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Title: Salt Lake County DA requests FBI assistance in Nurse Alex Wubbels investigation
Source:
Fox 13 Now
URL Source: http://fox13now.com/2017/09/07/salt ... se-alex-wubbels-investigation/
Published: Sep 7, 2017
Author: Mark Green
Post Date: 2017-09-07 18:28:30 by kenh
Keywords: None
Views: 20366
Comments: 105
SALT LAKE CITY — Salt Lake County District Attorney Sim Gill has requested the FBI’s assistance in the investigation into the arrest of a Utah nurse who refused to allow a blood draw from an unconscious patient without following proper procedure. In a statement released Thursday, Gill said his office officially requested the FBI investigate: “any and all individuals involved in the chain of conduct arising from the incident at the University of Utah Hospital on July 26, 2017 for any Civil Rights Violations under the color of authority.” Gill said he requested the FBI’s help due to events beyond a mere criminal investigation.
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#11. To: nolu chan (#10)
(Edited)
And for a blood draw from an accident in Logan, UT (81 miles away). This blood draw incident with the nurse was SLC's entire involvement. Could it get any more boneheaded? I say there's no way Payne or his supervisor survive this. They are ex-cops. And maybe headed for jail. Good. It's bigger than that. Look back over Payne's entire career. Any case where his blood evidence or testimony was the primary factor in a conviction is likely to be re-examined. New sentencing hearings, new trials, etc. If he was willing to violate a nurse's civil rights (and a victim's) to collect blood as the agent of Logan PD and/or UHP, then how can anything he ever did be taken at face value? Every case he testified in, every case where he took a blood sample, they're all suspect now. That may be the bigger nightmare waiting for prosecutors and the SLCPD.
Well, they could leave state laws on the books that should not be there. It may be a mitigating factor for Deputy Dawg, but bring the State into it for liability.
We know that Rotten Cop had to have had at least one mandatory recertification training (every two years by law in Utah) and additional training since the first major USSC case on involuntary blood draws was decided four years ago. It seems to me that a detective has to be responsible for knowing the law and any recent USSC decisions involving specialist certification they hold. It's unlikely that SLCPD sends its people to outside training. They would be doing it in-house, probably with someone on staff who is certified as a trainer. That's pretty common practice. So he should have known. Or maybe Vic is right and he just didn't care because he was playing King Badge. Oh, and...
Maybe she operated an illegal lemonade stand when she was a kid? Book 'em Danno! You need to pick one and stick with it. : ) Burn them, unless they bend the knee, then forgive them. But if they refuse to bend the knee, burn them. It's called "Thinking like Payne". It's called "Measuring Payne by the standard by which he measured." After all, these cops chased a man TO HIS DEATH BY FIRE, and the accident they chased him into BURNT THE VICTIM whose blood Payne was trying to take. Burning people up because they don't obey is what Payne does, so it seems like a fair and balanced punishment. Unless he submits and bawls like a baby and admits his wrongdoing. Then I would be merciful. But since I expect him to be a stubborn, stiff-necked jackass to the end, then I say "Dracarys!"
Come to think of it..."Burn them all!" - Aerys II
The next thing, some angry mob of Mormon schoolchildren will boo the mayorette and the city council will commit hari-kari. Normally, the Mormons are a pretty passive lot, closely resembling well-tended dairy animals. But those Mormons have their titties in a wringer over Nurse Wubbels. LOL. How many people still recall what the phrase 'titty in a wringer' actually means. Damn, that's funny. : ) When I was very small, my mom still had a washer that looked like this one, down to the red warning bar on the wringer.
Payne''a got the Utah pod people all pointing and shrieking. All over for him. He may as well go home, stick his head in the oven and turn on the gas. He's got nothing to look forward to now but unemployment, poverty and the finally the cancer.
