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Did the Israelites Really Cross the Red Sea? Stunning Evidence of the Location of Red Sea Crossing! Are we experiencing a Triumph of Orthodoxy? Judge Napolitano with Konstantin Malofeev (Moscow, Russia) "Trump Administration Cancels Most USAID Programs, Folds Others into State Department" Introducing Manus: The General AI Agent "Chinese Spies in Our Military? 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The board also requested an injunction to prohibit the governor from refusing to comply. "While our preference was to avoid this step, we believe it is a necessary measure to keep Puerto Rico on track with its commitments to reduce spending and build stable foundations for its economic future," said Natalie Jaresko, the board's executive director Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 4. #1. To: XDMAR (#0) The folks who lent money took risks. They made bad bets. They should lose their investments. Vicomte13  posted on  2017-08-29   15:05:03 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #2. To: Vicomte13, XDMAR (#1) The folks who lent money took risks. They made bad bets. They should lose their investments. Loans were given with the knowledge that Bankruptcy law at Chapter 9 does not permit Puerto Rico, or any of its municipalities, to be a debtor under Chapter 9. Absent a change to the law, Puerto Rico should not be able to obtain any bankruptcy protection. Bankruptcy Chapter 9, 109(c), Who May Be A Debtor, http://law.justia.com/codes/us/2015/title-11/chapter-1/sec.-109/ (c) An entity may be a debtor under chapter 9 of this title if and only if such entity— (1) is a municipality; (2) is specifically authorized, in its capacity as a municipality or by name, to be a debtor under such chapter by State law, or by a governmental officer or organization empowered by State law to authorize such entity to be a debtor under such chapter; (3) is insolvent; (4) desires to effect a plan to adjust such debts; and (5)(A) has obtained the agreement of creditors holding at least a majority in amount of the claims of each class that such entity intends to impair under a plan in a case under such chapter; (B) has negotiated in good faith with creditors and has failed to obtain the agreement of creditors holding at least a majority in amount of the claims of each class that such entity intends to impair under a plan in a case under such chapter; (C) is unable to negotiate with creditors because such negotiation is impracticable; or (D) reasonably believes that a creditor may attempt to obtain a transfer that is avoidable under section 547 of this title. nolu chan  posted on  2017-08-30   0:00:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #3. To: nolu chan (#2) I'm not suggesting bankruptcy protection. Simple default. Vicomte13  posted on  2017-08-30   8:02:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #4. To: Vicomte13 (#3) I'm not suggesting bankruptcy protection. Simple default. Without bankruptcy protection, would the debtors have to dissolve assets until creditors are paid or assets are all gone? The Puerto Rican government might find itself broke and homeless. nolu chan  posted on  2017-08-30   15:15:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   Replies to Comment # 4. #5. To: nolu chan (#4) Without bankruptcy protection, would the debtors have to dissolve assets until creditors are paid or assets are all gone? The Puerto Rican government might find itself broke and homeless. When dealing with a sovereign it becomes much trickier, however, for a variety of reasons, the biggest of which is practical. Creditors cannot resort to self-help. Even in private transactions if the landlord barges into the apartment and takes things to pay a debt, or a repo man breaks into a house to take collateral, they are treated as criminals. Money may be owed, but to extract it requires the courts and the sheriffs. And therein lies the rub. Sheriffs are paid by governors and mayors, not judges. Judges may issue orders that the police are "bound" to respect, but judges are nowhere in the chain of command of the actual officers. That chain of command ends at chief executives. So, the chief executive might be held in contempt of court - but probably enjoys executive privilege against being jailed for it...and once again, to actually take possession of a man and jail him would require police officers - of the executive branch - to obey people who are not in their chain of command, over against the people in their chain of command who pay their paycheck. Now, a despised chief executive probably can be arrested fairly easily, because his successor will rubber stamp the decision of the police. But a strong populist, with the people and political class at his back, probably cannot be. And THEN what? Well, then you have people with a theoretical legal "right" to "repossess" thus and so, but who have no practical ability to do so because there is nobody to execute the order of repossession, and if they try self-help they will be shot by the police as burglars. Individual creditors who lend to sovereigns do not have the same power over their debtor as they do when they lend to other individuals, because the sovereign will enforce the debts against individuals, but the sovereign ultimately CHOOSES to enforce the debt against itself, and if it chooses not to, there is no real recourse. Obviously this would be a crisis situation, but as we have seen with recent Presidents, once they command people to do things that are objectively illegal, it is nevertheless virtually impossible to stop them or hold them accountable, because the Executive branch obeys the Chief Executive, and law enforcement is all part of the Executive Branch. So, if the Governor decides to protect the standard of living of Puerto Ricans, by making fewer cuts than required (thereby extending repayment time to the lenders), it's an open question as to who obeys whom. We know from the experience of sovereign debt default all over the world that there are always more people who want high yields who will take the risk. They always have, everywhere. Most get paid. Some get burned. Vicomte13  posted on  2017-08-31 08:23:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   End Trace Mode for Comment # 4. Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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