Watching The Cops
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Title: Arrested Utah Nurse Had It Coming
Source:
Saily Caller
URL Source: http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/04/arrested-utah-nurse-had-it-coming/
Published: Sep 4, 2017
Author: Gregg RE, Associate editor
Post Date: 2017-09-04 18:49:15 by misterwhite
Keywords: None
Views: 19579
Comments: 123
The near-universal outrage surrounding the arrest of Alex Wubbels, the Salt Lake City nurse who was arrested July 26 for refusing to let police officers draw blood from an unconscious crash victim, empowered Wubbels and her attorney to threaten legal action against the police on CNN’s “New Day” on Monday. At the very least, Wubbels says, she’d like to “re-educate” the police department on proper procedure. Prospective students are advised to steer clear of Wubbels’ courses. Despite reams of inaccurate reporting on the incident, Wubbels was likely legally wrong to obstruct the police officer. The case is a much closer one than it appears. In a widely-seen video documenting her arrest, Wubbels calmly tells a police officer, Jeff Payne, that hospital policy permits the police to draw blood from patients in only three instances: when the patient consents, when the patient is under arrest, or when the police officer has a warrant. After a hospital administrator tells Payne he is making a “mistake” by insisting he has the right to obtain the blood, Payne arrests the nurse, who howls her way outside of the building and proceeds to put the “salt” in Salt Lake City. The hospital’s policy does not have the force of law, even if the local police department agreed to its terms. And crucially, the policy overlooks a well-established exception to the warrant requirement: Police simply do not need a warrant if exigent circumstances justify an urgent search and seizure of evidence. The imminent loss of blood evidence, which would be useful in a drunk-driving case, qualifies as a potentially exigent circumstance. A quick hypothetical. Let’s say you’re watching an unlikely UCLA comeback in the peace and quiet of your own home on the day before Labor Day, when suddenly your neighbor bursts through your front door with a pile of drugs in his hands. You hear police sirens in the background, and your neighbor says, “They’re coming for me!” As your neighbor busies himself by tossing his cocaine into your toilet, the doorbell rings, and the police request to come inside. They’ve seen your neighbor running into your house with what they suspect are drugs. “A-ha,” you say. “I have a policy. No police in my house without my consent, or a warrant, or unless I’m under arrest.” The police would be justified in pushing you aside – even breaking your door down if necessary – to get to your bathroom. As long as a reasonable person would conclude that evidence is in imminent risk of destruction, the police can enter your home for the limited purpose of preventing that destruction. If you actively impeded their access to the bathroom, you would likely find yourself at least temporarily detained. (Wubbels was only detained for approximately twenty minutes). In its reporting of this incident, The New York Times falsely claimed that “the United States Supreme Court ruled that the police do not have the right to draw blood in drunk driving investigations without a warrant.” But the case the Times cites, Missouri v. McNeely, does not stand for that proposition at all. The court explicitly held in McNeely that some drunk-driving cases could permit warrantless blood draws. “When officers in drunk-driving investigations can reasonably obtain a warrant before having a blood sample drawn without significantly undermining the efficacy of the search, the Fourth Amendment mandates that they do so,” the Court wrote. “Circumstances may make obtaining a warrant impractical such that the alcohol’s dissipation will support an exigency, but that is a reason to decide each case on its facts….” There are some more complicated questions at play here. The police are on far shakier ground if they demanded the nurse to draw blood for them, as opposed to the police drawing the blood themselves. But the video suggests that the police wanted to draw blood here. “If she interferes in any way with me getting the blood drawn, she needs to be arrested,” an officer says early on in the video. And The Washington Post has reported that Payne is a trained police phlebotomist, meaning that he is sent to hospitals to collect blood from patients and check for illicit substances. But the coverage of this incident has focused so much on outrage that outlets cannot agree on even this basic factual issue. CNN has reported that the nurse “refused to let police officers draw blood.” The New York Times reported that the nurse was arrested after “refusing to draw patient’s blood.” News outlets cannot even agree on who was going to draw the blood. Officer Payne is now on paid administrative leave. The chief of the Salt Lake City police department has said he is “alarmed” and “sorry.” There is talk of lawsuits and criminal investigation. The mayor of Salt Lake City has called the arrest “completely unacceptable” and apologized. These are moves are necessitated not by the law, but public relations. Wubbels says in the video that “you can’t put me under arrest.” Unfortunately, and only because she is a sympathetic nurse up against a faceless Officer Payne in the YouTube era, she may have been right.
