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Title: Utah nurse screams 'help me' as she's cuffed by cop for refusing to draw blood on unconscious patient, video shows
Source: Fox News
URL Source: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/09/0 ... cious-patient-video-shows.html
Published: Sep 2, 2017
Author: Fox News
Post Date: 2017-09-02 00:34:39 by Pinguinite
Keywords: None
Views: 6968
Comments: 75

Nurse arrested for refusing to draw unconscious man's blood

A Utah nurse screamed “help me” after a cop handcuffed her for refusing to draw blood on an unconscious patient July 26, police body camera footage showed.

The video showed University of Utah Hospital nurse Alex Wubbels, an Alpine skier who participated in the 1998 and 2002 Winter Olympic games, calmly explaining to Salt Lake Detective Jeff Payne that she could not draw blood from a patient who had been injured in a car accident, according to The Salt Lake Tribune.

Wubbels told Payne the patient was required to give consent for a blood sample or be under arrest. Otherwise, she said police needed a warrant. Payne threatened to imprison Wubbels if he was not given the blood sample, according to the video.

“I either go away with blood in vials or body in tow,” Payne is shown saying.

Wubbels, who was on the phone with her supervisor, explained the situation to the supervisor, who agreed with the nurse and reportedly told the cop, “sir, you’re making a huge mistake because you’re threatening a nurse.”

Disturbing video shows Utah nurse dragged away by cop for refusing to draw unconscious patient’s blood https://t.co/y6ZjfDHeyp pic.twitter.com/k3SrUsSjqh — Raw Story (@RawStory) September 1, 2017

Upon hearing that, Payne announced Wubbels was under arrest and physically moved her outside the hospital while she screamed.

Wubbels yelled, “Help! Stop! I did nothing wrong!” while being handcuffed.

Payne was attempting to get a blood sample from a patient who was burned after being involved in a head-on crash with a pick-up truck driver that was fleeing police, the Washington Post reported. The driver died in the incident.

Wubbels was not charged and police have started an internal investigation. Payne initially remained on duty although he was suspended from blood-draw duties. Later on Friday Utah police announced that he had been put on paid administrative leave.

Police Chief Mike Brown said in a statement that his department will comply with the investigation into Payne. Salt Lake County's Unified Police Department will run the criminal probe into Payne's actions. Brown and the mayor of Salt Lake City have apologized for the incident and changed their policies to mirror hospital protocols.

Christina Judd, a spokesperson for the Salt Lake City Police, said the department was alarmed by what they witnessed in the video.

Judd said the department was working to investigate what went wrong and is seeking to repair the “unfortunate rift” it has caused.

Wubbels said she had been told of other hospital employees being harassed by officers and this footage proved their claim. She has not pressed charges yet but would consider it if police did not change their ways.

“I can’t sit on this video and not attempt to speak out both to re-educate and inform,” Wubbels told The Salt Lake Tribune. Police departments “need to be having conversations about what is appropriate intervention.”

The hospital supported Wubbels actions and said it would consider pressing charges.

"University of Utah Health supports Nurse Wubbles and her decision to focus first and foremost on the care and well-being of her patient,” said Suzanne Winchester, the hospital's media relations manager. “She followed procedures and protocols in this matter and was acting in her patient’s best interest. We have worked with our law enforcement partners on this issue to ensure an appropriate process for moving forward.”


Poster Comment:

I was unclear if the cop was expecting the nurse or staff to make the blood draw and they were refusing, or if the cop wanted to draw it himself and the staff was preventing him from doing so.

This article clearly states the cop was expecting the staff to do it, in which case the nurse was arrested for refusing to do something the cop wanted.

It seems the nurse, so far, is being nice in not suing the cop & department. That's characteristic of a true public servant.

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#25. To: Pinguinite (#20)

By your way of thinking, cops could legally, without any question whatsover, set up such check points every 1/2 mile on a 100 mile interstate, resulting in the death of all drivers due to loss of blood / shock perhaps by no more than about the 80 mile marker.

Because they can, you assume they would?

Congress can set your taxes at 100%. Gosh, if they did that you'd have no money. Let's worry ourselves to death about that, too.

misterwhite  posted on  2017-09-02   12:54:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Pinguinite (#24)

The Fox news article, to which the AP contributed, does explicitly say the hospital staff was to draw.