We had a gasoline engine powered one on the farm, that had been upgraded to Briggs & Stratton. That about doubled the danger factor. My mom couldn't have started that gas engine and my dad wouldn't have trusted her with it. Hers was all-electric. Probably late Fifties or very early Sixties model. Hers did not have the lid on the basin. I recall the drain hose (no stopper, when you dropped the hose down, it drained the tub). The entire wringer could rotate so you could position it over a side table or over several laundry baskets. That little handle on top of the swivel post was the switch to start/stop the wringer and was totally waterproof, I think it might have been reversible too. The red bar was a warning but also a cutoff, in case something like a kid's fingers started to go through the wringer or if something too big started to clog the wringer. And I think that little horizontal bar on the very top of the wringer could be turned to take the pressure off the rollers so you could pull a clog back out of the wringer. But I was very young and was certainly not allowed to run the wringer. But like any toddler I followed my mom around watching her do chores. The agitator, the wringer, the swivel arm, the drain hose were all interesting to me at that age. I shudder to think of how many diapers she ran through that wringer with four kids over five years, all in cloth diapers. A small mountain of diapers, no doubt. I was youngest so probably all my diapers were hand-me-downs. : ) So what did the gas engine do? Run a little generator or something? Surely it didn't run the agitator or the wringer directly.
I was at a military command that had pictures of the CO and XO inside the door to the communication center. Under that, it read that the CO and XO, by virtue of their positions, had access to all levels of classified information. They flatly refused to remove it or change it. Advancement exams routinely asked a question about a CO/XO having access to classified information by virtue of their position. The correct answer was that nobody, by virtue of their position, has access to any level of classified information. What is the worker bee responsible to know? I know that anyone who believed the sign at the door would blow an exam question, and likely teach a subordinate incorrectly. The employing municipality is required to insure that all its police officers know the law that they are enforcing. Blowing it off, or gun decking it, can be expensive. So can giving bass ackwards instructions. They do not need the FBI to sort out the one cop.
Well, aside from what an investigation may show about prior actions of the cops, a prior nurse or hospital could be involved in prohibited disclosures of information.
In the case of Wubbels, it appears she is a TRUE public servant and at least hesitant to file any civil lawsuit over the event, instead choosing the high road of using her experience to make the world a better place. Perhaps an unintended consequence of that is the potential for her to sue would hang over the city until the legal deadline passes (years, I imagine), during which time the city would be walking on eggshells with the entire medical community. The city might prefer a lawsuit that would be either settled out of court quickly or litigated almost as quickly, after which the matter would be legally and irrevocably settled and it's civic life and business as usual could return.
This involves a lot more than one cop. It involves... “any and all individuals involved in the chain of conduct arising from the incident at the University of Utah Hospital on July 26, 2017 for any Civil Rights Violations under the color of authority.”
But if the trail leads to a conspiracy to deprive the trucker and/or nurse of their civil rights, they couldn't just refer this to the Utah AG. And the Logan PD and Utah highway patrol are mostly beyond their jurisdiction as SLC prosecutors. So the FBI would be needed for a scenario like that. Once again, who wanted this blood? Who was Rotten Cop going to deliver it to? Rotten Cop said his supervisor ordered him to get it and that the request came from the Logan PD. He also said "I've never gone this far before." And he said, "I'm leaving here with those blood vials or a body in tow." Which sounds a lot like he was told that exactly. Rotten Cop does not seem imaginative enough to dream much of this up on his own. He was echoing what his supervisor told him. I'd love to be a fly on the wall when he tries to explain to the FBI how they were just trying to "protect" the trucker by violating his 4th Amendment rights. They'll eat him alive.
What?? He was acting under departmental procedure and the State of Utah law as written. She obstructed and then resisted arrest. This is insane.
So far. I'll mark your "high road" post for reference later.
Didn't one of those decisions concern exigent circumstances? How is that relevant to this case? It isn't. So why are you citing it?
Yes, it did. And thank you for asking. But it downplayed the use of exigent circumstances which was routinely offered as an excuse for warrantless blood draws. I think it was Sotomayor who wrote the majority opinion on that particular point. So that hurts your entire argument.
What for? She's completely within her legal and moral right to sue and use the money she wins for her own personal enjoyment (though it wouldn't surprise me if she instead donates it to a real charity).
So I can cite your stupid "She's taking the high road to make the world a better place" and rub it in your f**king face. "(though it wouldn't surprise me if she instead donates it to a real charity)." I'll mark this one for later reference also. What for? Same reason.
Did law enforcement cite exigent circumstances is this case as their legal reason to draw blood? No. Yet you reference a USSC ruling on exigent circumstances. Why? Other than you're an idiot.