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#45. To: Tooconservative (#43)
(Edited)
Good luck finding a prosecutor who won't be Nifong'd. "And it is like a bad joke to hear you, of all people, try to feign concern over presumption of innocence. We do have some pretty good video here, not just vague or inaccurate initial reporting and questionable eyewitnesses." And what does the video show? Everyone being polite and reasonable -- right up to the point where she refuses to allow him to do the blood draw. He lawfully places her under arrest for obstruction and she hysterically runs away and resists arrest. He takes her outside and places her in the car. Yet you and "99.9% of America" actually believe that he is guilty of a class A misdemeanor assault of medical personnel? If so, then I give up on our legal system. I've already given up on y you. The other 99.9% of the people are simply ignorant of the facts because they've been lied to.
The prosecutors should worry more about the reaction of voters if they fail to prosecute effectively or stage a phony show trial. You have crossed into the realm of outright lying. She did not run away. He lunged at her, pinned her arms behind her back cruelly, and forced her out of her workplace (as responsible head nurse of a burn unit). And it looked like he was trying to break her arm as he manhandled her and spoke to her in a very angry way.
inTeresTing her case is blown Kim Davis was jailed for far less which way The pc winds are blowing love If you ... don't use exclamation points --- you should't be typeing ! Commas - semicolons - question marks are for girlie boys !
He said, "We're done. You're under arrest." She then backed away from him and started screaming. She resisted arrest. "And it looked like he was trying to break her arm" What a drama queen. Emphasis on "queen".
Every once in a while something profound emerges from the soup of your posts.
I can tell you're disappointed that he didn't just pull a gun and shoot that Confederate nurse.
yeah The pc winds shariah jihad nuclear winTer snowflakes blow here relenTlessly love If you ... don't use exclamation points --- you should't be typeing ! Commas - semicolons - question marks are for girlie boys !
Nah. I think he did everything correctly. He was patient and waited ... and waited ... and waited while she dicked around and checked hospital policy, actually took time to print out the policy, showed it to him, called her supervisor and chatted away .. I would have tased her and told her to get the fuck out of the way.
Sooo...Someone driving on the correct side of the road is slammed by an SUV driving on the wrong side of the road while pursued by police. Yeah, sounds like the cops were fishing for additional crimes here that most likely were not there or any reason to investigate. I mean someone who was just in a head on collision is going to be disoriented regardless of the last beverage taken. I had a buddy in HS who was in a similar situation. Car veered into oncoming traffic hit him head on (he survived). Last thing he remembers before losing consciousness was a needle going in his arm to draw blood from the EMT crew. Pretty crappy people are treated as guilty immediately when an accident is not their fault. I'm sure his age had to do something with it too (17).
Points well taken and I agree with you.
You are right. We might find out Logan PD and SLCUPD had faulty information on the nature of the crash and stepped out accordingly. As we peel the onion more this stinks.
Indeed. Beat me to it. :)
The Logan PD responded only after the crash, when their fire department and ambulances were already on their way. The Utah HP had chased the driver and put out the burning victim and they had jurisdiction over the local cops in this accident. This is why it is so puzzling that they obviously put the Logan PD up to getting a blood sample and then Logan PD dragged in Rotten Cop and his supervisor at SLCUPD to do the deed. You know, to "protect" the burned truck driver. What puzzles me is why Logan PD and SLCUPD agreed to be the henchmen for Utah highway patrol. It makes no sense.
Joel Segal mentioned this on one of his documentaries. He said there are probably thousands of city/town ordinances which have not been challenged which are Unconstitutional.
It's a federal organized crime racket (Fusion Centers) founded by the Bush DHS/DOJ, so the Trump DOJ under Jeff Sessions will ignore it, and decline to prosecute the gangbangers in blue under the RICO statutes. Establishment swamp dwelling Republicans and Democrats will stick together and ignore the US Constitution, the Bill or Rights, and the Rule of Law. The whole Fusion Center Cop Klan (FCCK) should be in jail! Did they ever get the sample after the nurse was arrested?
