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U.S. Constitution
See other U.S. Constitution Articles

Title: War against Christmas: Getting Serious
Source: VDARE
URL Source: http://blog.vdare.com/archives/2009 ... nst-christmas-getting-serious/
Published: Dec 13, 2009
Author: Patrick Cleburne
Post Date: 2009-12-13 19:00:16 by Moderate Mammal
Keywords: None
Views: 3211
Comments: 16

Although it is still early in the Season, my impression is that this is going to be a bumper Christmas for War against/on Christmas action. The traffic generated by Google News alerts for both phrases seems heavy.

And both sides seem to be getting more serious. Maybe the passage of time has made them realize how important the matter really is.

Bob Livingston’s Personal Liberty Digest has a fine essay The War on Christmas by Chip Wood (Dec 11 2009). Noting

the battle against public display of anything religious claimed another victim, this time in Washington, D.C. The new visitor’s center at the United States Capitol contains a replica of the Speaker’s rostrum in the House chamber. It’s an exact copy, except for this change: The actual chair has the words “In God We Trust” engraved across the top. The phrase is missing from the copy

Wood goes on to develop a root-and branch argument about the process by which Christmas has been driven from the public square:

Permit me to rant for a bit about one of the biggest lies the anti-religious zealots have used against us. It is that “the Constitution requires the separation of church and state.”

Baloney. The Constitution requires no such thing.

Denouncing the Supreme Court’s power grab, he writes:

for most of my lifetime, layer upon layer of additional government has been sanctioned, and even initiated, by the black-robed justices of the U.S. Supreme Court—men and women who regularly and repeatedly ignore the very first sentence of the document they have sworn to uphold.

Wood argues:

let’s turn to the First Amendment (the one used to justify arguments for “the separation of church and state”) and see what it actually says. Here is how it begins: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…” That seems pretty clear, doesn’t it? “Congress shall make no law,” either promoting a religion or prohibiting one. According to the Constitution, what are the states allowed to do, when it comes to religion (or just about anything else)? The answer is, pretty much whatever they want. Could a state require that the Ten Commandments be posted in every courthouse? Sure it could. Could a city or county government install a crèche on its lawn every Christmas? Absolutely.

The implication here of course is that properly-constituted and motivated legislatures could be the ultimate resort of a citizenry outraged at the repression of the appropriate observance of the traditions it venerates.

This of course would infuriate Marilyn Henry, writing a column in The Jerusalem Post: Metro Views: A war on Christmas?: Dec 12 2009

Complaining

My baby-boomer generation was bombarded with Christmas music…I can sing these songs as I would an early Beatles tune or an advertising jingle for a popular product - recalled without thinking.

she writes a celebration of the eradication of Christmas acknowledgement in American public schools, recently upheld by anti-Christmas U.S. Third District of Appeals in rejecting a suit by the valiant Thomas More Law Center. (See the Center’s comment: A Christmas Insult to Christians —Third Circuit Approves School’s Ban on “Silent Night” November 25, 2009 ).

Henry – despite the Irish sound of her name the wife of a New Jersey Rabbi - happily notes the Court paused to gloat that it was, in effect, legislating a change:

The federal court acknowledged that “those of us who were educated in the public schools remember holiday celebrations replete with Christmas carols, and possibly even Hannuka songs, to which no objection had been raised.”

More importantly, she names her view of the stakes:

the Thomas More Law Center referred to the federal court decision in the New Jersey case as a “Christmas insult to Christians.” Had the decision gone the other way, we would be writing about a holiday insult to American Jews.

We would? Is repressing Christmas necessary to show appropriate politeness to American Jews?

Is that really a wise way to frame this debate?

In Israel, apparently, repressing Christmas is indeed what respect for Jews requires:

Jewish lobby wages war on Christmas trees Ari Galhar Ynetnews.com 12.08.09

But is America a province of Israel?

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#1. To: All (#0)

www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3815175,00.html

Jewish lobby wages war on Christmas trees

Lobby for Jewish values passes out fliers against hotels, restaurants putting up Christmas trees, other Christian symbols ahead of civil New Year, say businesses who do so risk losing kosher certification

Ari Galhar Published: 12.08.09, 07:51 / Israel Jewish Scene

A new front for religious battles: Hotels and restaurants. The "Lobby for Jewish values" this week began operating against restaurants and hotels that plan to put up Christmas trees and other Christian symbols ahead of Christmas and the civil New Year.