You've got a rotating power source, why go electric? Belt drive from the engine crankshaft to the agitator/wringer gearbox and pump. I was like maybe 4 or 5 years old at the time we had that washing machine in the mid '50s. I remember the side loading electric one we had later much better. It had a door on top to add the detergent, and you could see the side of the tub turning down there. WoooHoo!!! This is a vintage 1920's Maytag washing machine with wringer powered by a 2-stroke engine. In rural America where there was no electricity, this made cleaning clothes a lot easier that it had been before. Another Maytag engine is running on the ground, and a "hit and miss" engine is running next to the washer. Taken August 27, 2011 at the Shelby Iron Works Engine Show in Shelby, Alabama (near Birmingham). So I can cite your stupid "She's taking the high road to make the world a better place" and rub it in your f**king face. hahahaa You are so cute when you're angry. I didn't say she wouldn't sue. I said she was at least hesitant to sue. If she does decide to sue, then it won't invalidate that observation. I said "it wouldn't surprise me" if she donated any damage awards to charity. She may decide instead to throw a big party for all her medical friends featuring a cop pinata that strongly resembles Payne. If so, more power too her.
And therein lies the nobility.
I agree with that assessment, but it may inevitably go beyond Wubbels to a class action. The extent of the violation is not yet clear. The FBI was not called in for help with one misdeed by one cop. He was acting unlawfully in violation of the U.S. Constitution, and U.S. Supreme Court precedent which had struck down, as null and void, all State laws and regulations or procedures repugnant to that precedential opinion. The officer's actions were unconstitutional and resort to null and void law, regulations or procedures offer no help to make his actions lawful. A directive from his lieutenant may mitigate his problems, but amplify the problems of the municipality of Salt Lake City. In addition, the officer's demands appear clearly in violation of HIIPA laws. If this has occured in multiple past cases, SLC could be facing a class action civil suit, appeals of criminal convictions, and more criminal complaints. Recall that TWO officers have been placed on administrative leave. Officer Payne did the arrest. Lieutenant Anonymous apparently called for the arrest. September 2, 2017 Another cop was placed on administrative leave with pay in the handcuffing of a Utah hospital nurse who refused to take blood from an unconscious patient. Salt Lake City’s mayor and police chief apologized Friday to Utah Hospital nurse, Alex Wubbels, who is seen in body cam video screaming “help me” after Detective Jeff Payne handcuffed and dragged her out of the hospital over her refusal to take the blood sample from the patient, a car-crash victim, on July 26. The video has caused outrage since it was released Thursday. Payne was placed on paid leave and prosecutors on Friday announced a a criminal investigation. Police said Friday a second officer was also placed on paid leave. That officer has not been formally identified, but officials have said they also were reviewing the conduct of Payne's boss, a lieutenant who reportedly called for the arrest if Wubbels kept interfering. [snip]
The FBI investigates. The Justice Department prosecutes. Salt Lake City Lieutenant James Tracy, who reportedly called for the arrest was placed on administrative leave, in addition to Salt Lake City Detective Jeff Payne. It was the Salt Lake City mayor who apologized, not Logan. The Logan PD is not on the hook for this, and they are not volunteering to climb on board. Logan called the SLC police to request a blood draw. Logan did not request or demand that any law be disregarded in the taking. That is Logan's story and they are sticking with it. SLC owns this mess. The nurse showed the Salt Lake City detective a copy of the agreement between the police and the hospital that such involuntary blood draws would not happen. Based on the existence of such an agreement, I will bet a cookie that this has happened before, and the agreement was used to avoid legal catastrophe. It appears that Lt. Troglodyte and Deputy Dawg did not get the word, or they are just free thinkers with a badge. By Stephen Hunt and Luke Ramseth The police officer who arrested a University Hospital nurse during a July 26 dispute over getting blood from a patient should immediately have been placed on administrative leave, according to Salt Lake City Mayor Jackie Biskupski. Instead, Salt Lake City police Detective Jeff Payne was allowed to stay on the job until Sept. 1, a day after the nurse’s attorney publicly released police body camera footage of the arrest. Another officer — believed to be Payne’s watch commander, Lt. James Tracy — was placed on leave the same day. [...] Logan Police Chief Gary Jensen told CNN on Wednesday that Payne had called a Logan detective to say that he was having a tough time getting the blood. According to Jensen, the detective told Payne not to worry about it, because Logan could get the blood through other means. “He didn’t tell him you must cease and desist; he simply said, ‘Don’t worry about it, we’ll go another way,’” Jensen said in the CNN interview. “I just don’t believe [Payne’s] actions were in the best interest of the patient, the nurses or law enforcement, quite frankly. He could have just packed up and gone home.” [snip]
Isn't that standard in these types of cases? Or do you read something sinister into it? "The FBI was not called in for help with one misdeed by one cop." It's possible they're simply investigating a federal violation of her civil rights. Or it could be Russian interference.