Nope. If that cop was so sure he was right, why didn't he just leave another SLCPD officer at the car with the nurse and go in and start hauling out any staff who objected to his taking a blood sample? It's because he knew he was in the wrong all along. He said they had no probable cause on tape, he said he'd never gone so far before. And he said he was doing it on the orders of his superior.
Nope. Some report(s) said that they got some blood that the hospital had taken earlier for medical tests. AFAIK they did get some blood from someone there, likely in violation of hospital policy. I read a lot of these articles and I haven't come across any reports that they actually got his blood. If they did, the penalties will be even harsher since they were in the wrong to begin with. If you can find any reliable reporting that they did get the blood, post me a link.
Maybe by then they informed him they already had a blood sample.
Maybe they did get blood but for medical purposes associated with the patient's condition and treatment plan.
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/12pdf/11-1425_cb8e.pdf Missouri v McNeely, S Ct 11-1425, 569 US (17 Apr 2013) Syllabus MISSOURI CERTIORARI TO THE SUPREME COURT OF MISSOURI No. 11–1425. Argued January 9, 2013—Decided April 17, 2013 Respondent McNeely was stopped by a Missouri police officer for speed- ing and crossing the centerline. After declining to take a breath test to measure his blood alcohol concentration (BAC), he was arrested and taken to a nearby hospital for blood testing. The officer never attempted to secure a search warrant. McNeely refused to consent to the blood test, but the officer directed a lab technician to take a sam- ple. McNeely’s BAC tested well above the legal limit, and he was charged with driving while intoxicated (DWI). He moved to suppress the blood test result, arguing that taking his blood without a warrant violated his Fourth Amendment rights. The trial court agreed, concluding that the exigency exception to the warrant requirement did not apply because, apart from the fact that McNeely’s blood alcohol was dissipating, no circumstances suggested that the officer faced an emergency. The State Supreme Court affirmed, relying on Schmerber v. California, 384 U. S. 757, in which this Court upheld a DWI suspect’s warrantless blood test where the officer “might reasonably have believed that he was confronted with an emergency, in which the delay necessary to obtain a warrant, under the circumstances, threatened ‘the destruction of evidence,’” id., at 770. This case, the state court found, involved a routine DWI investigation where no factors other than the natural dissipation of blood alcohol suggested that there was an emergency, and, thus, the nonconsensual warrantless test violated McNeely’s right to be free from unrea- sonable searches of his person. Held: The judgment is affirmed. 358 S. W. 3d 65, affirmed. JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR delivered the opinion of the Court with respect to Parts I, II–A, II–B, and IV, concluding that in drunk-driving investigations, the natural dissipation of alcohol in the bloodstream does not constitute an exigency in every case sufficient to justify conducting a blood test without a warrant. Pp. 4–13, 20–23. (a) The principle that a warrantless search of the person is reasonable only if it falls within a recognized exception, see, e.g., United States v. Robinson, 414 U. S. 218, 224, applies here, where the search involved a compelled physical intrusion beneath McNeely's skin and into his veins to obtain a blood sample to use as evidence in a criminal investigation. One recognized exception "applies when '" the exigencies of the situation" make the needs of law enforcement so compelling that [a] warrantless search is objectively reasonable.' " Kentucky v. King, 563 U. S. ___, ___. This Court looks to the totality of circumstances in determining whether an exigency exits. See Brigham City v. Stuart, 547 U. S. 398, 406. Applying this approach in Schmerber, the Court found a warrantless blood test reasonable after considering all of the facts and circumstances of that case and carefully basing its holding on those specific facts, including that alcohol levels decline after drinking stops and that testing was delayed while offocers transported the injured suspect to the hospital and investigated the accident scene. Pp. 4-8. (b) The State nonetheless seeks a per se rule, contending that exigent circumstances necessarily exist when an officer has probable cause to believe that a person has been driving of alcohol because BAC evidence is inherently evanescent. Though a person's blood alcohol level declines until the alcohol is eliminated, it does not follow that the court should depart from careful case-by-case assessment of exigency. When officers in drunk-driving investigations can reasonable obtain a warrant before having a blood sample drawn without significantly undermining the efficacy of the search, the Fourth Amendment mandates that they do so. See McDonald v. United States, 335 U. S. 451, 456. Circumstances may make obtaining a warrant impractical such that the alcohol's disspation will support an exigency, but that is a reason to decide each case on its facts, as in Schmerber, not to accept the "considerable overgeneralization" that