Round and round we go. The Salt Lake Tribune -- a local paper with local reporters -- did explicitly say that the nurse refused to let the officer take blood from unconscious victim. The officer went to the hospital get blood, was trained to draw blood, and was legally allowed to do so.

If the hospital had a policy of not drawing blood for any reason, then he, by law, was allowed to do so himself.

misterwhite  posted on  2017-09-02   13:02:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: misterwhite (#25)

Because they can, you assume they would?

Well, since you already established that taking blood from any driver at any time can be done for any reason or no reason whatsoever, then if they were to do as I theorized, then no one has any standing to question it.

And you'd say it's okay because of the implied consent law.

I get it. The law does not serve the people. The people serve the law. That's why people exist. And if a choice needs to be made of an innocent person dying or the law broken, then the innocent person needs to die. That's how you think. I understand that now.

Pinguinite  posted on  2017-09-02   13:04:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: misterwhite (#26)

If the hospital had a policy of not drawing blood for any reason, then he, by law, was allowed to do so himself.

In which case, he did obtain the blood draw after arresting the obstructing nurse?

Or did that not happen?

Pinguinite  posted on  2017-09-02   13:05:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Pinguinite (#24)

And the cop is on admin leave, which was a decision made by me.

He's on admin leave for bullshit, politically correct reasons because his linquini-spined supervisors decided to kiss the hospital's ass rather than educate the hospital staff on state law.

misterwhite  posted on  2017-09-02   13:09:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: misterwhite (#26) (Edited)

If the hospital had a policy of not drawing blood for any reason, then he, by law, was allowed to do so himself.

But instead, the pig decides to arrest her for not submitting to being his slave against policies she's just read to the pig.

She needs to take all his stuff, keep what she likes, sell what she can and burn the remainder on the front lawn of his new tenement shack.

Hank Rearden  posted on  2017-09-02   13:10:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: misterwhite (#29)

politically correct reasons

You are sounding like a government salesman pitching for fascism.

buckeroo  posted on  2017-09-02   13:13:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Pinguinite (#27)

then no one has any standing to question it.

They can question it, complain about it, challenge it -- at the appropriate time to the appropriate people.

The nurse and her supervisor chose to question it at the wrong time with the wrong person. Furthermore, they went beyond questioning it and actually interfered based on the mistaken belief that they were in the right.

misterwhite  posted on  2017-09-02   13:19:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: buckeroo (#31)

You are sounding like a government salesman pitching for fascism.

No. That's what you hear.

misterwhite  posted on  2017-09-02   13:20:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Pinguinite (#28)

In which case, he did obtain the blood draw after arresting the obstructing nurse?

I assume so. The article doesn't say. Is that important? Does it change any of the facts I cited? Does it change the law?

misterwhite  posted on  2017-09-02   13:24:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Hank Rearden (#30)

But instead, the pig decides to arrest her for not submitting to being his slave against policies she's just read to the pig.

She was not allowing him to do his lawful duty. His supervisor authorized him to arrest her if she interfered. That's what he did.

misterwhite  posted on  2017-09-02   13:27:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: misterwhite (#29)

He's on admin leave for bullshit, politically correct reasons because his linquini-spined supervisors decided to kiss the hospital's ass rather than educate the hospital staff on state law.

If so, it may be because of the absolute enormity of backlash they are receiving as this video has gone viral with near universal condemnation from the general public.

Imagine that.... a police department actually caving to the will of the people instead of, if you are right, the law. Such a travesty.

Remember what I said about people being much more motivated by emotions rather than cold logic? Well, that video is an absolute killer. And of course it doesn't help the cop at all that the nurse was shown being very logical.

Pinguinite  posted on  2017-09-02   13:28:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: misterwhite (#32)

They can question it, complain about it, challenge it -- at the appropriate time to the appropriate people.

Sure they can. After the fact, of course. In this case, after a lot of people end up dead from blood loss. That's the appropriate time to question things "properly".

Pinguinite  posted on  2017-09-02   13:31:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: misterwhite (#34)

I assume so. The article doesn't say. Is that important?

As far as the question of who was to do the blood draw, it sure is.

If he didn't do the draw himself, then it shows that he likely arrested her for not doing as he ordered, and not for obstructing his efforts to draw it himself.