Did you happen to notice one is a Lieutenant? Read: Salt Lake City liability. They could be investigating Keckistan, but I doubt it.
“He didn’t tell him you must cease and desist; he simply said, ‘Don’t worry about it, we’ll go another way,’” Jensen said in the CNN interview. “I just don’t believe [Payne’s] actions were in the best interest of the patient, the nurses or law enforcement, quite frankly. He could have just packed up and gone home.” Damn, that's cold. : ) They do have incentive to try to keep their hands clean. You have to wonder if they did eventually find a way to get the blood via other means.
I wonder if there is any other legal means to do it. Even if there were a medical draw, I don't see how he legally gets it without a warrant.
So they BOTH thought the law and police department policy were on their side. WTF is going on here? Why are these two being blamed for acting within accepted protocol? FIRE THEM!! TAKE THEIR HOUSES!! THROW THEM IN JAIL!! That's what I'm reading.
Don't get hysterical, misterwhite. We need you performing your otherwise cool, collected unmistakable love for the UBER AMRERICA POLICE STATE! It is what you do best to ensure I have lots of laffs.
Yeah. Sorry. I know you're all counting on me.
Your apologies are accepted. Listen to me, it is important; this is critical stuff here and within the chit-chat channel that I am about reveal to you. If it weren't for you consistently begging for a POLICE STATE w/ UBER CAPABILITIES TO FUCK AMERICA UP EVEN MORE, there would be no point of viewing your posts.
A jackass in power "authorizing" an unconstitutional act does not make it constitutional. It just leads to a criminal act. Deputy Dawg can always say he was just following orders, as that excuse has always worked well in the past. If SLC wants to accept that unconstitutional searches were accepted protocol, then they should get ready to open their wallet very wide.
Then shouldn't that jackass be blamed? And we're not talking about some isolated "act". This is Utah law and police department policy that's been used many times before without a problem. "If SLC wants to accept that unconstitutional searches were accepted protocol, then they should get ready to open their wallet very wide." Why SLC? Why not the State of Utah? It's their statute.
The Utah statute is legal and constitutional. The brain dead misreading of the statute by the SLC lieutenant, the detective, and yourself yields an unconstitutional, criminal result. And, of course, massive liability for Salt Lake City who employs those two blockheads. SLC should consider hiring the nurse to babysit them.
You have to wonder why they went so far over the line for an accident that occurred in Logan, UT, 81 miles outside their jurisdiction. Their only involvement was trying to get blood for Logan (or UHP in my conspiracy theory). I can't really imagine how or why they went so far in this case when it wasn't even their case to begin with.
You still gnawin' on that old bone?
The one that said they can draw blood from an unconscious driver?
Comments (52 - 105) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestMonstrous punitive damages in civil litigation. The municipality is on the hook, big time.
Consider the possibility of looking back to find cases where the nurse did not say NO.
#12. To: Tooconservative (#11)
This blood draw incident with the nurse was SLC's entire involvement. Could it get any more boneheaded?
#13. To: nolu chan, hondo68 (#12)
(Edited)
#14. To: nolu chan, Lemonade Police (#10)
looking back to find cases where the nurse did not say NO.
#15. To: Tooconservative (#8)
You're confusing me. One post, burn them. Next post, forgive them if they apologize. Next post, burn 'em.
#16. To: Tooconservative (#8)
The political heat in SLC must be off the charts
#17. To: Vicomte13 (#16)
(Edited)
#18. To: Tooconservative (#17)
(Edited)
#19. To: Tooconservative (#17)
#20. To: hondo68 (#19)
(Edited)
We had a gasoline engine powered one on the farm, that had been upgraded to Briggs & Stratton. That about doubled the danger factor.
#21. To: Tooconservative (#13)
It seems to me that a detective has to be responsible for knowing the law and any recent USSC decisions involving specialist certification they hold.
#22. To: hondo68 (#14)
Maybe she operated an illegal lemonade stand when she was a kid?