a per se rule would reflect, Richards v. Wisconsin, 520 U. S. 385, 393. Blood testing is different in critical respects from other destruction-of-evidence cases. Unlike a situation where, e.g., a suspect has control over easily disposable evidence, see Cupp v. Murphy 412 U.S. 291, 296, BAC evidence naturally dissipates in a gradual and relatively predictable manner. Moreover, because an officer must typically take a DWI suspect to a medical facility and obtain atrained medical professional's assistance before having a blood test conducted, some delay between the time of the arrest or accident and time of the test is inevitable regardless of whether a warrant is obtained. The State's rule also fails to account for advances in the 47 years since Schmerber was decided that allow for the more expeditious processing of warrant applications, particularly in contexts like drunk-driving investigations where the evidence supporting probable cause is simple. The natural dissipation of alcohol in the blood may support an exigency finding in a specific case, as it did in Schmerber, but it does not do so categorically. Pp. 8–13. (c) Because the State sought a per se rule here, it did not argue that there were exigent circumstances in this particular case. The arguments and the record thus do not provide the Court with an adequate framework for a detailed discussion of all the relevant factors that can be taken into account in determining the reasonableness of acting without a warrant. It suffices to say that the metabolization of alcohol in the bloodstream and the ensuing loss of evidence are among the factors that must be considered in deciding whether a warrant is required. Pp. 20–23. JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR, joined by JUSTICE SCALIA, JUSTICE GINSBURG, and JUSTICE KAGAN, concluded in Part III that other arguments advanced by the State and amici in support of a per se rule are unpersuasive. Their concern that a case-by-case approach to exigency will not provide adequate guidance to law enforcement officers may make the desire for a bright-line rule understandable, but the Fourth Amendment will not tolerate adoption of an overly broad categorical approach in this context. A fact-intensive, totality of the circumstances, approach is hardly unique within this Court’s Fourth Amendment jurisprudence. See, e.g., Illinois v. Wardlow, 528 U. S. 119, 123–125. They also contend that the privacy interest implicated here is minimal. But motorists’ diminished expectation of privacy does not diminish their privacy interest in preventing a government agent from piercing their skin. And though a blood test conducted in a medical setting by trained personnel is less intrusive than other bodily invasions, this Court has never retreated from its recognition that any compelled intrusion into the human body implicates significant, constitutionally protected privacy interests. Finally, the government’s general interest in combating drunk driving does not justify departing from the warrant requirement without showing exigent circumstances that make securing a warrant impractical in a particular case. Pp. 15–20.
McNeely seems to be the major direction of the Court but they muddied the waters a bit in their 2016 case, Birchfield v. North Dakota. At least, I find parsing the two to be difficult. NYSlimes: The case, Birchfield v. North Dakota, No. 14-1468, consolidated with two others, arose from laws that made it a crime for motorists suspected of drunken driving to refuse breath or blood tests. The court’s split decision considered three cases: one from Minnesota and two from North Dakota. Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr., in a part of the decision determined by a 7-to-1 vote, said laws effectively requiring blood tests violated the Fourth Amendment’s ban on unreasonable searches. In a part decided by a 6-to-2 vote, Justice Alito wrote that laws requiring breath tests are permissible. “Blood tests are significantly more intrusive, and their reasonableness must be judged in light of the availability of the less invasive alternative of a breath test,” he wrote. When all that is sought is a suspect’s breath, he wrote, “the physical intrusion is almost negligible,” adding that “the effort is no more demanding than blowing up a party balloon.” Moreover, he wrote, “breath tests are capable of revealing only one bit of information, the amount of alcohol in the subject’s breath.” But blood tests, Justice Alito wrote, “are a different matter,” requiring piercing of the skin and extraction of “a part of the subject’s body.” “In addition,” he wrote, “a blood test, unlike a breath test, places in the hands of law enforcement authorities a sample that can be preserved and from which it is possible to extract information beyond” what can be learned from a breath test. In a partial dissent, Justice Sonia Sotomayor, joined by Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, said warrants should be required for both kinds of tests.
Yep. The cops lose here, and lose badly because they used coercive force illegally to try to force medical staff to do what it was illegal for them to do. The cops don't have a pot to piss in, they have angered the people who pay their salaries, and they are going down, as examples to the whole of American policedom.