So yes, very important.

Pinguinite  posted on  2017-09-02   13:33:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Pinguinite (#36)

that the nurse was shown being very logical.

So that's the key? Logic?

So if I can logically explain the cop why I was breaking the law by doing 90 in a 45, he'll let me go? And if he doesn't, I can take my case to the Internet to put pressure on the entire department?

misterwhite  posted on  2017-09-02   13:37:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: misterwhite (#39)

So if I can logically explain the cop why I was breaking the law by doing 90 in a 45, he'll let me go? And if he doesn't, I can take my case to the Internet to put pressure on the entire department?

You can try, but I don't think you'll be nearly as successful as this nurse was.

Pinguinite  posted on  2017-09-02   13:39:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: Pinguinite (#38)

then it shows that he likely arrested her for not doing as he ordered, and not for obstructing his efforts to draw it himself.

Suppose after the first nurse was taken away in handcuffs a second nurse came forward and volunteered to do the blood draw.

So to answer your question, I would say that the blood was eventually drawn by another nurse. How can you possibly conclude anything by that?

misterwhite  posted on  2017-09-02   13:44:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: Pinguinite (#40)

You can try, but I don't think you'll be nearly as successful as this nurse was.

So basically you're saying that the law is whatever an individual says it is based on how sympathetic they can appear to the general public.

That "Rule of Law" stuff is so yesterday.

misterwhite  posted on  2017-09-02   13:48:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Hank Rearden (#15)

She needs to take this psycho asshole's house, car, pension, TV - everything.

Oh noes. Not de big screen tee-bee!

Tooconservative  posted on  2017-09-02   14:11:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: misterwhite (#41)

So to answer your question, I would say that the blood was eventually drawn by another nurse. How can you possibly conclude anything by that?

In case you've forgotten, the question is simply whether the cop wanted to do the draw himself, or was ordering the hospital staff to do it, because that hinges on the cops reason for arresting the nurse.

If the nurse was obstructing as you claim, then after doing the arrest, he would be free to then conduct the blood draw himself.

But if he did not obtain any blood draw that day, then it implies that the nurse was ordered by the cop to do the draw but did not do so, and that would likely mean the nurse was not arrested for obstructing the cop from doing it himself, but merely not doing something he ordered, and that makes a big legal difference in the justification, or lack thereof, for the arrest.

Pinguinite  posted on  2017-09-02   14:14:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: Pinguinite, misterwhite, nolu chan (#24)

The SLTrib article does not explicitly say who was to draw the blood.

It does not matter at all who was going to draw the blood. As a matter of policy, the hospital would not allow non-staffers to draw blood.

As to the larger legal question, the hospital was obligated to protect the rights of a vulnerable (unconscious) person from the moment they admitted the patient. They have custodial legal obligations by law in every state.

If the cop was some kind of police phlebotomist or something, he should have drawn the blood before the patient came under the protective status of a hospital, i.e. prior to admission.

Tooconservative  posted on  2017-09-02   14:14:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: misterwhite (#42)

So basically you're saying that the law is whatever an individual says it is based on how sympathetic they can appear to the general public.

That "Rule of Law" stuff is so yesterday.

As I predicted, your defense of the cop in this case has proven extremely entertaining. Thanks for playing.

Pinguinite  posted on  2017-09-02   14:15:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: Tooconservative (#45)

As to the larger legal question, the hospital was obligated to protect the rights of a vulnerable (unconscious) person from the moment they admitted the patient. They have custodial legal obligations by law in every state.

A very reasonable and believable position. If true, and the cop did want to do it himself but was prevented by the staff, then it would be the cop in violation of law, not withstanding any laws related to implied consent by drivers.

If the cop was some kind of police phlebotomist or something, he should have drawn the blood before the patient came under the protective status of a hospital, i.e. prior to admission.

True, but a moot point as to the question of the reason for his arresting her.

I think it most likely that the cop was demanding the staff do the draw and give him the samples, and was not asking for access to do it himself. I mean, heck, it's a hospital. When you are in a hospital and want something like a blood draw done, one would typically ask a nurse to do it. Prior to the dispute arising, it would be most reasonable for the cop wanting a blood sample to ask the hospital staff to provide one and that he had every expectation of it being provided to him. Even if he was trained, it's not his primary field so that is what a reasonable person would do. Plus there is the matter of sterility. A cop walking into an ER has all his gear all over him, and was presumably at the scene of the accident, so it would not be prudent for staff to allow that under normal circumstances anyway.