According to the lobby's Chairman, Ofer Cohen, they have received backing by the rabbis, "and we are even considering publishing the names of the businesses that put up Christian symbols ahead of the Christian holiday and call for a boycott against them."

Fliers and ads distributed among the public read, "The people of Israel have given their soul over the years in order to maintain the values of the Torah of Israel and the Jewish identity.

"You should also continue to follow this path of the Jewish people's tradition and not give in to the clownish atmosphere of the end of the civil year. And certainly not help those businesses that sell or put up the foolish symbols of Christianity."

The Jerusalem Rabbinate also works each year to ensure restaurants and hotels receiving kosher certification from the Jerusalem Religious Council do not put up Christian symbols.

According to a senior official in the kashrut department, this is done each year consensually, but that businesses which do not meet this requirement may find their kashrut certificate revoked.

It should be noted that most of the hotels in Jerusalem and a significant part of the restaurants in the capital receive permanent kosher certification from the city's religious council.

Moderate Mammal  posted on  2009-12-13   19:03:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Moderate Mammal (#1) (Edited)

What does the Jewish Santa Claus say?

Ho! Ho! Ho! Anybody wanna buy some toys?

Thor  posted on  2009-12-13   19:32:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Moderate Mammal (#0)

Yet you have no issue with Obamas Seasons greeting cards or his not celebrating a White house Christmas.

Telling indeed.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Toss: ADL,CAIR and the Vatican into the pit they belong in.

WhiteSands  posted on  2009-12-13   19:48:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: WhiteSands (#3)

BINGO!

Esse Quam Videri.

Mad Dog  posted on  2009-12-13   19:49:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: WhiteSands (#3)

Jews don't celebrate Christmas. A lot of people don't celebrate Christmas. Did you know that only approx 33% of the worlds population consider themselves Christian? 22% consider themselves Muslim. The number of people who convert to Islam is growing at a much faster rate than those converting to Christianity. About 76% of Americans consider themselves of a Christian faith of one denominations or another. The nuber who chose basic Christianity is much less than that, approx 2/3 less.

So, if Obama chooses not to celebrate Christmas the way your average Christian does, why would that bother you? Do we not have the freedom to choose our own religion in the US? Furthermore, why would you be suprised? You already know what type of bigoted "Christian" church he attended for many years. Did you actually believe he was a real Christian and therefore would hold the same Christian values that real Christians hold?

This leads me to another question. Do you think the only presidents we should ever elect should be those of a Christian faith? What about Mormons? Are they eligible? Jews? Buhddists? Hindus? Pagans? Wiccans? Muslims? In a world were we are to be free and be able to freely practice our religions of choice, should we now ban some religions and not others? And who gets to determine which ones are allowed and which ones are not? In China, the Government is officially athiest. It took some time to get them to accept some religions, but others are still banned. Should we do the same in America? Or should Christianity be considered the official religion of the US? So which is it? We would be hypocrits in the eyes of Jesus if we preach such freedoms and pass laws to limit them at the same time. We would surely be damned to hell for such practices.

It is extremely difficult for the wealthy to enter the kingdom of heaven. Those who consider themselves superior are more at odds with God than those who are aware of their sins. Those who sincerely repent—even if they are the hated toll-collectors, prostitutes, or ignorant common people—are more likely to receive God’s forgiveness than are the learned and self-righteous.
Happy Birthday, Jesus! Merry Christmas everyone!

mel  posted on  2009-12-13   20:16:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: mel (#5)

Do you think the only presidents we should ever elect should be those of a Christian faith? What about Mormons? Are they eligible? Jews? Buhddists? Hindus? Pagans? Wiccans? Muslims?

Don't forget Communists,Dopers,Rapists,Child Molesters,Satan Worshipers and why bother limiting the POTUS job to those born in the USA or those who exclude those with dual or multiple citizenship..

In fact why have any standards at all..

that "liberal" enough for ya?

Joe Snuffy  posted on  2009-12-13   20:28:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: WhiteSands (#3)

How do you know what his view on that issue is? You know what they say about those who assume.

Way to side track from the issue of Jewish lobbies waging war on Christmas. Why is it so uncomfortable for you to talk about Jewish lobbies? Why are you defensive?

Thor  posted on  2009-12-13   20:30:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Joe Snuffy (#6)

Don't forget Communists,Dopers,Rapists,Child Molesters,Satan Worshipers and why bother limiting the POTUS job to those born in the USA or those who exclude those with dual or multiple citizenship..