They still don't have probable cause, a warrant, or even reasonable suspicion of any crime. The fact that it was already drawn, really changes nothing from a legal standpoint, IMO. Why is that difficult to parse? Breath tests, ok without a warrant because trivial. Blood tests: warrant required. In both cases the privacy interest of the individual is held as being of greater importance than any law enforcement objective. What the cop was trying to do in Utah was illegal. The nurse was right. His arresting her was illegal. The supervisor who directed that it happen ordered illegal acts. And ignorance of the law is no excuse, ESPECIALLY not for cops. Whereas cops are given the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the use of force, the opposite rule should be the case when they are enforcing the law. Ignorance of the law should not only not be an excuse FOR THE COPS, but should bring with it the strict liability against them that they apply to the citizenry regarding each and every law. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, and when the cops are ignorance of the law, it should be a separate and specific offense. The cops have to be forced to learn the law and obey it, and when they don't, they need to be very severely punished, to put the fear of God in the rest of them. When cops don't obey the law, they damage the very loyalty of people to the republic. That's a serious thing that warrants very harsh punishment. More cops need to fined, found personally liable, given jail time, broken, expelled from the force. The police forces need to be beaten into submission to the law.
Maybe, but without a warrant that blood was not, and should not be, available for use by law enforcement.
Well, no, I did get that. It was consistent. But the circumstances of the two cases and the results...well, I found parts of it confusing. But IANAL so I shouldn't expect to have a perfect understanding of the Court's finer distinctions in their verdicts. Overall, the 2016 case restated in even stronger terms the results of the 2013 case.
Overall, the 2016 case restated in even stronger terms the results of the 2013 case. This is why I find Mr White's position so perverse. You can't look at those cases and not see that a warrant is required for an involuntary blood draw (and that an "implied consent" law of some state is inferior to and cannot supersede the Supreme Court, because federal constitutional law is supreme over state law to the contrary). But he is so very dogged about this that his determination on the matter interests me. I have to think that he's having fun with us. There's no reasonable read of the law that gets us to where he is.
Yeah. That stupid federalism and states rights is so passe. We need a one-size size-fits-all federal government.
It IS passe. The Union won the Civil War. The Constitution IS the Supreme Law of the Land, and the Supreme Court IS the final authority on what the Constitution means. That's our structure of law, that's our system. Some people fought mighty hard for a different system, but they lost. The federal Constitution supersedes states rights and federalism on matters of personal liberties and protections under the Constitution, and search and seizure, blood taking, etc. - this is all center field of federal Constitutional jurisdiction. EVEN IN a federalist, states rights thematic, the individual rights guaranteed by the Constitution STILL override state laws to the contrary. It's obvious. Taking a violent cop and his ignorant supervisor, who arrested a former Olympian nurse just doing HER job, to try to force an unconstitutional blood draw from an unconscious policeman who happened to also be a part-time truck driver, lying there burnt and unconscious after a police chase herded a car into him - honestly you would have to work to find a worse set of facts, a more unsympathetic case for the police. So it seems to me that you're making this case a basis on which to try to refight the outcome of the Civil War. You've gotta pick better battlefields than this one. If THIS is the battleground on which to challenge federal constitutional protection, you're more likely to get a complete federalization of the police out of this case than you are a carve out from 4th Amendment jurisprudence to allow the cops in Utah to abuse whomever, whenever, wherever, over whatever, because they wanna. This is not a hill to die on. And if you fight this battle, with these ignorant violent dirtbag cops, you're going to die on this hill to no effect. Even AKA Stone, who is no fan of judicial overreach or lawlessness, is not going to be anywhere near these cops with their crazy actions. It's just nuts, what they did. Is that why you're fighting this so hard? States rights? Really? I think you're busting our chops.
He does verge into perversity on the subject of abusive police cases. Is it a psychiatric thing like his daddy spanked him bareass too often but he really loved daddy anyway? Is he just pulling our legs? If so, he's devoted a lot of time and effort to it and never convinced anyone to join his opinions. So it is mysterious. The payoff is so low you just have to wonder.
41-6a-522. Person incapable of refusal. Any person who is dead, unconscious, or in any other condition rendering the person incapable of refusal to submit to any chemical test or tests is considered to not have withdrawn the consent provided for in Subsection 41-6a-5 520(1), and the test or tests may be administered whether the person has been arrested or not. Does this confuse you or is it pretty straightforward?