It is most likely then that the cop wanted the staff to draw the blood and did not attempt to do it himself, at least prior to the arrest.

Pinguinite  posted on  2017-09-02   14:28:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: Pinguinite, misterwhite, nolu chan (#44)

In case you've forgotten, the question is simply whether the cop wanted to do the draw himself, or was ordering the hospital staff to do it, because that hinges on the cops reason for arresting the nurse.

I think the bigger question is why the cop was demanding a blood draw from a victim who was grievously injured as a result of a high-speed police chase.

I think he was hoping to find something in the guy's blood, like a low alcohol level or some prescription or illicit drug that might be claimed to have impaired his driving ability.

I think the trooper was collecting blood as a lawfare method, to try to get anything on that driver so they could try to defend against a lawsuit after the cops chased this guy into a head-on crash with him.

The circumstances and length of the chase could make a big difference if the victim sues the cops. This legal status of high-speed chases is full of controversy and a lot of lawsuits in various states, CA in particular, some others in FL. Various cities and states have passed laws to try to regulate when and how a high-speed police chase is allowable due to the substantial danger that the perp will crash disastrously into a bystander or another vehicle, exactly as happened here.

We need to know a lot more about that police chase and hear why this cop was so determined to collect that blood. And who ordered him to do it and why.

Tooconservative  posted on  2017-09-02   14:28:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Tooconservative (#48)

I think the trooper was collecting blood as a lawfare method, to try to get anything on that driver so they could try to defend against a lawsuit after the cops chased this guy into a head-on crash with him.

Deckard and I both speculated on this exact point previously. It's not out of the question the cop could have intended to taint the blood samples on his way to the lab, if he was outright crooked. Normally such speculation would be groundless, but given the arrest response was so extreme, such mal intent would set the stage for the harsh response.

The circumstances and length of the chase could make a big difference if the victim sues the cops. This legal status of high-speed chases is full of controversy and a lot of lawsuits in various states, CA in particular, some others in FL. Various cities and states have passed laws to try to regulate when and how a high-speed police chase is allowable due to the substantial danger that the perp will crash disastrously into a bystander or another vehicle, exactly as happened here.

I think I read once the rule is to not engage in pursuit if the danger the pursuit poses to the public exceeded the danger to the public of not immediately capturing the suspect.

We need to know a lot more about that police chase and hear why this cop was so determined to collect that blood. And who ordered him to do it and why.

Such questions are moot and pointless in conducting the investigation.

According to misterwhite.

Pinguinite  posted on  2017-09-02   14:40:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: Pinguinite (#49)

According to misterwhite.

He's the biggest a-hole on the Internet.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2017-09-02   14:47:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: misterwhite (#6)

She was wrong. The cop was right.

Nope, on hospital property, with the patient in hospital custody. The cop has no right to do any blood drawing there without a warrant.

Nor does the cop have the power to command a civilian to do something unconstitutional.

The cop and the police department will lose this.

You are not in charge, and nobody will ever put you in charge, because the way you think is German, not American.

Vicomte13  posted on  2017-09-02   15:18:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: misterwhite (#42)

the law is whatever an individual says it is based on how sympathetic they can appear to the general public

I am very sorry to disappoint you but police are not lawmakers, if they want to be, they should run for state legislature or Congress.

Either way, do you realize that you are doing a horrible PR for your buddies? If they knew you would be in a big doo doo.

A Pole  posted on  2017-09-02   17:12:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: Pinguinite (#44)

In case you've forgotten, the question is simply whether the cop wanted to do the draw himself, or was ordering the hospital staff to do it, because that hinges on the cops reason for arresting the nurse.

He could have asked her to do it. She said no. Then he said he'll do it. Then she obstructed.

"If the nurse was obstructing as you claim, then after doing the arrest, he would be free to then conduct the blood draw himself."

He was always free to do the blood draw himself. My guess is he did. Or another nurse volunteered.

misterwhite  posted on  2017-09-02   17:34:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: Vicomte13 (#51)

You are not in charge, and nobody will ever put you in charge, because the way you think is German, not American.