In fact why have any standards at all..

that "liberal" enough for ya?

Good points Joe, I think we've done just fine as a nation that was built upon Christian principles, not perfect, but just fine.

I do believe we gone to far with our tolerance to turn back..with each election it just gets worse! jmo!

Murron  posted on  2009-12-13   20:44:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Joe Snuffy (#6)

Your post is way off topic and uncalled for. Either you can address the questions I asked or you can not. Your post shows that you can not. Thanks.

It is extremely difficult for the wealthy to enter the kingdom of heaven. Those who consider themselves superior are more at odds with God than those who are aware of their sins. Those who sincerely repent—even if they are the hated toll-collectors, prostitutes, or ignorant common people—are more likely to receive God’s forgiveness than are the learned and self-righteous.
Happy Birthday, Jesus! Merry Christmas everyone!

mel  posted on  2009-12-13   21:04:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Murron (#8)

Sorry Murron - I didn't see any points in his post nor did he address anything in my post.

It is extremely difficult for the wealthy to enter the kingdom of heaven. Those who consider themselves superior are more at odds with God than those who are aware of their sins. Those who sincerely repent—even if they are the hated toll-collectors, prostitutes, or ignorant common people—are more likely to receive God’s forgiveness than are the learned and self-righteous.
Happy Birthday, Jesus! Merry Christmas everyone!

mel  posted on  2009-12-13   21:05:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: mel (#10)

Sorry Murron - I didn't see any points in his post nor did he address anything in my post.

I understand where both of you are coming from, but I side with JOE! We have to draw a line in the sand somewhere, or we will throw this nation back into the stoneage....

All we have to do is look at how other nations are ruled by Muslims, how they treat their women, and ask ourselves, is this what we want for our nation?

I say NO, HELL NO! I am not that tolerant. This nation was founded on Christian principles, not religion, but Christian principles, but our tolerance of barbaric riligions will be our downfall! jmho!

Murron  posted on  2009-12-13   21:09:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Murron (#11)

We have to draw a line in the sand somewhere, or we will throw this nation back into the stoneage....

I know what you're saying, and I do agree. I was hoping to find somebody who would actually address the questions I asked.

I'm not asking about criminals - child molesters, etc. Those issues raised by him have nothing to do with the questions I asked. Certainly, such criminals are on the other side of the line.

It is extremely difficult for the wealthy to enter the kingdom of heaven. Those who consider themselves superior are more at odds with God than those who are aware of their sins. Those who sincerely repent—even if they are the hated toll-collectors, prostitutes, or ignorant common people—are more likely to receive God’s forgiveness than are the learned and self-righteous.
Happy Birthday, Jesus! Merry Christmas everyone!

mel  posted on  2009-12-13   22:19:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Moderate Mammal (#1)

I suppose it was inevitable you'd turn into a jew hater, you kooks always do.

Don't you have a floor to mop?


Chasing Nuts Around the Interweb for Years

Biff Tannen  posted on  2009-12-13   22:23:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Biff Tannen (#13) (Edited)

He isn't for Pual because of Paul's Immigration Positions.

Paul is a Libertarian.

Libertarian Party Platform is free trade and unrestricted migration.

http://www.lp.org/platform

-----------------------------------------------------------
Toss: ADL,CAIR and the Vatican into the pit they belong in.

WhiteSands  posted on  2009-12-13   22:33:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Thor (#7)

How do you know what his view on that issue is? You know what they say about those who assume.

Way to side track from the issue of Jewish lobbies waging war on Christmas. Why is it so uncomfortable for you to talk about Jewish lobbies? Why are you defensive?

The dingbat tries to defect the issues. As in this case, I was not hard enough on Obama. The irony is I did post in this thread:

libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5247

asking why Obushma celebrates Hanukkah www.dallasnews.com/shared...ate.Edition1.4c2c17e.html but not Christmas. I see neither it nor doggie boy had a answer in that thread.

And the reason both are in the bozo.

Moderate Mammal  posted on  2009-12-14   2:52:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Biff Tannen (#13)

I suppose it was inevitable you'd turn into a jew hater, you kooks always do.

Inevitable that numbnuts will play the race card to evade the issue. I got news for you princess, you've got the wrong guy if you think I gonna cower in fear.

Now why don't you run along and go beat up Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer or something.

Moderate Mammal  posted on  2009-12-14   2:55:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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