Protections under the Constitution, my ass. Utah drivers consent to blood draws the moment they pick up their driver's license.
I can't find anything on them getting a blood sample from the lab, probably just a lame rumor. Sorry about that. Gosh. How does that ruling work in states where the drivers have already given their implied consent to blood/breath testing when they apply for a driver's license?
I visited the linked website and read your story from 10pm last night. Then at the bottom of the page, I noticed a newer story, dated today at 3pm. SLC detective who arrested nurse fired from part-time paramedic job A perfect employee record with the ambulance company for almost 35 years didn't save his part-time gig. Just imagine the legal issues after that statement he made about bringing them only transient homeless patients. That finishes him as an EMT, just from potential lawsuits down the road. You have to wonder how many arrests he's made over the years as a cop and how those are going to be re-examined in light of what he did to the nurse. I'm sure local defense attorneys will be preparing briefs for new trials, resentencing hearings, etc. He'll be portrayed successfully as a dirty cop.
I dunno. Isn't that every state in the Union? I assume they have a multistate compact to deal with drivers from out-of-state and all the legal issues that would arise as a result. But I don't have any info on that right now. The question arises somewhat in this case because the truck driver is from Idaho, not Utah. So how does Utah enforce its implied consent laws on residents of other states with the rules for driver interlock and such? Or seizing their license but giving them a 29-day temporary license, etc.? I don't recall reading about such cases but they must come up with some regularity.
The truck driver is a resident of Idaho. When did Idahoans ever consent to the laws of Utah by getting a license in Idaho? I suppose some pack of asshole judges will tell us it's the Commerce Clause again, the last refuge of scoundrels in black robes.
Because he is a dirty cop.
It's utterly irrelevant. The Supreme Court has spoken on the matter of blood draws, and because we are a federal union with federal supremacy, the Utah state and local laws are utterly obliterated, erased from having any force, by the superior federal law. Yes, that's the Utah statute. So what? No analysis is needed. The Supreme Court says no warrantless blood draws without consent anywhere in the United States. Utah can't make laws opposed to that. Neither can Puerto Rico or American Samoa, for that matter. Federal Constitutional rights trump state laws and regulations to the contrary, every time. Federal supremacy.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestGood luck finding a jury for this one.
#46. To: misterwhite (#45)
Good luck finding a prosecutor who won't be Nifong'd.
And what does the video show? Everyone being polite and reasonable -- right up to the point where she refuses to allow him to do the blood draw. He lawfully places her under arrest for obstruction and she hysterically runs away and resists arrest. He takes her outside and places her in the car.
#47. To: misterwhite (#45)
she refuses to allow him to do the blood draw
boris
#48. To: Tooconservative (#46)
She did not run away. He lunged at her
#49. To: BorisY (#47)
Kim Davis was jailed for far less
#50. To: misterwhite (#48)
#51. To: misterwhite (#49)
boris
#52. To: Tooconservative (#50)
I can tell you're disappointed that he didn't just pull a gun and shoot that Confederate nurse.
#53. To: Tooconservative (#8)
According to the Logan Police Department, officers responded to 6200 South and Highway 89/91 in Wellsville after the deadly crash. The crash occurred after Utah Highway Patrol received numerous 911 calls reporting an erratic driver, and troopers attempted a traffic stop on a black Chevrolet Silverado pickup truck. The driver of the pickup truck fled from troopers, and during the ensuing pursuit the driver veered into the oncoming lanes and struck a semi-truck head on.
#54. To: Deckard (#9)
So - the driver of the semi-truck was the guy who was seriously burned in a reckless police chase and was guilty of nothing except for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. My theory still stands - the cops wanted to find something to charge the semi-truck driver with so that their actions that caused the crashed would be justified. If indeed they had taken the man's blood, they would have used the fact that he was most likely on medication administered by the hospital as proof that he was DWI.
#55. To: Tooconservative (#13)
It's the role of Utah highway patrol that has not come to light yet. But I think it will. This was not cooked up by Logan PD or SLCUPD, they were merely accomplices and agents of the UHP. IMO.
#56. To: randge (#21)
Implied consent and probably cause are two different animals. The former does not come into operation until the latter is determined to exist.