I think you just insulted the Germans.

Pinguinite  posted on  2017-09-02   17:37:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: misterwhite (#53)

I have a right to draw your blood with a rusty nail a straw and an empty pickle jar,

A K A Stone  posted on  2017-09-02   17:38:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: misterwhite (#53)

He could have asked her to do it. She said no. Then he said he'll do it. Then she obstructed.

Thanks for the on-the-scene, play by play call, though your summary doesn't match the video very well.

He was always free to do the blood draw himself. My guess is he did. Or another nurse volunteered.

From other reading, it appears that after the arrest that it was discovered that the staff had already done a blood draw in the course of treatment, and that blood may or may not have sufficed for what they wanted.

So it seems things get a bit convoluted. Since prosecutors are now investigating the cops actions for criminality, I'm guessing they should be looking at that, including the reason the cops wanted the blood in the first place. (Which is a question independent of whether they had a legal authority to demand it).

Though to be candid, prosecutors might only be investigating to help pacify the public outrage. I won't hold my breath for any finding of wrong doing, much less criminal action. But we'll see.

Pinguinite  posted on  2017-09-02   17:45:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: Tooconservative (#45) (Edited)

he should have drawn the blood before the patient came under the protective status of a hospital, i.e. prior to admission.

Detective Jeff Payne is a police phlebotomist.

I suppose they could have called him to the accident scene to do the blood draw but my guess is that they wanted to get the victim to the hospital as quickly as possible, figuring they could could do the blood draw there.

"As a matter of policy, the hospital would not allow non-staffers to draw blood."

The hospital had a policy not to do blood draws unless certain conditions were met. Where did you read that police phlebotomists were not allowed to do so?

"the hospital was obligated to protect the rights of a vulnerable (unconscious) person"

Under the State of Utah law, drivers give up their right to refuse blood draws the moment they're issued a license. You may disagree with the law, but it is what it is until the citizens of Utah change it.

misterwhite  posted on  2017-09-02   17:53:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: Tooconservative (#48)

I think the bigger question is why the cop was demanding a blood draw from a victim who was grievously injured as a result of a high-speed police chase.

Apparently it's departmental policy. A good one, I think.

In this case, the surviving driver could sue the dead man's estate by claiming the other driver was weaving and acting erratically -- as though he had been drinking or on drugs -- and that behavior caused him to lose control and crash into him.

Without a blood test, we only have his word.

misterwhite  posted on  2017-09-02   18:01:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: Fred Mertz (#50)

He's the biggest a-hole on the Internet.

Nuh-uh. You are.

misterwhite  posted on  2017-09-02   18:02:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: Pinguinite (#54)

I think you just insulted the Germans.

Vas ist los?

misterwhite  posted on  2017-09-02   18:04:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: A K A Stone (#55)

I have a right to draw your blood with a rusty nail a straw and an empty pickle jar,

As always, a true contributor to the discussion.

misterwhite  posted on  2017-09-02   18:06:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: Pinguinite (#56)

Thanks for the on-the-scene, play by play call, though your summary doesn't match the video very well.

You're the one citing hypotheticals. So I thought I'd add mine. By the way, the video, as always, leaves out the footage of how everything got to that point.

"including the reason the cops wanted the blood in the first place."

You're like a dog with a bone on that issue. You've lost the argument as to whether or not the police could do the blood draw, so now you're trying to salvage something by hoping to dispute their reason for doing so.

Sad.

misterwhite  posted on  2017-09-02   18:15:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: Vicomte13 (#51)

The cop has no right to do any blood drawing there without a warrant.

Not in the State of Utah. No warrant required. This is what -- the 10th time I've cited that? I even gave you a link to the actual law. What's wrong with you?

misterwhite  posted on  2017-09-02   18:20:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: misterwhite, Vampire PD (#62)

the video, as always, leaves out the footage of how everything got to that point.

The officer arrived at the hospital with a lust for blood.... then the video.

And after twisting together a crown of thorns, they put it on His head

Hondo68  posted on  2017-09-02   18:24:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: hondo68 (#64)

The officer arrived at the hospital with a lust for blood

He wanted blood, but I don't think he was lusting for it.

misterwhite  posted on  2017-09-02   18:41:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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