#23. To: nolu chan (#10)
Monstrous punitive damages in civil litigation. The municipality is on the hook, big time. Consider the possibility of looking back to find cases where the nurse did not say NO.
#24. To: nolu chan (#21)
They do not need the FBI to sort out the one cop.
#25. To: nolu chan (#21)
The employing municipality is required to insure that all its police officers know the law that they are enforcing. Blowing it off, or gun decking it, can be expensive. So can giving bass ackwards instructions. They do not need the FBI to sort out the one cop.
#26. To: Tooconservative (#9)
Salt Lake district attorney asks FBI to investigate confrontation between cop and nurse for potential civil-rights violations
#27. To: Pinguinite (#23)
In the case of Wubbels, it appears she is a TRUE public servant and at least hesitant to file any civil lawsuit over the event, instead choosing the high road of using her experience to make the world a better place.
#28. To: Tooconservative (#5)
overruling the two major decisions of the Supreme Court over the last 4 years.
#29. To: misterwhite (#28)
Didn't one of those decisions concern exigent circumstances?
#30. To: misterwhite (#27)
So far. I'll mark your "high road" post for reference later.
#31. To: Pinguinite (#30)
What for?
#32. To: Tooconservative (#29)
But it downplayed the use of exigent circumstances
#33. To: Tooconservative (#20)
(Edited)
Surely it didn't run the agitator or the wringer directly.
Maytag gear jammer...
#34. To: misterwhite (#31)
I'll mark this one for later reference also. What for? Same reason.
#35. To: Pinguinite (#34)
I didn't say she wouldn't sue. I said she was at least hesitant to sue.
#36. To: misterwhite, Toooconservative, Pinguinite (#26)
[Pinguinite #23] In the case of Wubbels, it appears she is a TRUE public servant and at least hesitant to file any civil lawsuit over the event, instead choosing the high road of using her experience to make the world a better place.
[misterwhite #25] He was acting under departmental procedure and the State of Utah law as written. She obstructed and then resisted arrest. This is insane.
2nd Utah police officer put on administrative duty over nurse arrest
Fox News
#37. To: Tooconservative (#25)
But if the trail leads to a conspiracy to deprive the trucker and/or nurse of their civil rights, they couldn't just refer this to the Utah AG. And the Logan PD and Utah highway patrol are mostly beyond their jurisdiction as SLC prosecutors. So the FBI would be needed for a scenario like that.
Logan police didn’t push for blood draw, chief tells CNN after SLC mayor rebukes handling of officer’s leave
St. Louis Tribune
September 7, 2017
#38. To: nolu chan (#36)
Recall that TWO officers have been placed on administrative leave (with pay).
#39. To: misterwhite (#38)
Isn't that standard in these types of cases? Or do you read something sinister into it?
#40. To: nolu chan (#37)
Logan Police Chief Gary Jensen told CNN on Wednesday that Payne had called a Logan detective to say that he was having a tough time getting the blood. According to Jensen, the detective told Payne not to worry about it, because Logan could get the blood through other means.
#41. To: Tooconservative (#40)
You have to wonder if they did eventually find a way to get the blood via other means.
#42. To: nolu chan (#39)
Did you happen to notice one is a Lieutenant? Read: Salt Lake City liability.
#43. To: misterwhite (#42)
FIRE THEM!! TAKE THEIR HOUSES!! THROW THEM IN JAIL!!
#44. To: buckeroo (#43)
We need you performing your otherwise cool, collected unmistakable love for the UBER AMRERICA POLICE STATE!
#45. To: misterwhite (#44)
I know you're all counting on me.
#46. To: misterwhite (#42)
So they BOTH thought the law and police department policy were on their side. WTF is going on here? Why are these two being blamed for acting within accepted protocol?
#47. To: nolu chan (#46)
A jackass in power "authorizing" an unconstitutional act does not make it constitutional.
#48. To: misterwhite (#47)
Why SLC? hy not the State of Utah? It's their statute.
#49. To: nolu chan (#48)
The brain dead misreading of the statute by the SLC lieutenant, the detective, and yourself yields an unconstitutional, criminal result. And, of course, massive liability for Salt Lake City who employs those two blockheads. SLC should consider hiring the nurse to babysit them.
#50. To: Tooconservative (#49)
:You have to wonder why they went so far over the line for an accident that occurred in Logan ..."
#51. To: nolu chan (#48)
The Utah statute is legal and constitutional.
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