I know that, and I know that the thread of the story is present throughout the KJV text, so I don't mind using it for the purpose for which I was writing. I have to keep all of that in mind when I write, and write carefully. Every word has to be chosen. The story I mean to tell extends throughout the entire 2000 pages of the Bible. It's there, but the people to whom I am speaking have not themselves see it, so I have to show it to them, so that they see it, but I have to do it in a way that is respectful and that lets the text itself say it. It can't be me who is asserting it, it has to be the Scripture itself that is saying it. (I note that I have to be respectful and careful even when my antagonists are anything but.) This is hard work. It's not paid. And given this audience, it's not rewarding. It's very easy, after a bruising day on LF, to think "Fuck you all. Go die in a hole and burn in Hell!" Close the computer, shake the dust off my sandals and walk away. It's very fatiguing to do such work and pretty much know that it's just going to be ignored and trampled. It's discouraging enough that I lose energy and walk away from it. AKA's goading here has caused me to look back at it, because I do know that what I have said is there, is there. What I don't know is whether or not, after I have slowly and carefully gone through the whole Bible, front to back, and given full quotes and demonstrated that I am neither skipping anything, nor picking and choosing - that the Scripture really does say thus and so - anybody like Stone will actually be persuaded. I'm pretty sure, in my heart of hearts, that his heart is a stone and that he will simply disregard all of it and say "You didn't prove it." I think that's what they all will do here. And so I say to myself "Why put myself through it, then? Why go through all of that EFFORT for nothing? Isn't this what Jesus means when he says 'Do not cast your pearls before swine?'" It's an easy answer, too - to just leave it off as a hopeless, barren, sterile exercise. But then somebody like Stone taunts me with the incompleteness of what I said I would do, causing me to realize that they DID read it, and they DID think about it - that maybe if they see the Scripture on the matter laid end-to-end and not manipulated, they MIGHT actually have a change of heart - not because of me, but because of who speaks in Scripture. So I pick my KJV back up - wearily I have to say - and I start preparing the next passage, secretly hoping in my heart of hearts that Stone or somebody else will go ahead and say something nasty enough that I will have a reason to go pencils down and decide that continuing the work would be pointless and fruitless, and go pencils down to spare myself the pain. I suppose that's funny to you. But you never write any substantial original works here, so you don't really invest any time and effort in anything you write. It's easy for you to be flippant. I can't be flippant in an analysis of the Scripture. I actually have to do the analysis, the writing, the careful editing and correction. You don't care about any of that and would never do anything like that yourself, and you think me a fool for even trying to do that for this audience. Maybe you're right. I often think you are right on that. But I'm not sure enough that you are to not try. There is an example of another "long-winded bloviation", to use Stone's lexicon when addressing me. Vicomte13  posted on  2017-09-09 12:46:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   End Trace Mode for Comment # 18. Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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