#57. To: redleghunter (#53)
According to the Logan Police Department, officers responded to 6200 South and Highway 89/91 in Wellsville after the deadly crash. The crash occurred after Utah Highway Patrol received numerous 911 calls reporting an erratic driver, and troopers attempted a traffic stop on a black Chevrolet Silverado pickup truck.
#58. To: Tooconservative (#22)
Exactly. Just some cruft that has not been repealed. Sometimes this is just sloppiness by legislators, other times I think they leave these unconstitutional laws on the books just to bamboozle victims of unconstitutional searches by telling this "this is the law".
#59. To: Tooconservative, RICO organized criminal conspiracy, Fusion Center Cop Klan, FCCK, *The Two Parties ARE the Same* (#10)
a conspiracy by UHP, Logan PD, and SLCUPD to knowingly deprive a crime victim of his constitutional rights
#60. To: Tooconservative (#25)
#61. To: redleghunter (#60)
Did they ever get the sample after the nurse was arrested?
#62. To: Tooconservative, redleghunter (#61)
Did they ever get the sample after the nurse was arrested?
#63. To: hondo68 (#62)
Some report(s) said that they got some blood that the hospital had taken earlier for medical tests.
#64. To: Tooconservative (#61)
and go in and start hauling out any staff who objected to his taking a blood sample?
#65. To: hondo68 (#62)
#66. To: misterwhite, Vicomte13, Tooconservative (#20)
(A U.S. Supreme Court ruling would add a little credibility to your words.)
SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES
v.
MCNEELY
#67. To: nolu chan (#66)
WASHINGTON — The police must obtain warrants to test the blood of motorists arrested on suspicion of drunken driving, the Supreme Court ruled on Thursday, but no warrants are needed to conduct a breath test.
#68. To: nolu chan (#66)
#69. To: redleghunter (#65)
but for medical purposes associated with the patient's condition and treatment plan.
#70. To: Tooconservative (#67)
#71. To: redleghunter (#65)
Maybe they did get blood but for medical purposes associated with the patient's condition and treatment plan.
#72. To: Vicomte13 (#70)
(Edited)
Why is that difficult to parse? Breath tests, ok without a warrant because trivial. Blood tests: warrant required.
#73. To: Tooconservative (#72)
Well, no, I did get that. It was consistent. But the circumstances of the two cases and the results...well, I found parts of it confusing. But IANAL so I shouldn't expect to have a perfect understanding of the Court's finer distinctions in their verdicts.
#74. To: Vicomte13 (#73)
and that an "implied consent" law of some state is inferior to and cannot supersede the Supreme Court
#75. To: misterwhite (#74)
That stupid federalism and states rights is so passe. We need a one-size size-fits-all federal government.
#76. To: Vicomte13 (#73)
(Edited)
But he is so very dogged about this that his determination on the matter interests me.
#77. To: Vicomte13 (#73)
There's no reasonable read of the law that gets us to where he is.
#78. To: Vicomte13 (#75)
and protections under the Constitution,
#79. To: Tooconservative (#63)
Gold Cross Ambulance places detective on administrative leave after controversial nurse arrest
#80. To: Tooconservative (#67)
#81. To: hondo68, Vicomte13, misterwhite, nolu chan, A K A Stone, kenh, redleghunter (#79)
(Edited)
Gold Cross Ambulance places detective on administrative leave after controversial nurse arrest
“Gold Cross Ambulance in Salt Lake City, Utah has terminated Jeff Payne as a part-time Paramedic effective immediately. Although Jeff was not working for Gold Cross Ambulance at the time of the incident, we take his inappropriate remarks regarding patient transports seriously,” the emergency medical transport company said in a statement released Tuesday. “We acknowledge those concerned individuals who have contacted us regarding this incident and affirm our commitment to serving all members of the community with kindness and respect. We will continue to maintain our values of outstanding patient focused care, safety, and the complete trust of the communities we serve.”
#82. To: misterwhite (#80)
Gosh. How does that ruling work in states where the drivers have already given their implied consent to blood/breath testing when they apply for a driver's license?
#83. To: misterwhite (#78)
Protections under the Constitution, my ass. Utah drivers consent to blood draws the moment they pick up their driver's license.
#84. To: Tooconservative (#81)
He'll be portrayed successfully as a dirty cop.
#85. To: misterwhite (#77)
(Edited)
Does this confuse you or is it pretty straightforward?
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